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View Full Version : how special is 'too special'? (character backgrounds)



big teej
2010-12-06, 05:47 PM
greetings playgrounders,

as many of you are probably getting sick of hearing, I'm creating an undead character,

specifically, a human knight/cleric with the bone template.

and within the next few days I intend to write the backstory for this character.

now in life, the character didn't worship wee jas (but he does now, being an undead abomination)

so part of the backstory is his transition as a worshipper..

I was curious, is it 'too much' to have an avatar of wee jas (or wee jas herself) appear in his backstory to inform him that she is the only remaining god who will accept his worship?

now for the record, this will have NO in game effect (unless the DM does something with it, which I doubt) I just thought it'd be kinda neat and different.

so is this "too" special? for a starting out backstory? the character will be somewhere between level 3 and 5 when I start playing him.

Katana_Geldar
2010-12-06, 05:59 PM
With backstory, what I think is best is have a few non-specific pointers and then talk to the DM to see how they work. The more detailed you are with it, the less he can work with you to put you in the story.

Have a few suggestions and be prepared to compromise.

Greenish
2010-12-06, 06:08 PM
now in life, the character didn't worship wee jas (but he does now, being an undead abomination)Major deities like Wee Jas would probably delegate such errants to their servants, but if the DM ok's an actual avatar it'll work too.

[Edit]: In regards to your backstory, how about if it wasn't a divine apparition at all? Your character was brought to unlife unwillingly by a necromancer whom you then killed (I gathered from your other posts). What if a Knight Vindicator (or something the like) of Wee Jas was tracking the necromancer too (since Jasites take dim view on reanimating unwilling targets), and you ran into him?

bloodtide
2010-12-06, 06:16 PM
That would be 'too special' for me.

I'd like to think that a god has better things to do then personally visit every person when needed.

And story wise it's always better to go with less.

In your case it could have been an old cleric of Wee(aka your Obi One) who told you the plot/story point, right before he died.

And I'd be fine with the 'little touch', the things I think most gods would do. Such as you drop a coin and it rolls over to the door of the temple of Wee, or you get a dream or vision. Your not 100% sure if it was real or not...but you think it is...

JonRG
2010-12-06, 06:23 PM
Maybe WJ just sent you a vision? Not much expenditure on her part, can have whoever the heck you want appear in it, and the other players won't get too jealous over anything that could *also* be caused by too much peyote. :smalltongue:

kyoryu
2010-12-06, 06:32 PM
I was curious, is it 'too much' to have an avatar of wee jas (or wee jas herself) appear in his backstory to inform him that she is the only remaining god who will accept his worship?


Depends on the game and the style of game. Talk to your DM. It would be waaaaaay too special for a game I ran, but might be right in line for another group.

(Of course, I'm one of those jerk DMs that think characters become special by what they do, rather than starting out special)

Mikeavelli
2010-12-06, 06:38 PM
what's wrong with the good old fashioned "Prophetic dream" or "Touched by divine knowledge?" An Avatar physically manifesting to tell someone something is a world-altering event with far-reaching consequences for the entire church of the diety being worshipped.

Visions, Dreams, and portents on the other hand are the bread and butter of this sort of thing. If you're undead, you probably don't sleep or dream at all, but divinities have a way of being able to ignore or override pesky little things like that. Perhaps it happened in the moment you were being turned undead.

SaintRidley
2010-12-06, 07:08 PM
You could even go with either of these:

Trying in vain to get a god to sponsor you, failing until you raise your head in supplication to Wee Jas, the last deity on your list (because you were silly and ordered it alphabetically).

or

Wee Jas sensing opportunity and sponsoring your spellcasting without telling you, so that you simply cast without knowing that your patron has changed. It becomes obvious something has changed when you try to cast one of your prepared domain spells and a different spell comes out, from one of the new domains she's granted you.

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-12-06, 07:32 PM
Honestly, the only possible answer here is, "ask your DM." Some DMs are fine with parties made up of the sons of gods and demons, cursed at birth and blessed by a choir of angels on the day they became an adult, and others want ordinary people who become extraordinary through their in-game adventures. Often it varies campaign by campaign. My current campaign has the son of a great general who controlled huge swaths of the world before being stopped by the power of Pelor himself, a mad warlock who made a pact with a powerful fey entity after his father was slain by an epic wizard, and an elf who is essentially a sleeper-cell for a group of drow, and the keystone for a drow invasion lead by Lolth herself.

