Recognizing a statue is a golem

[ffone]

Do/should characters have to make some sort of check - Spot? K(arcana)? - to recognize that a currently-unmoving statue is in fact a stone golem?

There are some creatures, such as Gargoyles (srd) and Topiary Guardians (MMIII) which listed abilities to pretend to be non-creatures (for Gargoyles it's a Spot DC 20). If a creature doesn't have such an entry, does it mean that characters can 'automatically' recognize them?

And the converse question - suppose a BBEG wanted to have statues which actually were just statues, but were intended to fool intruders into thinking they were stone golems (either to project more wealth, power and deterrence, or to lull intruders into a false sense of security when the 10th statue they come across actually is a golem). How would she go about that? Perhaps the Craft checks and gp costs associated with the 'Construction' and 'cost of the body' part of a stone golem, but not the Craft Construct costs/spells associated with 'animating' it?

[Jothki]

Hmm, it'd need to have some sort of mind-affecting powers to convince adventurers that it isn't obviously a disguised golem or other sort of trap, since what else could a statue in a dungeon be?

[Greenish]

Recognizing a statue as a golem is DC 5 Genre Savvy check. :smallcool:

[WarKitty]

On the converse question: Put one golem or gargoyle at the very beginning. Then fill everything else with statues.

[Greenish]

Actually, I don't think there's much difference between an unmoving stone golem and a statue. Divination magic, such as Detect Magic, would be needed to tell for certain whether a statue is a golem or not.

[ffone]

Hmm, it'd need to have some sort of mind-affecting powers to convince adventurers that it isn't obviously a disguised golem or other sort of trap, since what else could a statue in a dungeon be?

That's sort of where I'm going with the question about creating a lot of statues, most of which aren't golems.

I recognize that players can and will metagame (or really, it's not metagaming, just adventurers being paranoid since there lives are at stake) but that doesn't make the question irrelevant. It's like Bluff vs Sense Motive. Even when the PCs don't make a SM check the DM rolls in secret, they'fre free to just assume the NPC is lying to them - making the SM check gives them an actual DM clue. Like seeing through someone's poker face, rather than just assuming they're lying out of paranoid principle.

[Jack_Simth]

By RAW? Unclear. It's the Knowledge(Arcana) check to recognize the critter, specifically (10+HD), but oh well.

Now, if you really want to do something really confusing with it? You mix unmoving golems with regular statues, active golems, and normal statues with one-shot spell traps of Animate Objects on them.

[Starbuck_II]

In Pathfinder, it is DC 20 perception check to notice it is alive.

[Cespenar]

For kicks, describe the statues as "fully armored, hulky, massive figures, as if readied for war", and the actual golems as beautiful art works, posing heroes, noblemen, princesses, and the like.

[Worira]

There are parties that don't destroy all the statues just in case?

[Jack_Simth]

The ones that loot the statues, yes, or the ones that don't have that kind of time

[herrhauptmann]

Do/should characters have to make some sort of check - Spot? K(arcana)? - to recognize that a currently-unmoving statue is in fact a stone golem?

There are some creatures, such as Gargoyles (srd) and Topiary Guardians (MMIII) which listed abilities to pretend to be non-creatures (for Gargoyles it's a Spot DC 20). If a creature doesn't have such an entry, does it mean that characters can 'automatically' recognize them?

And the converse question - suppose a BBEG wanted to have statues which actually were just statues, but were intended to fool intruders into thinking they were stone golems (either to project more wealth, power and deterrence, or to lull intruders into a false sense of security when the 10th statue they come across actually is a golem). How would she go about that? Perhaps the Craft checks and gp costs associated with the 'Construction' and 'cost of the body' part of a stone golem, but not the Craft Construct costs/spells associated with 'animating' it?

Perhaps the golem went back to its plinth, but now it's got a freshblade of grass sticking out from under its foot. (Spot check) A player might wonder how a statue in the long abandoned temple has a leaf under its foot that hasn't decayed to nothing.

Dwarves should probably get their stonecunning to tell if it's a stone statue, a gargoyle, or actually a golem. Of course, that might not help them with a stone statue that's got a 'animate object' trap on it. I think it would follow under the heading of 'unusual stonework.' Which includes things made up to look like stone.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A stone golem will ping on detect magic, but is otherwise indistinguishable from a normal statue as long as it's not moving. This is because a stone golem is a normal statue, that has been animated through powerful magic. If it weren't for the slow ability it wouldn't even ping on detect magic, since it's a creature not an item.

[EagleWiz]

Spot check V.S. the bluff check of the DM with a +2 bonus if flavor text focuses on the statue.

[Poil]

A stone golem will ping on detect magic, but is otherwise indistinguishable from a normal statue as long as it's not moving. This is because a stone golem is a normal statue, that has been animated through powerful magic. If it weren't for the slow ability it wouldn't even ping on detect magic, since it's a creature not an item.

