Big girls and big swords.

[Baveboi]

I have a bit of a complication with a character of mine, a fighter with a Bastard Sword. It wouldn't be much of a problem if I wanted to follow mundane paths such as the Monkey Grip or things like that, but I really want her to be a peerless swordsman with my weapon of choice.

I already found a useful class, Exotic Weapons Master, and her stats aren't a big problem for multiclassing (15,14,14,14,13,13), but I can't find anything else besides. Any feats, itens, skills or classes I should know about? I'm taking in consideration attack, damage and AC here.

[Crossblade]

First, what system? 4e? 3.5? PF? And what books are allowed?

Power Attack > Cleave > etc... are standard routes.

[Amphetryon]

If you're set on Bastard Sword, you might as well consider getting into Ronin for Banzai Charge.

[Baveboi]

First, what system? 4e? 3.5? PF? And what books are allowed?

Power Attack > Cleave > etc... are standard routes.

Sorry, I forgot to mention. It's 3.5 Forgotten Realms. Mainly we can't use many books, but I want to hear opinions and such.

[Greenish]

I have a bit of a complication with a character of mine, a fighter with a Bastard Sword. It wouldn't be much of a problem if I wanted to follow mundane paths such as the Monkey Grip or things like that, but I really want her to be a peerless swordsman with my weapon of choice.There's a guide for being a peerless swordsman on the first page of this forum. :smallamused:

[Yora]

You mean the warblade guide?
From the OP, it doesn't seem like this is an option.

[Greenish]

You mean the warblade guide?
From the OP, it doesn't seem like this is an option.He posted about the limited book availability while I was typing.

Oh well, warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) and maneuvers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) are available online, and IMO warblades are the peerless swordsmen. Each for their own, of course.

[Baveboi]

He posted about the limited book availability while I was typing.

Oh well, warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) and maneuvers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) are available online, and IMO warblades are the peerless swordsmen. Each for their own, of course.

I never liked those fightan magicians. They look too much like Ahneemay to me.
I am talking about something more old style fantasy.

[Greenish]

I never liked those fightan magicians. They look too much like Ahneemay to me.
I am talking about something more old style fantasy.You know, you could have just said you prefer not to use ToB, instead of fitting in all those baits. :smallamused:

Barbarian dip is a nifty option if you have access to Comp. Champion, since Pounce makes movement in combat much easier for you. Say, why don't you post your available books so we can avoid suggesting things you don't have access to.

[Morithias]

I believe there is a feat that lets you gain powerful build, or a bloodline, might've been Goliath bloodline. Which should fit your needs.

Of course you might be able to talk your DM into letting you be a human with goliath stats just stating that you're basically an Amazon (and there are humans with conditions like that in the real world, my one friend has two y chromosomes).

I find being open with what you want to do to your DM, can help you get a lot of this stuff done fast. If they're dming often they usually know a fair bit of the ins and outs of books.

[Baveboi]

You know, you could have just said you prefer not to use ToB, instead of fitting in all those baits. :smallamused:

HAHA! Sorry, my players LOVE to use ToB. As an old school fantasy kind of guy I tend to whipe them now and then and do many jokes like this one.


Barbarian dip is a nifty option if you have access to Comp. Champion, since Pounce makes movement in combat much easier for you. Say, why don't you post your available books so we can avoid suggesting things you don't have access to.

The books are all the FR books, the Completes and core. But I bet I can put anything not too much unusual inside, too. I'm actually looking more for ideas than builds, if you get my drift. I've always been a good fan of fluff over mechanics.

EDIT:


I find being open with what you want to do to your DM, can help you get a lot of this stuff done fast. If they're dming often they usually know a fair bit of the ins and outs of books.

I DM a lot too, actually it's my second or third time playing :smallredface: and I have nothing against telling my DM about my plans, only they inexistent for the time being. :smalltongue:



If it is any help, I have her sheet right here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=257808). Since it's already done and running, I can't rework the character now, but I can evolve it from where it stands.

I just need a bit more of steel power.

[Greenish]

I believe there is a feat that lets you gain powerful build, or a bloodline, might've been Goliath bloodline. Which should fit your needs.Jotunbrud from RoF. It doesn't give full benefits of Powerful Build though, it doesn't allow you to use bigger weapons.

[Telonius]

I never liked those fightan magicians. They look too much like Ahneemay to me.
I am talking about something more old style fantasy.

Oh, in that case just stick to the Weapon Focus and Specialization lines. No need for any of those newfangled fancy schmancy feats. :smallwink:

[Psyren]

I am talking about something more old style fantasy.