In my next campaign, the same players will be playing a blacksmith, a tavern owner, and a musician.

Escheton
2010-12-06, 07:44 PM
BEHOLD THE METATRON - HERALD OF THE ALMIGHTY AND VOICE OF THE ONE TRUE GOD!

and take it from there...

true_shinken
2010-12-06, 07:48 PM
I think it's 'too special'. An avatar? Gee. Make it a prophet or something.

LibraryOgre
2010-12-06, 07:57 PM
An Avatar is a bit much, IMO. It's a bit more likely that you'd have a vision or a dream... still sent by Wee Jas, but more like an e-mail than a personal visit.

EDIT: Unless we're talking OMG high level here. If you're a world-level mover and shaker (15 and above), then Wee Jas may have put in a personal appearance.

big teej
2010-12-06, 09:35 PM
great replies all around, all were very helpful, but a few stuck out to me as needing responses (that said, EVERY response was very helpful, Teej is happeh:smallbiggrin:)


With backstory, what I think is best is have a few non-specific pointers and then talk to the DM to see how they work. The more detailed you are with it, the less he can work with you to put you in the story.

Have a few suggestions and be prepared to compromise.


I wasn't really that concerned with him working it in...but to be fair, I hadn't thought about that, and I have to get him to okay the whole "being dead" thing to begin with, so I'll make sure to run that by him as well.



Visions, Dreams, and portents on the other hand are the bread and butter of this sort of thing. If you're undead, you probably don't sleep or dream at all, but divinities have a way of being able to ignore or override pesky little things like that. Perhaps it happened in the moment you were being turned undead.

I actually really like this idea, as it fits with a bit of the concept I have in mind.

the backstory was going to basically be Vaul's retelling of his death. followed by his experiences in celestia, but after mere moments their his previous diety (I'm thinking I'm going to go with heironious) informs him (almost certainly by proxy, but who knows) that 'his work is not yet finished' and tell him that he must sleep for awhile.

so he sleeps
"moments" (several decades) later
he wakes up, but before he does, he could recieve the message from wee jas.

then BOOM back in the real world, gut the necromancer with my own two claws, put on my armour, and take up a quest to exterminate every last necromancer from the material plane.



so to be honest, I really like this idea the best, and this will likely be what I run by the DM....

time to go write a snippet for Lady Moreta's thread. :smallamused:

Zeofar
2010-12-07, 12:49 AM
I'd just like to add that you should talk to your DM about this regardless simply because the implications of the message, however one receives it.

As far as I recall, you intend your character to be a Lawful Good Knight/Cleric, and therefore must be within one step of the deity you worship. However, being undead does not explicitly bar one from worship of Heironeous or St. Cuthbert (Though Pelor is obviously out), and, furthermore, your mission seems more in line with Heironeous' virtues of honor, justice and combat and St. Cutbert's dogma of vengeance and retribution than Wee Jas' practice of organized, lawful necromancy (and in fact in direct opposition to it if you intend to kill -all- necromancers, not simply those who create undead in an irregular manner).

Furthermore, the "overcoming adversity" angle of Heironeous mentioned in Deities and Demigods only further aligns a now-undead-but-still-good knight with him. Why St. Cuthbert works doesn't need any further explanation, and the greatest argument against following him would be that you intend to deceive other people with regard to your actual nature. You could say that Wee Jas lied to you or somehow deceived you, but that doesn't really seem like the act of a Lawful god and would make more sense coming from Vecna trying using you as a pawn (and turn you evil, which makes sense coming from Vecna) and making an exception with regard to your alignment for that purpose.

To summarize, the fact is that your interpretation of what gods may be still open to your worship may not line up with your Dm's interpretation, and having a direct divine message coming to you in any manner makes the situation troublesome (and moreso if the DM treats deities outside core as existing, since there are more undead-centric ones out there if I recall correctly). I would advise that you instead make it personal (your character does not want to make his presence known to Heironeous in his current disgraceful form) or simply human error (Your character simply assumes that Heironeous will not accept his worship, you show yourself to a cleric of Heironeous in search of advice and but instead are chased off/fought, or a follower of Wee Jas/the necromancer that created you told you that you would not be accepted by Heironeous). That way, you won't have to worry about stretching the DM's view of the world at all, since it is hardly unlikely that one of the above might happen.

