Dip-able

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Hello playgrounders. I am here to ask and to possibly (if there isn't one already) compose a list of the best 1-2 level dips and what they are best used for. Any contribution is helpful.

Dip: Monk

Double Dip: Fighter

[grarrrg]

Dip-various: any ToB base class, best for powering up non-caster builds.

Dip: Factotum, taken as Human with Able Learner feat, all skills are class skills forever.

Dip-level 2: Paladin (or suitable variant), gives +Cha to all saves.

[Seerow]

If you don't mind Lawful Good, 2 levels in Paladin is awesome in a cha centric build.

[Last Laugh]

binder (with improved binding)

All tome of Battle classes are nice for dipping!

(warblade, crusader, swordsage)

[Greenish]

Cloistered Cleric, hands down.

[FMArthur]

Any ToB class makes a great dip even at level 1, and becomes progressively better to dip the longer you delay taking it (something I really don't like about them).

Also, two Fighter substitutes exist for the two-level dip, and combine with each other and Fighter dips as well for more feats; Psychic Warrior and Feat Rogue. They lose BAB so are generally inferior at meeting melee feat requirements, but are otherwise superior because of the skills and class features.

And hey, Marshals are good only as a dip. :smalltongue:

I'm told that Binders make an excellent, versatile dip class but I've never used 'em before.

[awa]

incarnium is good for a dip totimist gives a nice power boost with just 2 levels
also the essentia cap is based on level not class level so it increase even if you never take another level in the class.

[gorfnab]

Mindbender (CA) - single dip: Telepathy + Mindsight (LoM) feat

Shadow Adept (PGtF) - single dip: Three cool/semi-useful feats for the price of one okay feat, great dip for Shadowcraft Mages (RoS) or Beguilers (PHBII)

Beastmaster (CAdv) - single or double dip: add in the Natural Bond (CAdv) feat for a nice animal companion boost or to give a build a decent animal companion

Ur-Priest (CD) - double dip: Rebuke Undead and accelerated casting

Sublime Chord - single or double dip: though late in the game it does set up for 9th level sorc/wiz spells

Unseen Seer (CM) - double dip: boost casting, skill points, sneak attack, nets you the spell Hunter's Eye (PHBII) for even more sneak attack, and Silent Spell feat for free

Contemplative (CD) - single dip: free cleric domain and advances casting

Divine Oracle (CD) - double dip: Oracle domain, advances casting, evasion in any armor

Sacred Exorcist (CD) - double dip: Turn Undead, Detect Evil at will, and advances casting

Chameleon (RoD) - double dip: access to arcane and divine spells, daily rotating feat

Runesmith (RoS) - single dip: great for dwarven gishes who want to wear armor

[Acanous]

Second on Marshal for a dip. 3 level dip is pretty crazy if you're a chamonkey

[Siosilvar]

One level of Spellsword is almost a must for any gish build that relies on (heavy) armor. You lose nothing the 1st level except 10% of your ASF.

[HunterOfJello]

Wizard 1 dip to grab either a familiar or Abrupt Jaunt (10 foot immediate teleport) which can be used Int Modifier times per day. Not to mention the spells you get.

Some of the wizard variants from Unearthed Arcana give good abilities at level 1 that would benefit other classes. (Augment Summoning comes to mind.)

~

Cloistered Cleric 1 dip to grab the Knowledge Domain and your choice of 2 others. You get plenty of skill points and Bardic Knowledge in the mix also.

You can gain feats including the Extend Spell, Improved Initiative, Blind Fighting, Augment Summoning, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot, Uncanny Dodge, and several others.

Pleasure gives immunity to Charisma damage and drain, Celerity gives +10 movement speed while in light armor, several domains give rerolls (!!), and you can gain all sorts of immunities and resistances from things.

(The other great domain to grab is the Metal Domain which gives Exotic Weapon Proficiency AND Weapon Focus for your choice of Hammer, leading most people to grab it for the Goliath Greathammer. A medium sized version does 1d12 damage and X4 crit, but a large version does 3d6 damage and x4 crit!

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Swordsage 1 minimum for all rogues.

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Anything from Tome of Battle.

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Rogue 1 as a starting point for any character that is a Changeling. The (10 + Int) x4 skill points at level 1 and ability to Take 10 on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive is just ridiculously useful.