I guess my Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicwarrior.htm)/PWM (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) suggestion is out the window then. :smalltongue:

Still, you'd have a powerful melee character (T3) with no need for special books on your part, so I urge you to at least consider it. Plus, Faerun has psionics.

And the PWM picture is a girl with a big sword like you wanted!

[Greenish]

If it is any help, I have her sheet right here (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=257808). Since it's already done and running, I can't rework the character now, but I can evolve it from where it stands.

I just need a bit more of steel power.Say, how do you feel about being really scary? If you can refluff Zhentarim fighter sub levels, you could start building on that. There is a handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) on that.

Avenging Executioner from Comp. Scroundrel seems like it'd fit into your backstory, and would get you some skills (what's a master swordsman without balance?). Then with the right skill tricks you could go for Combat Trickster from the same book to gain some options to represent your mastery of the sword. Shrouded Dance for example sounds like something a swordsman could use, using your cloak to conceal yourself from attacks.

Since you already sport Combat Expertise, take a gander at true_shinken's guide to defensive fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178445), and learn to defend yourself.

Finally, no post is complete without a link to Person_Man's works. Let his guide to melee combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7047955&posted=1) inspire you.

[AtwasAwamps]

Okay, well…hrmm…


MECHANICS:

I’m assuming you’re going to go Fighter -> Exotic Weapon Master. I’d really suggest following up Exotic Weapon Master with Kensai, which has some great features and really enhances that “Master of Weapon” feel that you’re looking for and keeps you away from taking too many fighter levels =P

I assume you are making yourself proficient with a bastard sword, but if you want to be devastating in combat, use it in two hands regardless with Power Attack (check below for awesome fluff reasons for doing so, which is exactly how I conceive playing/RPing this character archetype without losing out on power). If you really want to, you can go for the Mastery feats at high levels, but I find them blah.

I think the soonest you can enter EWM is 5 or 6 level. If its 5th, Fighter 4/Other stuff is fine. If its 6, try to fill up that extra level with something else…Barbarian/Monk/OA Samurai, something that fits with your ideas. Mechanically, Spirit Lion Barbarian is the strongest thanks to Pounce, but you may not like that. If you’re willing to sacrifice some BAB, Cloistered Cleric or just plain Cleric is always good, trading Domains for Devotion Feats (Law and Chaos are my favorites for straight up melee face smashers, but animal and knowledge are both fantastic). Cleric will even give you access to wands and there’s nothing wrong with that!

Shock Trooper/Combat Brute will make you a powerful fighter and depending on which way you go from there and what your dips are, you can get that “Mistress of the Sword” image through mechanically.

FLUFF

Okay, bear with me. There was this anime (don’t judge yet!) that a friend was telling me about (seriously, I wish this was a joke, but they were all talking about it and I had no idea what was going on…I think it was…Naruto? Something that’s been on Cartoon Network, at least…damn, I am friends with a group of WEIRD 25+ year-olds), which featured this guy who was super, super strong/powerful/what have you but had no skill whatsoever. He was a great swordsman just because he would batter people with his sword till they died. BUT there was an episode where, apparently, he was being beaten and he decided he would have to use one of his hated kendo lessons:

“I learned that when you USE TWO HANDS, YOU HAVE MORE POWER!”

I like to envision a master of a weapon purposefully holding back to increase the challenge of a fight…like Inigo and the Man in Black. I like to envision your character wading through her weaker opponents with her sword in a one-handed grip, slashing and making rude gesture with her other hand, until faced with a more formidable foe…where she gets all grim-dark-angry faced and adds a SECOND HAND TO THE GRIP. Drama Potential: MAXIMIZED.

Also, go to ToB and look up the Duel of Wills mechanic. Then, max the crap outta that. Then max Perform (Weapon Drill), which I think is in complete warrior. Intimidate is also good. You’re the absolute BEST with that big pointy meat cleaver, so make DAMN SURE EVERYONE KNOWS IT when you flip it into the air, strike a pose, and let it land in your sheath. Or balance the whole damn thing on one finger. Or, you know, stab them with it.

[gbprime]

Well I have a question. You've chosen feats Improved Initiative, Able Learner, Arcane Schooling, and Combat Expertise. How did you get all 4 at 1st level? I don't see any flaws.

Able Learner is kind of a waste of a feat slot for a swordsman. You usually take it if there are specific PrC's you're aiming for that you cannot get with your intended mix of classes. Power Attack would go much farther to getting you into a powerful sword weilding build, regardless of your future plans...

