Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

[monkman]

Construction MaterialAdamantine- This material is incredibly indestructible, The Half Adamantine Golem’s Strength increases by an additional +2 and its natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier.Further when a Half Adamantine Golem gains Damage Reduction at third level, it gains additional DR equal to its strength modifier. A Half Adamantine Golem is immune to spells that normally effect metals, as that their body is timeless and concepts such as Rust, and Heat Metal, do nothing to them.


Alchemical- This material is exceptionally toxic. However it seems to strengthen the Half Alchemical Golem’s Body. The Half Alchemical Golem's Strength improves by an extra +2 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Any creature that damages the Half Alchemical Golem suffers 1d4 acid damage per 4 HD the Half Alchemical Golem has.
Any creature in melee range?
Amorphion Golem- This material is constantly changing, ever reshaping itself. The Half Amorphion Golem may add a +2 bonus to any one of its ability scores. It may reassign this bonus 1/day, as a standard action. Further the Half-Amorphion Golem may alter its appearance as per the spell Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm) 1/day per 4 HD as a Full Round Action, caster level equal to its HD.

Artillery- This material is designed for effect combat mobility, the Half Artillery Golem may slow any fall it takes to 30 feet per round, and does not take falling damage while conscious. Upon Reaching 5 HD the Half Artillery Golem may levitate as if it had cast the spell of same name upon itself for a total number of rounds per day equal to its HD+ Charisma modifier. It does not suffer the normal attack penalties for this levitating.
Nice,Why no jetpack?:smallfrown:
Ash- This material is loose and easily airborne, creating quite a few problems for anyone standing near the Half Ash Golem. Any time the Half Ash Golem is damaged, it fills all squares adjacent to it with thick clouds of airborne Blistering Ash, causing a -2 penalty to Dexterity and vision based skill checks, attacks rolls, and Reflex Saves to all creatures within a square of airborne ash. Further, if the creature that did the damaging is in an adjacent square to the Half-Ash Golem, it suffers 1d4 points of fire damage per 4 HD the Half Ash Golem has. The Half-Sand Golem may also leave clouds of Ash behind it as part of a move action, filling any square moved through by the Half Ash Golem with this same airborne Ash. This ash dissipates three rounds after forming, and can be dissipated fast by wind effects. Further when a Half Ash Golem gains Damage Reduction at third level, it gains DR/ Adamantine and Bludgeoning.
Why Admanitine?I dont really think that it fits well here.
Assembly- This material is built of very small constructs that may be disassembled and reassembled at any time. As a move action the Half Assembly Golem may disassemble part of its Golem limb in order to produce multiple miniscule Assembly Golems that may form together to build larger creatures. This functions similarly to the Summon Monster spell of Caster Level equal to half the Half Assembly Golem’s HD, and it uses the following table. Like summon monster, a Half Assembly golem may summon 1d4-1 creatures of a lower tier than what it can currently summon, or 1d6+1 of any tier 2 or lower than it’s currently available one. A Half Assembly Golem may use this ability a number of times per day equal to its Wisdom modifier.

{table=head]Half Assembly Golem HD|Summoned Creatures
1|Tiny Animated Object (Golem Shaped)
3|Small Animated Object (Golem Shaped)
5| Medium Animated Object (Golem Shaped)
7|Tiny Assembly Golem or Large Animated Object (Golem Shaped)
9|Small Assembly Golem
11|Huge Animated Object (Golem Shaped)
13|Medium Assembly Golem
15|Gargantuan Animated Object (Golem Shaped)
17|Large Assembly Golem[/table]
The Assembly Golem
{table=head]Block|Large Assembly Golem|Medium Assembly Golem|Small Assembly Golem|Tiny Assembly Golem
Hit Dice:|11d10 (61 HP)| 5d10 (28 HP)| 3d10 (17 HP)| 2d10 (11 HP)
Initiative:| -1| 0| +1| +2
Speed:| 20ft|20ft|20ft|20ft
Armor Class:|26 (-1 size, -1 Dex, + 18 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 26|22 (+12 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 22|17 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 16|15 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +1 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple:|+8/+21|+6/+11|+4/+3|+2/-5
Attack:|Slam +16 melee (2d10+9)|Slam +11 melee (2d8+5)|Slam +8 melee (2d6+3)|Slam +5 melee (1d10+1)
Full Attack:|2 Slams +16 melee (2d10+9)|2 Slams +11 melee (2d8+5)|2 Slams +8 melee (2d6+3)|2 Slams +5 melee (1d10+1)
Space/Reach:|10ft/10ft|5ft/5ft|5ft/5ft|2.5ft/0ft
Special Attacks:|Golem Assembly, Golem Disassembly |Golem Assembly, Golem Disassembly|Golem Assembly, Golem Disassembly|Golem Assembly, Golem Disassembly
Special Qualities:|Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine, darkvision 60ft, immunity to magic, low-light vision, Collective Assembly Golem Awareness|Construct traits, damage reduction 7/adamantine, darkvision 60ft, immunity to magic, low-light vision, Collective Assembly Golem Awareness|Construct traits, damage reduction 4/adamantine, darkvision 60ft, immunity to magic, low-light vision, Collective Assembly Golem Awareness|Construct traits, damage reduction 2/adamantine, darkvision 60ft, immunity to magic, low-light vision, Collective Assembly Golem Awareness
Saves:|Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +4|Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2|Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +1|Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +1
Abilities:|Str 28, Dex 8, Con -, Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1|Str 20, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1|Str 16, Dex 12, Con -, Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1|Str 12, Dex 14, Con -, Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills:|-|-|-|-
Feats:|-|-|-|-
Environment:|Any|Any|Any|Any
Organization:|Solitary or gang (2-4)|Solitary to gang (3-5)| trios or gang (4-8)|trios or mob (4-16)
Challenge Rating:|9|6|4|3
Treasure:|None|None|None|None
Advancement:|-|-|-|-
Level Adjustment|-|-|-|-[/table]
Nice,I like it.Though it might be strange to get a large golem from a medium sized half golem
Battleglory- this material is built with the bones, weapons, armor, blood, and palpable stubbornness of the fallen warriors of Ysgard. The Half Battleglory Golem’s strength improves by an extra +2 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Further the Half Battleglory Golem is treated as having the Die Hard feat, and its downward limit of Hp is increased by its HD. For a successful Half Battleglory golem its Death Threshold becomes -X (X=10+the Half Battleglory Golem’s HD), for a Failed Half Battleglory Golem it becomes -Y (Y=The Half Battleglory Golem’s HD)
It's Okay but it aint to special.
Birthday-Cake- This material comes with alchemical candles that grow naturally from the cake-like arm, the Half Birthday-Cake Golem gains a number of candles equal to half its HD. The Half Birthday-Cake Golem gains fast healing to the number of candles it has lit. These candles are particularly hard to put out. A character can blow out a Half Birthday-Cake Golem’s candles as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The character makes a touch attack, and if successful, the character can blow out a number of candles equal to 1d20 + his Constitution modifier. A gust of wind works like a ranged attempt to blow out a birthday Golem’s candles, and thus requires a ranged touch attack. A gust of wind blows out 1d20+Primary casting ability score candles. As a swift action, a Half Birthday-Cake Golem can relight 1d6 candles.
If all of the Birthday-Cake Golem’s candles are lit, it may extinguish them all as a swift action to grant a single targeted creature the benefits of ‘Heroes’ Feast’ caster level equal to its HD.
I think a little light spell would be required.I also think that you should limit how many times you can use *heroes'feast*

Blood- This material is very strong but demands constant upkeep or else it becomes a hindrance. The character's strength score improves by an extra +4 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier, further, it can detect any creature within a 30 feet per HD range that has been injured or is actively bleeding, as if by the Scent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent)special quality. The Blood Golem must consume an amount of blood equal to the water it requires each day, every day the Half Blood Golem does not consume such blood it must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+number of days since its Last Feeding) or grow weak. It loses 1 points of Strength each day it fails this save. It takes 1 minute of interrupted work with proper tools (cost 50 GP, not expended by this) and the body of a recently slain creature with blood (Which is consumed in this process, each creature offers a total amount of repairs equal to half its constitution score), and a successful heal, profession, or craft check the appropriate type with DC (18) to remove each point of Strength penalty. A Restoration spell will automatically recover the Strength damage and will Strength loss for 24 hours. The subject can repair itself but it takes double time. There's no penalty for failing these repair checks.
Would things than sustain the creature without water work for the blood?
Brain- This material resonates with psionic energy. The Half Brain Golem gains a deflection bonus to armor class equal to its Wisdom modifier, further it gains two additional power points per HD.
Maybe allow it to get Some Psysic powers,Look at the Phrenic creature.
Brass This material greatly improves the olfactory capabilities of the Half Brass Golem. The Half Brass Golem gains the Scent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent) ability and gains a bonus on Survival checks (Including those made in Tracking) equal to its HD, it may make survival checks in the place of intelligence checks when attempting to navigate labyrinths and mazes, including those created by the Maze (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/maze.htm) spell.
Real boring and weak compared to the other ones.Maybe the spell ''Maze" or something like that.
Butterscotch-Pudding- This material is extremely sticky making the subject a great walking mess. Any weapon that deals damage to a Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem becomes stuck to its skin, unless the wielder succeeds on a DC (10+1/2 The Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem’s HD + Strength modifier(con would be better) ) Reflex save. The weapon may be retrieved with a successful disarm check which the Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem receives a racial bonus to equal to half its HD. A Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem can spend a standard action to cover over a single weapon per round and hide it within its Limb, however the Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem may only have one item hidden within its limb at any given time. This item can only be retrieved if the Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem is unconscious and requires a Disarm check as if the Half Butterscotch-Pudding Golem is taking 10.

Cadaver-Collector- This material is built with fierce steel and cruel spikes, the Half Cadaver-Collector Golem is treated as having armor spikes of a creature one size larger than it is for all intents and purposes. It is naturally proficient with these armor spikes, further, the Half Cadaver-Collector Golem is considered a quadruped for carrying capacities.
It gains spikes right?
Caltrop- This spiky material is constantly falling apart, as such any square moved through by a Half Caltrop Golem is left covered in caltrops (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsandservices.htm). These caltrops attack roll is equal to the Half Caltrop Golem’s attack roll, without any size bonuses or penalties. These caltrops deal 1d4 damage per 4 HD the Half Caltrop Golem has. The DC Heal check for these caltrops’ speed reduction is 10+1/2 The Half Caltrop Golem’s HD+ Strength Modifier. These disappear three rounds after forming. Further the Half Caltrop Golem is treated as having armor spikes for all intents and purposes. It is naturally proficient with these armor spikes.

Calzone- This material is exceptionally delicious, but always just a little too hot to bite into. Any time the Half Calzone Golem is damaged, it makes a splash attack that deals 1d4 fire damage per 4 HD it has. A Successful reflex save halves this damage to any creature except one that directly did the damaging in the first place. Further the cheese within a Half Calzone Golem is particularly sticky, any weapon that deals damage to a Half Calzone Golem becomes stuck to its skin, unless the wielder succeeds on a DC 10+1/2 The Calzone Golem’s HD + Strength reflex save. The weapon may be retrieved with a successful disarm check.
Melee creature right?
Carver- This material is intricately deft but requires constant maintenance or it may become a hindrance. The Half Carver Golem’s Dexterity improves by +4 and its bonus to natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Further the Half Carver Golem gains a racial bonus on craft or profession checks involving woodworking or tree falling equal to its HD. However every time the Half Carver Golem takes Bludgeoning or Cold damage it must make a Fortitude save DC (10+ damage dealt) or it suffers a -1 penalty to Dexterity. Further damage taken increases this penalty by an extra -1 to Dexterity for every failed fortitude save. It takes 1 minute of interrupted work with proper tools (Which cost 50 GP, and are not expended by this) and a successful Craft (Cutlery) or other appropriate check (DC 18) to remove each point of Dexterity penalty. The Half Carver Golem can repair itself but it takes double time. There's no penalty for failing these profession checks.

Chain- This material is loose and dangly, but also very effective for defending against ranged attacks. A Half Chain Golem’s natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier, and a Half chain Golem gains it gains DR/- against all ranged attacks equal to its Strength Modifier. (At third level this is applied after its DR/Adamantine)

Chocolate- This material is tantalizingly aromatic to any creature that gets too close to the Half Chocolate Golem. Any creature within a range of 10 feet plus an extra 10 feet for every 4 HD the Half Chocolate Golem possesses must make a will save DC (10+1/2 The Half Chocolate Golem’s HD+ Wisdom Modifier) or behave Confusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/confusion.htm)Confused[/url] for a number of rounds equal to the Half Chocolate Golem’s HD. A creature that succeeds on its save cannot be effected again by this ability. This is a mind-effecting affect that is scent dependent. (As such creatures who cannot smell are immune, and creatures with the Scent quality suffer a -4 circumstance penalty to their will save. Likewise Gnomes always suffer a -2 racial penalty to this will save.)

Clay- This material gives extra momentum to the Half Clay Golem. After it has engaged in at least one round of combat the Half Clay Golem can act as if it were under the effects of Haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm). Activating this ability is a free-action, and lasts 1 round per HD and can be used once per day plus an extra use for every 4 HD the Half Clay Golem has. In addition, when the Half Clay Golem gains Damage Reduction at 2nd level, it gains DR Adamantine and Bludgeoning.

Coral- This material has impressive self-preservation properties. The subject gains fast healing equal to half its HD, further a Half Coral Golem’s jagged bone like structure grates against creatures it grapples automatically dealing damage equal to its slam natural attack, this is Slashing damage. However this material is very water dependent and A Half Coral Golem must immerse its entire body in water at least once every week or suffer ill effects. After a week has passed, the Half Coral Golem must make a Constitution check every day thereafter (DC 10+ 1 per additional day) or take 1 point of Strength damage. Once a Half Coral Golem immerses its body in water, it regains 1d4 points of Strength per hour it remains immersed.

Demon-flesh- This material is hewn from the bodies of the Flying terrors that hail from the Abyss. The Half Demon-Flesh Golem never suffers from falling damage and falls at a rate of 20 feet per round, even while unconscious its grafted wings snap open slowing its fall. Upon reaching 5 HD it gains the ability to glide 20 feet in any direction for every 10 feet it falls, its maneuverability is poor. Even if its maneuverability is improved to perfect, it cannot hover while gliding. Further the Half Demon Flesh Golem gains Darkvision 60 feet, this Darkvision works even in magical darkness.

Dragon-flesh- This material is exceptionally sensible to vibrations. The Half Dragon-flesh Golem gains Blindsight with a range of 10 feet plus an extra 10 feet for every 4 HD it has.

Fang- This material is highly natural, and has ties to the forces of nature. The Half Fang Golem gains a +2 bonus to wisdom, and may be treated as an animal, fey, or its normal type (whichever benefits it the most) for the purposes of spells cast on it. (This does not overcome a Construct’s immunity, or an Undead’s vulnerability, to cure spells.) Further the Half Fang Golem is treated as having armor spikes for all intents and purposes. It is naturally proficient with these armor spikes.

Fewmet- This material is extremely fertile in magical energy, but it is also most foul, The Half Fewmet Golem effectively gains an additional level, for purposes of Caster Level, Spells Known, and Ability to cast spells per day as if it had gained a level in any arcane casting class it had access to before taking its First level of Half Fewmet Golem, if it had more than one Arcane casting class before taking its First level of Half Fewmet Golem, it must select one to gain this benefit. If the Half Fewmet Golem did not have an Arcane Caster class before, or if it does not wish to increase said casting class, it gains this benefit as for a 1rst level Sorcerer. It only gains this increase at first level. Any creature successfully making a bite attack on the Half Fewmet Golem must pass a DC (10+1/2 The Half Fewmet Golem’s HD + Constitution Modifier) fortitude save, or suffer from the nauseated status for 1d4+1 rounds, even on a successful save they are sickened for 1 round.

Flesh- This material is heavy, and uncannily powerful, the Half Flesh Golem’s slam improves, it now deals 2d6+1.5 Strength Modifier damage (for a medium creature), further its critical is x3 rather than the usual x2. Further, the Half Flesh Golem may spend an hour with a dead creature to rob its flesh, to repair its body, recovering hp equal to 5 per HD the dead creature had. Because their bodies are whipstitched together, the Half Flesh Golem may be affected by skills such as Craft (Sewing) or Profession (Seamstress) as though they were the Heal skill.

Force- This material is naturally enigmatic, The Half Force Golem gains a deflection bonus to armor class equal to its Wisdom modifier, further it gains a bonus on bull-rush checks (including opposed strength checks) equal to its HD.

Gear – This material was deftly put in motion by the forces of Law itself, adamantine, Mithral, Silver and Marble make up gears, cogs, sprockets, and whirligigs that twist and turn within its complicated construction. The Half Gear Golem finds itself functioning at maximum efficiency, requiring half as much sleep or meditation each night, even to prepare spells, half as much food/water, and half as much air as other creatures (It may hold its breath twice as long as it could before.) Further it gains a +2 bonus to Dexterity. If the Half Gear Golem becomes a construct through the danger, this clockwork efficiency goes to its mind, granting it a +2 bonus to Wisdom. Further, the Half Gear Golem may make repairs on other Constructs without a craft check or tools, it effectively gains a Repair spell of equal level to half its HD usable a number of times per day equal to its wisdom modifier.

Gloom- This material is wrought of the very emotional ambiance of the lower planes, the sheer force of Evil and Wickedness override any auras the Half Gloom Golem would normally project. Any divination power that reveals alignment reveals only Evil about the Half Gloom Golem. All spells and effects that affect creatures based on alignment treat the Half Gloom Golem as if it were Evil or its own alignment, whichever would be better for the Half Gloom Golem. Further the Half Gloom golem radiates a terrible sadness, any creature within 5 feet per HD of the Half Gloom must make a DC (10+1/2 the Half Gloom Golem’s HD+ Wisdom Modifier) will save or suffer -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks and weapon damage rolls until it leaves this area. This is a mind-affecting Compulsion.

Grave-dirt- This material is unnaturally perverse, and tied directly to the necromantic energies that can be found within defiled crypts. As a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity, the Half Grave-Dirt Golem may vomit out an Undead creature as per the Summon Monster spell of level equal to half the Half Grave-Dirt Golem’s HD, except it uses the following table. A Half Grave-Dirt Golem may use this ability a number of times per day equal to its Wisdom modifier. Treat the Half Grave-Dirt Golem’s HD as the Caster Level. This is a supernatural ability.

{table=head]Spell|Undead
Summon Monster I| Any Small 1 HD Creature Zombie, Any Medium 1 HD Creature Skeleton
Summon Monster II| Any Large 3 HD Creature Zombie, Any Large Skeleton of up to 5 HD.
Summon Monster III|Ghoul, Any Large Skeleton of up to 7 HD, Any Large 4 HD Creature Zombie
Summon Monster IV| Huge Skeleton of up to 9 HD, Allip, Ghast, Any 7 HD Creature Zombie
Summon Monster V| Skeleton of up to 11 HD any size, Mummy, Shadow, Vampire Spawn, Wight
Summon Monster VI| Skeleton of up to 12 HD any size, Any 8 HD Creature Zombie of any size, Vampire (L.5 Human Fighter)
Summon Monster VII| Skeleton of up to 14 HD any size, Any Creature Zombie of any size, Ghost (L.5 Human Fighter),
Summon Monster VIII| Skeleton of up to 17 HD any size.
Summon Monster IX| Skeleton of Any Size. [/table]
Zombie’s HD are doubled, so a 3 HD Creature Zombie will have 6 HD.

Hangman- This material has impressive self-preservation properties but requires constant maintenance. The subject gains fast healing equal to half its HD. Further the Half Hangman Golem gains a racial bonus to Climb, Use Rope, Profession (Sailor) and Profession (Hangman) checks equal to half its HD. However every time the Half Hangman Golem takes slashing or fire damage it must make a Fort save DC (10+ damage dealt) or it takes a -1 penalty to Dexterity. Further damage taken increases this penalty by an extra -1 to Dexterity for every failed save. It takes 1 minute of interrupted work with proper tools (cost 50 GP, not expended by this) and a successfully profession or craft check the appropriate type with DC (18) to remove each point of Dexterity penalty. The Half Hangman Golem can repair itself but it takes double time. There's no penalty for failing these repair checks. A repair spell of any level instantly recovers an equal amount of Dexterity damage to the Hp damage it recovers.

Hellfire- This material is wrought from the very fires of the seven hells, The Half Hellfire Golem's Dexterity improves by an extra +2 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Any creature that damages the Half hellfire Golem suffers 1d4 fire damage per 4 HD the Half Hellfire Golem has.

Homunculus – This material is often made from clay and the blood of the very person who is to receive the Limb. A Half Homunculus Golem never fails their The Danger will save unless the participant wills it do so, further the Homunculus limb has almost a secondary awareness to it, granting the subject a +2 bonus to Dexterity.

Ice- This material is mined from the eternal mountain that holds ancient evils deep within its ice. The Half Ice Golem's Strength improves by an extra +2 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Any creature that damages with a melee attack the Half Ice Golem suffers 1d4 cold backlash damage per 4 HD the Half Ice Golem has.