~

Barbarian 2 is always popular. Full BAB, +10 movement speed, uncanny dodge, d12 hit die, and all sorts of ACFs make this a useful dip for any melee character.

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Fighter 2 for two bonus feats.

Pyschic Warrior 2 for two bonus feats also.

The Fighter has Full BAB and d10. The Psychic Warrior has 3/4 BAB, d8, and gets psionic powers. It's up to personal choice and build issues.

~

Marshal 1 through 3 can be a powerful dip for a character with a high charisma score.

~

Paladin 2 for your charisma bonus to all saves. Such a massive bonus to saves is hard to argue against for a Bard of Sorcerer character. I don't think a paladin's roleplaying restrictions are worth putting up with for a Paladin X character, but they definitely may be for a Sorcerer X/Paladin 2.

~

Monk 1 for wizards in combination with that one feat whose name I can never remember. Adding your Int bonus to your AC including touch attacks (!!) is very beneficial.

[grarrrg]

Monk 1 for wizards in combination with that one feat whose name I can never remember. Adding your Int bonus to your AC including touch attacks (!!) is very beneficial.

You're probably thinking of Carmendine Monk (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Carmendine_Monk)
Although Kung Fu Genius (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Kung_Fu_Genius) does (almost) the exact same thing.

[Incanur]

The feat rogue variant is especially fun for dipping.

[Gorgondantess]

Master of Masks- can anybody say proficiency with all exotic weapons?
And barbarian is popular, but even more popular is lion totem barbarian. Go-go pounce!

[Gnaritas]

Deadly Hunter Druidic Avenger 1 (Druid with 2 alternate class features from UA)
0-1st level druid spells
druid spell list for activating wands and such
Nature Sense
Wild Empathy
Wisdom to AC
Favored Enemy
Swift Tracker
Track
Fast Movement (barbarian)
Rage

[Duke of URL]

Ur-Priest (CD) - double dip: Rebuke Undead and accelerated casting

Technically, you aren't dipping Ur-Priest if you want the accelerated casting, you're just using it as a prereq/base for a PrC that advances divine casting.

[Violet Octopus]

Sorcerer 1 on a specialist wizard for allowing scroll/wand use from banned schools.

[Duke of URL]

Sorcerer 1 on a specialist wizard for allowing scroll/wand use from banned schools.

Wouldn't Cleric 1 with the Magic domain be a better choice?

Edit: Comparing Cleric 1 to Sorcerer 1 --

Cleric 1 gets: a second domain, useful for all sorts of shenanigans (such as domain feats), turn or rebuke undead, d8 hit die, good fort and will save, heavy armor proficiency (if you want to dip Spellsword later for fey- or gith-craft twilight mithril full plate at 0% ASF), and access to the entire clerical spell list through devices. [Alternatively, Cloistered Cleric to get the Knowledge domain, though this trades appx. 1 hp and medium/heavy armor proficiency -- depends on your priorities and objectives.]

Sorcerer 1 gets: ummm... not a lot. If you traded away your familiar for a wizard ACF, you get it back. If you're that interested in a familiar anyway, you're likely taking Improved Familiar once you qualify, so this would basically be to take a sorcerer ACF (arcane reabsorption is the only one that looks particularly appealing for a wizard, though).

[ArcanistSupreme]

Swashbuckler 3 is popular for Int to damage.

[Prime32]

Monk is more commonly taken as a 2-level dip, since you get another bonus feat (there are plenty of options for this in splats) and evasion.

Regular paladins get a 2-level dip, but Paladin of Tyranny (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofTyrannyClassF eatures) is often used as a 3-level dip to debuff saves (usually in combination with the Dark Companion variant hexblade).


Any ToB class makes a great dip even at level 1, and becomes progressively better to dip the longer you delay taking it (something I really don't like about them).If you want to fix that, just let them change their maneuvers known when they gain a level.


Swashbuckler 3 is popular for Int to damage.A 3-level dip is a bit large for most non-gestalt builds though, since you don't get much else. Swashbuckler 1 grants Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, which is handy if you need the feats and you've already taken an even number of fighter levels. Similarly, Samurai 1 grants EWP (bastard sword). In most cases it would be better to use, say, Psychic Warrior though.


Cloistered Cleric 1 dip to grab the Knowledge Domain and your choice of 2 others. You get plenty of skill points and Bardic Knowledge in the mix also.