And rather than take Arcane Schooling, you might consider a couple levels of wizard instead. You have the INT for low level spells, it would cost you only 1 BAB,and you could even trade scribe scroll out for a fighter bonus feat (Unearthed Arcana). You could then later take abjurant Champion levels. I realize this is more than just using wands and scrolls, but it's an easy dip and you end up with actual spells. (And once you get to 4th level spells, you can take Minor Shapeshift and give yourself temp HP every round as a free action...)

[Darrin]

Avoid Monkey Grip. The only time where Monkey Grip makes any sense is if you can increase your base weapon damage up above 2d8 or 4d6, where your damage output starts to keep pace with two-handed Power Attack. At that point, the -2 size penalty might be worth it.

We need to know what fighting style you prefer: two-handed, TWF, or sword-and-board. Actually, we can probably rule out two-handed, since a greatsword does better damage and doesn't need EWP.

First, get ahold of some Strongarm Bracers (6000 GP, MIC p. 139). This does everything everybody wants Monkey Grip to do without a -2 size penalty.

Second, see if "heavy" weapons (Magic of Faerun p. 179) are available. Heavy weapons are made out of gold or platinum. They increase the damage by one size category... sorta. Actually, by RAW, a large-sized bastard sword goes 1d10 -> 2d8, and then adding the heavy property goes 2d8 -> 4d6. Check with your DM on that, he may prefer to just call it a size increase and go 2d8 -> 3d8. A heavy weapon requires a separate Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Bastard Sword). If you already sunk a feat into a non-heavy EWP (Bastard Sword), then ask if you can retrain it, or take a 1-level dip into Warblade for Weapon Aptitude (note: you will no longer be proficient with normal bastard swords). A 1-level dip into Master of Masks for the Gladiator mask also makes you proficient with all exotic weapons. A heavy bastard sword costs an additional +7000 GP on top of the base price.

If money is short and you have a way to activate spell-trigger items (UMD, Sor/Wiz dip, Magic domain, etc.), adding a Wand Chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape) and a wand of master's touch (750 GP, Spell Compendium) can give you proficiency for 10 rounds per charge.

After that, consider increasing your size. Person_Man has an excellent guide for that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127732).

For TWF, the everything above should work for your primary weapon. To add a bastard sword as your off-hand weapon, there are two methods:

Oversize TWF (Complete Adventurer p. 111): Although this costs a feat, you can wield a second large-sized heavy bastard sword as a light weapon for the purposes of TWF penalties. This last point might be worth noting because you can still treat it as a one-handed weapon for other things like Power Attack. You may not be able to match the damage output of two-handed Power Attack + multipliers, but it makes you look *so* much more like a total bad-ass.

Unawaked/Lesser Sunsword (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft p. 210): For only 3000 GP, this is a bastard sword +1 that can be wielded as either a bastard sword or a shortsword. As an off-hand weapon, treated as a short-sword it's already light and non-exotic, so no need for EWP or Oversize TWF. A large-sized heavy sunsword would still be considered a light weapon if wielded as a shortsword, but you'd need EWP (Heavy Bastard Sword or Heavy Shortsword) and you can't use Power Attack or Weapon Finesse with it.

If you're not using the Heavy property or it isn't available, you can TWF with two sunswords without EWP. However, they'd both be considered light weapons, since you're wielding them both as short swords. Adding EWP (Bastard Sword) would allow you to treat your primary sunsword as a one-handed weapon, but your off-hand would still be light without Oversize TWF.

Another disadvantage to TWF is the feat cost for getting Improved and Greater TWF. You can get around this through the mid-range levels by picking up Gloves of the Balanced Hand (8000 GP, MIC p. 105). You can then put off taking Improved TWF until the higher levels, or use the item to qualify for Greater TWF if you decide you need it at ECL 12/15/18. If you need another attack but can't afford the feat, a Speed weapon or wand chamber + haste/swift haste might be better in the long run.

PrCs:

First, avoid Tempest. The Spring Attack feat chain does not help TWF at all.

You mentioned Exotic Weapon Master, but this PrC actually doesn't help bastard swords all that much because it's not a double weapon. The Exotic Weapon Stunts available:

Close-Quarters Ranged Combat: bastard sword isn't ranged.
Double Weapon Defense: no help here.
Exotic Reach: nope.
Exotic Sunder: destroying potential treasure isn't always a good strategy.
Flurry of Strikes: this is the #1 reason to go into this PrC, but it doesn't help you with bastard swords.
Ranged Disarm: if thrown, yes, might help, but not likely to come up all that often.
Show Off: intimidate as a standard action is a waste of an action. Why bother making an opponent shaken if you can just cleave his skull in two?
Stunning Blow: no. If you need this, add Sudden Stunning (DMGII p. 261) for +2000 GP.
Throw Exotic Weapon: meh... there are better ways to add the Throwing property, like Bloodstorm Blade. Guantlets of Throwing (MIC p. 104) are only 2000 GP.
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting: might work with Oversize TWF, definitely works with two sunblades. So yeah, might be worth a dip just for this.
Trip Attack: the only thing this adds to a standard trip is you can avoid a counter-trip by dropping your weapon.
Uncanny Blow: not an option if you're going TWF, and not really worth it if you're one-handing or two-handing unless you have a very high strength bonus.

