secrets and templates and multiclassing OH MY!

[big teej]

greetings playgrounders

I'm playing a character that is a cleric/knight multi class
with the bone template

would you all mind looking over my charactersheet and making sure I've done this correctly? (I think I have but I'm not completely sure)

for the recored I am NOT LOOKING FOR BUILD ADVICE
please do not give it


with the exception of feat choice, because I'm struggling to pick another 2.

thanks in advance.

here's the sheet
Character name: skullsy *name pending Player name:
Class and level: Cleric 2/ Knight 1 Race: Bone template Human
Alignment: Lawful Good Deity: Pending domain list

Size: Medium Age: 23/94 (died at 23) Gender: male Height: 6’0 Weight:??? + 125 lbs
Eyes: none Hair: none Skin: none
Theme song:

Hit points: 31
AC: 10 + dex bonus + armour + shield bonus + natural armour bonus + etc
BAB: + 2
Strength: 16 [+3]
Dexterity: 14 [+2]
Constitution: ----
Intelligence: 13 [+1]
Wisdom: 15 [+2]
Charisma: 14 [+2]

Saving throws
Will: + 7
Fortitude: + 3
Reflex: + 2

Speed: 30ft
Vision: 60 ft
Climb: 5 ft
Listen: 60ft

Racial features
Extra feat at creation
Extra skill points (+4 at creation + 1 per level)
Undead traits/immunities:
Darkvision 60 ft
Cold immunity
DR5 bludgeoning
Natural armour + 2
2 claw attacks (1d4)
Weapon finesse for free with 1 weapon (claws)

Class features
Cleric:
All simple weapons
All armour types and shields (but not tower shields)
Domain 1 power
Domain 2 power
good Aura
Divine Spellcasting
Spontaneous casting – Cure
Turn Undead – may attempt to turn undead 3+cha bonus times per day, 5 or more ranks in knowledge (religion) add a +2 bonus
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Turn_or_Rebuke_Undead

knight:
Knight’s Code
Knight’s Challenge
Fighting Challenge +1

Feats taken
Quick draw
1 for human – open to suggestions
1 for level 3 – open to suggestions

Skills 38
6 ranks in concentration
2 ranks in diplomacy
5 ranks in heal
6 ranks in knowledge (history)
5 ranks in intimidate
6 ranks in knowledge religion
4 ranks in knowledge arcane
4 ranks in ride

Cleric class skills
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).

Knight class skills
Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Ride, Swim.

Weapons in use
Battle axe – 10 gp
Warhammer – 12 gp
Heavy pick – 8 gp

Equipment/gear:
Battle plate – 2500 gp
Extreme steel shield - 75 gp

Items and possessions 95
Silver holy symbol – 25 gp
Back pack – 2 gp
Signet ring – 5 gp
3 gp worth of caltrops
2 10 ft lengths of chain – 60 gp

Languages: common, celestial

XP: 3,000 of 5,400

Money: 2,700 gp to spend (character is assumed to start but naked and has this much to fix it)

Heroic achievements:

To do list
Don’t get found out by the party
Die heroically (again)
Make sure my tomb can’t be raided (again)

[Last Laugh]

Can you please tell me where the Bone template is from?
Feat Suggestions: Smiting Spell from PHB II lets you channel spells into melee attacks.
Devotion feats are very nice, Travel Devotion is good on every character with Turning. (Does it interfere with any knight class features? It's a Swift Action) Chaos Devotion boosts either Attack or AC by 1d6, Law Devotion boosts AC or Attack (and you get to pick which) by 3, it scales better than chaos devotion as well (+3 vs 1d6, +5 vs 1d8, +7 vs 1d10)

If you don't plan to Multi class into ToB classes but want a nice stance pick up Martial Study (1 devoted spirit maneuver) later on take Martial Stance(Thicket of Blades) this doesn't kick in until Ilvl 5, character level 10.

[big teej]

Can you please tell me where the Bone template is from?
Feat Suggestions: Smiting Spell from PHB II lets you channel spells into melee attacks.
Devotion feats are very nice, Travel Devotion is good on every character with Turning. (Does it interfere with any knight class features? It's a Swift Action) Chaos Devotion boosts either Attack or AC by 1d6, Law Devotion boosts AC or Attack (and you get to pick which) by 3, it scales better than chaos devotion as well (+3 vs 1d6, +5 vs 1d8, +7 vs 1d10)

If you don't plan to Multi class into ToB classes but want a nice stance pick up Martial Study (1 devoted spirit maneuver) later on take Martial Stance(Thicket of Blades) this doesn't kick in until Ilvl 5, character level 10.