You can gain feats including the Extend Spell, Improved Initiative, Blind Fighting, Augment Summoning, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Point Blank Shot, Uncanny Dodge, and several others.

Pleasure gives immunity to Charisma damage and drain, Celerity gives +10 movement speed while in light armor, several domains give rerolls (!!), and you can gain all sorts of immunities and resistances from things.

(The other great domain to grab is the Metal Domain which gives Exotic Weapon Proficiency AND Weapon Focus for your choice of Hammer, leading most people to grab it for the Goliath Greathammer. A medium sized version does 1d12 damage and X4 crit, but a large version does 3d6 damage and x4 crit!The real fun comes when you trade your domain powers for Devotion feats. Knowledge Devotion is one of the best (assuming you also take the Educated feat), as is Travel Devotion.

There is a handbook for this on BG. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773)

[kestrel404]

I've got a partially finished 'guide to dipping' which lists every base class and why you'd want to dip them - with several base classes listed but with no entries. I'll post it behind a spoiler to prevent wall-o-text.

Guide to dipping

Dipping the Base Classes:
Barbarian - One level gets you rage. Rage is awesome. Rage gets you into many, many prestige classes. That first level will also get you either +10 movement, which is nice, or pounce (with an ACF), which is awesome. If you can get Lion Totem barbarian, then a one level dip is exceptionally powerful in the late game, while still being useful in the early to mid game. Two levels of barbarian gets you uncanny dodge, which is always nice.

Bard - One level can get you cantrips, bardic music, bardic lore, and access to the second best skill list in core (after rogue). Taking first level bard for skill monkeys is quite nice. A second level will get you first level spells and another use of bardic music.

Cleric - One level will get your two (or three) domains, each of which is probably better than a bonus feat, and divine spellcasting. Second level gets you nothing.

Druid - First level gets you an animal companion and wild empathy, both of which are quite nice to have at low levels. Most of the Druid's other low level class features are situationally useful at best. However, Druid is the only class where a five level 'dip' will get you something worth that dip - Wild Shape. In addition, having 3rd level spells is also very nice.

Fighter - Two levels gets you two feats and +2 BAB. Not exciting, but often useful.

Monk - One level of monk gets you a laundry list of special abilities that makes it a very tempting dipping class. Each ability, on its own, is very nice. A few of those abilities even combo fairly well. The second level of monk is almost as good, since you get a bonus feat and evasion. If ACFs are allowed, the monk's bonus feats also become almost as versatile as fighter bonus feats, with some strange limitations.

Paladin - One level gets you detect evil at will, which can often be as useful as detect magic at will. Two levels gets you divine grace, which is really nice for high-cha characters, and a couple of points of spontaneous healing.

Ranger - One level gets you good skills, full BAB, and track. This makes it a good 'first level' class for builds that don't want to lose any BAB but still need skill points. The second level will get you one of a limited selection of bonus feats (depending on what sources are available), most of which are useful for meeting various prestige class pre-requisites.

Rogue - One level gets you sneak attack, trapfinding, and lots of skills along with access to the best skill list in core. A second level gets you evasion. Also a good 'first level' class.

Sorceror - One level gets you first level arcane spells and a familiar. You may be able to trade the familiar for something useful using ACFs. Additional levels of sorceror past what you need to get into a prestige class are generally considdered a waste.

Wizard - One level gets you first level arcane spells, a familiar, and scribe scroll. You can trade scribe scroll for a fighter bonus feat (UA ACF), of the familiar for a handy power if you're a specialist wizard (PHB2). Additional levels of wizard are generally considdered a waste unless you take it up to level 5, in which case you get one measly bonus feat.

Non-Core base classes:
Beguiler - Very nice skill selection and decent number of skills, especially for an int-based class. Also, trapfinding and armored mage are always very nice. First level spells spontaneously off of a nice list are great too. This class is good at first level, or later on to meet the skill/spell requirements of prestige classes. Second level has cloaked casting, which can be situationally useful but probably not worth the level.

Duskblade - Full BAB and 1st level arcane spells at level 1! This is golden for meeting prestige class requirements. All knowledge skills is also nice. At second level gets Combat casting, again very useful for meeting prestige class requirements.

Dragon Shaman - Draconic Auras can give you various helpful abilities and buffs that you automatically share with your friends. Perhaps the most useful are Energy Shield (melee attackers who attack the party take 2 energy damage with each hit), Power (the entire party does +1 damage, which adds up in the long run), and Vigor (fast healing 1 up to 1/2 HP). Second level gets you skill focus and another aura, which probably isn't worth it.