Rixx
2010-12-07, 02:27 AM
Whatever you do, clear all important details of your backstory with the GM first. Springing specialness on the GM is the worst thing you can do.

big teej
2010-12-07, 03:07 AM
I'd just like to add that you should talk to your DM about this regardless simply because the implications of the message, however one receives it.

.

I intend to




As far as I recall, you intend your character to be a Lawful Good Knight/Cleric, and therefore must be within one step of the deity you worship. However, being undead does not explicitly bar one from worship of Heironeous or St. Cuthbert (Though Pelor is obviously out), and, furthermore, your mission seems more in line with Heironeous' virtues of honor, justice and combat and St. Cutbert's dogma of vengeance and retribution than Wee Jas' practice of organized, lawful necromancy (and in fact in direct opposition to it if you intend to kill -all- necromancers, not simply those who create undead in an irregular manner).


alignment - you are correct, Vaul is Lawful Good
barring worship - I was unaware of this, I figured the whole 'being undead' thing would cause some deities to refuse my worship (apparently a much greater list than would be accurate)
heironious, st. cuthbert, and wee jas - I agree, I suppose the general goal would be much more in line with the former 2, and I must have misremembered the dogma of the latter (don't have my dieties and demigods in front of me)
so that too would work, and that would only necessitate a minor change in what I have so far.



I
To summarize, the fact is that your interpretation of what gods may be still open to your worship may not line up with your Dm's interpretation, and having a direct divine message coming to you in any manner makes the situation troublesome (and moreso if the DM treats deities outside core as existing, since there are more undead-centric ones out there if I recall correctly). I would advise that you instead make it personal (your character does not want to make his presence known to Heironeous in his current disgraceful form) or simply human error (Your character simply assumes that Heironeous will not accept his worship, you show yourself to a cleric of Heironeous in search of advice and but instead are chased off/fought, or a follower of Wee Jas/the necromancer that created you told you that you would not be accepted by Heironeous). That way, you won't have to worry about stretching the DM's view of the world at all, since it is hardly unlikely that one of the above might happen.

player vs dm interpretation - a valid point, however, I feel the DM will lean in my direction, as he's.... new, and I'm the group's main DM (however, the point is valid, and I'll make sure he's aware of the fact that he's in charge)
dieties outside core - anything not in books we have in hardcopy is out of bounds (we have dieties and demigods, + the BOVD + the DMG + races of stone, I think thats everything with dieties)

could you elaborate on what you mean about 'hiding his form' from heironious? (for the record, I'll never be able to spell that name right, I apologize :smalltongue: )



last. a question.
wee jas is Lawful Neutral correct?
sooo.... wouldn't she be IN favor of killing necromancers of say... Nerull?
you know, anyone using necromancy in the CE variety, as opposed to NE or something.

hamishspence
2010-12-07, 05:52 AM
Power of Faerun (FR 3.5 splatbook) has rules for clerics being able to have "dramatic divine apparitions"

So, you can have a "message from deity" appear, without actually being high level.

On what deity to choose- Tyr in Faerun (fairly similar to both Hieroneous and St Cuthbert) has been known to transform those of his followers who failed in life, into undead, granting them a second chance in death.

Pool of Radiance, a FR novel, has as one of the party members, a LG undead ex-paladin.

On Wee Jas- in Dragon Magazine, which goes into a lot of detail on her and her church, she dislikes the creation of sentient undead, and also dislikes it when members of her own people (the Suel) are made into mindless undead.

The Greyhawk Wiki covers Wee Jas in a little more detail than Deities and Demigods:

Wee Jas (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wee_Jas)

Strawberries
2010-12-07, 06:08 AM
I was going to say "just ask your DM", but it seems people already got that answer covered. :smallwink:
Another thing to consider is "ask your fellow players, too". What are the others thinking of playing? Could their characters be in conflict with yours? If so, are you all alright with inter party conflict? If not, can something in your or their background be adjusted so as to minimize this possible conflict? The DM has the final say, but the other players are important, too. Those are the people you're going to play with, after all.


Depends on the game and the style of game. Talk to your DM. It would be waaaaaay too special for a game I ran, but might be right in line for another group.