Bone template is in The Book of Vile Darkness, near the back, I don't have the book handy at the moment.

I don't have access to the PHBII at the moment, is that smiting feat on the SRD?
(and since the group doesn't possess it in hardcopy, its banned)
....
-puts on ignorance hat-
"what's a devotion feat?" :smalltongue:
we don't have tome of battle either
also, the only 'conflict' I see with a knight feature is that issuing a 'knight's challenge' is a swift action. so I don't think I could do both on one turn.

[Greenish]

"what's a devotion feat?" :smalltongue:Devotion feats are from Comp. Champion. They (mostly) provide a single use per day of an useful ability, with more uses gained from using TU attempts to "fuel" the feat. Clerics can swap their domains for corresponding Devotion feats.

Travel Devotion, for example, allows you to move your speed as a swift action for one minute, and can be activated once a day, and you can gain extra uses by burning two TU attempts for each.

[big teej]

Devotion feats are from Comp. Champion. They (mostly) provide a single use per day of an useful ability, with more uses gained from using TU attempts to "fuel" the feat. Clerics can swap their domains for corresponding Devotion feats.

Travel Devotion, for example, allows you to move your speed as a swift action for one minute, and can be activated once a day, and you can gain extra uses by burning two TU attempts for each.

ah, I see, I like that, (doesn't fit the concept, but I like it)

question: does it PERMANENTLY take the place of a domain? or merely a domain slot of a given level or something?

[Seatbelt]

No you burn the domain and get the feat.

[Urpriest]

No you burn the domain and get the feat.

Just to clarify, teej, you can also just take them as normal feats. Swapping a domain for one is just another way to get one (and often more efficient if the domain isn't doing that much).

[big teej]

Just to clarify, teej, you can also just take them as normal feats. Swapping a domain for one is just another way to get one (and often more efficient if the domain isn't doing that much).

ah, thats far more helpful. give how indecisive I can get over picking domains and feats, this is a good thing.



on a related note...
can anyone think of a diety that has LG worshippers that would grant spells to an undead abaomination? (the undead is of course lawful good)

I'm kinda drawing a blank

[Kelb_Panthera]

Question: Is your LG character more L or more G? If you're more Lawful, you might consider Wee Jas.

[Eldan]

Libris Mortis has undead gods of good.

[big teej]

Question: Is your LG character more L or more G? If you're more Lawful, you might consider Wee Jas.

uhm... neither? I'm lawful AND good.

I don't think either takes precedence (or at least, I've never rollplayed it that way)


wee jas is definitly an option I'm considering, I just couldn't remember if she allows for lawful worshipers



Libris Mortis has undead gods of good.

don't have it I'm afraid,

[Kelb_Panthera]

uhm... neither? I'm lawful AND good.

I don't think either takes precedence (or at least, I've never rollplayed it that way)


wee jas is definitly an option I'm considering, I just couldn't remember if she allows for lawful worshipers




don't have it I'm afraid,

Yeah, Wee Jas is LN so she should be a solid choice. As for more L or more N it's entirely possible to be squarely in the middle. However, many characters with an extreme alignment (LG,CG,LE,CE) tend to lean at least a little toward one aspect or the other of their alignment. At least in my experience that's the case.

[big teej]

Yeah, Wee Jas is LN so she should be a solid choice. As for more L or more N it's entirely possible to be squarely in the middle. However, many characters with an extreme alignment (LG,CG,LE,CE) tend to lean at least a little toward one aspect or the other of their alignment. At least in my experience that's the case.

and its possible I do, its simply that I've never noticed myself having that tendency,

but wee jas accepts extreme alignment worshippers?

[Kelb_Panthera]

One step rule. LG is one step away from LN on the moral scale, and matches on the ethics scale. If you were NG you'd be out of luck, but you're LG so you're good to go. In fact, I think Wee Jas even sponsors the occasional paladin.