Inevitable- This material is the flesh of Law itself, steal, ivory, brass and marble stolen from those who exist to maintain Order. The sheer force of Order and Law override any auras the Half Inevitable Golem would normally project. Any divination power that reveals alignment reveals only Lawful about the Half Inevitable Golem. All spells and effects that affect creatures based on alignment treat the Half Inevitable Golem as if it were Lawful or its own alignment, whichever would be better for the Half Inevitable Golem. The natural abortion of deceit runs hot within the inevitable limb, causing a tangible pain in the subject that assists with dealing with such trickery. The Half Inevitable Golem receives a racial bonus on all checks that it makes opposed by a bluff check.

Inquisition- This material is exceptionally cruel, and capable of silencing the cries of its opponents. Once per day per 2 HD the Half Inquisition Golem has the Half Inquisition Golem may use Silence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm) center on itself as a SLA, caster level equal to its HD. Will save DC equal to 10+Half the Half Inquisition Golem’s HD + Wisdom Modifier. Further, as a swift action the Half Inquisition Golem may equip any tool found inside Healing kit, or that may be particularly vicious, granting the Half Inquisition Golem a racial bonus to Heal and Intimidate checks equal to half its HD.

Iron- This material is incredibly strong but demands constant maintenance or it may become a hindrance. The Half Iron Golem’s Strength improves by +4 and its bonus to natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Further the Half Iron Golem gains a racial stability bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped equal to half its HD. However every time the Half Iron Golem takes Bludgeoning or Cold damage it must make a Fortitude save DC (10+ damage dealt) or it suffers a -1 penalty to Strength. Further damage taken increases this penalty by an extra -1 to Strength for every failed fortitude save. It takes 1 minute of interrupted work with proper tools (Which cost 50 GP, and are not expended by this) and a successful profession (Blacksmith) or other appropriate check (DC 18) to remove each point of Strength penalty. The Half Iron Golem can repair itself but it takes double time. There's no penalty for failing these profession checks.

Junk- This material gains its strength from already being damaged and destroyed refuse, A Half Junk Golem is immune to spells that normally effect metals or other specific materials, as that that their materials are not depended on any specific make-up, further the Half Junk Golem suffers half damage from any spell that directly damages constructs or objects.

Juggernaught- This material is made for constant battle, The Half Juggernaught Golem gains fast healing equal to half its HD, as well as natural armor equal its full constitution modifier. Further the Half Juggernaught Golem is treated as having the Die Hard feat, and its downward limit of Hp is increased by its HD. For a successful Half Juggernaught golem its Death Threshold becomes - (10+the Half Juggernaught Golem’s HD), for a Failed Half Juggernaught Golem it becomes - (The Half Juggernaught Golem’s HD)

Magmacore- This material is a mix of metal, stone, and molten earth, and is particularly difficult to contain, as such any square moved through by a Half Magmacore Golem is left covered in molten earth. These squares of Molten earth are considered difficult terrain, and slow land movement speeds as if it were two squares. Further any creature entering or standing in a square of molten earth suffers 1d4 points of fire damage per 4 HD the Half Magmacore Golem has. These squares of molten earth dissolve and cool three rounds after forming. Further the Half Magmacore Golem gains a bonus to natural armor class equal to its full constitution modifier.

Mindstrike- This material is wrought of boiling blood, and the screaming manias derived from the pandemonium. The sheer force of Madness and Chaos override any auras the Subject projects. Any divination power that reveals alignment reveals only Chaos about the Half Mindstrike Golem. All spells and effects that affect creatures based on alignment treat the Half Mindstrike Golem as if it were Chaotic or its own alignment, whichever would be better for the Half Mindstrike Golem. The madness and continuing shrieks that echo in the Half Mindstrike Golem’s head renders it immune to all moral, fear, and confusion effects.

Mud- This simple material is gooey and somehow slippery at the same time, as such any square moved through by a Half Mud Golem is left covered in Sticky-slippery Mud. This mud entangles any creatures that walk into its space, any such creature must make a balance check DC (10+1/2 the Half Mud Golem’s HD+Strength modifier) or fall prone, directly after which, weather successful or not, the creature must make a Reflex save of equal DC or be glued in place. A strength check of equal DC breaks the creature free. This mud lasts for 3d4 rounds. Further the Half Mud Golem gains a racial bonus on all disarm checks equal to half its HD.

Mithral- This material is uncannily light and durable. After it has engaged at least in one round of combat the Half Mithral Golem can act as if it were under the effects of haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm). Activating this ability is a free-action, and lasts 1 round per HD and can be used once per day plus an extra use for every 4 HD the half Mithral Golem has. In addition the Half Mithral Golem gains a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and all of its base speeds increase by 10 feet.

Nimblewright- This material is uncannily light and durable. After it has engaged at least in one round of combat the Half Nimblewright Golem can act as if it were under the effects of haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm). Activating this ability is a free-action, and lasts 1 round per HD and can be used once per day plus an extra use for every 4 HD the half Nimblewright Golem has. In addition the Half Nimblewright’s slam attack is replaced with a ‘rapier-hand’ attack, which functions much like a monk’s unarmed attack in that it is both a natural weapon and a light manufactured weapon. This attack deals 1d8 piercing damage, and has critical threat range of 18-20/x2.

Outer- This material is made from metals from planes unknown by even the wisest of wizards. The Half Outer Golem’s natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier and when a Half Outer Golem gains Damage Reduction at third level, it gains additional DR equal to its Strength modifier. Further the Half Outer Golem gains a bonus equal to its HD to all saves against divination spells, clairsentience powers, and all teleportation effects.

Peanut-Butter- This Material is different depending upon the Brand of the Peanut-Butter Golemaic graft, the Half Peanut-Butter Golem gains a one of the following material traits at first level, this decision may not be changed after first level.


Jif: After it has engaged at least in one round of combat the Half Jif Peanut-Butter Golem can act as if it were under the effects of haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm). Activating this ability is a free-action, and lasts 1 round per HD and can be used once per day plus an extra use for every 4 HD the half Jiff Peanut-Butter Golem has. In addition the Half Jif Peanut-Butter Golem gains a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and all of its base speeds increase by 10 feet.

Peter Pan: The Half Peter Pan Peanut-Butter Golem is continuously affected as if by Feather Fall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/featherfall.htm) spell. Further it may fly for a number of rounds per day equal to its HD at a speed of 60 feet with average maneuverability. These rounds may be used all at once or interspersed across the day.

Plumpy'nut: Once per day the Half Plumpy'nut Peanut-Butter Golem may increase in size by one size category as the Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargeperson.htm) spell, treat the Half Plumpy'nut Peanut-Butter Golem’s HD as caster level.

Reese’s: There's no one way to attack a Half Reese’s Peanut-Butter Golem. It gains immunity to either one damage type (Slashing, Bludgeoning, Piercing, Fire, Acid, Electricity ect.) or one Material (Silver, Adamantine, Cold Iron, Ect.) type, chosen by the last attack to damage it before it's turn.

Skippy: The Half Skippy Peanut-Butter Golem moves erratically so that in any round it moves more than five feet all attacks against it are assessed a 20% miss-chance. This is not the same as concealment. It also gains a racial bonus to jump checks equal to its HD.

Adam’s: The Half Adam’s Peanut-Butter Golem is exceptionally good for the Half Adam’s Peanut Butter Golem’s health, but requires constant restirring. The Half Adam’s Peanut-Butter Golem’s Constitution improves by an extra +4 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Further the Half Adam’s Peanut-Butter Golem gains a bonus on escape artist checks equal to its HD. However every day it must make a Fortitude save (DC 15+number of days since maintenance) or start to separate. It loses 1 point of Constitution each day it fails this save. It takes 1 minute of interrupted work with proper tools (cost 50 GP, not expended by this) and a successful profession or craft check the appropriate type with DC (18) to remove each point of Constitution penalty. A purify food and drink spell will automatically recover the Constitution damage and will prevent separation for 24 hours. The subject can repair itself but it takes double time. There's no penalty for failing these repair checks.

Perfector- This material is gathered in peaceful planes and is designed to resonate tranquility. Any Humanoid or Outsider type creature within a range of 5 feet plus an extra 5 feet for every 4 HD the Half Perfector Golem possesses must make a will save DC (10+1/2 The Half Perfector Golem’s HD+ Wisdom Modifier) or be effected as if by a Calm Emotions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/calmEmotions.htm) effect, Caster level equal to the Half Perfector Golem’s HD. Further, upon reaching 4 HD the Half Perfector Golem may use Remove Disease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeDisease.htm) as a spell like ability 1/week per 4 HD it possesses.

Piñata- This material is filled with wonderful delicious candies. The Half Piñata Golem gains fast healing equal to half its HD, however it may willing stop this fast healing for 1 round in order to produce a handful of candy. This functions as a Goodberry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/goodberry.htm) spell of Caster Level equal to the Half Piñata Golem’s HD, except it requires no material component, and produces a number of ‘good-candies’ equal to its constitution modifier. It may use this ability a number of times per day equal to its HD.

Plague- This grisly material is the monkey-stitched result of a recent outbreak of disease, various parts of sickly corpses are unceremoniously bound to create this limb. The Half Plague Golem gains racial bonus on saves against all diseases, including supernatural diseases, equal to its HD. If it defeats any disease by natural means, including having aid from a heal check, the Half Plague Golem becomes immune to that disease, any becomes a carrier of said disease but has no means to spread them (yet). Further because their bodies are whipstitched together, the Half Plague Golem may be affected by skills such as Craft (Sewing) or Profession (Seamstress) as though they were the Heal skill.

Prismatic- This material is constructed out of a mixture of energy types, allowing the Half Prismatic Golem may change the energy that heals it via ‘Prototype’ once every 24 hours, This process requires 10 minutes of uninterrupted concentration. Further the Half Prismatic Golem gains a +2 to Wisdom.

Replicant- This material is naturally simple, and quickly cobbled together. The Half Replicant Golem’s Strength improves by an extra +2 and its Natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Further, as a swift action the Half Replicant Golem may equip any tool that may be used in the creation of golems’ bodies, granting the Half Replicant Golem a racial bonus to all Craft checks equal to half its HD.

Rubber-Chicken- This material is strangely bouncy and crafted of odd alchemical substances. The Half Rubber-Chicken Golem gains immunity to crushing and falling damage, and gains a bonus on swim checks to remain afloat or to travel towards the surface of the water equal to its HD. In addition, when the Half Rubber-Chicken Golem gains Damage Reduction at 2nd level, it gains DR Adamantine and Piercing.

Sand- This material is loose and easily airborne, creating quite a few problems for anyone standing near the Half-Sand Golem. Any time the Half Sand Golem is damaged, it fills all squares adjacent to it with thick clouds of airborne sand, causing a -4 penalty to Dexterity and Vision based skill checks, attacks rolls, and Reflex Saves to all creatures within a square of airborne sand. Further, if the creature that did the damaging is in an adjacent square to the Half-Sand Golem, it must make a Reflex save DC (10+1/2 The Half Sand Golem’s HD+Strength Modifier) or be blinded for as long as the Sand Cloud lasts. The Half-Sand Golem may also leave clouds of sand behind it as part of a move action, filling any square moved through by the Half Sand Golem with this same airborne sand. This sand dissipates three rounds after forming, and can be dissipated fast by wind effects. Further when a Half Sand Golem gains Damage Reduction at third level, it gains DR/ Adamantine and Bludgeoning.

Sentinel of Mithardir- This material is forged from the Ire of the Storm gods, The Half Sentinel of Mithardir Golem's Dexterity improves by an extra +2 and its Natural Armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Any creature that damages the Half Sentinel of Mithardir Golem with a melee attack suffers 1d4 points of electricity back-lash damage per 4 HD the Half Sentinel of Mithardir Golem has.

Shacklelock- This material is loose and dangly, but also very effective for binding and holding on to what it needs to hold. A Half Shacklelock Golem’s natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier, further it gains a bonus on grapple checks, opposing disarmed checks, and strength checks to hold its ground (Against such attacks as Bull-rush attempts, or Trip attacks) equal to half its HD.

Shadesteel- This material was mined and forged entirely on the plane of shadow, granting the Half Shadesteel Golem the ability to blend into the shadows. In any lighting condition less than Full light, (Low-light, Darkness, ect.) the Shadesteel Golem gains a bonus on Hide checks equal to half its HD, further the Half Shadesteel Golem gains a +2 bonus to Strength.

Shield-Guardian- This material has been magically treated for certain purposes. 1/day per 4 HD the Half Shield-Guardian Golem has it may cast Shield Other (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldother.htm) as a spell like ability, Caster level equal to the Half Shield-Guardian Golem’s HD. The Half Shield-Guardian may store one in its body, either ‘peacefully’ cast into it by a willing creature, or any spell that has failed to overcome the Half Shield- Guardian Golem’s Spell Resistance. It may only have one spell within it at any given time, but it may immediately drop an old spell for a new available spell. It may cast this spell at any time, however while this spell is cast from the Half shield-guardian Golem, it’s Caster Level and DCs are all based on the original caster. A Half-Shield-guardian Golem may only store spells of levels up to 1/2 its HD.

I've done a bit,More will be reviewed when i get the time.
EDIT: I hate the 50000 character limit:smallannoyed:

[AugustNights]

Any creature in melee range?
Intended to note that. Yes.



Why Admanitine?I dont really think that it fits well here:

Part of the Half Golem In general.


Why no Jetpack?
Levitate?


Nice,I like it.Though it might be strange to get a large golem from a medium sized half golem
I invision a bunch of tiny golems crawling off of the Half-Golem and assembling a Large Golem.

Battle-glory: Suggestions?

EDIT: Tell me about it. I loath limits today.

[monkman]

Second part

Trainer- This material is filled with resonating chambers, and various instrument like mechanisms. The Half Trainer Golem is capable of using its body as any musical instrument that it has 4 or more ranks in Perform (That instrument) for any task that requires one. This does not require the use of its hands as that the noise is created internally. The Half Trainer Golem effectively gains an additional level, for purposes of Caster Level, Spells Known, and Ability to cast spells per day and Bardic Music as if it had gained a level in Bard for each level of Half Golem it takes, if the Half Trainer Golem did not have Bard class before it gains this benefit as for a 1rst level Bard.
A bit to powerfull,your giving them another class.

Warforged- This material is made from the body of a Living Construct, designed to mirror the Half Warforged Golem’s own species, it is naturally strong and the Half Warforged Golem gains a +2 bonus to Strength, and suffers only a -2 penalty to disguise its grafted nature. Further, the naturally living state of the Warforged material makes it easier to graft, reducing the Will save DC of The Danger Ritual by 5.
There already a graft to get a warforge arm, Not sure what book though.
Web- This material is extremely sticky and surprisingly strong. Any weapon that deals damage to a Half Web Golem becomes stuck to its skin, unless the wielder succeeds on a DC (10+ 1/2 The Half Web Golem’s HD + Strength) Reflex save. The weapon may be retrieved with a successful disarm check which the Half Web Golem receives a racial bonus to equal to half its HD. Further the Half Web Golem gains a continual Spider Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm) effect, as well as slow-falling for a distance equal to 10 feet per HD the Half Web Golem possesses.
No love for spider man?(web slinging)
Woodwrath- This material was bound together in the outer planes of the wild. The Half Woodwrath Golem gains a +2 bonus to Constitution, further any square moved through by a Half Woodwrath Golem is left covered in Overgrown wild assassin-vine like plants. These plants never become fully grown, but they do entangle any creature that walks into their space, and attempt to Hold fast the creature there. The creature must make an opposed strength check in order to exit any such square, use the Woodwrath Golem’s strength for this opposed check. These overgrown plants last for three rounds after forming.
Do these plant hold the half golem?
Worker- This material is built with heavy labor in mind, The Half Worker Golem’s Strength increases by an additional +2 and its natural armor increases to equal its constitution modifier. Further when the Half Worker Golem is considered one size larger for purposes of lifting and carrying capacities, as well the Half Worker Golem gains a bonus on all Profession checks involving construction and heavy labor, and Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks.

Well that the second finshed part of my review,Now i got to go to the first part.
Anyways I made some adjustements for my Maug.

Edit:
Levitate?
Levitate gives them the fly ability but It's not the same as a jet pack:smallfrown:

[Rumel]

Were-Elemental (Water)

Hybrid Form-
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/143/9/5/Water_man_by_OwlGem.jpg

Full-Alternate Form-
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44169_C5_PrimalWaterE500CC.jpg


Prerequisites:
To become a Were-Elemental (Water), the character must meet the following requirements...

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another Were-Elemental (Water).

HD: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0| Alternate form Water Elemental, Water Elemental Empathy, Lunar body, Waves Sense, Whirlpool

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0| Alternate form (Hybrid), Lunar hide

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+0| +1 Dex or Con, Drown, Size

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1| Curse of Magucanthropy, Flow [/table]
Skills Points at Each Level: 2+Int mod
Class Skills: The Were-Elemental (Water)’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Handle Animal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex)

Proficiencies: A Were-Elemental (Water) gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with armor or shields.

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Were-Elemental (Water).

Lunar Body: Were-Elemental (Water) retains all of its old racial modifiers and gains the (Shapechanger) subtype. They gain Low-light vision if they did not already possess it. A Were-Elemental (Water) gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its constitution modifier while in Alternate Form (See Below). While in Humanoid form the Were-Elemental (Water) gains a bonus to natural armor equal to half its constitution modifier.

Alternate Form: At first level, the Were-Elemental (Water) gains a Medium Water Elemental Alternate Form. While in Water Elemental form, the Were-Elemental (Water) cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands or feet, but gains two slam attacks dealing 1d8+Str mod damage. While in Water Elemental form the Were-Elemental (Water)’s movement speeds are a base land speed of 20ft and a swim speed of 30ft+10ft/size category above medium.

At second level, the Were-Elemental (Water) can assume a Medium Hybrid form, between it's Water Elemental form and it's Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the Were-Elemental (Water) gains the natural attacks of Water Elemental form, as well as the same movement speeds, however the Were-Elemental (Water) retains its abilities to manipulate objects, use weapons, and speak.

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A Were-Elemental (Water) can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

For every level in Were-Elemental (Water), or for every two in another class, the Were-Elemental (Water)'s Alternate Forms improve as shown below.

{table]Were-Elemental (Water) Level+ 1/2 HD of other Levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Dex
2|+1 Dex, +1 Con
3|+2 Dex, +1 Con
4|+3 Dex, +1 Con
5|+3 Dex, +2 Con
6|+4 Dex, +2 Con
7|+5 Dex, +2 Con
8|+5 Dex, +3 Con
9|+6 Dex, +3 Con
10|+7 Dex, +3 Con
11|+7 Dex, +4 Con
12|+8 Dex, +4 Con
[/table]

Water Elemental Empathy: The Were-Elemental (Water) can communicate with Water Elementals, and other Aquan speaking Animals, regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on Charisma based checks to influence such Beasts, however the Were-Elemental (Water) gains no such bonus on influencing Animals.

Wave Sense: Beginning at first level the Were-Elemental (Water), while in Water Elemental form, gains Tremer-sense out to 5ft/HD in water and half that distance on land and gains a bonus on Escape Artist checks equal to its HD. At second level the Were-Elemental (Water) gains the full benefits of Wave Sense regardless of form.

Whirlpool: The elemental can transform itself into a whirlpool once every 10 minutes, provided it is underwater, and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD it has. In vortex form, the elemental can move through the water or along the bottom at its swim speed. The vortex is 5 feet wide at the base, up to 30 feet wide at the top, and 10 feet or more tall, depending on the elemental’s size. The elemental controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet.

The elemental’s movement while in vortex form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the elemental enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the vortex if it touches or enters the vortex, or if the elemental moves into or through the creature’s space.

Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the elemental might take damage when caught in the vortex (see table for details) and may be swept up by it. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save when it comes into contact with the vortex or take the indicated damage. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful currents, automatically taking damage each round. An affected creature is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the vortex. The creature still takes damage, but can leave if the save is successful. The DC for saves against the vortex’s effects varies with the elemental’s size. The save DC is Strength-based.

Creatures trapped in the vortex cannot move except to go where the elemental carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Creatures caught in the whirlwind can otherwise act normally, but must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a -4 penalty to Dexterity and a -2 penalty on attack rolls. The elemental can have only as many creatures trapped inside the vortex at one time as will fit inside the vortex’s volume.

The elemental can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them wherever the vortex happens to be. A summoned elemental always ejects trapped creatures before returning to its home plane.

If the vortex’s base touches the bottom, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the elemental and has a diameter equal to half the vortex’s height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment.

Those caught in the cloud must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.

An elemental in vortex form cannot make slam attacks and does not threaten the area around it.

{table=head]Size|Damage|Height|Save DC

Medium|1d8|10-30ft|10+1/2HD+Con mod

Large|1d10|10-40ft|12+1/2HD+Con mod

Huge|2d6|10-50ft|14+1/2HD+Con mod

Gargantuan|2d8|10-60ft|17+1/2HD+Con mod

Colossal|2d10|10-70|20+1/2HD+Con mod
[/Table]

Lunar Hide: At second level, while in either Water Elemental or Hybrid form, the Were-Elemental (Water) gains DR/Silver equal to its HD/2.