So, a 1-level dip into Exotic Weapon Master + Weapon Focus is better at canceling your -2 TWF penalty than 5 levels of Tempest.

The other PrC that can get rid of TWF penalties is Bloodclaw Master (ToB). However, this only works with daggers or Tiger Claw weapons, and thus won't work with bastard swords. The Aptitude property (ToB p. 148) won't help either, since that only applies to feats, not class abilities. However, a sunsword with the Morphing property (+1 enhancement, MIC p. 39) could probably be changed into a greataxe (Tiger Claw weapon)... that can be wielded as a shortsword.

Other TWF issues:

You'll want to get pounce or some other method to move + full attack, and Person_Man has another excellent guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) for that. Other than Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian, Travel Devotion (both in Complete Champion) is probably the easiest method.

You'll want to add whatever kind of bonus damage you can find. Sneak attack + Craven is usually pretty decent. Skirmish is a lot more work for a lot less payoff, but with the right build you can kinda-sorta attempt to keep up with Sneak Attack.

After that, energy damage is probably the cheapest method: alchemical weapon capsules, wand chamber + blades of fire, Rubicund Frenzy and/or Crystal of Energy Assault (MIC p. 26/64), Bracers of Lighting (MIC p. 206), spells: frost weapon/sonic weapon/blade bane.

[Grelna the Blue]

I dunno, might be too anime-ish for you, but the 3-level PrC Shadowstriker in the Complete Champion adds a LOT of bang for any good-aligned warrior, including but not limited to a usage of smite evil 1x/day. Only requirements to enter are good alignment, +5 BAB, 2 ranks in Knowledge: Religion, and any one of several Devotion feats (Law Devotion or Strength Devotion would probably work best for you).

[Lord.Sorasen]

Okay, bear with me. There was this anime (don’t judge yet!) that a friend was telling me about (seriously, I wish this was a joke, but they were all talking about it and I had no idea what was going on…I think it was…Naruto? Something that’s been on Cartoon Network, at least…damn, I am friends with a group of WEIRD 25+ year-olds), which featured this guy who was super, super strong/powerful/what have you but had no skill whatsoever. He was a great swordsman just because he would batter people with his sword till they died. BUT there was an episode where, apparently, he was being beaten and he decided he would have to use one of his hated kendo lessons:

“I learned that when you USE TWO HANDS, YOU HAVE MORE POWER!”

I like to envision a master of a weapon purposefully holding back to increase the challenge of a fight…like Inigo and the Man in Black. I like to envision your character wading through her weaker opponents with her sword in a one-handed grip, slashing and making rude gesture with her other hand, until faced with a more formidable foe…where she gets all grim-dark-angry faced and adds a SECOND HAND TO THE GRIP. Drama Potential: MAXIMIZED.

That one is Bleach. I watched that once upon a time. It wasn't so much that he lacked skill so much as he lacked magical ability.

Do you have access to BoED? Anointed Knight can make your weapon pretty awesome.

So, don't get me wrong, but... You don't want to appear like an anime character, but you want to be a master of the oversized weapon? That might be sort of difficult.. But I do want to mention that your roleplaying has way more effect on your character feel than your actual class.

[Baveboi]

That was very helpful guys, I think I got this going.
I must admit that all the "ohpeteemeezatchiom" this kids talk about these days ain't for my taste. I never roll a character for the damage output or BAB or whatever, I always do it for the fluff. I would rather leave the power gaming to competitions, like GW pvp and raids. It's kinda useless to try to compete against the DM (I know, I often f*** my players whenever they think they got it all figured out, only for the lulz). Besides, power building too much more than often insite rightful rage inside a game.

Nonetheless I thank you oh! so much. If not only by meddling with some of your presented options I believe I wouldn't had found a good balance between "mechanics" and "feelings". Thank you so very much.