[big teej]

One step rule. LG is one step away from LN on the moral scale, and matches on the ethics scale. If you were NG you'd be out of luck, but you're LG so you're good to go. In fact, I think Wee Jas even sponsors the occasional paladin.

-victory fist pump-

score!

I'm gonna go pick 2 domains now, then I'll post up the edited charactersheet

edit: while I'm working on the charactersheet, can we go back to the feat question? I have 2 more feats to take, and I'm stumped

my resources to take feats from are
the SRD
the DMG
the BOVD
the BOED
races of stone
masters of the wild
cityscape
the A&EG
and......
dieties and demigods
that should be everything.


2nd edit:
I'm totally taking the death domain, death touch is too cool not to try.

so that leaves me with Law and Magic,

I'm leaning towards magic but I haven't made a decision

thoughts?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Magic. Hands down. You get access to spell completion and spell trigger items as though you were a wizard of half your cleric level. Wands and staves are great, and you never know when a scroll of a low-level spell can be useful.

[big teej]

Magic. Hands down. You get access to spell completion and spell trigger items as though you were a wizard of half your cleric level. Wands and staves are great, and you never know when a scroll of a low-level spell can be useful.

-raises hand and puts on ignorance cap again-

are 'spell completion and spell trigger items' things like wands and staves? or what?


I don't typically play casters.:smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Did someone say Theme Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAgSWR8u-v8)?

Hmm. If you're playing 3.5 then I believe that you just have Weapon Finesse rather than Weapon Finesse for your claws only.

There's a way to get your shield, and I believe your armor, to count as your holy symbol for turning and for divine focus purposes. Helps against pesky sneak thieves to have more than one anyway. So I'd recommend a pair of backup regular old wooden holy symbols.

Make sure your DM isn't going to make you be effected by your own turn undead, btw. Be an unpleasant surprise if you ended up dusting yourself. Though that's only really a going concern if you have to boost your turning.

[elonin]

-raises hand and puts on ignorance cap again-

are 'spell completion and spell trigger items' things like wands and staves? or what?


I don't typically play casters.:smalltongue:

Any items that you need to be a wizard/sorc to use. That includes scrolls, wands, staves, and rune staves (from magic item compendium)

[KillianHawkeye]

I just want to point out that if you are playing 3.5, Weapon Finesse now applies to all finesseable weapons (rather than a single chosen weapon like it did in 3.0).

EDIT: Not that that really matters considering your Strength is higher than your Dexterity. :smallsigh:

Nevermind.

[big teej]

Did someone say Theme Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAgSWR8u-v8)?

Hmm. If you're playing 3.5 then I believe that you just have Weapon Finesse rather than Weapon Finesse for your claws only.

oh i know, it says any weapon for free, so I picked my claws

figured it'd be a good last ditch tactic

dm: okay, so they have taken all your weapons and gear,
-ignoring the armour question for now-
me: huh..... okay, well then, I attack the first guard to come in the room
dm: with what?
me: MY CLAWS!!!! :smallfurious::smallbiggrin:
party: "wut?:smallconfused:"
me: ....oopsies:smalleek:

also,
in regards to the theme song
SCORE
=D

but I'm afraid it doesn't convey the fact its being played by a skeleton that well... and besides, the fact I'm a skeleton is a SECRET
very secret
very top


which brings me to my next problem
suggestions on keeping the fact I'm dead a secret


edit: you all ninja'd me... so lemme respond to a few things... and probably get ninja'd again


There's a way to get your shield, and I believe your armor, to count as your holy symbol for turning and for divine focus purposes. Helps against pesky sneak thieves to have more than one anyway. So I'd recommend a pair of backup regular old wooden holy symbols.

Make sure your DM isn't going to make you be effected by your own turn undead, btw. Be an unpleasant surprise if you ended up dusting yourself.

you edit ninja'd me!!!

1st HOW!?!?!?! how do you make your armour/shield to be holy symbols? what book is this in
I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!

2nd.. that is a very good point, and I will be sure to bring that up (not that I plan to bank on turn undead very often anyways)




Any items that you need to be a wizard/sorc to use. That includes scrolls, wands, staves, and rune staves (from magic item compendium)

ah. thankyoumuch
don't have the MIC though



I just want to point out that if you are playing 3.5, Weapon Finesse now applies to all finesseable weapons (rather than a single chosen weapon like it did in 3.0).