Ability Score Increase: At third level the Were-Elemental (Water) gains a +1 increase to either Dexterity or Constitution in all forms.

Size: At third level, a Were-Elemental (Water)’s Water Elemental or Hybrid forms may be Medium or Large. The Were-Elemental (Water) chooses its size each time it assumes one of its Alternate Forms.

When a Were-Elemental (Water) changes size its natural attacks are re-sized for appropriate damage. For every size increase beyond Medium the Were-Elemental (Water) gains a +1 bonus to Natural Armor Class while in Alternate Form.

A Were-Elemental (Water) of 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.

A Were-Elemental (Water) of 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending two normal transformations.

A Were-Elemental (Water) of 20 HD or more may choose to become Colossal by expending four normal transformations.

Drown: At third level the Were-Elemental (Water) gains the ability to drown an opponent. Any creature that is in the Were-Elemental (Water)'s square must make a Reflex save or be trapped in the Were-Elemental (Water). While a creature is in the Were-Elemental (Water) it must make a Will save to regain focus and an opposing swim check to the grapple check of the Were-Elemental (Water). If the opposing check fails the creature must make a Fortitude save against another grapple check or become unconscious, a creature may only stay conscious inside the Were-Elemental (Water) for it's Con mod rounds (min=1). If a creature is unconscious, it dies in one round, unless saved by their ally as a Full-Round action, that leaves both in the next square closest to you, the drowned creature has -1 HP. This is a Class Feature that only functions while it is in Water Elemental Alternate Form.

Flow: At fourth level the Were-Elemental (Water) gains the ability to flow between forms, it may switch between Hybrid and Alternate form as a free action at will and may switch from Huminoid to Hybrid one step quicker, becoming a free action at 20HD and doesn't provoke an AoO when changing at all, when changing from Huminoid to Hybrid or Hybrid to Alternate Form.

Curse of Magucanthrope: At fourth level the Were-Elemental (Water) can transmit Magucanthropy to other creatures. If a Humanoid or Giant of (the same sizes as the Prerequisites for this class) is hit by the Were-Elemental (Water)’s natural attacks while it is in either Alternate form, the struck creature must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Were-Elemental (Water)’s HD+ Constitution modifier) or contract Magucanthropy. Magucanthropy Functions exactly as Magucanthropy except as noted above. For more information on Magucanthropy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm), check the Lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.


May I request that I make the other Were-Elements? I sort of want them as my own creations...

[Tacitus]

Also Chump,

Warforged- Warforged grafts are highly adaptable, and are easily modified, the Half-Warforged Golem gains 1 graft upgrade selected from the Marut Monster Class instead of a Golem weapon.

What? Work in progress, or has it been lost, or am I blind? @.@

[Betropper]

A Were-Elemental? what is the Animal form and the Hybrid form? Aren't they pretty much the same thing?

[Rumel]

A Were-Elemental? what is the Animal form and the Hybrid form? Aren't they pretty much the same thing?

Ya... Get technical about a game you stab a dragon with your fourth arm while shooting fire out of the rest :smallamused:

Edit: The Hybrid looks like the picture, a human made of water, while the water elemental looks like a living wave, with it's lowers half split and two mini waves as arms, with a creepy troll face where his chest should be...

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/13/75378-TrollFace.png

[Betropper]

It kind of does make a difference, ChumpLump said somewhere that the creature needs to be feral to give it that mutant I'm-not-totally-human-cause-I-turn-into-this-freaky-think-at-night feeling.

[Rumel]

It kind of does make a difference, ChumpLump said somewhere that the creature needs to be feral to give it that mutant I'm-not-totally-human-cause-I-turn-into-this-freaky-think-at-night feeling.

I fixed the problem in my edit /\ :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I talked to ChumpLump and already got his O.K.

[Betropper]

Small thing I noticed, d10 is too big of a HD for this.

[Rumel]

Small thing I noticed, d10 is too big of a HD for this.

Fixed it... Would d10 or d12 be appropriate for Earth?

[Rumel]

No critiques for the Scorpion or Water Elemental?

[Magicyop]

No critiques for the Scorpion or Water Elemental?

Be patient. There are many monsters who have been up there longer and have either gotten no or very few critiques. I know that I'm personally slowly working my way down the unfinished list, from the top, and trying to nominate or critique each monster in turn.

Maybe you should do the same? Critiquing and nominating other people's monsters will encourage them to help you with yours (See the first post!)

[Rumel]

Be patient. There are many monsters who have been up there longer and have either gotten no or very few critiques. I know that I'm personally slowly working my way down the unfinished list, from the top, and trying to nominate or critique each monster in turn.

Maybe you should do the same? Critiquing and nominating other people's monsters will encourage them to help you with yours (See the first post!)

I kind of feel I shouldn't critique fully until I get a monster accepted, but if you say I should... I'll be the best critiquer in the forum!

[Betropper]

Might as well continue the Weremadness then. Magucanthropy powers, away!

WereRemorhaz

http://www.reapermini.com/graphics/gallery/4/14595_p_1_ss.jpg


Prerequisites:
To become a WereRemorhaz, the character must meet the following requirements:

Race: Any Medium or Large humanoid or giant.
Special: Must have been injured by the natural attack of another Wereremorhaz.

HD: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2| Alternate form Remorhaz, Remorhaz Empathy, Lunar body, Remorhaz Traits, Heat

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3| Alternate form (Hybrid), Lunar hide

3rd|
+3|
+0|
+3|
+3| +1 Wis, Multi-Legged, Size

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4| Curse of Magucanthropy, Burrow

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4| Clever Traps, Improved Grab

6th|
+6|
+1|
+4|
+4| Swallow Whole

7th|
+7|
+1|
+5|
+5| Remorhaz Rage[/table]

Skills Points at Each Level: 2+Int mod
Class Skills: The Wereremorhaz’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Handle Animal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Knowledge (Dungeoneering)(Int), Move Silently (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex)

Proficiencies: A Wereremorhaz gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with armor or shields.

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Wereremorhaz.

Lunar Body: Wereremorhaz retains all of its old racial modifiers and gains the (Shapechanger) subtype. They gain Low-light vision if they did not already possess it. A Wereremorhaz gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its constitution modifier while in Alternate Form (See Below). While in Humanoid form the Wereremorhaz gains a bonus to natural armor equal to half its constitution modifier.

Alternate Form: At first level, the Wereremorhaz gains a Medium Remorhaz Alternate Form. While in Remorhaz form, the Wereremorhaz cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of hands, but gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+Str mod damage and two claw attacks dealing 1d4+Str damage. While in Remorhaz form the Wereremorhaz’s movement speeds are a base land speed of 30ft.

At second level, the Wereremorhaz can assume a Medium Hybrid form, between it's Remorhaz form and it's Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the Wereremorhaz gains the natural attacks of the Remorhaz form, as well as the movement speeds, however the Wereremorhaz retains its abilities to manipulate objects, use weapons, and speak.

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A Wereremorhaz can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

For every level in Wereremorhaz, or for every two in another class, the Wereremorhaz's Alternate Forms improve as shown below.

{table]Wereremorhaz Level+ 1/2 HD of other Levels|Ability Improvements
1|+1 Con
2|+1 Con, +1 Dex
3|+2 Con, +1 Dex
4|+3 Con, +1 Dex
5|+3 Con, +2 Dex
6|+4 Con, +2 Dex
7|+5 Con, +2 Dex
8|+5 Con, +3 Dex
9|+6 Con, +3 Dex
10|+7 Con, +3 Dex
11|+7 Con, +4 Dex
12|+8 Con, +4 Dex
13|+8 Con, +5 Dex
[/table]

Water Elemental Empathy: The Wereremorhaz can communicate with Remorhazes, and other arctic worms regardless of form and gains a +4 bonus on Charisma based checks to influence such Beasts, however the Wereremorhaz gains no such bonus on influencing Animals.

Remorhaz Traits: Beginning at first level the Wereremorhaz, while in Alternate form, gains Scent and gains a bonus on hide checks equal to its HD in snowy, bright, or white areas. At second level the Wereremorhaz gains the full benefits of Wave Sense regardless of form.

Heat: A Remorhaz is known for the intense heat it generates from it's body in combat. Unarmed creatures attacking a Wereremorhaz or anything touching it takes 1d6 fire damage, add another 1d6 per 2 HD. At 10 HD the Wereremorhaz's heat is so intense it burns away at nearly anything. Any non-magical object the Wereremorhaz touches in battle and if the Wereremorhaz wills to melt it must make a (10+1/2 HD+Con) save or be destroyed.

Lunar Hide: At second level, while in either Water Elemental or Hybrid form, the Were-Elemental (Water) gains DR/Silver equal to its HD/2.

Ability Score Increase: At third level the Wereremorhaz gains a +1 increase to Wisdom in all forms.

Size: At third level, a Wereremorhaz’s Water Elemental or Hybrid forms may be Medium or Large. The Wereremorhaz chooses its size each time it assumes one of its Alternate Forms.

When a Wereremorhaz changes size its natural attacks are re-sized for appropriate damage. For every size increase beyond Medium the Wereremorhaz gains a +1 bonus to Natural Armor Class while in Alternate Form.

A Wereremorhaz of 12 HD or more may choose to become Huge by expending two normal transformations.

A Wereremorhaz of 16 HD or more may choose to become Gargantuan by expending two normal transformations.

A Wereremorhaz of 20 HD or more may choose to become Colossal by expending four normal transformations.

Multi-Legged: At third level a Wereremorhaz in Animal form learns to use it's multiple legs to full effect. It gains a +2 bonus to grapple and climb checks. In addition, it gains a Rake attack only useable while grappling. On a successful grapple check, the Wereremorhaz deals 2d6 damage to a grappled foe.

Burrow: At fourth level the Wereremorhaz uses it's Humanoid and Remorhaz characteristics to burrow. It gains a burrow speed equal to 2/3rds his land speed (round down) in Hybrid form. In addition, his heat makes it so that anyone that enters them automatically takes his heat damage.

Curse of Magucanthrope: At fourth level the Wereremorhaz can transmit Magucanthropy to other creatures. If a Humanoid or Giant of (the same sizes as the Prerequisites for this class) is hit by the Wereremorhaz’s natural attacks while it is in either Alternate form, the struck creature must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Wereremorhaz’s HD+ Constitution modifier) or contract Magucanthropy. Magucanthropy Functions exactly as Magucanthropy except as noted above. For more information on Magucanthropy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm), check the Lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.

Clever Traps:A Wereremorhaz of fifth level can use to full effect his burrowing powers in alternate form. He can burrow and make an area up to Large size unstable as a full round action as long as no-one is already standing in it. Anyone that enters it breaks the surface and falls 20 feet. Once inside the pit, the creature is subject to the Wereremorhaz's heat for three rounds.

Improved Grab: A fifth level Werermorhaz gains Improved Grab in Alternate form.

Swallow Whole: A sixth level Wereremorhaz is capable of swallowing his opponents whole. If he succeeds on a grapple check while grappling an opponent in alternate form, he swallows him whole. Once inside, an opponent can break out by dealing damage equal to 1/4 the Wereremorhaz's HP to it's stomach, which has an AC equal to the Wereremorhaz flat-footed. Creatures inside the Remorhaz take acid damage equal to the Wereremorhaz's heat damage and 1d6 bludgeoning damage per 5 HD.

Remorhaz Rage A Wereremorhaz of seventh level has rage so intense it keeps him alive after huge blows. He gains Fast Healing equal to his HD in all forms. He also can keep himself alive through burning rage. He stays conscious even after going below 0 HP, but still dies if he hits -10.

Changelog:
Nothing yet.

Comments:
I'm just crazy right now so I made this, don't know how weak/strong it is at this point.

[Kajhera]

Do we have a plain old remorhaz class? My boyfriend, again, asked about it.

Your remorhaz can change into a water elemental.

[Betropper]

Do we have a plain old remorhaz class? My boyfriend, again, asked about it.

Your remorhaz can change into a water elemental.

Fixed it up, thanks :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: No, I just checked, there is no Remorhaz class in either thread.

[Kajhera]

Fixed it up, thanks :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: No, I just checked, there is no Remorhaz class in either thread.

Then I'll request it, I mean, if we're going to have a were-class. Won't work on it myself unless I actually take a look at it, though. :smallamused:

[Rumel]

Grell

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/lom_gallery/88142.jpg


Grell: A base character class.

Hit Dice: d8

{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Aberrant Body, Electric Nature, Blindsight, Paralyzing Tentacles
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Improved Grab, Constrict, Flight, +1 Dex
3 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Expert Grappler, Growth, Reach, +1 Con
[/table]

Skill Points: 2+int (x4 at level 1)
Skills: Craft, Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Spot
Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft simple weapons.
Maybe Martial weapons too... Or a select few?

Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with speed 20', +5' each level after first. It hovers above the ground, but it must remain within 1' above a solid or liquid surface. A grell is blind (though it can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability). A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon with 0' reach (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 1 tentacle attack each level after first, until it has 10 tentacle attacks. Its tentacles are capable of fine manipulation, but can only wield grellcraft weapons.
I like the wording, but it seems like the tentacles are to weak... Even Wizards get 1d6 daggers, and they're the weakest... A die size up would be good without the +1

Electric Nature (Ex): A grell gains a bonus on saves against paralysis equal to its HD. It also gains electricity resistance equal to its HD.
Might want to specify it's only immune to electrical paralysis, and if not, the title is misleading

Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each subsequent hit die.

Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex): 2xHDxCon modifier times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con modifier). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws, nor does this take any additional uses; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, when a creature fails his saving throw, he is paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds; and at 3rd level, a creature that fails his saving throw is paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.
I think 1d4+1 to 2d4 is a big jump for a possible level 3 player... Maybe make it HD based for die size, and +1 per class level?

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple, a grell deals 1d4+str points of damage. This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category.

Flight: A 2nd-level grell may levitate itself as the spell. At 4HD, it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed with perfect maneuverability.
Maybe raise the levitation height by 5ft/HD, instead of flight at level 2?

Expert Grappler (Ex): Grell employ their tentacles to excellent effect in grapples, using their smaller ones to assist. They gain a +1 racial bonus on all grapples per tentacle they possess.

A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself reduces the penalty for such a hold by 1 per tentacle, from the normal -20 penalty. So, for example, a grell with 10 tentacle attacks takes only a -10 penalty on holds using a single tentacle.
I would specify they only get the multi-tentacle bonus while useing said tentacles. So no grappleing 10 people and getting a +10 bonus to all for no reason. Also, makeing a small-medium character nearly 90% based on grappleing isn't the best idea... You should make it so the Grell counts as a few size categories larger while grappleing, or it can grapple larger foes.

Growth: A 3rd-level grell grows from small to medium, along with the normal non-ability changes associated with such.

Reach: A 3rd-level grell has 10' reach with its tentacle attacks.

Grellcraft Weaponry

Grellcraft: The grellcraft special quality may be added to any one-handed or light melee weapon. It loses its range increment, if any. Grellcraft weapons cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts.

A grellcraft weapon alters one tentacle attack to which it is attached, rather than acting as a wielded weapon. The tentacle's type of damage, damage die, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier change to match the weapon. It continues to be able to deliver paralysis attempts. A grell wielding a one-handed grellcraft weapon gains an additional 5' of reach with its tentacle attack.
Specify if "Normal" counts as magic bonuses as in, a masterwork dagger costs double, but makeing it flameing only costs only a +1 bonus or +2?


Changelog:

*Clarified some things.
*Changed Electricity Immunity to Electricity Resistance.
*Ctrl-X'ed paralysis immunity.
*Reduced tentacle progression so you are level 9 by the time you get all 10 tentacles.
*Removed simple weapon proficiencies. Feral grell do not use weapons. Subject to change.
--
*Elaborated on grellcraft weaponry.
--
*Recombined Expert Grappler and Skillful Grappler into 3rd-level Expert Grappler.
*Put paralysis immunity back under aberrant body because I'm not sure where else it elegantly fits.
--
*Switched paralysis and electricity resistance into Electric Nature.
*Reinstituted weapon proficiencies.
*Changed Flight.
*Maybe did something else.


This is my ideas for the Ultimate Bird-Brain :smalltongue:

[Rumel]

I wish to endorse the Living Spell, Animate Object and Swarmshifter...

[DragonOfUndeath]

WereWight

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx1010tacticstips_wight.jpg

Prerequisites:
Special: Must have had a level drained or survived an attack (but not killed) by a Wight
Race: Any Medium or Large Humanoid or Giant

HD: D12 (HD from other classes become D12)

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+1|
+0| Alternate form Wight, Lunar body, Undead Traits

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+1|
+1| Alternate form (Hybrid)

3rd|
+2|
+0|
+2|
+1| Lunar Hide

4th|
+2|
+0|
+2|
+2| Lifesense (Feat)

5th|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+2| Energy Drain

6th|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3| Turn Resistance (Feat)

7th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+3| Create Spawn: WereWight

8th|
+4|
+2|
+4|
+4| Create Spawn: Wight, Lunar Skin[/table]

Skills Points at Each Level: 4+Int mod
Class Skills: The WereWight's class skills are Intimidate , Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Spot, Move Silently, Escape Artist, Diplomacy, Search

Proficiencies: A WereWight gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with armor or shields.

For every level in WereWight, the WereWight's Abilities improve as shown below:

{table]WereWight Level|Ability Improvements
1|+1Cha, +1Str
2|+1Cha, +1Dex
3|+1Cha, +1Str
4|+1Cha, +1Dex
5|+1Cha, +1Str
6|+1Cha, +1Dex
7|+1Cha, +1Str
8|+1Cha, +1Dex
[/table]

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the WereWight:

Lunar Body: WereWight gains the (Undead) type and (Shapechanger) subtype. They gain Darkvision60 if they did not already possess it. A WereWight gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its Charisma modifier while in Alternate Form (See Below).

Undead traits: Immune to Sleep effects, Paralysis, Critical hits, Mind-Affecting, Poison, Stunning, Disease, Death, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Str, Dex, Con Damage, Fort effects, Non-lethal, Fatigue, Exhaustion. No Con, no need to eat breathe or sleep, Negative Heals, Positive Harms.

Alternate Form: At first level, the WereWight gains a Wight Alternate Form. While in Wight form, the WereWight gains a bite attack dealing 1d10+Str mod damage and two claw attacks dealing 1d4+Dex damage. While in Wight form the WereWight has a base land speed of 40ft but cannot wield a weapon or speak

At second level, the WereWight can assume a Medium Hybrid form, between it's Wight form and it's Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the WereWight gains the natural attacks of the Wight form, but the movement speed increases by 10 and can wield a weapon and speak

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A WereWight can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

Lunar Hide: Gain DR=WereWight levels /Silver.

Lunar Skin change DR into WereWight levels+ 1/2 other class levels.

Lifesense: Gains Lifesense as a bonus feat.

Energy Drain: Living creatures hit with a natural weapon from a Werewight gain one Negative level. Fortitude save to get rid of a Negative level is 10+WerewightHD+Cha modifier.

Turn Resistance: Gain Turn Resistance as a bonus feat.

Create Spawn: WereWight: A living being who died from Energy Drain, failed at least 2 checks to get rid of negative levels caused by a WereWight or has had more than 3 levels drained becomes a WereWight, upon becoming a WereWight it gains WereWight Monster levels=to their original HD (maximum your HD-1 {if single-classes WereWight} or your WereWight level {if multiclassed}) if this exceeds the maximum level of WereWight monster levels it may take levels in classes it had prior to becoming a WereWight (If none take levels in it's Favoured Class).

Create Spawn: Wight: A living being killed by a WereWights natural weapons or Energy Drain becomes a Wight. Upon becoming a Wight it gains Wight Monster Class (Libris Mortis p.g.40)=to their original HD (Maximum your HD-1). If their HD exceeds the maximum level in the Wight class it may take levels in classes it had prior to becoming a Wight (if none take levels in it's Favoured Class)
Special: You may choose to make a WereWight instead of a Wight if you wish.

Changelog:
Nothing yet.

Comments:
I used the Wight Monster Class from Libris Mortis as inspiration rather than the MM Wight. I can't find the rules for different Fort, Reflex, Will Saves so I just did something that seemed to fit.

[Gorgondantess]

Okay. This is a... highly disturbing trend, to say the least.
Now, as a foreword, I'm not saying anything about the homebrewing skill of those involved, nor their merits. All I'm saying is that I think our efforts are a little misdirected here.
Werewolf is fine. I'm not a fan of the class from a subjective viewpoint- hell, I'd take a werewolf off the SRD any day over that thing- but from an objective viewpoint, it's a very well done, polished class. As good as any other class on here, that's for sure. Then we had the werebear, and the wererhino and such. Fine, fine. Werehydra, okay. Werespider, rat, snake, another snake, great cat, great cat, great cat, great cat... fine, fine, fine...
But now... seriously? What is the point? We have magical beasts, vermin and animals. Let's leave it at that. Not undead, not elementals. It defeats the purpose of a were-creature. I'm not telling you to shut it down or anything- hell, even if I had the power to, I wouldn't- but I'm asking, to all those future 'brewers who want to make a were-iron golem, or a were-illithid, or a were-aasimar. Please. We don't need a were-everything under the sun. Let's leave it to animals (and vermin and magical beasts:smallsigh:), move on to actual bonified creatures, and end the madness.