(Of course, I'm one of those jerk DMs that think characters become special by what they do, rather than starting out special)

It seems you're the DM for me. :smalltongue:
I recently came to the sad realization that I have an hard time making "special" characters. Mine are all ordinary people trying to go through life as best as they can. Yes, even my dryad. :smallwink: I don't know why, but it's a pattern with me.

hamishspence
2010-12-07, 06:16 AM
There's also a class below Avatars in power- Aspects. These are not directly connected to their deity- what an Aspect witnesses is not communicated back to the deity, and so on. They're like a much weaker version of it.

They were introduced in Miniatures Handbook- and tend to be middle-of-the-range in Challenge rating- 8-12, as I recall, is typical.

An encounter with an Aspect, could work as what gave him the idea to start following Wee Jas, if you go with that.

Zeofar
2010-12-07, 12:04 PM
could you elaborate on what you mean about 'hiding his form' from heironious?


Oh, that. It basically presumes that you're playing your character in such a way that he is not merely hiding himself in his armor for convenience, but because he sees his existence as a sub-human undead shameful and dishonorable. By that same note, although he cannot literally hide himself from view of Heironeous, he does not want to ask his former god for divine aid in his current form because he does not want to mar (in his eyes) his past worship of the god with the current aberrant existence, because he does not want to shame himself by willingly drawing attention to his state(being that Heironeous would automaticaly be aware that he was undead), or because he feels that even giving aid to such an abomination would lower Heironeous.



last. a question.
wee jas is Lawful Neutral correct?
sooo.... wouldn't she be IN favor of killing necromancers of say... Nerull?
you know, anyone using necromancy in the CE variety, as opposed to NE or something.

Yes, of course. But I simply mentioned it because you said that your character wanted to eradicate "every last necromancer from the material plane." Wee Jas would in fact be in favor of killing or punishing and all necromancers that created undead in an illegal manner (against local laws, against the will of the original body's owner, etc.) as well as their creations regardless of which god they follow, but certainly not a blanket destruction of necromancers, one of her greatest groups of followers.

valadil
2010-12-07, 12:18 PM
That's up to your GM. I'd allow it, unless I had specific plans already in motion for Wee Jas. If they don't allow it, downgrade to message from a servant, then to vision, then to dream, etc. I actually kind of like the idea of it being a dream that you believe in but could later doubt.

Tiki Snakes
2010-12-07, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I'd probably suggest you go with something like a vision or a visitation by a lesser aspect or so, but the best way probably is to not present it as fact.

As Far As You Know, you found yourself on a high mountaintop, at night, the world beneath you lost in clouds and mist. Wee Jas came and spoke to you upon the mountaintop, and yada yada yada. It's a touch of epic, but could just as easily have been the feverish imagination of a dying, or undying man or anything in between. Gives the DM stuff to play with if he wants to, without forcing him, and a little ambiguity is always good.

Zeofar
2010-12-07, 12:34 PM
I also agree that if you want to follow Wee Jas that a somewhat unclear dream/vision would be a good route. That way, it really isn't possible to say "that isn't true!" because it doesn't have to be. It puts the power in the DM's hands while still letting you get what you want.

big teej
2010-12-07, 01:14 PM
these are all excellent and very helpful answers...

unfortunately, my stomach is telling me it is time to eat, so I will have to respond to them later.

yay helpful answers!:smallredface:



EDIT:
greyhawk wiki

She is close to all lawful deities, for she favors Law above all things, and will work with deities such as Heironeous and Hextor as the need arises. Demons and other chaotic beings generally despise her for this reason, which makes her on-again, off-again romance with Norebo that much more unusual. She can summon lawful undead or dragons to do her will.



-emphasis added-

would it be to 'out there' an idea for heironious to 'hand off' my character to wee jas for the duration of his .... unlife?

because then I could simply cut out the whole 'avatar' thing and downplay it all the way to a vision I recieve somewhere between dying and undying.

is there a precedent for such a thing?

for the record, I very likely have a skewed view of how the dieties of DnD interact with their worshippers due to my rather limited reading of novels within dnd, but extensive reading on the outside.
for example, in David Eddings' writings, the gods are VERY close to their subjects (for the most part)
whilst in say... warhammer, the gods are incredibly distant (with the possible exception of the Chaos Gods)

hamishspence
2010-12-07, 01:48 PM
In Faerun, there is precedent- In Champions of Valor, one of the characters serves one deity (Helm) but his "true patron" is another deity (Gorm Gulthyn)- who has sanctioned this.