EDIT: Not that that really matters considering your Strength is higher than your Dexterity. :smallsigh:

Nevermind.

I totally forgot about that.....
still would only be using it for my claws though :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

oh i know, it says any weapon for free, so I picked my claws

figured it'd be a good last ditch tactic

dm: okay, so they have taken all your weapons and gear,
-ignoring the armour question for now-
me: huh..... okay, well then, I attack the first guard to come in the room
dm: with what?
me: MY CLAWS!!!! :smallfurious::smallbiggrin:
party: "wut?:smallconfused:"
me: ....oopsies:smalleek: Aside from the bit where you'd have gauntlets on which could very well be spiked or bladed and thus weapons themselves, or your armor can get spikes on it which would make it also double as a weapon. I think that armor can get armor spikes, anyway.

But, yeah, due to the way the 3.5 rules updated and BOVD being released during the transition from 3e to 3.5, you have Weapon Finesse in general. Congratulations. If at all possible, retrain or psychic reformation that feat into something useful.

which brings me to my next problem
suggestions on keeping the fact I'm dead a secret

Well, you spontaneously channel cure spells, which is a problem for healing yourself, so you'll need a wand of inflict light wounds for healing yourself. And if you're the party healer, then you could basically play it off as having 2 wands, one for yourself, one for them, and if you're not made their gimp, it'll be out of party loot that the party's source of healing comes, so you're only paying 1+1/X the cost of 2 first level healing wands, where X = number of members of the party.

Of course, you could also masquerade as a warforged and so you'd need a wand of "repair," instead of cure anyway.

As for feats that I'd recommend, do you want to be mounted or not? And if you do go mounted, is there an issue with your mount being undead or just for you to be discovered undead?

Trying to remember the source of the count your armor/shield as a holy symbol thing. I don't believe it's a +X equivalent bonus, just a flat cost...

Edit! Found it. Sanctified is +50 GP and applies to armor or shields and is found in Dungeonscape. Page 30 for the price and page 34 for the description.

And this from here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866830/The_Cleric_Handbook?pg=35):
Holy Symbols
Why settle for a wooden one when you can have enough bling to make Pelor ask for sunglasses?


Reliquary Holy Symbol , MIC:
Gain up to 3 turn attempts.

Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol , Eberron CS:
+1 to turning level

Greater Holy Symbol, Defenders of the Faith:
Empower Turning

True Holy Symbol, Planar Handbook
+2 sacred to turn check


Deity-specific Holy Symbols, Complete Champ
Ruby Skull of Wee Jas etc: +1 CL to certain spells, may have other bonuses depending on deity.


Devoted Spirit Amulet, ToB
According to the description, "Some double as holy symbols"


Sanctify Armor, Shield and Sanctify Armor , Dungeonscape:
Turns your shield or armor into a divine focus.


Holy Symbol of Ravenkind, Expedition to Castle Ravencroft:

Legacy item; bonuses to turning etc.

Eberron Shard Holy symbol, Magic of Eberron:

rebuke beings of a chosen plane



Khyber Shard Holy Symbol, Magic of Eberron:

gives you elemental turning (pick one)

And another cleric handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0) for further reading and thought.

[Flickerdart]

There's a feat called Tomb Tainted Soul which makes a regular character heal from negative energy. Ask your DM if you can take the opposite of that feat (so that positive heals you and negative huts you, just like regular people).

[Coidzor]

There's a feat called Tomb Tainted Soul which makes a regular character heal from negative energy. Ask your DM if you can take the opposite of that feat (so that positive heals you and negative huts you, just like regular people).

That reminds me, other than being healed by positive energy... what's the difference between Deathless and Undead as types?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Spell completion items require that you have the spell on your list, and that you have a caster level high enough to cast the spell. If your caster level is too low, you can make a caster level check to activate the item anyway, but the spell must still be on your list. If you fail the caster level check there's a chance of a magical mishap. Spell trigger items only require the spell be on your list. Use of either spell completion or spell trigger items requires an action equal to the action required to cast the spell the item contains. Scrolls are spell completion. Wands and staves are spell trigger. Most wondrous items are either use activated, continuous, or command word. Command word requires a standard action, while use activated and continuous items need only be worn used normally to gain their benefit.