[DragonOfUndeath]

move on to actual bonified creatures, and end the madness.

Skeletons are Bonified :smalltongue:

WereSkeleton
........

I'm kidding, I understand where you are coming from

[Gorgondantess]

Skeletons are Bonified :smalltongue:

Ignore my previous statement. That pun was so bad it hit the very pinnacle of badness, and then had nowhere else to go and thus came out the other side on AWESOME.
Go ahead. Make all the were-undeads you want.:smalltongue:

[DragonOfUndeath]

Ignore my previous statement. That pun was so bad it hit the very pinnacle of badness, and then had nowhere else to go and thus came out the other side on AWESOME.
Go ahead. Make all the were-undeads you want.:smalltongue:

yessir *salutes then gets to work*

[Gorgondantess]

yessir *salutes then gets to work*

Seriously, though, you need to talk with Chumplump about this were-undead thing if you haven't already. He's the therianthrope master, after all.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Seriously, though, you need to talk with Chumplump about this were-undead thing if you haven't already. He's the therianthrope master, after all.

i just saw the WereRemorhaz and got inspired, it took me about 15 minutes. I will talk to him when he comes online next

[Niezck]

Alrighty, Phrenic Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9910955&postcount=8) has been altered to give fewer powers but far more versatility. More versatility than is offered by nearly any other monster class actually.

[Betropper]

So WereRemorhaz is OK then in purposes of acceptability?

It's probably going to be my last lyan anyway. :smalltongue:

[Kajhera]

Re: Werewight: ... This concept seems a tad ... redundant? I mean, not quite so much as a were-ghoul, but still. :smalltongue:

Re: Thorn: First-level increases make them much more palatable; still maybe not my first choice at first level, but not too bad, either. :smallsmile: It's looking pretty good.

[TheGeckoKing]

I'm half tempted to make a WereGecko now.

......................

I joke! I joke!

Now then, lets have a look-y.
The Grell needs to be proficient with all Grellcraft weps, I think.
I don't see why they shouldn't.
The WereWight needs to specify how Lifesense works, because not everyone has Libris Mortis and it's in the SRD on some undead anyway..
I've skimmed through the WereRemorhaz, and everything looks in order.

Pandoryrm will be up either today, or tomorrow. I'm going to force myself to get it up even if I blow a blood vessel.

[Betropper]

On were-wight, the ability scores advance too fast and HD is too high.

[Betropper]

You know what? might as well critique the whole thing.

Comments are in the quote in blue.

WereWight

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx1010tacticstips_wight.jpg

Prerequisites:
Special: Must have had a level drained or survived an attack (but not killed) by a Wight
Race: Any Medium or Large Humanoid or Giant

HD: D12 (HD from other classes become D12) WAY too much.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+1|
+0| Alternate form Wight, Lunar body, Undead Traits

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+1|
+1| Alternate form (Hybrid)

3rd|
+2|
+0|
+2|
+1| Lunar Hide

4th|
+2|
+0|
+2|
+2| Lifesense (Feat)

5th|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+2| Energy Drain

6th|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3| Turn Resistance (Feat)

7th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+3| Create Spawn: WereWight

8th|
+4|
+2|
+4|
+4| Create Spawn: Wight, Lunar Skin[/table]

Skills Points at Each Level: 4+Int mod
Class Skills: The WereWight's class skills are Intimidate , Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Spot, Move Silently, Escape Artist, Diplomacy, Search
some of the required skills aren't on here.

Proficiencies: A WereWight gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with armor or shields.

For every level in WereWight, the WereWight's Abilities improve as shown below:

{table]WereWight Level|Ability Improvements
1|+1Cha, +1Str
2|+1Cha, +1Dex
3|+1Cha, +1Str
4|+1Cha, +1Dex
5|+1Cha, +1Str
6|+1Cha, +1Dex
7|+1Cha, +1Str
8|+1Cha, +1Dex
[/table]
Huh? I think you should look at other were classes. You don't gain 2 upgrades every level.

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the WereWight:

Lunar Body: WereWight gains the (Undead) type and (Shapechanger) subtype. They gain Darkvision60 if they did not already possess it. A WereWight gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its Charisma modifier while in Alternate Form (See Below).
Make the undead type only while in alternate form. Also, it's supposed to be Con bonus to armor and half of it it normal form.

Undead traits: Immune to Sleep effects, Paralysis, Critical hits, Mind-Affecting, Poison, Stunning, Disease, Death, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Str, Dex, Con Damage, Fort effects, Non-lethal, Fatigue, Exhaustion. No Con, no need to eat breathe or sleep, Negative Heals, Positive Harms.
Again, only alternate form. Also, make this at a higher level, It's too much for level one.

Alternate Form: At first level, the WereWight gains a Wight Alternate Form. While in Wight form, the WereWight gains a bite attack dealing 1d10+Str mod damage and two claw attacks dealing 1d4+Dex damage. While in Wight form the WereWight has a base land speed of 40ft but cannot wield a weapon or speak
1d10 at first level? No. Make it a bit lower, like 1d6 and get rid of a claw.

At second level, the WereWight can assume a Medium Hybrid form, between it's Wight form and it's Humanoid Form. While in Hybrid form, the WereWight gains the natural attacks of the Wight form, but the movement speed increases by 10 and can wield a weapon and speak
increases? it should stay the same speed wise.

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

A WereWight can assume its Alternate Form 1/day/HD, and can remain transformed indefinitely.

Lunar Hide: Gain DR=WereWight levels /Silver.
Look at the guide template for this.

Lunar Skin change DR into WereWight levels+ 1/2 other class levels.
Why is this all the way up here?

Lifesense: Gains Lifesense as a bonus feat.
Need to explain.

Energy Drain: Living creatures hit with a natural weapon from a Werewight gain one Negative level. Fortitude save to get rid of a Negative level is 10+WerewightHD+Cha modifier.
Seems a bit early for negative levels. Also, make the save 10+1/2HD+Cha

Turn Resistance: Gain Turn Resistance as a bonus feat.

Create Spawn: WereWight: A living being who died from Energy Drain, failed at least 2 checks to get rid of negative levels caused by a WereWight or has had more than 3 levels drained becomes a WereWight, upon becoming a WereWight it gains WereWight Monster levels=to their original HD (maximum your HD-1 {if single-classes WereWight} or your WereWight level {if multiclassed}) if this exceeds the maximum level of WereWight monster levels it may take levels in classes it had prior to becoming a WereWight (If none take levels in it's Favoured Class).
Firstly, you need to have a maximum limit for the Werewights you can control. Secondly, this is WAY too overpowered. Even if you could have 1 or 2 more werewights they could be stronger than you and you could easily tackle higher monsters, also making THEM yours. I'd say make it so you can have creatures whose HD is equal to or less than 1/4 yours and that your minions can't make other werewights.

Create Spawn: Wight: A living being killed by a WereWights natural weapons or Energy Drain becomes a Wight. Upon becoming a Wight it gains Wight Monster Class (Libris Mortis p.g.40)=to their original HD (Maximum your HD-1). If their HD exceeds the maximum level in the Wight class it may take levels in classes it had prior to becoming a Wight (if none take levels in it's Favoured Class)
Special: You may choose to make a WereWight instead of a Wight if you wish.
Same as above, although I don't know if this makes a difference.

Changelog:
Nothing yet.

Comments:
I used the Wight Monster Class from Libris Mortis as inspiration rather than the MM Wight. I can't find the rules for different Fort, Reflex, Will Saves so I just did something that seemed to fit.

I'm just bored, I know the werewight is probably not legal but whatever, I graded it anyway:smallbiggrin:.

EDIT: Also, the ability for level 3 needs to be animal-only and the level 4 ability has to be hybrid-only.

[Kajhera]

I changed grell proficiencies to read 'grellcraft weapons' instead. The rest, I'll have to think about.

[Rumel]

Seriously, though, you need to talk with Chumplump about this were-undead thing if you haven't already. He's the therianthrope master, after all.

I don't believe it should be allowed... It's not an animal, vermin or magical beast... And it's possible some undead would have an Int of over 3 which is a no. I know ChumpLump has final say, but this is just a few rules I see it breaking...

[Betropper]

@DragonofUndeath:

My critique still applies to this, but if you really want to make this make a different thread for it specifically.

[Lord_Gareth]

It should be noted that "Wight" and "Were" both mean "Man" (Male).

So your class is a "ManMan"

Or, rather, a "MalehumanMalehuman".

[Kajhera]

Made some changes to the Grell's levitation (I forgot the feather fall! How can you be a balloonbrain without featherfall?) as well as its grappling.

[AugustNights]

Werelementals:
On the boarderline of where I stand on Therianthropes.
They are primal, beastial creatures, knowing little more than rage and territory.

Wereremorhazes:
I feel this belongs in another thread, and is not quite in line with the Community Based Monster Class project. Remorhazes are more than bestial, capable of 'complicated' strategy (Push man off cliff, go eat dead man). They aren't terribly... Rule of thumb Int of 3 is the absolute highest a Were-beast should have. And 3 is pushing it.

Werewight :
I feel that this definitely belongs in another thread, Wereundead make very little sense to me in the first place... Wouldn't you become an undead from an infected undead's bite? Further the Wight is very clearly of intelligence of a human being. (Average human =10, average wight = 11 or 10.) We specifically, in this project, wish to avoid creating Antherions (See Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9790594&postcount=1221)) because they are largely complicated, and are more of a new idea than a "Monster Class sans LA and RHD." That said I think you could have some fun moving this monster into your own thread and working on it there.

Busy, sick, and computer is hating me today. I'll get back to ya'll on half golem,

[Betropper]

Werelementals:
On the boarderline of where I stand on Therianthropes.
They are primal, beastial creatures, knowing little more than rage and territory.

Wereremorhazes:
I feel this belongs in another thread, and is not quite in line with the Community Based Monster Class project. Remorhazes are more than bestial, capable of 'complicated' strategy (Push man off cliff, go eat dead man). They aren't terribly... Rule of thumb Int of 3 is the absolute highest a Were-beast should have. And 3 is pushing it.

Werewight :
I feel that this definitely belongs in another thread, Wereundead make very little sense to me in the first place... Wouldn't you become an undead from an infected undead's bite? Further the Wight is very clearly of intelligence of a human being. (Average human =10, average wight = 11 or 10.) We specifically, in this project, wish to avoid creating Antherions (See Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9790594&postcount=1221)) because they are largely complicated, and are more of a new idea than a "Monster Class sans LA and RHD." That said I think you could have some fun moving this monster into your own thread and working on it there.

Busy, sick, and computer is hating me today. I'll get back to ya'll on half golem,

Ah, never realized Remorhazes had 5 Int. :smallbiggrin:

[Benly]

Wereremorhazes:
I feel this belongs in another thread, and is not quite in line with the Community Based Monster Class project. Remorhazes are more than bestial, capable of 'complicated' strategy (Push man off cliff, go eat dead man). They aren't terribly... Rule of thumb Int of 3 is the absolute highest a Were-beast should have. And 3 is pushing it.

I disagree on this one, personally. For me the key point is that remorhaz neither speak nor understand any language. They are smart animals, but I think they're intended to be more akin to very clever monkeys or dolphins. As far as dropping a victim from a high place and then going to eat the fallen critter, that's not more complicated than what real-world animals do. This is fairly easily observed by owning a cat and keeping its food in a bin on a shelf that can be jarred open by a fall. :smallsmile:

That said, I think doing were-remorhaz before doing actual remorhaz is kind of goofy, and were-undead are, frankly, sort of a dumb idea. ("He's only a little bit dead! It's intermittent!")

[Lix Lorn]

("He's only a little bit dead! It's intermittent!")
Your friend he is only mostly dead! :smalltongue:


Busy, sick,
Hope you feel better soon. :(

[AugustNights]

I disagree on this one, personally. For me the key point is that remorhaz neither speak nor understand any language. They are smart animals, but I think they're intended to be more akin to very clever monkeys or dolphins. As far as dropping a victim from a high place and then going to eat the fallen critter, that's not more complicated than what real-world animals do. This is fairly easily observed by owning a cat and keeping its food in a bin on a shelf that can be jarred open by a fall. :smallsmile:

Poor example, but Intelligence 5 is clearly higher than a dolphin or monkey. These creatures are capable of complicated thought, equivalent to that of a rather stupid human. Communication would come easily to a Int 5 creature, because Int 3 is where complicated thought and communication come into play. They are not primly bestial. Just hungry and strong.


That said, I think doing were-remorhaz before doing actual remorhaz is kind of goofy,


This is where my point stands. Therianthropes shouldn't be of player races. This is why I'm mildly not certain about elementals. They are primal, and bestial, and have the low intelligence, but they also could make player characters... But if the project wants to see a Wereremorhaz my opinion is just of the many.


and were-undead are, frankly, sort of a dumb idea. ("He's only a little bit dead! It's intermittent!"

Critiquing Rule 1: Respect. Lets avoid addressing the intelligence level of an idea. Different, inappropriate to this thread (In my opinion), and tricky to implement. There is no reason to call anything dumb, it doesn't serve and it only puts your fellow brewer down. As a community we want to support each other, at least, I should hope so.

[Benly]

Poor example, but Intelligence 5 is clearly higher than a dolphin or monkey. These creatures are capable of complicated thought, equivalent to that of a rather stupid human. Communication would come easily to a Int 5 creature, because Int 3 is where complicated thought and communication come into play. They are not primly bestial. Just hungry and strong.

Except that remorhaz don't have language. They explicitly speak and understand no languages and have no special communication powers. D&D has this sort of category of creatures that are smarter than animals without exactly having humanlike intelligence, and remorhaz fall in that area. They don't canonically match the necessary rules for the lycanthrope template, but I also don't think the idea of a were-remorhaz or were-griffon is entirely absurd.



This is where my point stands. Therianthropes shouldn't be of player races. This is why I'm mildly not certain about elementals. They are primal, and bestial, and have the low intelligence, but they also could make player characters... But if the project wants to see a Wereremorhaz my opinion is just of the many.


Well, I don't think remorhaz are a viable PC race under normal circumstances, but these threads also have playable purple worms and yellow musk creepers, with canonical Int of 1 and - respectively. :smallsmile:




Critiquing Rule 1: Respect. Lets avoid addressing the intelligence level of an idea. Different, inappropriate to this thread (In my opinion), and tricky to implement. There is no reason to call anything dumb, it doesn't serve and it only puts your fellow brewer down. As a community we want to support each other, at least, I should hope so.

Well, I'll amend it: I think they're an inherently goofy concept more suited to a joke race along the lines of the Awakened Calzone Golem. Now, granted, for all I know one of the threads has an Awakened Calzone Golem class, but I would say that if the intent is for the were-corpse to be taken seriously it's got a tough row to hoe. Is that better? :smallsmile:

[TheGeckoKing]

Pandorym
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091124232221/forgottenrealms/images/0/00/Pandorym.jpg

Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features|Power Points|Powers Known|Maximum Level Power Known

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Pandorym Body, Crystalline Spray, Mental Power|4|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Warp Jump|6|-|-

3rd|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Ego Whiplash|11|-|-

4th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Manifestation of Will|17|2|1st

5th|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Faint Sign of Binding|25|3|1st

6th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Corporealize, Mental Smog|35|4|2nd

7th|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Magical Buffer|46|5|2nd

8th|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+6|1st Facet of the Mind - Red Rage|56|6|3rd

9th|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Not Of This World, Telepathy|72|7|3rd

10th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|2nd Facet of the Mind - Orange Acid|88|8|4th

11th|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Moderate Sign of Binding|106|9|4th

12th|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+8|3rd Facet of the Mind - Lightning Speed|126|10|5th

13th|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+8|Psionic Leech|147|11|5th

14th|
+7/+2|
+9|
+4|
+9|4th Facet of the Mind - Green Glow|170|12|6th

15th|
+7/+2|
+9|
+5|
+9|Strong Sign of Binding|195|13|6th

16th|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+10|5th Facet of the Mind - Turquoise Tyrant|221|14|7th

17th|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+10|Anathematic Secrecy|250|15|7th

18th|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|6th Facet of the Mind - Indigo Insanity|250|16|8th

19th|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Psionic Vortex|311|17|8th

20th|
+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|7th Facet of the Mind - Purple Punishment, Overwhelming Sign of Binding|343|18|9th[/table]
Skills Points at 1st Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Speak Language (N/A), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha).

All abilities granted by this class are (Su) abilities, unless otherwise noted

Proficiencies: Pandorym has no proficiencies, being a big, floating chunk of animated Psicrystal, but can wear certain items as noted below.

Pandorym Body(Ex): You lose all previous racial modifiers and gain the Outsider Type with the Psionic, Evil and Native subtypes.
You become medium sized, gain a slam attack that deals 1d6+Cha mod damage, and can hover 1in off the ground, giving you a land speed of 40ft. You gain a flight speed of 40ft (Good) at 5th level. You have no fine manipulation, and any items you wear orbit 1in around your crystalline form, if they cannot be fitted onto the prism itself. You have no discernible weak-points, and so you gain immunity to Critical Hits.
You gain Common as an automatic language, and gain any non-secret language of your choice as Bonus Language(s).
Any effect that would swap your mind into another body (True Mind Switch, etc) instantly fails, for the crystal that houses your mind is a prison. Lastly, if Pandoryrm would be subject to the effects of a Catapsi power by failing it’s Will Save, it instantly becomes dazed for one round as it’s mind is distorted by the nullification effects.

Crystalline Spray (Su): At 1st level as a swift action, but only once per turn, you may make a ranged ray attack dealing 1d6 damage with a range of 30ft. You may treat this damage at slashing/piercing damage at your discretion. For every 3HD you have, this damage increases by 1d6.

Mental Power: At each level, you gain a pool of Power Points like a psionic manifesting class, as indicated on the table above. You also gain bonus power points for high Int, just like a Psion.

Warp Jump (Su): At 2nd Level, by paying 1 power point as an immediate action, you may increase all your movement speeds by 5ft for two rounds. You may expend extra pp to increase your movement speeds by 10ft for every extra 1 power points expended, but you may only expend a maximum amount of points equal to half your total HD at a time. At 11HD, you may pay 5 power points to manifest Dimension Slide as a PLA with a Manifester Level equal to your own. At 13HD, you can augment this power if you wish, and at 15HD you may increase the PP cost to 12 power points to manifest the power as an Immediate Action instead.

Ego Whiplash (Su): At 3rd level, you can "share" all the negative emotions you carry, knowing full well that this ravages the psyche of the mortal creatures. Once per day per 3 HD, you may make one creature within your line of sight make a will save with a DC of 10 + Cha Mod + HD/2 or take Cha damage equal to half your Int Mod. At 5th level, if the target fails their save you may choose to effect the victim with a Crushing Despair spell (Caster Level equal to your HD) instead. At 10HD, the Cha Damage caused by this effect becomes Cha Drain instead.

Manifestation of Will (Psi): At level 4, you gain the ability to manifest powers, as outlined below. You start at knowing two psion powers of your choice (Within certain limits, as below) at 4th level.
Each time you achieve a new level past 4th level, you unlock the knowledge of new powers. You choose the powers known from the psion power list (This does not include Discipline Specific Lists). When you gain 4th level, you must choose 3 disciplines of psionic powers. You may only choose powers known from these disciplines, but the feats Expanded Knowledge and Epic Expanded Knowledge do allow you to learn powers from the lists of other disciplines or even other classes.
You can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level, and the number of times you can manifest powers in a day is limited only by your daily power points. You simply know your powers; they are ingrained in your mind. You do not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though you must enter a sort of meditation otherwise like sleep, to regain all your spent power points. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against your powers is 10 + the power’s level + your Intelligence modifier. You begin at 4th level with the ability to learn 1st-level powers. As you attain higher levels, you may gain the ability to master more complex powers, with the maximum level power you can learn at each level indicated on the class table. To learn or manifest a power, you must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the power’s level.

Faint Sign of Binding (Ex): At 5th level, your existence distorts the very links in the universe, making the transportation of matter very hard. Anyone casting a Conjuration spell (except spells with the Healing or Creation descriptors) within 30ft of you must make a Spellcraft check that has a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + your Cha mod or lose the spell/spell slot with no effect. Also spells that force outsiders to their home plane (Such as Banishment) have their save DC’s decreased by your Cha mod.
You may suppress/reactivate this effect and all other Seals of Binding, as a Free Action.

Corporealize (Ex): At 6th level, by paying 5 power points as a move action, you can materialize a memory of your physical form into a corporeal form, usually a pseudopodia or tentacle. You gain fine manipulation with this limb, which is a normal sized limb for your current size. You can use this ability to interact with the material world in all ways—picking up or moving objects, opening doors, holding weaponry, and so on. You can have up to Con Mod corporeal appendages in existence at one time, to remove one of your limbs is a free action, and the limbs exist until dismissal or destruction. An opponent can make sunder attempts against an appendage as if it were a weapon. An appendage has your HD worth of hit points and uses your AC. If the appendage is severed, you take damage equal to your number of HD.

Mental Smog (Ex): At 6th level, you can stretch the smog that collects around your prism-body around the battlefield and direct your mental focus through that, like electricity passed through water. When a Psionic power would require you to make any touch attacks (ranged or not), use can your HD-2 instead of your normal BAB score (Maximum 20), including determining extra attacks per round (If any), by paying an extra 2 power points that does not factor into the Manifester Limit.

