Incantatrix... Am I missing something?

[tuesdayscoming]

So Incantatrix is a powerful PrC, no doubt, but I'm a bit confused about something I keep reading about it. Namely, that you can reduce metamagic costs to +0 (or even lower). But the relevant ability description clearly states that there is a +1 minimum.

Am I missing something?

[Boci]

You looking at the Magic of Faerune or the Players Guide to Faerune one? The former is powerful, the latter is arguably broken.

[tuesdayscoming]

The PGtF one, but IIRC, my question is valid for both.

[Boci]

For the PGtF, co-operative metamagic and metamagic effect. Plus both can ignore the level adjustment 2/day.

[Karsh]

Getting reduced to 0 comes from either taking feats like Metamagic School Focus or Easy Metamagic, or taking Arcane Thesis and specializing in tricking out one spell in particular with metamagic. The adjustments are done in the order that's most favorable, so the Incantatrix reduction never gets applied after a metamagic has already been reduced to +1.

[Godskook]

Here, read up:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81794

Once you're done, realize that most of the abuse is incantrix fueled.

[tyckspoon]

0-level cost requires sources outside the Incantatrix; Arcane Thesis is one of the most common, although it only works for a single spell- it's usually used to create a nearly unresistable and lethal attack method from a spell like Orb of Fire or Enervation. The other big trick is cost replacement instead of reduction, like how Divine Metamagic operates- the Incantatrix can apply metamagic effects to things with a Spellcraft check instead of using increased spell slots at all.

[Emperor Tippy]

Getting reduced to 0 comes from either taking feats like Metamagic School Focus or Easy Metamagic, or taking Arcane Thesis and specializing in tricking out one spell in particular with metamagic. The adjustments are done in the order that's most favorable, so the Incantatrix reduction never gets applied after a metamagic has already been reduced to +1.

Pretty much what Karsh said. Arcane Thesis can reduce negative so you pile on a ton of +0 metamagic (such as Energy Substitution) and then use the -1 from that to offset the level adjustment for another spell.

For example, an Arcane Thesis, Quickened, Energy Substitution (Acid), Invisible Spell, Orb of Fire has a level adjustment of +0 after 10 levels of Incantatrix.
Quickened= +2 (-1 from Arcane Thesis and -1 from Incantatrix capstone).
Energy Substitution = -1 (-1 from AT)
Invisible Spell = -1 (-1 from AT)
Total= +0 (+2 from quicken, -1 from Energy Substitution, -1 from Invisible Spell).

However, the really broken bit is using Metamagic Effect to persist a ton of buffs for no real cost (rounds/level buffs become all day buffs).

[Boci]

However, the really broken bit is using Metamagic Effect to persist a ton of buffs for no real cost (rounds/level buffs become all day buffs).

Isn't spell dancer better for that? Oh no, I'm fatigued/exhausted, but all my buff spells have been persisted with no level increase.

[tuesdayscoming]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! I'll read up on all this and see if I can't figure it out.

[Karsh]

Isn't spell dancer better for that? Oh no, I'm fatigued/exhausted, but all my buff spells have been persisted with no level increase.

The difference is that Incantatrixes can't do that to their own spells, but they can for spells cast by other people. This gets particularly out of hand when you have multiple Incantatrixes in one party, as they start doing the fusion dance to crack out all of your buffs.