Drizzt in The Crystal Shard introduces himself as "a ranger humbly serving Gwaeron Windstrom, hero of the goddess Mielikki"

Gwaeron is a minor deity- and Drizzt's patron in Sojourn is Mielikki. So maybe, for a short period, he was serving Gwaeron on Mielikki's behalf?

Uncle Casw
2010-12-07, 02:30 PM
would it be to 'out there' an idea for heironious to 'hand off' my character to wee jas for the duration of his .... unlife?

I guess Heironious (sp?) would cut out any undead from the flock of his faithfuls. Tell me again, why the necromancer failed to bind you to his will?

And a note on the extreme lawfulness of Wee Jas: as far i know, unless you have some some extremely important mission that only you on earth (Oerth? :smallsmile:) can accomplish she would like to see you reduced to a bunch of ashes :smalleek:

Tryll
2010-12-07, 02:37 PM
I find the idea of starting out "undead" to be strange all by itself. Characters in my game all have to begin as living creatures - if they want to die, there will be plenty of in-game opportunities... <evil grin>

LibraryOgre
2010-12-07, 02:42 PM
I find the idea of starting out "undead" to be strange all by itself. Characters in my game all have to begin as living creatures - if they want to die, there will be plenty of in-game opportunities... <evil grin>

I don't find starting as undead to be nearly as weird as venerable creatures that are 1st level adventurers.

comicshorse
2010-12-07, 02:43 PM
If you're G.M. is fine with it, then its fine

kyoryu
2010-12-07, 02:44 PM
I don't find starting as undead to be nearly as weird as venerable creatures that are 1st level adventurers.

Sometimes I think the weirdest character of all, in terms of the least likely to be encountered, is the human fighter.

Codenpeg
2010-12-07, 02:56 PM
Ugh, this is like your 6th thread in the last week about your character. Why don't you just make one thread and stick to it.

Ceaon
2010-12-07, 03:07 PM
Well, to put your character into perspective: I once played Wee Jas herself (although stripped of her powers and captured in a mirror, becoming a sort of genie). The other players and the DM loved it, so I guess that wasn't "too special". Note: your character might still be "too special". Why? I think it all depends on three things:
1. What do the other players and the DM think of your character's specialness? How special are the other PCs?
2. Do you flaunt your specialness and expect special treatment all the time? Does your specialness influence the main plot directly?
3. Is your specialness overpowered in a mechanical sense?
If your answer to any of these is "yes", you may want to rethink.

Zombieboots
2010-12-07, 03:18 PM
My interpetations of Avatars:

- Avatars are generally reserved for when a God would like to be there themselves, but are unable for any number of reasons.

- Secondly avatars are the phyiscal embodiment of a God, they are there to do the grunt work with Nih-infiniete divine power. Resurrenting a soul can pretty much be done "remotely" espically for the Emerald Lady.

So unless you are some top notch divine, and for some reason need to have the extension of a god there by your side. A divine messager is probably just as good.

big teej
2010-12-07, 03:26 PM
In Faerun, there is precedent- In Champions of Valor, one of the characters serves one deity (Helm) but his "true patron" is another deity (Gorm Gulthyn)- who has sanctioned this.

Drizzt in The Crystal Shard introduces himself as "a ranger humbly serving Gwaeron Windstrom, hero of the goddess Mielikki"

Gwaeron is a minor deity- and Drizzt's patron in Sojourn is Mielikki. So maybe, for a short period, he was serving Gwaeron on Mielikki's behalf?

hoorah! precedence! (even if it is drizzt:smalltongue:)


I guess Heironious (sp?) would cut out any undead from the flock of his faithfuls. Tell me again, why the necromancer failed to bind you to his will?

And a note on the extreme lawfulness of Wee Jas: as far i know, unless you have some some extremely important mission that only you on earth (Oerth? :smallsmile:) can accomplish she would like to see you reduced to a bunch of ashes :smalleek:

That was my thinking.

the necromancer was .... new to the art, and thus succeeeded in raising me (I am a mobile, functioning skeletal warrior) but he screwed up the part of the spell that binds me to his will.

also... unless I'm (still) misremembering Wee Jas' dogma.... why would she want me reduced to ashes!?:smalleek::smallfrown:



I find the idea of starting out "undead" to be strange all by itself. Characters in my game all have to begin as living creatures - if they want to die, there will be plenty of in-game opportunities... <evil grin>

well, yea, there are, except that there arn't opportunites for me to accquire the bone template in our game.

and that would require the party KNOW i'm dead, which I want to be a secret (definitly IC, and as much OOC as possible)

furthermore, we don't have any casters capable of raising me as a skeleton. especially not a free willed skeleton with class levels.