Favored Soul - One level gets you a few spontaneous divine spells and three good saves. Not much to recommend it unless you really need those saves. Better off taking cleric.

Hexblade - Full BAB, 2 good saves and a 1/day swift action debuff. Two levels gets you Arcane Resistence, which can be very nice, as it's +cha mod to saves vs spells. Three levels gets you Mettle, which is Evasion for Fort and Will saves - and while there aren't a lot of things that do partial effect on a good will or fort save, it's always nice to avoid the effects of enemy spells. Overall, if you're going to dip this class, it should probably be a three level dip.

Knight - Full BAB, d12 HD, and a lesser version of rage against one (relatively tough) enemy, useable cha mod times per day. Not terrible. Two levels gets you mounted combat. Three gets you Bulwark of Defense, which offers a very interesting effect (enemies who start their action threatened by you treat your threatened squares as difficult terrain, which denies them the ability to 5-foot step) and could be used quite effectively in a specialty build.

Marshal - One level gets you Skill focus diplomacy and a minor aura (which adds your cha bonus to something of your choice off a list which includes charisma based skills!). You could get a general bonus feat if you already HAVE skill focus diplomacy (maybe from two levels of dragon shaman?) but taking it as a feat just to get this free bonus feat is a bit silly. Two levels gets you a Major aura, which is a +1 to something (nothing particularly noteworthy on the list).

Ninja - Trapfinding, good skills, a decent skill list, +1d6 sudden strike damage (like sneak attack but worse), and wis to AC. All very nice. Two levels gets you greater invisibility as a swift action for 1 round, which will let you use that sudden strike (useable wis mod times per day).

Samurai - It's just like fighter, except you don't get to choose your bonus feats! A one level dip is worthwhile only if you were already planning on taking Exotic Weapon Prof (Bastard Sword) and you've already taken two levels of fighter. Two levels is probably never worth it.

Scout - You get as many skills as a rogue, and you've got a list that's in some ways better (but no UMD). Skirmish is generally better than sneak attack for a ranged attack build, and you get trapfinding. Second level gets you uncanny dodge, always nice. It should be noted that five levels and a feat (or two levels with three rogue levels and two feats) will get you +4d6/+3 AC skirmish with a 20' move, which is very tasty.

Spellthief - You're a rogue who's traded 2 skill points/level for the ability to steal and cast spells. If the rest of the class weren't so different I'd considder this an ACF. A second level will get you the ability to steal your enemies buff spells (no level limit, so it's pretty much always useful), which is all kinds of awesome, as well as the ability to detect magic - something rogues everywhere wish they had.

Spirit Shaman - One level gets you 1st level divine spells, Alertness and Wild Empathy - which is a pretty strange combination of abilities but may be useful nonetheless. A second level gets you something similar to Turn Undead, except that it pretty much only works on Incorporeal undead, Fey and Astral travellers.

Swashbuckler - A fighter who's had his choices taken away and has traded medium+ armor for some skill points. But this time there's a useful ability at 3rd level - you can deal +int damage with finesse weapons. Occasionally useful for a 3 level dip.

Warlock - A 1d6 ranged touch attack at will and a single power off of a short but fairly extensive list. Not really a great one level dipping class unless you find an invocation you can't live without. Two levels will get you a second invocation and detect magic at will, which makes it a much nicer prospect - still probably not worth it but better than just one level.

Warmage - One level gets you 1st level charisma based arcane spells in light armor and +int to spell damage. Probably better of dipping wizard.

NPC Classes: Of the NPC classes, all of them are strictly inferior to the available base classes except, perhaps, the lowly commoner. The commoner is so bad they can be used to do interesting things, like enter the Survivor prestige class at 2nd level or take commoner flaws (which are, if nothing else, the most amusing flaws in the game). Of particular note here is the possibility of a '20 level dip' in commoner, which is the only way to create a 20th level character with no class features whatsoever!

Archivist - Wizard-like divine spellcasting is nifty, and Dark Knowledge offers a bonus for yourself and allies that scales with character advancement (based on knowledge check results) rather than class levels, always good to see in a dipped class. A scond level gets you a +2 bonus to a couple of skills including a knowledge check of your choice, which generally isn't worth it.