For everyones personal amusement, I will post something to enrich the boards culture a bit more, since the boards helped me with the mechanics of my dilema. You know, Ying and Yang. This colection of Almost-Forgotten knowledge (http://fly.cc.fer.hr/~per/bgbooks/BGBooks.html) can be pretty handy in a FR campaign or just for plain inspiration. Or, you know, if you are like me and want to explore the multiverse of D&D a bit farther than the character sheet.


Once again, thank you guys so very much.
Bavette.

[gbprime]

I must admit that all the "ohpeteemeezatchiom" this kids talk about these days ain't for my taste. I never roll a character for the damage output or BAB or whatever, I always do it for the fluff. I would rather leave the power gaming to competitions, like GW pvp and raids. It's kinda useless to try to compete against the DM (I know, I often f*** my players whenever they think they got it all figured out, only for the lulz). Besides, power building too much more than often insite rightful rage inside a game.

That entirely depends on how you do it. I, for example, can powergame, but I choose instead to protect a game from it by enlightening the DM. (I use my powers only for good. :smallamused: ) More to the point, a good build enables the character to really shine at their role in the group while preserving the heroic weakness or glaring hole in his/her capabilities.

What you don't want to do is go above Tier 3. That's the level where the DM starts to cry and break out the ban stick. But if you use optimization to make sure the character is Tier 4 or Tier 3 and that everything fits around your core concept and story, then you're a strong concept and an asset to the team.

[Baveboi]

That entirely depends on how you do it. I, for example, can powergame, but I choose instead to protect a game from it by enlightening the DM. (I use my powers only for good. :smallamused: ) More to the point, a good build enables the character to really shine at their role in the group while preserving the heroic weakness or glaring hole in his/her capabilities.

What you don't want to do is go above Tier 3. That's the level where the DM starts to cry and break out the ban stick. But if you use optimization to make sure the character is Tier 4 or Tier 3 and that everything fits around your core concept and story, then you're a strong concept and an asset to the team.

Agreed. It's more one of my things, tho. I love weak and human-like characters with plenty of in-built flaws and screw ups.
They look like real people, and FEEL like real people. As a DM I never kill those types when I can work around it and whenever I do, I do it with STYLE, but I feel no mercy towards the strong. They get it rough from me. :smallamused:

[Greenish]

I only just noticed that the forum managed to swallow my post. Luckily, it was still in the memory, so here you go:


That was very helpful guys, I think I got this going.
I must admit that all the "ohpeteemeezatchiom" this kids talk about these days ain't for my taste. I never roll a character for the damage output or BAB or whatever, I always do it for the fluff.Optimization (well, practical optimization anyhow) is about making a character whose actual capabilities match those envisioned.

For example, a master swordsman who can hit the broad side of the barn and who doesn't trip on his own feet.

Otherwise, you can whine all you care about roleplaying and fluff and "old schools", but if your master swordsman needs to get lucky to defeat a goblin with a sharp stick, well, regardless of what his 16-page backstory claims, he is no master swordsman.

[gbprime]

Hey, some of us optimizers ARE old school. :smallamused:

[Greenish]

Hey, some of us optimizers ARE old school. :smallamused:Hence the scare quotes.

[Baveboi]

Optimization (well, practical optimization anyhow) is about making a character whose actual capabilities match those envisioned.

For example, a master swordsman who can hit the broad side of the barn and who doesn't trip on his own feet.

Otherwise, you can whine all you care about roleplaying and fluff and "old schools", but if your master swordsman needs to get lucky to defeat a goblin with a sharp stick, well, regardless of what his 16-page backstory claims, he is no master swordsman.

Calm down dude. I know this. I have nothing against optmization, it's only that I prefer fluff over it. I wouldn't get a feat that doesn't make sense background/wise nor would I play many classes that don't match the character's idea.

What I was saying before still weights heavily tho, "I love weak and human-like characters with plenty of in-built flaws and screw ups." What can I say?
Playing Belkar or Xykon or Whatnot is cool, but I like more often to be Ellan and just make the game feels real for everyone else.

Of course, if my swordsman can't hit the wide side of a barn, he's not a swordsman. He's a commedian. xD


Hey, some of us optimizers ARE old school. :smallamused:

I know man, I was being kinda acidic/sarcastic on purpose cause I'm new to the foruns and never heard of it before.

[HunterOfJello]

Have you considered the Full Blade? It's a Two-Handed Weapon that is too large to be wielded by a normal Medium sized creature. The stats are 2d8 damage and 19-20/x2 crit. The Full Blade can be worth the price of the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, while the Bastard Sword really doesn't help much mechanically.

I make this suggestion so you can have your cake (big sword) and eat it too (effective big exotic sword).