Magical Buffer (Ex): At 7th level, your colossal intellect simply brushes away minor things like the Arcane, and Energy. You gain SR 11 + your HD. You also gain Resistance to Cold and Sonic equal to your HD. At 13HD, you gain immunity to polymorphing, petrification, and any other spell or ability that would alter your form. At 15HD, you are not subject to energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, or death from massive damage. At 20HD, you gain Immunity to Sonic Damage instead of Resistance.

1st Facet of the Mind – Red Rage (Su): At 8th level your mind becomes able to manifest it's base emotions, fractured and mostly separate. These are not emotions as mortals know, but unfathomable occurrences in your psyche that the naive mortals try to associate non-perpendicular thinking to. Your mind takes one facet at first – Red for Rage. You may pay 7 pp to affect any person within 15ft with your maddening thoughts, as per the Confusion spell. DC equal to 10 + HD/2 + Cha Mod, and a caster level equal to your Manifester level.

Not Of This World (Ex): At 9th level, you gain the Incorporeal Subtype as below.
Incorporeal Traits:
While incorporeal, Pandorym is harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. It has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source, except for force effects or attacks made with ghost touch weapons. It can pass through solid objects, but not force effects, at will. Its attacks ignore natural armor, armor, and shields, but deflection bonuses and force effects work normally against them. An incorporeal creature always moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn't wish to be. Pandorym uses its Str Mod for its attack rolls regardless of the subtype. However, if Pandorym is in a state of Psionic Focus they can use their Cha Mod instead.

Telepathy (Su): At 9th level, you gain Telepathy out a range equal to your HD x 10. This means you can communicate telepathically with any other creature within the given range that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.

2nd Facet of the Mind – Orange Acid Mind (Su): At 10th level, your mind takes a second facet to symbolize your tainted, unfathomable mind. Anyone who uses mind-affecting effects on you must make a Will Save with a DC of 10+ HD/2 + Cha Mod or the effect fails and they take one point of Wis Drain as you lash out with your own powers. At 10th level, this becomes two points of Wis damage. At 15th level, this becomes 2 points of Wis Drain.

Moderate Sign of Binding (Su): At 11th level, your effects on this world become stronger and more pronounced. When a Conjuration (Summoning) spell’s duration expires and the creature that was summoned is within 60ft of you the summoned monster does not return home, is no longer under the caster’s control, and is Hostile towards the summoner regardless of alignment. Also, your hate of the Divine becomes apparent now. All Divine spell casters 60ft of you take a -1 penalty to their effective CL while in range.

3rd Facet of the Mind – Lightning Speed (Ex): At 12th level you become a fast thinker, and it’s reflected in your Psionic warfare. You only need to use a Swift Action to gain Psionic Focus (You still provoke AoO's when doing so). At 17HD, you may gain Psionic Focus by spending 5 power points as an immediate action instead, but only once per round.

Psionic Leech (Ex): At 13th level, any manifesters manifesting a power within 60ft of you must make a Manifester check with a DC of 10 + HD/2 + Cha Mod or use up a number of extra powerpoints equal to one ¼ of your HD. You may exclude yourself/your party members from your leeching.

4th Facet of the Mind – Green Glow (Su): At 14th level, your mind takes another facet; the facet of envy and greed, which you can use to infect the lesser races. As a full-round action requiring Concentration, you can make yourself appear near-exactly like the viewer's desire. This functions exactly like the Sympathy spell, with a few specifications. You may only effect one person at a time with this effect, and the object specified as the desired object must be yourself. Attacking the target immediately ends this effect, and their attitude towards you is shifted to hostile when this effect ends. The spell has a caster level equal to half your HD, a Will Save with a DC of 10 + Cha Mod + HD/2, and can be used once per day per 7 HD.

Strong Sign of Binding (Ex): At 15th level, your effects on this world are peaking and you are coming close to your pinnacle. Divine casters now take -2 to their CL while near you instead of -1 CL, and once per day per 5HD, you may put a Binding Hex on a creature within 30ft of yourself as a swift action. If they fail a Will Save with a DC of 10 + Cha Mod + 1/2HD, your target is hexed, and all Conjuration spells (except spells with the Healing or Creation descriptors) that allow for SR they cast, or are cast on them fail automatically for 24 hours.

5th Facet of the Mind – Turquoise Tyrant (Psi): At 16th level, your mind shows a 5th facet – tyranny. You gain Psionic Dominate as a PLA useable once per day per 8HD, with a Will DC equal to 10 + Cha Mod + HD/2.

Anathematic Secrecy (Ex): At 17th level, you gain the ability to obscure your existence to all but the mightiest of diviners. Whenever you would be the target or subject of a Divination spell, or a Clairsentience power, the caster/manifester must immediately make a Will Save with a DC equal to 10 + HD/2 + Cha Mod or the spell/power fails and they are affected by a Feeblemind spell with a Caster Level equal to your HD.

6th Facet of the Mind – Indigo Insanity (Psi): At 18th, the 6th facet of your mind manifests in a tangible form, i.e. your utter insanity. Anyone within 20ft of you must make a Will Save with a DC of 10 + 1/2HD + Cha Mod or be driven insane, as per the Insanity spell. No matter if they make the save or not, one person can only be affected by Indigo Insanity once per day. You may begrudgingly exclude your allies from your insanity inducing effect if you so wish to.

Psionic Vortex (Ex): At 19th level, you become a sink hole for any Psionic powers made near you. A Number of times per day equal to your Cha Mod, when you manifest a Psionic power, you may activate this ability. The power costs you 1pp less (Minimum 1) as you simply drain back wasted energy. Also, any manifester within 60ft of you must make a concentration check with a DC of 10 + Cha Mod +1/2HD or lose the Power’s effect, and the pp used. Allies are excluded from the draining if you wish them to be.

7th Facet of the Mind – Purple Punishment (Psi): At 20th level, you finally show the last facet of your mind – the violet, raw power of your mind congealed into one form. And your mind is a violent mind indeed. As a standard action HD/5 times per day, you may pay 17pp to violently shunt one person within your line of sight to the nightmarish place you call “home”. The target must make a Will Save with a DC of 10 + Cha Mod + 1/2HD, or be instantly shunted to a universe beyond even an Overdeity’s reach, perpendicular to the main Material Realm. On a successful save, the target takes 6d8 Force Damage from the matter-bending experience. If you successfully remove a target from reality, you are instantly healed a quarter of your Maximum HP (Cannot go above your maximum HP), from contact with your home energies. Anyone shunted to your home realm cannot be Raised or Resurrected, for they are not dead, but alive in the "other" world. This is not a good thing. This is never a good thing.
This effect carries the [Teleportation] descriptor, but is not affected by any of your Signs of Binding. However, other outside influences my impede this ability regardless.

Overwhelming Sign of Binding (Ex): Your effects on the realm you are in are horrible, and you practically cordon off entire countries when you exist in them. No Conjuration spells (except spells with the Healing or Creation descriptors) of 5th level or lower cast in a 100 mile radius of you work whatsoever, and any spells in this range that contact extra-planar entities (Commune, Contact other Plane etc.) fail, unless a Will Save with a DC of 15 + Cha Mod + 1/2HD is made by the caster.


Comments:

Comments
Wow. That hurt my head something fierce. Well, here is the Elder Evil Pandorym, a creature of the mind most exclusive. It has delayed psionics of a Psion, and even more limited than that and so in return for breaking one of the main commandments of optimization (THOU SHALT NOT LOSE ML'S) has a few cool effects, like gimping Summoners/Teleporter and Clerics/Druids, being a Psionic Sink Hole, teleportation abilities, and 7 cool effects that turn it into a Lovecraftian Mood Lamp. Psychedelic man :smallcool:.



Creature of Annihilation
Epic Prestige Class

http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Image-of-cosmic-horror.jpg

Prerequisites
To become a Creature of Annihilation, the character must meet the following requirements

Prerequisite: Overwhelming Sign of Binding class feature.

Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Class Features

1st|Body of Annihilation

2nd|Perpendicular Psionics

3rd|Mental Subjugation

4th|Epic Sign of Binding

5th|Gateway to Madness[/table]

Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Speak Language (N/A), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha).

Body of Annihilation: At 1st level, your crystalline prison finally gives out, and shatters, revealing your true form. From memories and energies you build a new body, a perfect sphere of utter darkness. You grow to Large Size or one size category larger, whichever is bigger. Also, anyone or anything that comes in contact with you must make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + Cha Mod + HD) or be annihilated from creation, as per touching a Sphere of Annihilation. This malign ability can be suppressed or activated as a free action.

Perpendicular Psionics (Ex): At 2nd level, your mind swells and grows in impossible ways. You gain a continual True Seeing effect with a Caster Level equal to your HD, and secondly, when you gain this level you may choose to benefit from one of the following;

You may add any two psionic powers to your powers known,
You may gain 30 extra power points,
You may gain two [Psionic] Bonus Feats, or one Bonus Feat of any kind,
You may increase any one of your mental stats (Cha, Int, Wis) by 2


Mental Subjugation (Psi): At 3rd level, the Creature of Annihilation can impose it's impossible will upon near-anything it wants to. Creatures within 30 feet of you must succeed on a Will Save with a DC of 10 + Cha Mod +HD/2 every round or be affected as if by a Dominate Monster, Psionic power (Manifester Level equal to your HD). A creature that succeeds on this saving throw takes 1 point of Wisdom drain instead. A creature already dominated doesn't need to make any saves until the duration of the domination ends.

Epic Sign of Binding (Ex): At 4th level, your control over the multiverse grows to frightening levels as you ready yourself to tear this world asunder, in an attempt to go "home". All Conjuration (Summoning or Teleportation) spells cast in the same plane of existence as you instantly fail unless the caster makes a Will Save with a DC of 10 + your Cha Mod + HD/2, and anyone who fails this save takes 5 points worth of Wisdom Damage.

Gateway to Madness (Su): At 5th level, you tear reality asunder and rip the stars out of the sky as you crack a portal to your home. In a ritual taking 8 hours and costing 100pp (Ignore Manifesting Limits for this ritual), you can open a special Gate to your "home". This is a two way Gate to your maddening home, and so 1d4 Umbral Blots (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm) can be summoned at the end of the ritual if you wish. You can "communicate" with the Umbral Blots and they serve you as per the Summon Monster line of spells, but stay with you until death or Banishment/similar effect. Anyone not native to your home realm and passes through the gate is forever lost, torn asunder by the alien laws of the Perpendicular Reality. Such a blatant disregard for the laws of reality is sure to invoke the wrath of the Gods themselves and is expected by you, but let them come. Let them send their angels and their demons to die at your dictation.
Reality has no hold on you now, and neither do they.

Changelog:

11/12/10 - Basically it's lost fine manipulation and some skill points and got slower Flight Speed, Ego Whip is useable less times per day, the binding signs have a smaller penalty to divine spells, and been given saves as well as Indigo Insanity, it's got SR instead of Psionic Buffer and based all the saves off WIS. Now, bear with me, because i've blown up the Epic Prc :smallannoyed:
2) It floats at 1st level, not flies! The Signs have been toned down, Warp Jump is slahed in half with regards to how far you can go, Ego Whiplash needs payment, divine casters get gimped less, and you can only send people insane once per day, per person.
3) Indigo Insanity needs PP in order for it to take effect now.
12/12/10 - Indigo Insanity has been changed. It's permanent, but you gotta get right up to the bugger in order to go bonkers. Also, Warp Jump has been nerfed so you can't just jump towards your opponent all the time.
15/01/11 - Drastically reduced the amount of Powers Known, for balance's sake.
30/01/11 - I've fixed broken wording, and cleared up Ego Whiplash so it's a bit more tame. Also, the powers known have been sorted out. You get 3 disciplines, end of, so with the Psychic Warrior-eque powers known, it's not as broken.
1/02/11 - More grammar editing, it's now indicated that all class abilities are (Su), bar Crystalline Body, and added Corporealize and Telepathic Backlash/Anathematic Secrecy (Smushed into one), which is straight from the actual Elder Evil itself, slightly edited for player useage. Have decided giving out boni to stats would be broken, as Int is the only one that makes sense and we know that's not happening. Any suggestions for the 9th level ability?
6/02/11 part 1 - Crystalline Spray scales, Wis has been changed to Cha in the abilities, Lightning Speed is Swift Action, wordinghas been fiddled with, and 1st level sucks a bit less.
part 2 - Finally got round to adding the Epic Levels. Cry Havok, and let slip the eldritch hounds of insanity!
7/02/11 - Manifestation of Will is sorted out, and Psionic Vortex has been nerfed - Slightly. Mental Focus has been added so Pandorym can zap people worth a damn.
28/02/11 - Lots of grammatical chan
ges, and Psionic Leech scales, and Pandorym can wear other stuff as normal, only it floats around it in some sort of psychic field, or something.
19/03/11 - Clarified the skill lists better (Why did UMD and UPD go AWOL?), made the saves neater, and rammed both the main class + the epic prc through a spell checker. Now, let us see if I can get a critique without infuriating everyone :smallannoyed:.
22/03/11 - The sorta-useless/sorta-good ability that was Green Glow has been reworked to be a slightly gimped Sympathy (for flavor and balance, I guess). Also delayed the flight to 5th level, because that's when you get manifesting, Mental Focus is now Mental Smog and makes a bit more sense (I hope), Crystalline Spray has been given the switcheroo with Warp Jump so Pandorym has something to do at 1st level, and Ego Whiplash has a Crushing Despair option at 5th level.
23/03/11 - Full BaB by lots of people's requests, fixed some saves that were broken, Corporealize has no limit (AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!), Mental Smog requires payment, Not Of This World has been clarified, and Warp Jump covers the annoyingly specific but incredibly flavor-fitting abilities at 11, 13 and 15 HD with a panic button ability. Because everyone likes to press buttons.
18/04/11 - No, i'm not dead. Long live the king! Anyway, went back, and neatened out some annoying errors I didn't like. Added a last ability for Lightning Mind at 17HD, clarified more things that annoy me (wow, my ability wording was bad), and neatened out the page. Snazzy.
23/04/11 - Added some immunities that I forgot to add, and then I added some Telepathy, because that's what the original monster has.
25/04/11 - Crystalline Spray doesn't cost pp anymore, because that was a bit cruel at lower levels. It's now a swift action, once per turn, and scales.

[Hyudra]

I really think that any -Thropes that aren't explicitly in the monster manuals (ie. statblocked and/or pictures) should have their own thread. It started with Werehydra, and I think it's gotten out of hand since. I think the goal of this thread should primarily be to create viable PC roles for all of the official monsters. Getting too far into homebrew and 'what if' creations is straying from that goal.

Updated the Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9604492#post9604492). It's been almost two months, so my apologies there. As I said in the comments, I thought I'd updated it, but must have closed tab before submitting, and haven't been checking in due to a busy work schedule.

Replaced the original Stone Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8589236#post8589236) picture with something less grainy & blurry.

If there's no objections, I'm thinking I might take Manticore to get back in the swing of things. Cr5, has a language, and very much in the same vein of what I've been doing as of late.

edit - Deleted my repost of the purple worm. Was largely accidental, so sorry for any confusion there.

[Zemro]

I am now happy with how the Phrenic creature looks and will now give it my nomination.

On the abundance of were-everythings: I was fine just with the monster manual standard and other animals, I kinda think everything beyond that is a bit much. They all have a very similar feel and I feel energies would be better directed towards converting monsters into classes, rather then making all these hybrids. Really, unless there exists rules from them inside the monster manuals, I think the other weres should be in a thread of their own. Were-wight especially makes little sense as they already have a means of creating more of themselves.

EDIT: I'm finishing up my final project for college this weekend, so after that's done I'll be able to more actively help improving monsters.

Though I do feel the unfinished list is rather large and unwieldy currently. I don't think we should speed up in getting creatures approved, but maybe slow down a bit in creating classes? The more classes there are unfinished the less attention each individual class gets. I feel things are getting bogged down, and the thread moving too quickly for some monsters to get the commentary they deserve.

[Hyudra]

Though I do feel the unfinished list is rather large and unwieldy currently. I don't think we should speed up in getting creatures approved, but maybe slow down a bit in creating classes? The more classes there are unfinished the less attention each individual class gets. I feel things are getting bogged down, and the thread moving too quickly for some monsters to get the commentary they deserve.

I've only just returned and skimmed the existing content, so can't comment too thoroughly. If the issue is the sheer quantity of posters (and I seriously think the removal of the Weres will reduce that), then we might take a stance where we ask someone to seriously critique 3-5 other people's work before they post a new monster.

If the issue is multiple monsters being submitted by one person, then we could enforce the rule that was evident in the old thread, where a poster can't post something new until they've finished & successfully submitted their previous work.

The... rather extensive critiquing/endorsement process that I'm noting in the OP might also account for it.

[TheGeckoKing]

Right, Pandorym is up, but it's been collecting dust in Word for ages. Please, look at it, at your leasure. I'm not too desperate for people to look at it for now, because I'm more desperate to get Swarmshifter and Umber Hulk all polished and done and stuff.

[Gorgondantess]

I don't believe it should be allowed... It's not an animal, vermin or magical beast...

Neither is an elemental.


And it's possible some undead would have an Int of over 3 which is a no.
And all elementals have intelligence 3+.

If you can make a were-elemental, he can make a werewight.
Honestly, I don't think either of them should be done at all, though. Again, I'm not telling you to shut down what you've already done, but really, it's just silly.:smallsigh:

[Hyudra]

Pandorym

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091124232221/forgottenrealms/images/0/00/Pandorym.jpg
Skills Points at 1st Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)

Pandoryrm’s class skills are Knowledge (Taken separately), Psicraft, Concentration, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Use Psionic Device, Autohypnosis, and Craft.

Proficiencies: Pandorym has no proficiencies, being a big, floating chunk of animated Psicrystal, but can wear certain items as noted below.

Crystalline Body: You lose all previous racial modifiers and gain the Outsider Type with the Psionic, and Evil subtypes. You become medium sized, gain a slam attack that deals [1d4+ INT mod] damage, and a flight speed of 30 ft (Good). You are able to extend two wispy arms from the face-shaped smog to manipulate objects, but you can only wear a limited amount of equipment.
• One psicrown/helm
• One amulet
• 3 rings
• Goggles/Mask/Similar thing.
If you would acquire equipment that takes up the same slot, you can wear that equipment in the same slot with no problem. Also, any effect that would swap your mind into another body (True Mind Switch, etc) instantly fails, for the crystal that houses your mind is a prison. And lastly, if Pandoryrm would be subject to the effects of a Catapsi by failing it’s Will Save, it instantly becomes dazed for one round as it’s mind is distorted by the nullification effects.

Warp Jump: By paying 1 power point, you may increase your flight speed by 10ft for one round. You may expend extra pp to increase your flight speed by 10ft for every 1pp expended, but you may only expend a maximum amount of points equal to your HD at a time.

Crystalline Spray: You may pay 2 power points to make a ranged ray attack dealing 2d4 damage with a range of 30ft. You may treat this damage at slashing/piercing damage at your discretion.

Ego Whiplash: You gain Ego Whip as a PLA useable HD/3 times per day.

Manifestation of Will: You manifest powers as a Psion Telepath, of your Pandorym levels minus 3. However, because you are a weapon of horror and creation does not agree with you very much, you manifest Metacreativity powers with a ML-1.

Faint Sign of Binding: Your existence damages the very links in the universe, making teleportation……hard. Anyone casting a Conjuration spell within 30ft of you must make a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + INT Mod + Spell’s Level) or lose the spell/spell slot with no effect. Also spells that force outsiders to their home plane (Such as Banishment) have their save DC’s decreased by your INT mod. You may supress this as a Free Action, but you must keep putting in a concious effort of supress it every round or it reactivates. This applies for the stronger Signs of Binding below.

Bonus Psionic Feats: You gain a bonus feat with the [Psionic] descriptor at levels 6, 9, 11 and 17.

Psionic Buffer: As a being of the mind exclusively, you learn to feed off the minds of other manifesters. Whenever someone would manifest a Psionic Power within 40ft of you, you gain pp equal to ¼ of the pp used to manifest the power.

1st Color of the Mind – Red Rage: You are a single minded creature, to be honest. Not stupid, but very stubborn. In fact, your mind can be described as 7 shades that glow within your crystalline prison. Your mind takes one shade at first – Red for rage. You may pay 7 pp to affect any person within 15ft with your maddening thoughts, as per the Confusion spell. DC equal to [10 + HD/2 + INT Mod].

2nd Color of the Mind – Orange Acid Mind: Your mind takes a second shade of color to symbolize your tainted warped mind. Anyone who uses mind-affecting effects on you must make a Will Save (DC same as Red Rage) or the effect fails and they take one point of WIS Drain.

Moderate Sign of Binding: Your effects on this world become stronger and more pronounced. When a summoning spell’s duration expires and the creature that was summoned is within 60ft of you, the summoned monster does not return home, and is no longer under the caster’s control. The monster will almost certainly be Hostile towards the spell caster for forcing it into service. Also, your hate of the Divine becomes apparent now. All Divine spell casters 60ft of you take a -2 penalty to their effective CL while in range.

