Two disciplines for a psion?

[AustontheGreat1]

Is it possible to get a two specialized disciplines for a psion? A feat, hopefully?

Specifically, I'm looking to get access to spells exclusive to both the metacreativity and psychokinesis disciplines.

[AstralFire]

Is it possible to get a two specialized disciplines for a psion? A feat, hopefully?

Specifically, I'm looking to get access to spells exclusive to both the metacreativity and psychokinesis disciplines.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge

[AustontheGreat1]

Hmm...Well, it's kind of lame to have to do it one at a time. To get all the stuff I need/want, I'd have to expend an unfortunate amount of feats. If its the only option, I guess I could make due, but is there anything else?

While I'm on the subject, would a chameleon who uses his floating feat to get new power, still have the power when he changes it?

[Mikka]

Of course not. Altough a wizard supposedly learn a new spell, write it down, then learn a new spell and so on. Which would be an expensive task on its own.

[Psyren]

What two disciplines are you trying to get? There's really only a handful of "must-have" spells on each discipline list. Bend Reality and EK can get you the others if needed.

EDIT: I should really read the OP more closely.

[faceroll]

There is this power:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm

If you use psychic reformation (a power), you can gain access to one power of any discipline by shuffling out a feat for expanded knowledge. Takes 15 minutes to manifest and costs xp, though.

Lastly, you could play the erudite variant, which is like the best of both a wizard and a psion.

[Psyren]

Yes, Erudites can also learn multiple discipline powers - doing so is costly however and they have no way of learning the 9th-level ones pre-epic.

Psyreform can be gotten as a tattoo to take care of that XP expenditure however.

[Godskook]

What about an ardent? That custom mantle ACF is a blank check for "Make your own power list".

[Shade Kerrin]

If you use psychic reformation (a power), you can gain access to one power of any discipline by shuffling out a feat for expanded knowledge. Takes 15 minutes to manifest and costs xp, though.

My book says it takes 10 minutes, and can be used to swap out powers without even needing to touch your feats

[Psyren]

My book says it takes 10 minutes, and can be used to swap out powers without even needing to touch your feats

But not discipline powers, which you need EK to access (unless you're an Erudite/Ardent.)

[FMArthur]

What about an ardent? That custom mantle ACF is a blank check for "Make your own power list".

It is a softer rug on which to kneel and beg your DM for free stuff he doesn't have to give you. I honestly don't see why an alternate class feature called "ask your DM for more stuff" even needs to be written at all, let alone repeated in threads as Ardent advice. :smallconfused:

[Psyren]

It is a softer rug on which to kneel and beg your DM for free stuff he doesn't have to give you. I honestly don't see why an alternate class feature called "ask your DM for more stuff" even needs to be written at all, let alone repeated in every Ardent advice thread ever. :smallconfused:

It's unique because it's basically an admission by WotC that "wow, most of these mantles really suck; hey DM, we think you should help the PCs out too."

Anytime WotC admits something is underpowered (whether by "Adaptation," ACFs, stealth-fix-feats etc.) it lends weight to the player's arguments with their DM.

[Analytica]

Sangehirn gives you an alternate list of powers for those levels, which contains some good Telepathy and Psychometabolism powers. Cognition Thief gives additional Telepathy access. Also Hidden Talent at first level may help.

[Coidzor]

Is it possible to get a two specialized disciplines for a psion? A feat, hopefully?

Specifically, I'm looking to get access to spells exclusive to both the metacreativity and psychokinesis disciplines.

I believe Erudite is able to gain access to them. By acquiring powerstones or a member of those disciplines that knows the powers he wants.

Edit; ah well.

[Psyren]

I believe Erudite is able to gain access to them. By acquiring powerstones or a member of those disciplines that knows the powers he wants.

He can do it all by himself too - using Psyreform, Expanded Knowledge and making his own power stones. This is a very time- and XP-intensive route, but he can learn almost every discipline power in the game this way.

A race with a lot of time on his hands - e.g. a Psiforged - can set out to internalize every psionic power in creation via this method. (Seems like the kind of thing a robot would be interested in to me anyway :smallwink:)

EDIT: Just noticed that the OP is after metacreativity and psychokinesis. The Creation mantle has almost every Shaper-only power in one convenient place even before mantle substitution, so Ardent may be the way to go here after all (or Mantled/FD Erudite.)

[Coidzor]

FD Erudite?

[Psyren]

FD Erudite?

Favored Discipline (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)

Basically, they choose a discipline like Psions do - except they have access to EVERY power of that discipline, even the ones from other classes (Ardents, Lurks, you name it) without spending feats, all the way up to 9th level. These powers are also considered general psion/wilder powers, which means they can learn said powers without spending XP via their learning mechanic i.e. they can learn them normally by levelling up.

For example, a Clairsentience Erudite is the only class in the game besides an Ardent or Seer that can learn Metafaculty. That same Erudite can also learn Psionic See Invisibility, a power normally available only to Lurks, without using Expanded Knowledge.

[Endarire]

See also Independent Power Research (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#independentResearch). The Psion rules imply that a Psion ncan research any power of any level he can manifest.

[Godskook]

It is a softer rug on which to kneel and beg your DM for free stuff he doesn't have to give you. I honestly don't see why an alternate class feature called "ask your DM for more stuff" even needs to be written at all, let alone repeated in threads as Ardent advice. :smallconfused:

1.Its worth mentioning in that it is both RAW and more balanced than an Erudite. Especially since the primary goal is to merge two disciplines, which would work quite nicely as two mantles, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the powers are already on mantles as it is.

2.DMs are sometimes more willing to allow something purely on the "its published" factor, either cause they're overly trusting of WotC(laughable) or because published material has had more time to be evaluated by the community(more reasonable). In the latter case, I really don't hear people going "Ardents are OP cause of that mantle ACF" ever.

3.He asked for Psion advice, actually. I mentioned it cause its the only way I know of to get done what he wants done without dealing with an Erudite, which I'm less familiar with, and are more infamous for being fairly borked.

4.Unlike psions, ardents don't get a "basics" list, so without the ACF, picking up a mantle for a single power is shooting one's self in the foot. as an Ardent, while a psion still has all his juicy 'standard' powers to choose from even if he disciplined for only 1-2 spells. Sure, filling a mantle with the "top 10 psionic powers" makes little sense, but the above player isn't trying to do that. He specifically wants powers from two disciplines, which conveniently look almost exactly like mantles(9 similarly themed powers).

[Psyren]

1.Its worth mentioning in that it is both RAW and more balanced than an Erudite.
...
He asked for Psion advice, actually. I mentioned it cause its the only way I know of to get done what he wants done without dealing with an Erudite, which I'm less familiar with, and are more infamous for being fairly borked.


Erudites are actually a touch weak, if you go with the table interpretation of UPD instead of the rather crazy text - especially with their very silly multiclassing restriction. They're excellent in a party with other manifesters - becoming essentially a walking "spellbook" or archive of powers, many of which the others wouldn't waste brain cells on - but if you're going to be the only manifester in the party, Psion is a better choice 90% of the time.

All 3 Erudite ACFs are awesome however :smallsmile:



He specifically wants powers from two disciplines, which conveniently look almost exactly like mantles(9 similarly themed powers).

The best part is, one mantle (Creation) handles Metacreativity quite nicely. That leaves him wiith 3-4 to flesh his list out with. Especially since the primary goal is to merge two disciplines, which would work quite nicely as two mantles, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the powers are already on mantles as it is.