Binder - The ability to bind a list of different entities, each of whom offers an array of abilities (most of which can be used freely all day) is certainly very nice. Of particular note here is Naberius, a vestige that grants fast healing on all attributes! Note that with a single feat and a 1 level dip, you can also bind any 2nd level vestige (which may explain why none of them are particularly more powerful than the first level vestiges). A two level dip gives you the ability to disguise the fact that you're a binder, which is important since the class fluff basically gives the GM reason to send witch-hunters after you.

Crusader - Maneuvers and a stance are very nice, but don't overlook the Furious counterstrike and steely resolve. The steely resolve is like having 5 bonus until the party cleric gets an action

Dragonfire Adept -

Dread Necromancer - Divine spells, rebuke undead (which is useful for feats and pretige class entry) and negative energy damage at will. All good. A second level gets you DR 2/bludgeoning and magic, which is nice because it's probably something you're not going to see very often. Of course, raising that DR is equally unlikely.

Factotum -

Healer -

Incarnate -

Shadowcaster -

Shugenja -

Soulborn -

Swordsage -

Totemist -

Truenamer -

Warblade -

Wu Jen -

Artificer -

Ardent -

Divine Mind -

Lurk -

Psion/Erudite -

Psychic Warrior -

Soulknife -

Wilder -

UA 'Generic' Classes: Every one of them is awesome as a one-level dip, if for no other reason than you get to pick your own class skills. Above and beyond that you get to pick 'bonus feats' that include hard-to-get class features (like evasion, turn undead and trap sense) which can be taken in a single level dip. However, these classes are generally considdered an alternate rule rather than a dippable class, thanks to the note at in that section of the book saying that you shouldn't mix these generic classes with regular base classes. Still an interesting option if it's available.

I'll finish it someday, or maybe somebody can do it for me?

[Prime32]

Psychic Warrior: The first two levels are like fighter with average BAB and -1hp, except you have a greater range of feats to choose from and you also get psionics. Apart from being interesting in their own right, there are some interesting Psionic feats out there. If you're high-level it might be better to take war mind levels instead.

Soulknife: There is no reason to take this unless you're going soulbow or your DM regularly strips the party naked. Psychic warrior is in all ways superior, dipping or otherwise (they even get an ACF which duplicates mind blade).

Note that monk and scout dips enable Tashalatora and Swift Hunter respectively.

[Violet Octopus]

Wouldn't Cleric 1 with the Magic domain be a better choice?
Good point, but I've still seen people go for a sorcerer dip IRL. I guess it's like dipping for monk AC vs. swordsage AC, some people still go for monk for whatever reason.

[Lans]

OA Samurai 1-2 for daisho, and a feat if you want it.

[Greenish]

Some commentary on Kestrel's list:

Barbarian - One level gets you rage. Rage is awesome. Rage gets you into many, many prestige classes. That first level will also get you either +10 movement, which is nice, or pounce (with an ACF), which is awesome. If you can get Lion Totem barbarian, then a one level dip is exceptionally powerful in the late game, while still being useful in the early to mid game. Two levels of barbarian gets you uncanny dodge, which is always nice.You should note that it's not Lion Totem Barbarian (the UA alternative class) that grants Pounce, but the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (the CChamp ACF).

Cleric - One level will get your two (or three) domains, each of which is probably better than a bonus feat, and divine spellcasting.Don't forget turning, or devotion feats.

Paladin - One level gets you detect evil at will, which can often be as useful as detect magic at will. Two levels gets you divine grace, which is really nice for high-cha characters, and a couple of points of spontaneous healing.Also, paladin spells from wand. They include a few gems. Ditto for ranger.


Ranger - One level gets you good skills, full BAB, and track. This makes it a good 'first level' class for builds that don't want to lose any BAB but still need skill points. The second level will get you one of a limited selection of bonus feats (depending on what sources are available), most of which are useful for meeting various prestige class pre-requisites.Track can also be swapped for Urban Tracking or Trapfinding.


Rogue - One level gets you sneak attack, trapfinding, and lots of skills along with access to the best skill list in core. A second level gets you evasion. Also a good 'first level' class.Martial feat rogue bears mentioning too. Two level dip gets two fighter bonus feats, great skills and Evasion.