3rd Color of the Mind – Lightning Speed: You’re a fast thinker, and it’s reflected in your Psionic warfare. You only need to use a Standard Action to gain Psionic Focus. At 17HD, you only need a Swift Action.

Psionic Leech: Your Psionic Buffer effect now gives you ½ the pp used to manifest the power. Also, the manifester must make a Concentration check [DC = 10 + HD/2 + INT Mod, as usual] or use up twice as many pp as they normally would (this factors in extra pp spent to improve the manifested power).

4th Color of the Mind – Green Glow: Your mind takes another shade; the shade of envy and greed. You gain Identify as an at will SLA, so no-one can hide their goods from you, and you gain a continual Intellect Fortress effect, only it affects Divine effects instead of Psionic Effects.

Strong Sign of Binding: Your effects on this world are peaking and you are coming close to your pinnacle. Divine casters now take -4 to their CL while near you, and once per day per 5HD, you may put a Binding Hex on an opponent within 30ft of yourself. While your opponent is hexed, all Conjuration spells they cast fail instantly.

5th Color of the Mind – Turquoise Tyrant: Your mind shows a 6th shade – tyranny. You gain Psionic Dominate as a PLA useable once per day per 9HD (Will DC equal to Red Rage’s DC), and it is treated as it has already been augmented to last for one day per level.

6th Color of the Mind – Indigo Insanity: The 6th shade of your mind manifests in a tangible form, i.e. your utter insanity. Anyone within 50ft of you must make a Will Save (DC equal to Red Rage’s DC) or be driven permanently insane, as per the Insanity spell. You may (begrudgingly) exclude your allies from your insanity inducing effect.
Psionic Black Hole: You are a mine made solid. You are THE mind made solid, and you’re hungry! Anytime you use a Psionic power, it costs you 2pp less as you simply drain back wasted energy. Also, any manifester must make a concentration check (Same DC as Psionic Buffer) or lose the Power’s effect, and the pp used.

7th Color of the Mind – Purple Punishment: You finally show the last shade of your mind – the violet, raw power of your mind. And your mind is a violent mind indeed. As a standard action, you may pay 17pp to violently shunt one person within 50ft to the nightmarish place you call “home”. The target must make a Will Save (DC = 10+Int Mod+1/2HD) or be instantly shunted to a universe beyond even an Overdeity’s reach, perpendicular to the main Material Realm. On a successful save, the target takes 7d7 Force Damage from the sheer power that is your mind. Anyone shunted to your homerealm cannot be Raised or Ressurected, for they are not dead, but alive in your world. Not that this is a good thing.

Overwhelming Sign of Binding: Your effects on the realm you are in are horrible, and you practically cordon off realms when you exist in them. While you are in a Plane of Existence (Hades, the Abyss, The Elemental Plane of Water etc.) no Conjuration spells work whatsoever, and any spells that contact extra-planar entities (Commune, Contact other Plane etc.) fail also. Divine spells cast in the realm you are in are cast with a -5 to their effective Cl.

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
Wow. That hurt my head something fierce. Well, here is the Elder Evil Pandorym, a creature of the mind most exclusivley. It has delayed psionics of a Telepath, and in return for breaking one of the main commandments of optimization (THOU SHALT NOT LOSE ML's) has a few cool effects, like gimping Summoners/Teleporter and Clerics/Druids, being a Psionic Sink Hole, and 7 cool effects that turn it into a Lovecraftian Mood Lamp. Psychedelic man :smallcool: I request you give ideas on how to fill the "Here you go, a bonus feat" levels, because I HATE doing that. Also, 5 epic levels. Ideas. Make them happen.

Changelog

None as yet.


Ok, critique:
First off, before I even hit the spoiler button to look at the monster, the formatting of the post bugs me. Text at the beginning unrelated to the monster entry (where any player using the creature would have to look at/past it every time they visited), the centered & colored monster name where we don't tend to do that, the lack of an image to make the creature stand out on the page, it just doesn't work in your favor. Stick to general formatting conventions, pretty please.
If you're using outsider type, you should state the native plane.
"If you would acquire equipment that takes up the same slot, you can wear that equipment in the same slot with no problem." - This is confusingly worded. I initially read it as "You can wear 3 helmets in the head slot".
You refer to a Catapsi, but I have no clue what this is. You need to be clearer on this point, and/or less specific to encompass a broader array of situations.
Fly speed at 1st level is insanely broken. This runs against standards set out in this thread (wherein flight comes at 4th level at the earliest, and only in extreme cases. 5th level is typical.
Ego whip is potentially gamebreaking, as many monsters have very low charisma. Other monsters have dealt with the issue of int damage being very powerful at low levels, as well, so compare to those. Stygian dragon comes to mind, but not sure if it was properly fixed. I typically wash my hands of all things dragon.
Faint sign of binding - you spelled conscious wrong. The note of having to put in constant effort is weird - either state how this works mechanically (concentration check?) or scrap the fluff. As is, it's an annoying restriction on the player where the player has to stress to his DM every round that he's putting in the effort, or screw over his group.
Psionic Buffer is flat out broken. Consider the effect with a PC group of 4 Pandorym, or a PC group of 3 psionic characters and a Pandorym. Buffer is the wrong word for this kind of effect, as well (buffer means to ward against, to prevent, to block or absorb. You want something more like leech).
"You are a single minded creature, to be honest. Not stupid, but very stubborn. In fact, your mind can be described as 7 shades that glow within your crystalline prison." - This is... abstract. Not a fan of this flavor text.
Please, please, please state the level an ability is gained, in the ability description. It's a pain to skim through Red color of the mind, acid orange mind, moderate psionic binding, 3rd color of the mind and to have to constantly scroll back up to check when the ability is gained, to gauge appropriate balance.
Psionic Leech (ah, you did use that term, buffer is still wrong though) is going to screw over other psionic party members.
Come to think of it, you're benefiting (PPwise) and/or screwing over yourself (making manifesting more expensive), since there's nothing about being able to turn it off, and it doesn't specify that the ability doesn't affect you.
No save 'can't use conjuration' in Strong Sign of Binding is too powerful. Fix.
As I read through the 6th and 7th colors of the mind, it strikes me you've made a psion that's potentially more powerful than a psion, even with the -3 manifester level. Lots of SLAs, general passives and a flood of PP through buffer/leech on top of manifesting as a psion.
6th color of the mind needs a 'save once to be immune' ruling, or you've got opponents saving 50 times in a single combat, until they inevitably fail.
7th color of the mind is too powerful, given how high the save is liable to be (see below) and the effect.
As I read it, the Pandorym has no reason to stack much beyond Int - maybe some dex/con/wis for saves/ac, but even so. Everything works off int (manifesting, all saves, damage, etc). This creature becomes an absolute monster with stacked Int (tomes, headband, ioun stone, fox's cunning, etc). It's an SAD class, and that needs to change.
Overwhelming sign of binding is a little much, even for a 20th level capstone. Again, screws over your allies.

[TheGeckoKing]

Ah, so it was Pandorym that was broken, not Swarmshifter. Right, mega edit, here we come. And I thought the pic was stretching the page. No, it's just my laptop is wacked. Delightful. :smallsigh:

Also, what shall I base the saves off? There's not much else to Pandorym except him massive mind. WIS? CHA?

[Hyudra]

Could be swarmshifter is Überbroken too. I just haven't looked at it.

[TheGeckoKing]

............Your scaring me! :smalleek:

[Rumel]

Neither is an elemental.


And all elementals have intelligence 3+.

If you can make a were-elemental, he can make a werewight.
Honestly, I don't think either of them should be done at all, though. Again, I'm not telling you to shut down what you've already done, but really, it's just silly.:smallsigh:

I actually thought of that... I was considering taking it down...

[TheGeckoKing]

Right, Pandorym has been toned down and sorted out. Must remember to change things when copypasta-ing from Word. Also, don't bother taking down the WereElemental, because what's done is done, and there's no point wasting your time. Just try to be a bit more logical with what Were____ you pick next time :smalltongue:

[Rumel]

Right, Pandorym has been toned down and sorted out. Must remember to change things when copypasta-ing from Word. Also, don't bother taking down the WereElemental, because what's done is done, and there's no point wasting your time. Just try to be a bit more logical with what Were____ you pick next time :smalltongue:

I just want some ideas for my WereScorpion... Then I'll make... Umm... I don't know what I'll make yet, but it'll be great!

[Hyudra]

Where's the changelog for Pandorym fixes/nerfs/buffs? Can't tell what you've altered, Geck.

[TheGeckoKing]

@Rumel
Ideas? Sure. Just don't expect them to be any good :smallwink:

1st, the Ability should say WereScorpion Level +.......blah blah..
It's got Entomanothrope in green, so that needs to change.
2nd, it says it gains a poison dealing.....blah blah blah....
I'm not sure what it should be though. Poison attack? An attack that poisons the target dealing ___ damage......blah blah blah......
3rd, that 1st level looks awfully top heavy........
EDIT: Changelog on Pandorym has been fixed. My Laptop is slow today, so it's eating my posts all the geckoing time.

[Hyudra]

Pandorym

Post format still bugs me. Creature name & image are centered, which goes against convention & looks ugly on high resolution viewing.
You've still got flight speed at 1st level, which still breaks the game. Lack of fine manipulation helps balance this out, but as a 'caster', you're still capable of flying above the battlefield & doing your thing while remaining largely untouchable.
"If you would acquire equipment that takes up a similar slot as something you can wear, you can wear that equipment in the appropriate slot with no problem." - reads awkwardly. Needs polish.
"And lastly, if Pandoryrm would be subject to the effects of a Catapsi by failing it’s Will Save, it instantly becomes dazed for one round as it’s mind is distorted by the nullification effects." - I still have no idea what this means. Clarify?
Warp Jump - reading this, I don't like how it enhances your mobility. You're capable of boosting your mobility to ridiculous extremes (Giving yourself potentially 230' movement at level 20, effectively taking you out of the battlefield in a bad spot).
Ego Whiplash remains a fairly powerful, spammable option. Figure at level 5 you've got 15 whiplashes, or 3-4 per encounter. It lets you attack Cha against any opponent who is too tough to take down with hp damage, and take down many high CR foes with 1-2 casts, no sweat (say, a CR12 elder black pudding).
The added -1 to manifest metacreativity isn't that big a drawback, as I understand it, since you still cast perfectly well outside that discipline. Correct me if I'm wrong (psionics is not my strong suit), but you can just pick powers outside of metacreativity, so you're only really suffering a drawback in selection, (still).
The various signs of binding really need to be condensed & made more intuitive. As is, each entry for the ability is really dense & complicated. Each added level should be one or two sentences long, as far as expanding on it, not 6+ lines.
Acid Orange Mind is kinda weird in how it works, since not everyone who uses a mind affecting power on you is necessarily linking their mind to you. A rogue uses a wand of confusion... they take wis damage? It doesn't make sense.
Not terribly familiar with psionic focus and the ins and outs (don't like psions, personally, and don't tend to have many in my games), but I should caution you that 3rd color of the mind, by making something (versatile, as it links to many feats) require less of an investment in the overall action economy... well, it's dangerous. Think it through very, very carefully.
Intellect fortress vs. divine spells is kinda useless, since divine magic is pretty notorious for having little in the way of damage dealing.
The global no-save lowering of caster level for divine casters is a bit much. Consider that you're pretty much pitting yourself, a caster type, against effectively gimped divine casters. Sure, many of their buffs are pre-combat, but even so, you're a psion-3 that (starting at 15th level) is turning all divine casters into caster-4.
You may mean one day per HD, under Turquoise Tyrant.
Indigo insanity pretty much screws over any recurring villains your DM throws at you, since they're effectively ruined if they lose one save. Almost more so than death.
"At 19th level, you become a mine made solid. You become THE mind made solid, and you’re hungry!" - non sequitor, you use 'mine' instead of 'mind', flavor text is iffy.
I don't like the -2 cost in pp. It's, RAW, potentially abusable (free low cost powers? Potentially spammable?)
The "Any manifester" thing in Psionic Black Hole (Perhaps rename to Psionic Vacuum?) could screw over you or your group.
What's up with the d7 in Purple Punishment? Do they even make those?
The Overwhelming sign of binding is still totally over the top in terms of what it does. How would you react, as a 20th level PC in a typical group, if I just plopped one down in the campaign world somewhere, as an encounter I planned to use against you in 5-10 sessions?

[TheGeckoKing]

Right, before I start, it's not very easy to balance this monster, because trust me, this is a MAJOR downgrade from the normal Pandorym Aspect that's in Elder Evils (Full Psion Casting! Full Divine Shutdown!:smalleek:) Not much of an excuse, but still.

The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.
I'll try to reword that item bit. Wording stuff isn't my forte.
Catapsi is a Psion Power that basically creates Psionic White Noise, messing with your manifesting. To something as mind based as Pandorym, it would be quite painful I would expect.
Warp Jump - I shall try something better.
Ego Whiplash - Seeing as it is a bit spammable, i'll make it pay PP for it.
I'm sticking with the penalty to Metacreativity, because like you said, it limits Pandoryrm's manifesting a bit.
Orange Mind - That can be solved by fluff.
Psionic Focus - You can get it as a move action about level 5-6ish. I don't see the problem.
The rest, i'll get to. Just let me shove some tissues up my nose to stop the nosebleeds I keep getting

[Hyudra]

Right, before I start, it's not very easy to balance this monster, because trust me, this is a MAJOR downgrade from the normal Pandorym Aspect that's in Elder Evils (Full Psion Casting! Full Divine Shutdown!:smalleek:) Not much of an excuse, but still.

Right, but to be fair, you were asking for a pretty extensive design process when you decided to tackle an epic creature.


The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.

Right. If I'm remembering right, brain in a jar and beholder involved stabs at that.


Catapsi is a Psion Power that basically creates Psionic White Noise, messing with your manifesting. To something as mind based as Pandorym, it would be quite painful I would expect.

Seems arbitrary, as there's probably dozens of powers and items out there that interfere with psionics or one's focus.


Psionic Focus - You can get it as a move action about level 5-6ish. I don't see the problem.

Move action is a fairly long ways from a swift action. I'll leave this to your discretion, but as far as I'm concerned, tampering with the action economy leads to disaster.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I set up a Thread for the WereWight Here: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179344)

[TheGeckoKing]

@Hyudra
Psions utterly hurt the action economy if given half a chance anyway, but you have a point. And the Overwhelming Sign arrvives about the same time when it appears in an Elder Evil campaign when your fighting Pandorym. But i'll nerf it, methinks.
And what's wrong with Indigo Insanity? By the time Pandorym gets it, the BBEG could of been sent insane/disintergrated/scrambled/Baleful Polymorphed loads of times. It's not beyond the DM to fudge the roll if he wants to, or better yet, adapt;
"Ahahahaha! My Indigo Insanity has driven the High Priest MAAAAAAD!"
DM: The Cleric twitches and writhes and hits a demonic lamp. Now, you have a Hellfire flaming Cleric of Nerull approaching. Good luck.

[Hyudra]

I set up a Thread for the WereWight Here:

I'm seeing a lot of those threads crop up. Might I suggest a dedicated thread for the weres, to avoid spamming the forum with something that has a fairly niche interest?


Psions utterly hurt the action economy if given half a chance anyway, but you have a point. And the Overwhelming Sign arrvives about the same time when it appears in an Elder Evil campaign when your fighting Pandorym. But i'll nerf it, methinks.

Elder evils shouldn't be a comparable balancing point, anyways.


And what's wrong with Indigo Insanity? By the time Pandorym gets it, the BBEG could of been sent insane/disintergrated/scrambled/Baleful Polymorphed loads of times. It's not beyond the DM to fudge the roll if he wants to, or better yet, adapt;

What's wrong with it? It's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problem lies with the action economy, the permanence of the effect (does it persist for someone who is killed and reraised? Can it be cured, and if so, by what?), the ambiguity of it (both the permanence and what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.

That's the mechanical issue. In terms of the health of the game, it will derail any plans your DM has of having any recurring villains. That's just a pain.

And your 'adaptation' you list isn't very effective. A foe who loses over half his actions and can't effectively implement strategy is pretty much a defeated foe. Your flaming cleric of Nerull isn't any more threatening.

[Lix Lorn]

Elder evils shouldn't be a comparable balancing point, anyways.
Can I sig that?

[Hyudra]

Can I sig that?

Go for it.

[TheGeckoKing]

Fine. They only go mad for 5 rounds. :smallannoyed:

[Hyudra]

Fine. They only go mad for 5 rounds. :smallannoyed:

Ok, so now it's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problems lie with the action economy, the ambiguity of it (what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.

A step forward.

Others are welcome to chime in, by the way. High/epic levels aren't my forte, nor are psions, so I freely admit I'm not the best person to review this thing.

[TheGeckoKing]

Well, i've got one other option, but it's wierd. I shall see what I can do.

[Gorgondantess]

Ok, so now it's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problems lie with the action economy, the ambiguity of it (what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.

A step forward.

Others are welcome to chime in, by the way. High/epic levels aren't my forte, nor are psions, so I freely admit I'm not the best person to review this thing.

So long as it's pretty much your only schtick, that kind of thing is okay- it's just a gaze attack, that's it. A good balancing point is the marraenoloth- that's the quickest anything should get no-action save-or-loses, because really, that's pretty much just what the marraenoloth does.
Now, for indigo insanity, I'm going to disagree with Hyudra and say it's not a problem. A wizard can do that with a quickened confusion at level 15, and that's a mediocre choice. As is, it's actually a little underwhelming for an 18th level ability.
I'd do something interesting with it like increase it to a standard action and either let it affect creatures immune to mind-affecting or remove the save. This is level 18 we're talking about, after all, where even tier 2's are breaking reality over their legs. 'Course, if you're going to do what I suggested, might be best to switch it with the capstone- that's an army annihilating ability right there.
If anyone thinks that's iffy, I'll point you to the fact that even a core bard- a high tier 4- can do that before 18th level. Irresistible dance.

[TheGeckoKing]

I've thought about it, and I think I know what to do. Anyway, could you lot have a look at the Umber Hulk and see if it's OK? It seems to have gotten lost in all of this, and that was a cool class to make.

[Magicyop]

I've thought about it, and I think I know what to do. Anyway, could you lot have a look at the Umber Hulk and see if it's OK? It seems to have gotten lost in all of this, and that was a cool class to make.

Ehh, we're kind of backed up with unfinished classes at the moment. There are tons. Personally, I know I'm getting close to it as I'm working my way down the list. We should be critiquing quicker/more often, to be honest. That's not to say less detailed critiques, but let's try to take a look, right?

Another thing is it seems that a lot of critiquers suffer from one-look syndrome. You give the class one critique, and then after the homebrewer makes changes according to the critique, you never look it over again, you never give it your nomination. Do so! :smalltongue:

Anyway, here's a critique of the Grell.



Grell

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/lom_gallery/88142.jpg


Grell: A base character class.

Hit Dice: d8

{table] Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Aberrant Body, Electric Nature, Blindsight, Paralyzing Tentacles
2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Improved Grab, Powerful Tentacles, Buoyant, +1 Dex
3 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Expert Grappler, Growth, Reach, +1 Con
[/table] Be aware that using spaces doesn't work-- you should actually be centering the text. Plus, grammatically, you shouldn't put a space at the beginning of the class features.

Skill Points: 2+int (x4 at level 1)
Skills: Craft, Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Spot
Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft weapons.

Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with speed 20', +5' each level after first.
Speed ought to scale with HD, not level, really. If it's going to scale at all, this is the type of thing that ought to keep scaling as you grow.

It hovers above the ground, but it must remain within 1' above a solid or liquid surface.
You should note that this allows them to ignore difficult terrain and grants them essentially a permanent Water Walk spell.

A grell is blind (though it can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability). Don't forget to note that this gives them benefits, like immunity to gaze attacks. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon with 0' reach (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 1 tentacle attack each level after first, until it has 10 tentacle attacks. 2 + 3 equals 5, not 10. Further, again, this should scale by HD, not by level, and should not have a cap on it. Maybe make it one tentacle attack per 2 HD? Its tentacles are capable of fine manipulation, but can only wield grellcraft weapons. Can it speak?

Electric Nature (Ex): A grell gains a bonus on saves against paralysis equal to its HD. It also gains electricity resistance equal to its HD. Looks fine to me.

Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each subsequent hit die. Don't use the word subsequent. That makes it seem like you gain more benefit if you take the level early on.

Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex): 2xHDxCon modifier times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con modifier). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws, nor does this take any additional uses; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, when a creature fails his saving throw, he is paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds; and at 3rd level, a creature that fails his saving throw is paralyzed for 2d4 rounds. A little on the powerful side, but I think it will work. You might want to make it less times a day... 2xHDxCon Modifier is a lot.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict. Looks good to me.

Powerful Tentacles (Ex): A 2nd-level grell is treated as medium-sized for the purpose of grapple checks. On a successful grapple, a grell deals 1d4+str points of damage. This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category. Is this a constriction attack?

Buoyant: A 2nd-level grell is under the effect of a constant feather fall, may levitate itself as the spell to a height of 5'/HD off the ground. At 4HD, it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed with perfect maneuverability. Looks good to me.