If you're G.M. is fine with it, then its fine


precisely, unfortunately, it's exam week, and I have not had the opportunity to speak with him in person, and will not likely do so until next semester.

(except maybe via email)


I don't find starting as undead to be nearly as weird as venerable creatures that are 1st level adventurers.

+1, I personally don't think I'd let someone start the game as 'venerable' middle aged human? maybe

venerable elf? as a level 1 wizard? I think not....




Sometimes I think the weirdest character of all, in terms of the least likely to be encountered, is the human fighter.

how do you figure? I've played at least 3.:smallconfused:

hamishspence
2010-12-07, 03:45 PM
also... unless I'm (still) misremembering Wee Jas' dogma.... why would she want me reduced to ashes!?:smalleek::smallfrown:

She wouldn't- unless the undead was Suel.

From Core Beliefs: Wee Jas (Dragon 350 December 2006)


Her focus is on the spirits of the dead, not their bodies, and thus she tolerates necromancy- especially if the subject is willing (although she frowns on stealing lawfully buried bodies). Because she guards the souls of the dead, she is displeased when those spirits are involuntarily summoned back to the world and converted into undead (again, voluntary conversion into undead, bodied or bodiless, does not disturb her).

Her belief in the sanctity of death is so strong that her clergy are forbidden from raising the dead by any means without first consulting her (whether directly via commune or indirectly through a divine messenger). She frequently forbids the raising of neutral beings and usually forbids the raising of chaotic beings. A cleric who goes against her wishes on this might face a variety of punishments ranging from the loss of divine spells to a divine agent sent to set matters right.
....
Because her death and magic aspects are rather amoral, Wee Jas is considered neutral with tendencies toward evil. This is not because she wishes harm toward innocents, but more because of her stance that those who are exploited or powerless allow themselves to be so, and if some use the rule of law to better themselves at the expense of others, so be it. After all, the rules are there for everyone to use, and if you choose to do nothing about your situation it is no one's fault but your own.
....
A Mage's Role
....
Wee Jas does not appreciate the use of dead Suel spirits for creating undead, and any arcane spellcaster bent on creating undead should be very careful about what sort of spirit his spell draws to the Material Plane. In most cases, undead-creating spells (including animate dead) can be adjusted as they are cast to avoid contacting the remnant of a Suel spirit, and doing so does not alter their casting or effects in any way. A few spells, however, specifically draw on the soul that once inhabited the target body (often intended as a punishment to the dead person), and if that body is Suel then it draws a Suel spirit and angers Wee Jas in doing so.

Uncle Casw
2010-12-07, 03:48 PM
What if necromancer's spell wasn't flawed but the LawfulGoodness (lol?) in the soul of the character made it work poorly. Then, such 'heroic' act (even if largely inconscious) attracted the attection of Wee Jas (or whatever) that started to fuel your cleric powers.

As far i remember, WJ only allows undeads for "R&D" purposes. There something like "a follower of wee jas can pursue lichdom if he need more time to complete [random important stuff he was doing in life] and destroy himself once he get the thing done"


edit: that's stuff from WotC 3.5 splatbooks.
and funny link (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=578) on how wj's behavior changes between d&d editions :smalltongue:

BG
2010-12-07, 04:47 PM
Another thing you can always work with is what the character believes vs. what is actually happening. If you want, your character can think that Wee Jas is speaking directly to him, even if that's not the case.

I had an Orc Blackguard once who referred to himself as "First Chosen of Bane," and would talk about how Bane sent messengers to him. It wasn't true, but it's what the character believed, and so he'd see signs of Bane everywhere, even when there weren't any.

Although you need to be careful with not having this go too far towards insanity, because many people don't play insanity well, and many groups don't like to deal with insane members.

Dreadn4ught
2010-12-07, 04:56 PM
Making an undead character... wow. Cool.

You could make it so that a friend of your character, a priest of Wee Jas, informs you about WJ being the only god who will accept you. A divine appiration is probably a little too special.

Of course, it's pretty special that an undead has their free will at all. Only, say, vampires and liches have that ability. So you might be a special case, one that Wee Jas considers, as most free-thinking undead are pure evil.