Duskblade - Full BAB and 1st level arcane spells at level 1! This is golden for meeting prestige class requirements. All knowledge skills is also nice. At second level gets Combat casting, again very useful for meeting prestige class requirements.Also one of the few classes with full BAB and spellcraft as a class skill, which works for entry to Suel Arcanamach.


Spellthief - You're a rogue who's traded 2 skill points/level for the ability to steal and cast spells. If the rest of the class weren't so different I'd considder this an ACF. A second level will get you the ability to steal your enemies buff spells (no level limit, so it's pretty much always useful), which is all kinds of awesome, as well as the ability to detect magic - something rogues everywhere wish they had.Also perennial favourite for Unseen Seer entry with Master Spellthief that fixes your lost CL and allows casting in light armour.

Binder - A two level dip gives you the ability to disguise the fact that you're a binder, which is important since the class fluff basically gives the GM reason to send witch-hunters after you.That's just more XP. :smallwink:


Crusader - Maneuvers and a stance are very nice, but don't overlook the Furious counterstrike and steely resolve. The steely resolve is like having 5 bonus until the party cleric gets an actionSecond level gets you another stance (that unambiguously doesn't have to be first level) and charisma to will save.


Dragonfire Adept - Breath weapon, even a weak one, has utility with the right feats. Invocations are nifty too, and becoming dragonblooded has it's advantages.


Dread Necromancer - Divine spells, rebuke undead (which is useful for feats and pretige class entry) and negative energy damage at will.DN is an arcane caster. Tomb-tainted Soul gives infinite healing (at pace best described "leisurely").


Factotum - All printed skills ever as class features. 3rd level adds Int to combat maneuvers. Can add int for other miscellanous options. Trapfinding. Can cast limited wizard spells as SLAs from 2nd level. TU analog at 5th level. Extra standard actions at 8th level. You don't know when to stop!

Incarnate -Three soulmelds, crown bind. Poor BAB, eccentric skill list, two good saves. Loses to totemist as a dip, but works with many theurge builds.

Soulborn -Spellcraft & full BAB, nothing else of note.

Swordsage -Maybe the best rogue dip ever. 1st level gets you a sizable handful of maneuvers, a stance, free WF for a set of weapons and a minor initiative boost. 2nd level is another stance and wis to AC in light armour.

Totemist -2nd level gets the unique totem bind. Limitless Dimension Doors, many extra natural attacks, Diehard+, the goodies are many.

Warblade -Maneuvers. Uncanny Dodge.

Psychic Warrior -Fighter or psionic feat at 1st and 2nd levels, a couple of psionic powers, some power points. Excellent dip.

[Vladislav]

Two levels of Wolf Totem Barbarian get you Improved Trip, while bypassing that annoying Int 13 requirement. And rage, of course.

[Greenish]

Two levels of Wolf Totem Barbarian get you Improved Trip, while bypassing that annoying Int 13 requirement. And rage, of course.Can be combined with other goodies. Wolf Totem Barbarian is a variant class which still gets rage (to trade for whirling frenzy) and fast movement (for Pounce), since the latter two are ACFs.

[Telonius]

Anything But Truenamer or Commoner1 for a Rogue.

Binder1 for Warlock (going into Hellfire Warlock). Bind Naberius and forget the con damage.

Ranger1 for quite a few melee builds. Good reflex save, lots of skill points (most melee classes are notoriously skill-poor), a free (though mostly lousy) feat, a favored enemy, and a spell list for purposes of UMD (note that not all DMs rule this to be the case). Ranger2 is iffy. If you're going to take the feat anyway, and you're planning on wearing no more than Medium armor, it's worth it for the saves and skill points. If not, it's not.

[Duke of URL]

Binder1 for Warlock (going into Hellfire Warlock). Bind Naberius and forget the con damage.

Slightly off-topic, but I like the idea of Binder 1 / Warlock 4 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 9 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / (pick) 1. Binder 1 / Warlock 4 is one of the easiest (and most flavorful!) entries to Ur-Priest out there. Plus, by ECL 19, you've got 9th level divine spells (at CL 15, by a conservative reading) and invoker level 16, so you have a dark invocation available. And you still have 1 level to play with -- Mindbender is always nice.

The drawback is that it's a little behind the power around ECL 6-12 or so, but it all depends on what level(s) it's going to be played at.

[Vladislav]

Oh, also Warlock 1 for a party face role (Beguiling Influence, +6 to all social skills)