Couldn't that just as easily be a regular statue enchanted to be self cleaning from all the dire half dragon pigeon whatevers hanging about?

[Zeta Kai]

Hmm, it'd need to have some sort of mind-affecting powers to convince adventurers that it isn't obviously a disguised golem or other sort of trap, since what else could a statue in a dungeon be?

The victim of a medusa/cockatrice/basilisk, of course. There should be a check for those, too.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The victim of a medusa/cockatrice/basilisk, of course. There should be a check for those, too.

While there's no check that allows you to determine this, any ability that would determine the presence of a soul would work. The creature isn't dead and type and subtype are unchanged, so it could still be affected normally by spells such as enlarge person or polymorph.

[Zeta Kai]

While there's no check that allows you to determine this, any ability that would determine the presence of a soul would work. The creature isn't dead and type and subtype are unchanged, so it could still be affected normally by spells such as enlarge person or polymorph.

Are you gonna waste a spell slot or a scroll to test that theory on every random statue that your DM puts in your way? As soon as the DM figures out your mania for doing so, you'll find yourself facing the entire Terracotta Army of Xi'an.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Are you gonna waste a spell slot or a scroll to test that theory on every random statue that your DM puts in your way? As soon as the DM figures out your mania for doing so, you'll find yourself facing the entire Terracotta Army of Xi'an.

Of course not. But if I have reason to suspect that a statue I'm looking at may be a victim of petrification I can certainly use an enlarge person to confirm or disprove that suspicion. Eg: people have been disappearing in the woods a short distance from town, and at the about the same time this began a sculptor of tremendous skill moved into town. Alternately, I'm moving through a dungeon, and I see a statue that looks like a fighter that's about to charge an enemy and the room has several broken statues around the room with horrified looks on their faces. People don't generally make sculptures of terrified people. It's called making a judgment call. Incidentally if I use polymorph to determine that fighter statue is, in fact, a fighter; I get 1 rnd/lvl to talk to him and try to figure out what petrified him.

[Sindri]

An unmoving golem is a statue, albeit one that detects as magic and isn't connected to its base or the floor, and which may show signs of wear or grass/dirt it's walked in. Likewise, unmoving zombies are just corpses, until they start to eat you.

The only reason that you get a spot check for gargoyles is that they're alive, and thus need to breathe, move slightly, etc. just like a human can't pretent to be dead very effectively.

If the golem has been inside the entire time, isn't damaged or worn, and there isn't any dust to show tracks, the only way to tell nonmagically would be the seam where it meets the base. And then you can just make the ordinary statues disconnected as well :)

[Mercenary Pen]

Maybe you could set a different knowledge check to recognise the possibility- but not the certainty- that the statue is a golem, for example dungeoneering or history.

I mean, perhaps all that would tell you is that these statues have been carved in the same style as golems from [insert race and tradition here], or whether they look nothing like any historical golem design that has been documented.

[Yora]

In Pathfinder, it is DC 20 perception check to notice it is alive.
That seems too easy to me. I think I might allow a very high spot check to notice little details, like scratches at the arms and feets from earlier combats.

[Starbuck_II]

That seems too easy to me. I think I might allow a very high spot check to notice little details, like scratches at the arms and feets from earlier combats.

It is directly from the module City of Golden Death. Remember as always you add +1 DC per 10 ft from creature.

[FMArthur]

If it has subtle battle marks on it or its pedestal I'd let a high spot check do it. If it has no such signs, I don't think anything outside magical detection should discover its true nature.

If someone has Favored Enemy (Constructs), Knowledge Devotion or some other indication that he's a specialist in knowing this particular type of creature and has dedicated lots of resources to it, I would let a high Knowledge (Arcana) check do it. When we're talking fantasy heroes I don't think it's unreasonable for a master Golem-hunter to just "know" when they see a Golem even if it doesn't seem possible.

[Mastikator]

Put an active, but still steel guard golem, next to the body of a steel guard that has not been golem-ified.
How can a PC tell which is "alive" and which is just an object?

The PC's should see two steel guard golems, or two steel statues. And it should only be the former if the PC has a lot of ranks in knowledge (arcana) or has seen a steel guard golem before. Otherwise it'd be metagaming (cheating).

[Hanuman]

There are a LOT of golems.
I would say a golem appears to be an object, so it'd be an arcana check, succeeding that you could move onto spot check or vice versa, but failing one of these would result in either "wow, why does that armor have a spiky mace for a hand?" or "cool, a statue" without even seeing the mace.

There are fairly few golems that traditionally actually look like statues without being fairly out of place and creepy, the most traditionally camo'd are tin/iron/steels as they generally look like armors, paper golems and wax golems can fit in, but only when surrounded by equally odd environment.