Expert Grappler (Ex): Grell gain a +1/HD racial bonus on all grapples. It'll be very good at grapples. I suggest +1/ 2 HD

A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself reduces the penalty for such a hold by 1/HD, from the normal -20 penalty. So, for example, a 10th-level grell takes only a -10 penalty on holds using a single tentacle. Good ability!

A grell may use multiple tentacles in a hold so that the penalty is reduced by another point for each tentacle employed. A 10th-level grell could use 3 tentacles to grapple a single creature at a -7 penalty, and 7 tentacles to grapple another creature at a -3 penalty.

Growth: A 3rd-level grell grows from small to medium, along with the normal non-ability changes associated with such.

Reach: A 3rd-level grell has 10' reach with its tentacle attacks.

Grellcraft Weaponry

Grellcraft: The grellcraft special quality may be added to any one-handed or light melee weapon. It loses its range increment, if any. Grellcraft weapons cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts (this includes only the base weapon price, not magic, masterwork, or material costs).

A grellcraft weapon alters one tentacle attack to which it is attached, rather than acting as a wielded weapon. The tentacle's type of damage, damage die, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier change to match the weapon. It continues to be able to deliver paralysis attempts. A grell wielding a one-handed grellcraft weapon gains an additional 5' of reach with its tentacle attack.
What about grellcraft reach weapons?



Changelog:

*Clarified some things.
*Changed Electricity Immunity to Electricity Resistance.
*Ctrl-X'ed paralysis immunity.
*Reduced tentacle progression so you are level 9 by the time you get all 10 tentacles.
*Removed simple weapon proficiencies. Feral grell do not use weapons. Subject to change.
--
*Elaborated on grellcraft weaponry.
--
*Recombined Expert Grappler and Skillful Grappler into 3rd-level Expert Grappler.
*Put paralysis immunity back under aberrant body because I'm not sure where else it elegantly fits.
--
*Switched paralysis and electricity resistance into Electric Nature.
*Reinstituted weapon proficiencies.
*Changed Flight.
*Maybe did something else.
--
*Changed Flight, renamed Buoyancy.
*Changed proficiencies.
*Changed grappling bonuses to be based more on HD; tying them to tentacles led to some misconceptions of my intent.
*Gave just a touch more grappling power to the grell when it starts being able to use grappling abilities.


Overall looks good! I have one more idea, but I have to get going, so I'll mention it later.

[Kajhera]

... Editing most of those, but I went to look up whether grell can speak - they can be wizards, so it seems like they should be able to - it turns out their speech is really complicated. :smalleek: Like being able to talk to each other within 60' with electrical-only speech, imperceptible to most things.

They can speak, though. :smalltongue: Just their native tongue that's complicated.

Erm, as far as grellcraft reach weapons, the only one-handed weapon I'm aware of with reach is the whip. Which is unusual in other ways, too...

Also, I'm going to nominate the Thorn.

[Betropper]

Since my wereremorhaz isn't going to be critiqued, could someone look over my Gibbering Mouther?

[Kajhera]

Since my wereremorhaz isn't going to be critiqued, could someone look over my Gibbering Mouther?

At a glance you have a [/b] tag at the end of one of your first text things. Sorry, got distracted after that. :smalltongue: Good, you fixed the DCs.

Can the creature choose between a Reflex save and Strength check to escape from Engulf?

Any particular reason you gain DR/- for having a creature engulfed rather than a straight DR/bludgeoning?

[Hyudra]

Ehh, we're kind of backed up with unfinished classes at the moment. There are tons. Personally, I know I'm getting close to it as I'm working my way down the list. We should be critiquing quicker/more often, to be honest. That's not to say less detailed critiques, but let's try to take a look, right?

Another thing is it seems that a lot of critiquers suffer from one-look syndrome. You give the class one critique, and then after the homebrewer makes changes according to the critique, you never look it over again, you never give it your nomination. Do so! :smalltongue:

Anyway, here's a critique of the Grell.

Overall looks good! I have one more idea, but I have to get going, so I'll mention it later.

Commenting on your critique & the Grell itself:
Speed scaling with level is probably fine if you want to keep things more or less sane. A Grell that takes all levels in the class will have 30' speed. That makes more sense than a Grell20 with 115' movement or whatever.
It's a good policy to outline starting language, especially in the case of creatures where it's ambiguous whether they'd be able to speak or not. Stating it in the '[Monster] Body' entry would save players from having to check the monster manual (or making incorrect assumptions).
As far as the progression of tentacles goes, I would agree with tying it to HD. 1 tentacle per 2HD (minimum 2) would probably be fine, and would keep things relatively sane in relation to general level progression.
The high number of natural attacks kind of bugs me, though. A grell full attack, as written, stands to be pretty damn devastating. Consider the effect of a Grell Warblade or Duskblade that gets +2d6 elemental damage on each attack. Remember, monsters can take class levels.
Agree with toning down paralyzing tentacles in number of uses. 2xHD, 2xCon or HDxCon is likely sufficient, depending on what you're aiming for (2x Con would be potentially more earlier, but slower progression, while 2xHD would be steadier, and HDxCon would be much more unpredictable growth).
The flight aspect in Buoyant could be bumped up to 5HD for the sake of sanity. Robust flight at 4th is okay for creatures that don't have a lot else going for them, but as is, a player taking 3 levels in Grell is getting a very dense progression at early levels, then very little thereafter.
The -20 penalty that Expert Grappler refers to could be better stated. I just read through the grappling rules 3 times and I'm still not 100% sure what the creature author was referring to.
Overall, I think it more or less works. The main points to address are the progression of tentacles and toning down the sheer quantity of paralysis attacks (as is, you probably wouldn't ever run out after 1st level, eliminating the need for a limit in the first place).
Issues? I see potential weakness at 1st level as an issue, since you're slow, unskilled, armor is hard to come by, you don't have an excess of paralysis attacks (Possibly 4-6 at 1st level, with your current value, maybe 8, for 1-2 per daily encounter) and your base stats/skills kinda suck at that point. More of an issue, I stress, than being 1st level is for most. It's also a one trick pony that is kind of gimped at later levels by any elf (or other paralysis immune creature) with a freedom of movement effect.

Note
Purple worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9604492#post9604492) is up for review. I need a final critique to check for any omissions, oversights and errors, and then it's one thing we can probably strike from the unfinished list.
I really think the growing 'unfinished' list is due to a stagnant review process. Things need to be streamlined, and I suspect the current methodology needs to be altered. As far as I can tell, there's not many/any creatures that've been fully critiqued and endorsed in 10 pages of this thread, and that points to things needing to change before this project slows to a complete halt. The recent schism apparently didn't help, and I think some might've just abandoned the project rather than go searching for the right thread to post in. We need to get things rolling again.

[Kajhera]

Most things changed for both critiques, though I am a bit wary of what its starting languages actually *are*.

Admittedly, I didn't change anything at 1st level, but I'm open to ideas.

The grappling rules for grappling with one of your natural weapons are ... somewhere other than the normal grappling rules. Monster manual? I suppose I should restate them in a part?

[ScionoftheVoid]

Hey, I'd like to work on this project. The last time I promised that whenever I promise that I never showed up again, however, so please PM me if I'm not back in two weeks. I might be able to work on something this week, as long as its only maybe ten levels long. *Goes to look over the requested monsters*

[Kajhera]

Hey, I'd like to work on this project. The last time I promised that whenever I promise that I never showed up again, however, so please PM me if I'm not back in two weeks. I might be able to work on something this week, as long as its only maybe ten levels long. *Goes to look over the requested monsters*

Hey, welcome. :smallsmile: Maybe a Remorhaz? It's seven levels! Okay, I'm sure there are other interesting requested classes too. What we really need right now are reviews, of course. :smallamused:

[Rumel]

I would like to nominate the purple worm... It seems like a great monster...

[Kajhera]

I would like to nominate the purple worm... It seems like a great monster...

It is a great monster! It's just a little long for me to read through and be sure I haven't missed anything. :smallsigh: If everyone else will assure me it's well-edited as well as well-made, I'll throw my nomination in. :smallwink:

[Kobold-Bard]

Ok, getting to work on the Lamassu.

Since melding Lamassu & Golden Protector into a single class wasn't well recieved I figured I'd try a different idea. What do people think of me taking Cleric casting out of the Golden Protector and boosting it's inherent abilities instead. So you can either go pure Lamassu/Cleric to get casting, or lose a couple of spell levels and get some other sexy abilities that are more powerful than the srd G. Protector.

It'll make the PrC more of a choice rather than a necessity.

Thoughts?

[Kajhera]

Ok, getting to work on the Lamassu.

Since melding Lamassu & Golden Protector into a single class wasn't well recieved I figured I'd try a different idea. What do people think of me taking Cleric casting out of the Golden Protector and boosting it's inherent abilities instead. So you can either go pure Lamassu/Cleric to get casting, or lose a couple of spell levels and get some other sexy abilities that are more powerful than the srd G. Protector.

It'll make the PrC more of a choice rather than a necessity.

Thoughts?

Have you posted either of these yet, or were you still working on them too much?

[ScionoftheVoid]

Hey, welcome. :smallsmile: Maybe a Remorhaz? It's seven levels! Okay, I'm sure there are other interesting requested classes too. What we really need right now are reviews, of course. :smallamused:

I just looked over the list. The Remorhaz and Morhg are of appropriate size, but the first has Swallow Whole, Heat, size increases and bullrush stuff to fit in seven levels and I'm not confident about Swallow Whole. The second is Undead (not confident about balancing it), has a paralysis ability (not confident about balancing it) and is pretty bland apart from that (not sure how to make it interesting, though I have some ideas).

I'm either going to do the Gargoyle (how do we not have one of these already?) or go and do some reviews (which are not from a great homebrewer or someone who has a great many books to compare the original creatures to) until something I feel I can do is requested.

Also, because I haven't gotten a response since yesterday or a full PEACH at all, my Sealed Force class (here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179289)) would work quite well as something to go into for some monsters. Just saying, you know, we may as well all review things at the same time.:smalltongue: But seriously, I'm just quite impatient and I've been checking it all day.

[Kobold-Bard]

Have you posted either of these yet, or were you still working on them too much?

I posted it in Gorgon's thread, but the combined class was given the seal of disapproval & since then I've just been putting it off.

[bladesmith]

Hey, throwing my 2cp in again.

Gibbering Mouther:
1) Not sure what is going on with the BAB. It looks like 1/2(poor) progression, but it starts with a +1 at first level. 1/2 and 3/4 BAB have a +0 at first level, with the rounding down and stuff. The save progression is all wonky, too. There is a table somewhere in the thread that should help, or just look at any of the classes in the PHB and use good/bad saves from that.
2) For Gibbering, do you think you could come up with something between Confusion and Insanity? There are a lot of levels where the ability is the same, while everyone else is getting new stuff. Not sure how much of a problem that is or how hard it would be to find something else, but it seems a little... Off.
3) I like how you made it harder to get out of being Engulfed, but I'm still not sure what the DR/- is about. Also, is it just 2 failed saves, or 2 consecutive rounds with the Mouther attached? Just asking, because with as many bite attacks as it has, you could pretty easily get two bites on a target and Engulf them right off the bat. Hilarious and awesome, but it might need a little clarification. Maybe. Either that, or I just suck at making sense out of things like this.
Other then that, I like this class. For a seething monstrosity of craziness, it has a bunch of fun stuff that could make it an interesting character. While it might be better as a villain(confusion will affect teammates as well), I like the propensity it has for cutting off retreat with Ground Manipulation, a ranged attack option(at the perfect range for sneak attack!), and generally holding the opponents down when it does get into melee.

Umber Hulk: Can I say how much I like this concept right off the bat? Giant bug that beats people with whatever weapon is at hand? Heck yeah!
1) Huh. D8 hit die and 3/4 BAB seem a little on the low side for a primary melee-ist, but it makes sense as an aberration with a bunch of cool combat abilities.
2) There seems to be an extra line with "Umber Hulk" all by itself under Class Features. And 'by' should probably be 'buy' when it comes to armor.
3) With Object=Pain, does the person-flail take any damage from being used to smack enemies around? It seems like they should...
4) With Wreck the Earth, the Ref save= 1/2 STR seems a little on the low side. I mean, I know that your should be sending your strength into the stratosphere with this class, but even if you get your strength up to 30, the DC is only 15. However, maybe that is the way you want it, with only the people that really flub their saves to fall over. Even so, something more conventional might work better. Also, perhaps give a bonus on the save if they have 5 ranks in balance, or something like that. You might also want to redo the save on the 12HD flying version to something more conventional, too.
5) Does WAAAAARRRGGG! end if the bonus hit points you get from the CON increase puts you over 25% of your original HP? I'd have to work out the math, but I think it could also put you over 25% of your new HP, so what happens then? Still, I would not want to be anywhere near a wounded, raging Umber Hulk, just by looking at this. Which means that you are doing a great job with this class.
6) The Tools of the Trade weapons don't feel much like improvised weapons to me. Maybe something about them falling apart after a confirmed crit, or a nat. 1 on an attack roll. However, this isn't really necessary, so much as a flavor thing.
This class is AWESOME. I would play this in a heartbeat, just because you go around wrecking things, then using the wreckage to wreck other things. How much cooler can you get?

More to critique to come, hopefully. If you guys don't mind my "lowest common denominator of understanding" perspective.

[Kajhera]

Mind? Throw us more reviews! :smallwink:

Kobold-Bard, might want to put up a link then. Getting to Gorgon's thread is increasingly difficult (it fell off the first page).

[monkman]

I am going to endorse nominate the swarm shifter and the Ankheg,They look like 2 solide classes.

Anyways would an ability like this

Bonded By Undeath:You "acquire" a Undeaf servant to serve your whims. You gain a Undead as a cohort that is always Friendly towards you, but cannot take the Leadership feat, or any other version of it (Like Undead Leadership). The Undead's HD is equal to your own minus 8. If your Undead servant would be slain, you may aquire another one by finding a appriate body and doing a ritual that takes one hour and 500gp worth of reagents.
Work?(I want to replace the animate dead(also if my wording is bad, Then anyone,is allowed to corect it))

[Kobold-Bard]

Mind? Throw us more reviews! :smallwink:

Kobold-Bard, might want to put up a link then. Getting to Gorgon's thread is increasingly difficult (it fell off the first page).

No, I'm going to do them again from scratch, just wanted people's opinion on the idea first. The SRD G. Protector gets some abilities and continues the Lamassu's cleric progression, I wanted to drop the spellcasting in favour of better abilities and wanted to make sure I wouldn't get some major objection for the change.

[Kajhera]

I would not, personally, be willing to give up access to both leadership and undead leadership for a cohort 6 levels worse.

[monkman]

I would not, personally, be willing to give up access to both leadership and undead leadership for a cohort 6 levels worse.

Any ideas on how to change it?

[Kajhera]

Any ideas on how to change it?

Don't tie it to other feats, and make it something like a familiar, blackguard's servant, animal companion, or wild cohort instead?

Mainly, don't tie it to other feats, and don't make it such low hit dice to get killed and turned constantly if it follows you around.

Still have it impose a penalty (as familiar) on leadership score to find a cohort.

[AugustNights]

A: I will make a splinterthread for werewhathaveyous, probably in about three days. I figure it can be a branch of niche-branch of this project, with perhaps a link in the listed monsters? This way we can avoid spamming the threads as Hyudra has suggested, and we can continue making ridiculous werethings.

B: I believe there was a vote for to return to the old means of only posting one monster at a time. I propose 3, with 1 at 'priority.' This way people can unword document monsters while they wait, and will be encouraged to focus on one monster at a time. I know I'm super busy right now, and with the rate the thread is growing my critique time will be limited.

[TheGeckoKing]

For Bonded in Service, HD-8 is a but much, so I would just bump the HD to HD-2. Now, as for the Umber Hulk, I have some fixin' to do!

[Kajhera]

A: I will make a splinterthread for werewhathaveyous, probably in about three days. I figure it can be a branch of niche-branch of this project, with perhaps a link in the listed monsters? This way we can avoid spamming the threads as Hyudra has suggested, and we can continue making ridiculous werethings.

B: I believe there was a vote for to return to the old means of only posting one monster at a time. I propose 3, with 1 at 'priority.' This way people can unword document monsters while they wait, and will be encouraged to focus on one monster at a time. I know I'm super busy right now, and with the rate the thread is growing my critique time will be limited.

I've imposed a personal limit on myself of 2, and have a trumpet archon partly written waiting in the wings for when the Ankheg is done. :smallwink: Though it still needs work. That sounds like a reasonable suggestion, and happily a factor of the number of nominations a monster needs! Err, I think I've been trying to work out aesthetically pleasing progressions too much...

[Hyudra]

I might propose a stricter limit of 1 creature in process at a time, until we get this backlog of unfinished monsters done.

Batch of reviews coming.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Okay, read through the Animated Object. I have one thing to say. Bad Magicyop, too many at will abilities!

Codex and Religious artifact need to be on uses/day and have a limit to how expensive the material components and focuses can be to qualify.

Crystalline Resonance is way too powerful, Psi-likes auto-augment, and it is also at will!:smallannoyed:

No comment on Ancient Tactics - which seems okay - or Soul Crafted - I do not have the experience with Incarnum to judge.

Spray needs an area, probably a line or cone.

Musical allows things at will, when it is really not necessary (you get one Bardic Music use per HD anyway, which is either all you need or all that's balanced).

Mirror, Mirror could use a minimum required HD and should not be at will, especially not without an HD limit.

Selection, please no. Unless they can't normally wear magic items (in which case I missed that and my complaints on this matter are not valid) this just needs to go. More than normal magic item slots is very bad, particularly if it's based on a stat, which you can then boost with magic items to let you wear even more. That should be kept in mind even if they can't normally wear magic items (base it on HD or something).

Psychedelic... I don't know. It probably needs the same treatment as Codex and Religious Artifact, at least, but it really depends on the spell chosen. Maybe give a specific list?

Get all that sorted and I'll be happy to reevaluate for a possible nomination. *dives into Phrenic Creature*


Phrenic Creature

First thing, the requirements seem kind of odd, anything other than voluntary transformation would be odd requiring Knowledge: Psionics ranks. That's not a mark against it for me, it just seems wierd.

Second, it looks good. I'm wary of Psi-like abilities, and I'm drawing a blank on what 1/X/day would be if X were anything other than 1, but I don't think it could be awful with the praise I've read for it.

Assuming you can help me with the math bit that's currently hurting my brain, I'm happy to give a nomination. *next up is the Swarmshifter*


Swarmshifter

That was a quick read. Overall it seems good, interesting and worth your while taking.

What the Druid's Wild Shape is based on has changed several times, so saying exactly what you gain and lose couldn't hurt. I assume there is no size restriction for component members of the swarm, because otherwise this wouldn't work at all. That presents a problem due to immunity to weapon damage, in a project where even DR seems to be handed out rather sparingly.

Size refers to size category, you want space of a creature however many sizes larger or smaller than you.

Relying on the DM to balance is a bit slack and the CR system is known to be fallible, but the CR=HD-1 limitation helps. I'd prefer a set swarm damage/HD and a table of additional effects with minimum HD limits to just "pick a swarm", to be honest. Less chance to dumptser-dive for the strongest form for munchkins, less looking through the MM and printing additional sheets for each form for the casual players and less reason for the DM to always be on edge. These classes are supposed to be easy to use, and that really isn't (though it's a problem shared by many official things, that doesn't make it okay). I'll gladly help with suggestions for additional effects, as I'm sure many others on the project will.

I'm sorry, but I can't honestly give this a nomination. *next up, the Grell*

Sorry, but this looks great on the surface, less so in-depth. I can't

[Benly]

The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.

The image of a Pandorym shard flying around bonking into people to attack seems a bit at odds with its overall aesthetic, even at first level. An odd thing that came to mind while reading it is the idea of giving it a very short-range teleportation PLA that initially takes more than a move action to use to compensate for being in the best movement mode - most rounds it can't move, but when it does it ignores intervening obstacles. As it levels up, the range of the teleport would scale up and the action required would scale down to be more in line with available movement modes. This would require replacing the slam attack, probably with an at-will short-range PLA that has similar damage and scaling.