[Escheton]

Is your deity Kelemvor yet?
If not, check him out, his domains are also quite nice, as is his dogma.
Would fit your char perfectly I figure.

[big teej]

Is your deity Kelemvor yet?
If not, check him out, his domains are also quite nice, as is his dogma.
Would fit your char perfectly I figure.

what book is he in?
the name isn't ringing a bell at all.

[Kelb_Panthera]

what book is he in?
the name isn't ringing a bell at all.

Kelemvor is the god of the dead in Forgotten Realms' Faerunean pantheon. Basics are in FRCS, and details are in Faiths and pantheons.

[big teej]

so I went with the magic domain because I liked it alot better than LAW

this leaves my charactersheet complete except for one thing

I still have 2 feats to pick (from the previous mentiond sources)


any ideas/options/opinions?

for the record, our group agrees that NO armour is worth a feat, so don't worry about me being 'non proficient' in my battle plate

I'm doing alot of homework today, so I won't have time to look at all the feats in my sourcebooks till later, and I figured you all would have a better idea of a useful feats for a knight/cleric

[Keld Denar]

A hat of disguise (DMG) would help you mask the physical manifestations of being a smelly dead guy. It's cheap too.

[big teej]

A hat of disguise (DMG) would help you mask the physical manifestations of being a smelly dead guy. It's cheap too.

I'll look into that
however, I was going to use the fact I'm "sealed in my armour" to explain any unusual stench...

[Flickerdart]

Skeletons wouldn't really smell, though.

[big teej]

Skeletons wouldn't really smell, though.

thats what I thought.... but I figured I could be mistaken :smalltongue:

I'm more worried about people noticing things like....
"hey, arn't you cold in that armour?"
nah I"m good

"shouldn't that lightning bold have killed you?"
uhm... made my reflex save?


"shouldn't you be tired from sleeping in that armour?"

uhmm.... improved endurance -real life bluff check-

and so on

also
I STILL NEED HELP PICKING TWO MORE FEATS

[Flickerdart]

If you plan to continue with Knight until at least 3rd level, Combat Reflexes is going to be your friend because of all the AoOs you'll get, since you shut down 5ft steps.

[big teej]

If you plan to continue with Knight until at least 3rd level, Combat Reflexes is going to be your friend because of all the AoOs you'll get, since you shut down 5ft steps.

okay, that leaves one feat

(and yes I plan on alternating levels of cleric and knight, so next level will be in knight, and 5th level will be in whatever I deem more needful, most likely cleric so I can keep healing myself)

[gbprime]

Is your deity Kelemvor yet?
If not, check him out, his domains are also quite nice, as is his dogma.
Would fit your char perfectly I figure.

Uhm... Kelemvor wants the dead to STAY dead. As in not up and moving around. Bad choice for this character.

[gbprime]

Oh, and see if you can open up Libris Mortis as a sourcebook. There's a gold mine of feats in there for undead characters.

[Strife Warzeal]

Oh, and see if you can open up Libris Mortis as a sourcebook. There's a gold mine of feats in there for undead characters.

Though if you are taking feats from that book wouldn't that drop hints out of character of being undead.

Maybe keep it between you and your dm about access to that book.

[big teej]

Uhm... Kelemvor wants the dead to STAY dead. As in not up and moving around. Bad choice for this character.

eep!!!! :smalleek:

in my(his) defense... he doesn't WANT to be undead, he simply considers it unethical to destroy himself, so he seeks to do some good before his eventual (and inevitable) destruction.



Oh, and see if you can open up Libris Mortis as a sourcebook. There's a gold mine of feats in there for undead characters.

I don't possess it at the moment, and there's no gurantee I'll have access to it before I get to play this character, so I'd like to go ahead and have my feats 'picked' and then if I gain access to new books before I play, I can switch stuff around





Though if you are taking feats from that book wouldn't that drop hints out of character of being undead.

Maybe keep it between you and your dm about access to that book.

it probably would, and I probably will if I get my hands on it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Can you maybe ask the DM to help create a Deathless version of the Bone Template?

That uses positive energy and not negative.

[big teej]

in case anyone is wondering.

I finally came up with a name

Vaul Krieger. undead Knight/Cleric of Wee Jas