Generally statues are things of attention, the two ways of disguising a golem as a statue is:
A) Divert attention, like have a chase scene end in the town square where a statue is, then have a giant war hammer smash down beside a character as the animated object or golem gets up from it's perch.
B) Make it a game of differences, the more of the same someone sees the less they can pick it out, so if they see 10 statues they generally won't see the golem who's only difference is a different hand or darker shaded inner-helm, ect.

Summery, make a spot then arcane know check for your players, or let them do it if they aren't metagamers.
Short version, spot with a bonus from arcane and circumstance bonus from their history.

[Grollub]

providing you don't want to loot any of the statues... just fire a sling bullet or something at them. If they are set to "guard" in general.. they should move to attack, no ?

[HunterOfJello]

Mountain Hammer time!

[bloodtide]

I've always used spellcraft to let players identify golems. http://http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm

After all, one of the items on the list is 'Identify materials created or shaped by magic, such as noting that an iron wall is the result of a wall of iron spell. No action required. No retry.' I'd say a golem is 'created or shaped by magic'.

For this it's a simple 20+HD. As I feel that most golem makers want you to mistake their creation for a statue.


Quite often, I let the characters make spot or listen checks to see the golem when it first moves. I like to do the 'As the character walks by the golem turns it's head or moves it's eyes to watch them'. And this is on top of spells that 'make the eyes and faces of statues or paintings watch people'.

[Grelna the Blue]

Recognizing a statue as a golem is DC 5 Genre Savvy check. :smallcool:


An unmoving golem is a statue, albeit one that detects as magic and isn't connected to its base or the floor, and which may show signs of wear or grass/dirt it's walked in. Likewise, unmoving zombies are just corpses, until they start to eat you.

Greenish has it right. Sindri almost does.

An unmoving statue is a golem, albeit one that the GM hasn't yet decided to activate. Except when it's a gargoyle or a mimic or a doppelganger.

At least, that's what PCs are safer in assuming.

[Hanuman]

Greenish has it right. Sindri almost does.

An unmoving statue is a golem, albeit one that the GM hasn't yet decided to activate. Except when it's a gargoyle or a mimic or a doppelganger.

At least, that's what PCs are safer in assuming.
In my campaigns, they are usually illusions, it it comes alive it's usually not real.

[Psyx]

Do/should characters have to make some sort of check - Spot? K(arcana)? - to recognize that a currently-unmoving statue is in fact a stone golem?

No. why would they?

Although any party who doesn't ASSUME every statue is a golem is just asking for a granite fist in the face.

The only way of telling prior to them activating would be... hmm.. does detect magic work by the letter of the rules?

[Myth]

So long as it's CR appropriate why would it matter.

"Suddenly, the statue moves - it's a golem! Roll initative"

"Yay, free XP!"

[Emmerask]

One real Golem at the entrance of the dungeon, after that a room with OVER 9000!!!!!! statues all with Nystul's Magic Aura, oh the fun and joy :smallbiggrin:

Anyway detect magic yes they ping, I would allow a spot check under certain circumstances, dust on the floor or scratches on the marble-floor etc, or maybe the golems have fought before and are somewhat damaged in a way that could suggest a battle with them...

The golem itself (if pristine) would not trigger a spot check in my opinion

[Psyx]

I would allow a spot check under certain circumstances, dust on the floor or scratches on the marble-floor etc, or maybe the golems have fought before and are somewhat damaged in a way that could suggest a battle with them...


That's a good point: a recently 'used' golem might have left signs of its passing, or scrapes on the plinth. I'd allow a spot or track check for that, if they got close enough.

[panaikhan]

Golems can look like anything. They don't have to be humanoid works of art.
You see that column with the hairline cracks in it, on the tiled floor? Transformer-Time! Decepti-Column tries to wallop you! Flagstonicon tries to crush your feet!
I know there's a golemn made from stained glass in a campaign book somewhere - possibly Ravenloft.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Golems can look like anything. They don't have to be humanoid works of art.
You see that column with the hairline cracks in it, on the tiled floor? Transformer-Time! Decepti-Column tries to wallop you! Flagstonicon tries to crush your feet!
I know there's a golemn made from stained glass in a campaign book somewhere - possibly Ravenloft.

That is genius. Incidentally, the stained-glass golem is in MM2. Though in that case, I would allow a dwarf the advantage of his stonecunning. A column with unusual seams that's not actually supporting anything? What decent dwarf wouldn't notice that?

[Lord Thurlvin]

I know there's a golemn made from stained glass in a campaign book somewhere - possibly Ravenloft.

Monster Manual II has stained glass golems.

Edit: Or you could read the post above mine and learn the same thing.

[LibraryOgre]

I might allow a spot check to notice, but it's more likely a Detect Magic or a player initiated K:Arcana check.