I'm not sure. I don't go too deeply into backstory usually.

hamishspence
2010-12-07, 05:35 PM
Of course, it's pretty special that an undead has their free will at all. Only, say, vampires and liches have that ability. So you might be a special case, one that Wee Jas considers, as most free-thinking undead are pure evil.

Those are the classics- but D&D has a long history of interesting and exotic undead- some with a degree of smarts, free will, and unwillingness to conform to the "undead=evil" stereotype.

Revenants, for example (always Neutral) and the aforementioned undead paladin seeking atonement, in Pool of Radiance.

"Bone Creature" template is like Skeleton, but with full intelligence. I believe there was a "Skeletal Warrior" type of creature for a while in 2nd ed, that had a magical circlet, and may have been the prototype for this.

big teej
2010-12-07, 10:08 PM
Well, to put your character into perspective: I once played Wee Jas herself (although stripped of her powers and captured in a mirror, becoming a sort of genie). The other players and the DM loved it, so I guess that wasn't "too special". Note: your character might still be "too special". Why? I think it all depends on three things:
1. What do the other players and the DM think of your character's specialness? How special are the other PCs?
2. Do you flaunt your specialness and expect special treatment all the time? Does your specialness influence the main plot directly?
3. Is your specialness overpowered in a mechanical sense?
If your answer to any of these is "yes", you may want to rethink.

1. the other players (that I've told*) think its a very interesting concept, are eager to see it played. everyone else is as 'special' as a typical PC (I think?) I'm not out for special treatment, I just really liked this idea, and want to implement it in the least disruptive manner possible (to the point of giving up some of the template's bonuses if it comes to that)
2. I do not plan to flaunt the 'specialness' AT ALL, the idea is for NOBODY to EVER know I'm undead (granted, they will eventually, cause either I'll screw up, or somebody will force the issue. ) I do not expect any special treatment (outside of something I expect with every character, for the DM not to use his OOC knowledge to completely obliterate my character/'make it not fun.) and I do not intend for it to influence the main plot at all. (unless the DM does it, but that is certainly not my intent)
3. I honestly don't know about being 'overpowered'
I mean, I get undead immunities and +4 dex. and darkvision.
this is balanced out by the fact my fortitude save and hit points are always going to be lower. and the fact that half my party (at least 1, up to half) will try to kill me THE SECOND they find out I'm dead.

the rest of the party (as it stands at this posting) consists of (all level 3)
a Half-Orc Barbarian - this is the player who told me flat out "he would probably attack"
a gnome alchemist - told me his character wouldn't have a problem, depending upon how my character had acted thus far.
a halfling rogue - "what happened to your head? did it hurt?" so, not an issue

those would be the three players who know about the character, because I have faith in their ability to keep their IC and OOC knowledge seperate.

the rest of the party is
a "Lawful Good" cleric of the platinum dragon*
a true neutral halfling fighter
and the DM**


*we are searching for a new diety for this character because everyone at the table, including him, acknowledge he simply can't pull off Lawful or Good

**I plan to speak the DM, I just haven't had the opportunity to yet.


so I suppose my next question is.
does the undeadness overshadow the party? (please take into account the fact that I plan to downplay my undeadness as much as I can. so as to appear normal)

because I honestly don't know if undead immunities and the other things the template grant me overshadow the party.

Callista
2010-12-07, 10:42 PM
so part of the backstory is his transition as a worshipper..

I was curious, is it 'too much' to have an avatar of wee jas (or wee jas herself) appear in his backstory to inform him that she is the only remaining god who will accept his worship?Yes, because it's unrealistic. You shouldn't expect a god to need an avatar to send this message; in fact, she wouldn't need to get directly involved at all--a cleric of Wee Jas can serve the same purpose. The cleric would know her doctrine and know about other gods, and would be able to explain to your character why Wee Jas will accept you when others won't. If you want to involve the supernatural, a low-level character is more likely to receive subtler messages in the form of portentious "coincidental" events.

Regarding "specialness":
Try putting your character through a Mary Sue litmus test (http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm). "Mary Sue", in case you don't know, is a character who is too unrealistically powerful/perfect for the world she's in; the archetypcal 'Sue is female (the person who invented the term used a female parody character), but male characters are just as much at risk. The concept started in fan-fiction but can be applied to all sorts of storytelling, including RP. The problem with this kind of character isn't so much their power (though that's part of it) but the way they tend to force the fictional world to revolve around them, which is annoying to other role-players and will eventually become annoying to you as well.