~

Also, if you later gain the ability to wield Large Sized weapons as Medium Weapons (Ex: Strongarm bracers), you can use the Full Blade as a Bastard Sword, or get a Full Blade that is one size larger (3d8 damage per swing).

[Greenish]

Calm down dude.:smallconfused: I wasn't even particularly "sarcastic/acetic" there, so what do you mean?

I know this. I have nothing against optmization, it's only that I prefer fluff over it.The two are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, they often go hand in hand so the mechanics of your character match the fluff. For there to be a discrepancy between the two, why, it's almost a sin against roleplaying.

I know man, I was being kinda acidic/sarcastic on purpose cause I'm new to the foruns and never heard of it before.Hey, great tactic, since none of us knows you from before and thus can't tell whether you're joking or not, why not try to insult everyone! Oh, it'll be a blast! :smallwink:

[Baveboi]

:smallconfused: I wasn't even particularly "sarcastic/acetic" there, so what do you mean?

The two are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, they often go hand in hand so the mechanics of your character match the fluff. For there to be a discrepancy between the two, why, it's almost a sin against roleplaying.

Hey, great tactic, since none of us knows you from before and thus can't tell whether you're joking or not, why not try to insult everyone! Oh, it'll be a blast! :smallwink:

1 - I was just saying, dude, wanted to mean nothing by it. Don't take it too personal. Sheesh.
2 - I agree with you when you say they aren't appart, but I disagree when you say they can't be. I've seen thousands of examples as a player and DM, but you will see it eventually.
3 - Man, I'm sorry if I insulted you about anything. Really. I'm NOT being sarcastic nor playing with words. English is not my mother language so I most of the times walk around with my foot on my mouth. And I know you didn't knew me before, that's why I was explaining myself.
Sorry again dude, didn't mean to upset you.



Have you considered the Full Blade? It's a Two-Handed Weapon that is too large to be wielded by a normal Medium sized creature. The stats are 2d8 damage and 19-20/x2 crit. The Full Blade can be worth the price of the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, while the Bastard Sword really doesn't help much mechanically.

I make this suggestion so you can have your cake (big sword) and eat it too (effective big exotic sword).

It kinda goes against the Character. The sword was her father's favored weapon. She kinda have one of those freudian father complex. lol.

Trying not to double post. It's kinda like a dance when everyone is talking to you. :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

1 - I was just saying, dude, wanted to mean nothing by it. Don't take it too personal. Sheesh.:smallconfused:


2 - I agree with you when you say they aren't appart, but I disagree when you say they can't be.I never claimed that.

I've seen thousands of examples as a player and DM, but you will see it eventually.Your condescension is slowly starting to, as they say, get my goat.

3 - Man, I'm sorry if I insulted you about anything. Really. I'm NOT being sarcasticBut didn't you just say you were being sarcastic?

English is not my mother language so I most of the times walk around with my foot on my mouth.Neither is it mine, so you'll have to forgive me if I find that argument less than convincing. :smallamused:


Sorry again dude, didn't mean to upset you.Don't worry about it, I'm not upset. I will be if you keep acting like I should be, however. :smallwink:

She kinda have one of those freudian father complex. lol.Uh. Freudian (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreudWasRight) father complex with a large sword. I'm not sure I even want to contemplate the symbolism here.

Her father's sword… :smalleek:

[Baveboi]

That quote stuff is getting old. xD

@Greenish: I wasn't being sarcastic when I was apologizing to you, man. I was being sarcastic before, not now.
And I wasn't very good on my mother language to begin with, so bear with me a bit. Haha.

And hey, I like to make characters with problems and screw ups. They feel more realistic.

Sorry about the misspellings and misscomunicating problems. They get old after a time. :smallredface:

[Grelna the Blue]

I don't have books handy at the moment, but if you want it to be an heirloom weapon, any chance that the Ancestral Relic feat from BoXD and/or that Item Familiar feat from Unearthed Arcana (I think) might be appropriate? Maybe in combination with the Kensai PrC from CW?

[Greenish]

And hey, I like to make characters with problems and screw ups. They feel more realistic.So? That has nothing to do with optimization, and it's not like people who like to optimize always play perfect mary sues.

Maybe Villain Sues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue), sometimes… No, I admit nothing!

[Edit]:
I don't have books handy at the moment, but if you want it to be an heirloom weapon, any chance that the Ancestral Relic feat from BoXD and/or that Item Familiar feat from Unearthed Arcana (I think) might be appropriate?Good catch. Ancestral Relic is excellent for using the same weapon your whole career. It allows you to sacrifice money (or valuables) to upgrade a weapon that belonged to someone in your family.

[Baveboi]

@The Blue: I was thinking something on the line of the Kensai, yes. But the sword is not a heriloom more than a symbol. (It's not like she's Roy Greenhilt 2.0 xD)
If a better and/or magical sword jumps on, I will replace my BS. It's the way of the road, it's a though life. But sometimes you have rabbit and potatos for dinner. Haha!

@Greenish: HAHA! Too true.
It's just my thing really. It has nothing to do with optimization, tho, only with "Uh. Freudian father complex with a large sword. I'm not sure I even want to contemplate the symbolism here. Her father's sword… " that feeling.
You know, facing inner demons and other, unspeakable, characteristics and all.

[Greenish]

Incidentally, where'd you find the character picture you used?

[Baveboi]

@Greenish:
Hehe. Google. xD
It was another character portrait on some forun of the wizards/GitP/Stuff. It's not permanent, I'm going to make my own when I get my tablet back. Maybe the rest of the party too. :smallsmile:

[Blackfang108]

I never liked those fightan magicians. They look too much like Ahneemay to me.
I am talking about something more old style fantasy.

That's why we suggest Warblade. Extremely similar to classical Western Swordfighting schools. Not to mention free online from the developer.

[JaronK]

The Warblade isn't anime. Iron Heart is all "be a good soldier and hack fools up." Stone Dragon is "Hit stuff really hard." Diamond Mind gets closer I guess, with its "through awareness and calm, you can strike faster" concept. The thing is, Warblade really is the weapon master class. And remember, there really were western fighting schools with funky named moves. However, since Europe basically lost all writing until just after guns were making it big in the field, a lot of that information was lost.

And the other Bastard Sword master class is, well, the Iajuitsu Master PrC. That one's truly anime.

But avoiding those two, you could go with Exotic Weapon Master, which gives you better damage when wielding a one handed exotic weapon in two hands. Use Shock Trooper for high damage, so she can charge and instant kill enemies. Is that western enough for you?

JaronK

[Baveboi]

I think you missplaced my disinterest on ToB and misunderstood the implication of my comentary. The reason why I shy at the possibility have nothing to do with neither ToB nor oriental related classes, it's just they don't fit this specific character.

It's true, I do find that the mundane is better left mundane or the magic would perish unfed, but it's only my opinion on the matter. Good characters don't need to be powerful, useful or kill many enemies, they need to do their role, whatever it is and by whatever mean they "can".
To be powerless against something is an important part of everyones life, it's an acceptable condition. One that not always indicates no power whatsoever.
People do learn it eventually, as did V.

But thank you for your imput. I greatly appreciate your opinion on the matter.

[JaronK]

Well, you asked about mechanical things you should know about. You're being given the options. The truth is, the mechanics that in play make you actually feel like a sword master (as opposed to some clown who just hopes to land a full attack before someone lands Glitterdust or some other crowd control spell and makes them worthless) are in ToB. At higher levels, that's necessary to actually be the main character in the story, as opposed to a mook. Vulnerability is one thing, being easily dispatchable to every enemy out there is another. Plus, it's nice to do more than just roll to beat AC every single time.

But let's see, other options... Strongarm Bracers would let you wield a larger sword. Snap Kick would let you throw in extra attacks along with your sword strikes. Using an Aptitude Keen Bastard Sword along with the Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick feats would let you set up combos, as every critical threat gives you an extra attack and every critical hit gives you another, thus allowing you to triple hit when you crit (potentially with an even longer combo, if you land another crit). Zhentarium Fighter 9 + Imperious Command would let you intimidate as a swift action, leaving the enemy cowering, and thus allowing you to easily take them down (plus it gives you SOMETHING to do besides slash slash slash all day).

JaronK

[true_shinken]

:smallconfused: I wasn't even particularly "sarcastic/acetic" there, so what do you mean?
In his defense, Greenish, you can be sarcastic whithout even trying. :smallbiggrin:



Using an Aptitude Keen Bastard Sword along with the Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick feats would let you set up combos

Oh, even you JaronK? That's such a ridiculous RAW loop that it hurts. It's like the martial version of infinite wishes. RAI is pretty obvious on this one.

[Hanuman]

Seems like you really just want to play a fighter, but:
A) Fighters are designed to by level 5-10 make any lvel 1-5 warrior NPC class look like a scrub.
B) Fighters do not progress evenly, you will not enjoy your invincible play experience when other swordsmen start getting powers to augment their abilities like Greater Mighty Wallop and Expansion and the like.
C) Hitting things with a moderately sized piece of metal only goes so far, eventually you realize that you can't fight a dragon with a metal toothpick most of the time. (I suggest somehow converting to touch attack with your sword somehow), having it drain neg levels is good too but at that point the damage seems fairly useless.

Now, if you want to enjoy a fighter you could take fighter up to 6 as that's when the alternative options end, and fighter has 2 amazing alt options which really save the class:

Shock Trooper
Dungeoncrasher

But as far as being unrivaled at swordplay? That's called BAB + attribute, if you want to look at it like skill. You can have weapon focus, ect. to boost it but exotic weapon master is a pretty terrible PrC as you can do most of what it can do as fluff and intimidate checks.

But yeah, good luck with the whole magic allergy thing, until a Fgt1/Soc1 truestrike/calledshot's your eye =<

[JaronK]

Oh, even you JaronK? That's such a ridiculous RAW loop that it hurts. It's like the martial version of infinite wishes. RAI is pretty obvious on this one.

Even me? I was the first to post about that trick, for an old TO competition! Except when we're talking about 17-20 criticals in melee, it's not going to do infinite attacks... or anything like it. Work out the probabilities. Within this scope, it's actually perfectly reasonable. It just gives a decent flurry of attacks relatively regularly. It's not even nearly as powerful as Shock Trooper. Remember, you're talking about a 1 in 5 chance of critically hitting, which gives you two extra attacks when you do. There's no way that's ever going infinite... and even the chances of getting more attacks than a TWF Monk are pretty darn low.

Seriously, do the math on this one. In this sort of context, it's just a reasonably good use of a few feats that might make the OP's character playable... maybe.

JaronK

[true_shinken]

Even me? I was the first to post about that trick, for an old TO competition!
Yeah, it's nice and dandy for TO, but it's not meant for practical optimization is it?


Seriously, do the math on this one. In this sort of context, it's just a reasonably good use of a few feats that might make the OP's character playable... maybe.

If you "play nice", even infinite Strenght Cancer Mage will only have Strenght 30.
But I kind of see your points. I could accept it in this context, as a DN.

[JaronK]

The thing is, the Cancer Mage who actually gets that disease will continue to get stronger, forever. That's not going to work.

But Aptitude weapons with Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick are only going to be broken if you combo them with some ability to make double attacks (like Splitting Great Crossbows) or have a ridiculous critical threat range (like Disciple of Dispaters with Kurkris for a 9-20 threat range). Without those elements in the character, it's not broken at all, nor can it ever be.

Since this player is using a single Bastard Sword and doesn't seem to want Disciple of Dispater, Aptitude + Lightning Mace + Roundabout Kick is a completely reasonable suggestion. Also, it might make the character a little more mechanically interesting, since pure melee types who only full attack and don't use ToB tend to get REALLY boring on the mechanical side after a while.

JaronK

[Greenish]

In his defense, Greenish, you can be sarcastic whithout even trying. :smallbiggrin:Hence the qualifier "particularly". :smallwink:

Weasel words are the future.

[Baveboi]

I again thank you guys, some suggestions are being very helpful, even if I do tend to disagree with melee characters. I love the feeling of wholeness with a character, the point he's complete. While spellcasters don't reach that point for me until close 20s I find fighter types to be very "complete".

I mean, you have your sword, your armor and a lot of guts, what more could ever hope for?
Monsters? Meh, I find defeating them very tiring even when I play casters. But to look at a spellcaster's eyes, five feet away, and smile fondly and say "I dare you to cast ONE single spell now" is like a whole bucket of fun.

Anyway, dungeoncrasher does look an interesting class. I will take it in consideration, with Shock Trooper and such. Thank you guys.

[JaronK]

But to look at a spellcaster's eyes, five feet away, and smile fondly and say "I dare you to cast ONE single spell now" is like a whole bucket of fun.

...and then he takes a 5' step back and casts Maze on you. Just to be insulting.


Anyway, dungeoncrasher does look an interesting class. I will take it in consideration, with Shock Trooper and such. Thank you guys.

If you go that route, consider becoming large (if your character concept can go with that) and taking the Knockback feat. It'll let you go nuts with the whole bashing thing. Also, if you want to do that whole "stand next to the caster and dare him to cast" plan, you'll need the Mage Slayer feat. Otherwise he just shrugs and makes a concentration check.

JaronK

[Leon]

Well not what i was expecting from the title.
I was guessing that Archpaladin Zousha had created a spin off from the current picture thread.

[Baveboi]

Well not what i was expecting from the title.
I was guessing that Archpaladin Zousha had created a spin off from the current picture thread.

Hahaha! The idea of a good title is to get the eye of the wanderer.