Just a thought, though. I just like the idea of the shard moving by just being somewhere else the next time you look at it.

edit: awesome, I am the slowpoke who doesn't notice there's another page of stuff after the page I read. :smallannoyed:

[Hyudra]

Yellow Musk Creeper

D8 seems like a lot of HD for a vine. I really would have conceptualized the creature as a low HD parasite rather than a beefy tank.
BAB/Saves seem ok.
Skills:
It has bluff/diplomacy, but can't speak?
Sense motive on a plant seems... unusual. In fact, all of the Cha skills do.
Photosynthesis: Kind of runs against natural inclinations. Creeping vines, particularly parasitic ones, are antiphototropic. That is, they grow away from natural light. They get their energy from whatever they're preying on (other plants or in case of carnivorous plants, insects/animals).
This makes sense flavorwise too; do you see a Yellow Musk Creeper growing on a rock in an open field, or do you see it growing in the shadowy regions of a dank swamp or the deepest area of a forest?
Musk Puff: I'm not sure I like the notion of musk puff being used as a 200' targeted attack at level 20. I might suggest it would be a ray attack, no damage, force fort save on hit.
Further, 1d8 per 2HD rounds is... a really long time. Long enough that most creatures the party runs against would be almost guaranteed to fall victim to it. Is that necessary? What's the design goal?
I'd make the "You suffer no penalty for having opponents in your space (or even being grappled?) a separate ability of the class. You're a vine, after all.
'might even affect companions' - Needs more defined rules. When will a creature attack friends? Will they use their full complement of abilities?
Ability Score Bonuses: Stat bonuses seem ok balancewise. Designwise, a little one dimensional. It's... not what I'd first think of when conceptualizing the class.
Mind Eater: I'd rework this to operate as an automatic aspect of a successful grapple. Easy to visualize the one guy who refuses to be puffed, wrestling with the vine to keep the tendrils from piercing his brain.
Flowering: I like ability options. Let's see...
Musk bomb is good.
Spore sniping is kinda redundant. After 4th level, you shouldn't ever have range issues with it.
I do not like Focused Blossom. Maybe tie it to iterative attacks in BAB?
Creeper is ok, but I might change it to allow someone to take it multiple times, with a bonus other than the +4 move silently each time.
Plant Strength is kinda a lame name for an ability. The ability also references zombies, which doesn't come up until later in the class. A mite confusing and awkward. (You can get a bonus to zombie strength well before you have zombies to control).
Halo of Tendrils - I don't like it. The class has a good flavor of drawing enemies into one's embrace, and this breaks that flavor.
Also, the word Permanent really, really, really bugs me. I can imagine a DM having an argument with a player over the fact that the yellow musk creeper the player fought permanently left vines/flowers sticking out of the character's head.
Greenery Shield is ok, but given the issues I take with the anti-flavor of photosynthesis, the regeneration buff may be problematic. The reference to regeneration has same issues as plant strength, in referring to class features that haven't been detailed yet.
Growth - The powerful build thing is kind of a trademark of giants and giant types, which I personally worked on. I can't say I adore that, or how it's used/outlined here. Also, the colossal yellow musk plant... I can't really see it. In reading the class, this is where it really feels like it's straying wholesale from the concept & implementation of the core monster.
Yellow Musk Zombies - Too powerful, by far. It's too easy to get a mess of zombies, and with the stat bonuses you can pick up, you can make them absolute monsters.
You're talking about a 15th level PC having 60HD of minions under its sway. More than that, we must remember that HD doesn't always correlate to CR, so you could have some low HD, higher CR threats under your control, giving you an absolutely ridiculous boost in raw power. Further, this hurts the group dynamic. Why have teammates when you're a one character army?

Honestly, not the way I would've conceptualized the class. My own approach would've been to have a relatively vulnerable, slow moving plant (with class abilities allowing it to root in a host, and mitigate vulnerabilities) with the ability to control a more narrow selection of minions. So you'd be a fairly narrow and one-trick character as a PC, but you'd have a wealth of options as far as keeping, say, a maximum of 3 zombies at a given time.


Gibbering Mouther

Stick to standard BAB progression. I don't fault you - this was one of the first complaints I got about my first creation (Hill Giant). Copy the progression from one of the classic classes. I advise against full BAB; instead, I might recommend roguelike BAB progression and a strength bonus.
Skill points look fine.
Under proficiencies, you use it's where you should have 'its'.
Strange Body:
Name 'Strange Body' is a little too generic. To prevent overlap with other monster classes in the future, perhaps rename to Gibbering Body or such?
I'd slow down the progression of bite attacks, just a smidge. There seems to be this trend (Grell, Gibbering Mouther, Yellow Musk) of having this insane progression for number of natural attacks. Remember, you're comparing yourself to a standard PC who gets +1 attack at 6th level.
It's a bit weird to imagine a Gibbering Mouther using a greatsword. Might I suggest allowing fine manipulation but barring weapon use?
Given the amorphous nature of a gibbering mouther, not sure I like the fact that he can wear armor.
You need an entry explaining the stat growth (+con). The stat growth is a bit feeble. I'd recommend less than full BAB, no ability to wear standard armor, but higher Str and Con to compensate. Anything else would feel weird.
Blood Drain
"or take 1d4 points of damage for each attached mouth and cannot move" is a bit awkwardly worded, and seems to imply a creature a gibbering mouther is attached to can move away from the mouther if they make the save.
"The Mouther then gains the same amount of HP." - I'd clarify this. ie. The mouther gains HP equal to the damage done via. Blood Drain.
"If he succeeds, the mouth is removed." - if who succeeds? The person making the saving throw mentioned sentences ago, or the mouther? Read one way, the victim breaks free on a successful save. Read another, a successful blood drain breaks the hold.
"Add an extra d4 for damage from each mouth latched per 5 HD." - Again, confusingly worded and confusingly placed in the description. Is this extra d4 added to healing, or to damage done?
"The Gibbering Mouther loses one bite attack for each mouth latched on at the time." - Hate to say it, but again, this is confusingly worded. I'd clarify to state "A mouth attached to an enemy cannot be used to deliver a bite attack."
It bears stating: Can the Gibbering Mouther break the hold of its own volition?
Spittle:
"emit a spittle" reads wrongly. Translates to, like, "Push out a drool." You probably mean, like, "fire a line of spittle."
Otherwise fine.
Gibbering:
Hurts teammates.
"One per day per 3 HD" should be "Once per day per 3 HD".
I agree with bladesmith, it doesn't get much more interesting with levels. Which doesn't do a lot for the creature, given that it is a trademark ability. I'd suggest creating your own set of abilities (kind of what I did with Harpy) to make it more diverse and fun.
I'm not sure I like weird as the final stage. Seems a little out of place
Ground manipulation:
I'm interested to know why you changed it from the effect in the creature entry, as far as the type of action it requires and how fast it works.
Engulf:
Again, you mean "failed its save two times", not "failed it's save two times". Ditto for "although it's DC increases".
Unlike bladesmith, I have no issue with the DR/-.
Growth is fine.
Re: Comments, I don't think it's overpowered. I just think the number of mouths needs to be toned down. Clarify that it can speak, tidy up some moar of the grammars, and take a little bit to think about making Gibber more interesting and usable.


Ankheg (Awakened)

Admittedly, this is one creature I would've aimed to do myself, had I not been busy (and if I'd been able to solve the Dumb Brute conundrum in Purple Worm - making low-int creatures viable as PCs without breaking flavor). With that in mind...

Table formatting, right off that bat: Consider shortening Base Attack Bonus to BAB, and having the saves shortened to Fort, Ref & Will. Will make the table tidier (that, or copy-paste another table from another monster entry and replace the data.) As is, it looks a little distorted.
D12 HD, less than full BAB progression, one good save, 2 skill points a level. I'm looking at this and telling myself the bug had better get something good to compensate, because it's not gonna thrive, as is.
Insectoid Body:
Like I said for the gibbering mouther, I really urge people to be specific with naming the 'body' abilities. Being too vague will create overlap, with multiple monsters potentially having 'insectoid body'. Creates ugliness if you were to, say, gestalt monster classes. Rename to Ankheg body?
Burrow speed at 1st level is problematic for much the same reason flight is. You can't burrow and snipe at people from underground, but other shenanigans are possible. I faced this issue with my own purple worm, and gave it slow progression.
Burrowing through adamantine - I predict some player trying to use this to justify their attacks going through an enemy's armor. I don't think the exotic material burrowing is necessary.
Tremorsense is fine.
Please, please, please state what level an ability is gained, in the ability description. It's a pain to constantly backtrack to the table to double check. For anyone critiquing (me) and anyone playing the class.
Tunneling:
Creating a 5'x5'x15' tunnel as fast as you're describing is a bit much, I think. Also, this kind of breaks campaigns. Consider how this impacts a group's progression through a dungeon, past major threats, etc.
Lunge:
Is more or less fine, though I still take issue with low level burrowing, but I see a lot of Ankhegs going into Rogue for the sneak attack damage. I might rework the flatfootedness.
Ant Lion Attack:
You get it at 2nd level, and it oftentimes does nothing. By which I mean, you can drag a creature 5' per 3 HD... but if you have only 2HD, it's a useless ability. Move to 3rd level or give it a minimum 5' drag? Consider a cap on the maximum, too.
Thinking of ways to abuse it... an Ankheg needs to cover a lot of ground in combat, so he moves a full 30', grapples a teammate, who voluntarily fails the grapple check, then ankheg moves X' underground as bonus movement.
What happens if you drag an opponent underground and leave them there?
It says you 'may' take them with you. What happens if you don't?
Spit Acid:
A bit weak when compared to dragon's breath weapons. Single target vs. AoE, lower damage. Needs something to spice it up. A bonus effect or something.
Growth:
Again, I don't think we should be using staggered powerful build. To me, it's a Giant & Gigantic creature thing. Just give it steady growth.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Grell

Very good class. Only potential problem I can spot is Blindsight with reasonable range. Maybe have Blindsight to 10ft+5ft per HD and Blindsense out to twice that distance (so 20ft+10ft per HD), or better yet Blindsight to 10ft+5ft per HD and Electricity Sense (sense electricity within 100ft, as a Shocker Lizard). I could be overreacting but a non-Core feat or spell (and a fairly high level spell at that) is needed to avoid Blindsight unless you manage to block line of effect (Snake-style box?), whilst normal sight is far more easily defeated and since Grell are naturally blind they get immunities on top of seeing better than a human does.

I assume you wanted the Bite to be usable only from within another creature's space (which is what 0ft reach means).

Not quite ready to nominate, convince me on or change the Blindsight and I'll be happy to give my nomination.

(Awakened) Ankheg

I looked through this one earlier and loved it. I'd personally move the burrow speed up to 10ft/2 HD, for simplicity if nothing else (so I move 3.33ft as a move action? That's not enough to take me into another space, what happens, exactly? Do I need a double move to get anywhere?) and clarify whether or not you can charge or run whilst burrowing. The class is still perfectly usable even without that, so I give it my nomination.

[TheGeckoKing]

@ScionoftheVoid
I actually though about a customizable swarm because the original Swarmshifter is slightly customizable (You get a form to pick when you get the template), but then I remembered how annoying customizable classes are to make. Seriously. I'd have to make about 3 different effects for every HD past 3HD and that means about 55+ effects, or i'll end up with about 10 different things you can pick and it'll just be boring. The psedo-Wild Shape stays. I'll make the wording clearer though, so thanks for catching that.

[ScionoftheVoid]

@ScionoftheVoid
I actually though about a customizable swarm because the original Swarmshifter is slightly customizable (You get a form to pick when you get the template), but then I remembered how annoying customizable classes are to make. Seriously. I'd have to make about 3 different effects for every HD past 3HD and that means about 55+ effects, or i'll end up with about 10 different things you can pick and it'll just be boring. The psedo-Wild Shape stays. I'll make the wording clearer though, so thanks for catching that.

Why not just give the basic stuff (poison, etc.) and a few extras and having them scale? I'll back off, though. I'll need to go over it again before considering a nomination.

[Benly]

You're talking about a 15th level PC having 60HD of minions under its sway. More than that, we must remember that HD doesn't always correlate to CR, so you could have some low HD, higher CR threats under your control, giving you an absolutely ridiculous boost in raw power. Further, this hurts the group dynamic. Why have teammates when you're a one character army?

Honestly, not the way I would've conceptualized the class. My own approach would've been to have a relatively vulnerable, slow moving plant (with class abilities allowing it to root in a host, and mitigate vulnerabilities) with the ability to control a more narrow selection of minions. So you'd be a fairly narrow and one-trick character as a PC, but you'd have a wealth of options as far as keeping, say, a maximum of 3 zombies at a given time.

I would say you're half right here. The problem isn't the quantity of minions - you even acknowledge that HD doesn't correlate to CR, and a character who puts any amount of serious effort into necromancy can match the yellow musk creeper on sheer numbers. A fairly large HD value of shambling meat shields just isn't a problem - 60 HD of Animate Dead-quality minions at level 15 is slightly worse than hiring four appropriate-level human warrior bodyguards, and those guys aren't all that great to begin with. (Alternately you could have a few dozen low-HD minions, in which case you've established excellent bait for a single enemy Fireball.) The problem, I would say, is the quality of minions.

Yellow Musk Zombies are a lot nastier than regular, non-chia zombies. As enemies, this makes sense - the idea of the yellow musk creeper is that it threatens a fight against your zombified buddies, and if they lose all their abilities that's not terribly threatening. As a PC minion, it's a problem. Reducing it to 3 zombies or reducing the HD limit doesn't really remove the problem, since it only takes one brainjacked CR 8 10HD efreet to break the game (or whatever low-HD high-power spell-like/supernatural-wielding monstrosity you prefer.) What reducing the number does is make sure that you never want to brainjack a boring old giant or animal because you want to have room when a beholder comes along. In other words, it makes your musk zombie selection as far from the archetypal brain-drained zombie slaves as possible, which may not be desirable.

An idea comes to mind to address the issue, but it's kind of weirdly complicated so it's probably not the best option. Divide yellow musk zombies into lesser and greater, allowing the creeper to keep a brute squad of lesser zombies and "promote" a level-limited number to greater zombies. Lesser zombies lose their Sp and Su abilities and are basically expendable meat shields. Greater zombies regain Sp and Su abilities, but cannot use any that duplicate spells of the same or higher level than the highest-level spell a wizard of level equal to the creeper's HD could use.

It's kind of clunky, but that's the idea that comes to mind.

[Hyudra]

The Swarmshifter

Needs more requirements for entry, IMHO, if just flavorful ones.
Under requirements, you probably meant 'corporeal'.
Buzzing Flesh:
[list] Shapeshifter isn't a type. You mean Shapechanger.
'Typing' is the wrong word. You mean type.
Friend of the Plague:
Bizarre ability. I don't see the point.
Swarm Form:
So if I want to use this ability, I need to double check the druid entry & look up wildshape? No. Please outline the type of action it takes, the progression, etc, in the skill description.
"Certain forms may be banned for the sake of balance." - You need to outline which, or rework the ability. Leaving it up to the DM is lazy and just leads to issues coming up & having to be fixed, over & over.
You can go two routes. Route 1 is to just define a specific swarm form & outline ability progression for that swarm form over 20-ish levels.
Route 2 is to make a list of allowed/banned forms.

Until either route 1 or route 2 is successfully implemented, I strongly urge people not to nominate or endorse this class. There's too many potential issues as is, and 'certain forms may be banned for sake of balance' is a lazy shortcut. The various alternate form/polymorph/shapechange abilities have been revised and altered countless times in 3.5's history, and a swarm specific list of forms.

[TheGeckoKing]

Oh for crying out loud........you expect everyone who uses this class to be a Munchkin. Fine. I'll go and try to give it scaling abilities, but now it's gonna take me near an eternity to do it because i've also got Pandorym to do.

[Rumel]

I think I'm going to take on the Demi-Lich... It seems very strait forward and would be very fun to make... I'm just wondering if a meta-magic feat every 3 levels is too much (I want it to have better spell casting since it has no body... Maybe every 4 hmm...) also, should I make it a PrC for phylactery owners, or a base class?

[TheGeckoKing]

I'd say go for an Prc. A base class would
1. Take ages
2. Be a bit wierd.

[Rumel]

I'd say go for an Prc. A base class would
1. Take ages
2. Be a bit wierd.

Should I make it for Lichs only, or for any skeleton-like undead (or somewhere in-between)?

[LOTRfan]

Honestly, but this is just me, I'd make Lich a base class and Demi-Lich be a prestige class. Granted, its been a while since I've read the Epic Level Handbook, but isn't the Demi-Lich template only applicable to Liches and Dracoliches?

EDIT: Just read the post above. I'd let Liches, Dracoliches, and Illithiliches join, only.

[Rumel]

Honestly, but this is just me, I'd make Lich a base class and Demi-Lich be a prestige class. Granted, its been a while since I've read the Epic Level Handbook, but isn't the Demi-Lich template only applicable to Liches and Dracoliches?

EDIT: Just read the post above. I'd let Liches, Dracoliches, and Illithiliches join, only.

One last thing... What should the ability scores be... +1 to all (Wis, Int and Cha) every level, just Cha, alternating or two a level?

[Kajhera]

I just can't win with how I phrase the grell's bite attack, can I? :smallconfused: At least you understood what it meant. :smallsmile:

Blindsight: A first-level psicrystal gets something approaching this to 40'. It felt somewhat crippling to reduce it much further, since it's already quite weak to ranged attacks, not having sight. Giving a bit of blindsense could help make up for that, though. Also, probably a good idea to have blindsight that extends as far as you can reach. For a first-level grell with a whip, they can make semi-ranged attacks to within 20', so it would be odd if they couldn't 'see' that far.

[LOTRfan]

I dunno. I've never actually participated in this thread before, so don't know the power level that is needed. Sorry I can't be much help.

[Kajhera]

I dunno. I've never actually participated in this thread before, so don't know the power level that is needed. Sorry I can't be much help.

Swordsage would probably be a good model. :smallsmile:

[Niezck]

Lich is a template, therefore it's a prestige class. Demilich is a template, therefore it's a prestige class. Simple.

Demilich should be as widely accessible as possible, but do consider the existing requirement that you are a Lich, so requite it to have at least 1 level in the Lich class, along with all the other shpiel (X HD minimum, ability to craft the phylacteries etc) - in a similar way to the Ulitharid requires at least one level in the Illithid class.

Moar critique on moar things to come later, when I'm less dead.

[TheGeckoKing]

Right, i've specified how Swarmshifting works. I'm still not making a custmizable swarm feature, because quite frankly, I don't want to. It's too much work for a 1 level PRC and is rife with balance problems. Therefore, either someone suggests a list of acceptable forms to give it or I leave it as it is.

DemiLich - Can/Should Dry Liches qualify?

[Benly]

Oh for crying out loud........you expect everyone who uses this class to be a Munchkin.

It's unreasonable to be expecting every player to go out of his way to break the game, but it's also unreasonable to be expecting every player to go out of his way not to. Part of what a homebrewer does is walk on those eggshells so the player doesn't have to. :smallsmile:

[TheGeckoKing]

Then I don't mind if someone says "A good list of acceptable forms would be this, Gecko". However, i'm not doing some exaustive customizable list where you can build your own swarm, because that's just taking the gecko.

[Gorgondantess]

It's unreasonable to be expecting every player to go out of his way to break the game, but it's also unreasonable to be expecting every player to go out of his way not to. Part of what a homebrewer does is walk on those eggshells so the player doesn't have to. :smallsmile:

Amen.
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Nobody ever said making a complex PrC monster class would be easy.

[TheGeckoKing]

...........that's the point. It's not supposed to be complex. If it started complex, fine. But it never started complex, and i'm not making it complex.

[Kobold-Bard]

Lammasu
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oqfkFpDFKfU/S5OgNtJ7o-I/AAAAAAAAAss/KUoDOiL6TBM/s320/lammasu.jpg

Class:
Hit Dice: d6
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+0|+2|+0|+0|Lammasu Body, Holy Shield
2|+1|+3|+0|+0|Gatekeeper, Rake, +1 Str
3|+2|+3|+1|+1|Divine Connection
4|+3|+4|+1|+1|Flight, Lammasu Magic
5|+3|+4|+1|+1|Growth, Healing Hands
6|+4|+5|+2|+2|Pounce, +1 Wis
7|+5|+5|+2|+2|Shining Light
8|+6/+1|+6|+2|+2|Greater Lamassu Magic[/table]
Skill Points: 4+Int Mod (x4 at first level) Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot

Proficiencies: Lammasu are proficient with their own natural weapons, no armour & no shields.

Class Features:

Lammasu Body (Ex): At first level the Lammasu loses all racial traits and features, and gains the Traits of a Magical Beast.
- It is a Medium Magical Beast with a base land speed of 30ft.
- It has two primary claw attacks that deal 1d4+Str damage each and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d6+1/2 Str damage.
- Lammasu are capable of the fine manipulation necessary for spellcasting (but not wielding conventional weapons) and Lammasu levels stack with Cleric levels for spell progression & Caster Level, and Lammasu levels that advance spellcasting (3HD and onwards) may count as Cleric levels for the purpose of qualifying for PrCs.
- It gains a Natural Armour bonus equal to it's Con Mod.
- Though it has wings they cannot yet sustain flight, though they do grant it a +4 racial bonus on jump checks.

Holy Shield (Su): The Lammasu may benefit from a Protection from Evil effect for 1 minute/HD each day. This effect must last for a minimum of 1 minute each time it is activated, but once activated it may be deactivated with a free action. At 10HD this becomes a permanent effect.

Gatekeeper (Su): The Lammasu have a true legacy as guardians of homes and cities. 1/HD times each day they may designate a doorway, gate or archway as under it's protection. This effect lasts for 1 hour (or until it is dismissed as a free action) and anything attempting to pass through it must make a Will Save (DC 10+1/2HD+Wis Mod) or be unable to pass through it.
This doesn't prevent things from going over, under or around it, nor does it stop the protected area from being destroyed.

Rake (Ex): At third level the Lammasu gains the Rake (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#rake) ability.

A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. Rake attacks are not subject to the usual -4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple.

A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

Divine Connection (Ex): Despite not being Outsiders, Lammasu have an innate connection to the Upper Planes. From 3rd Level onwards the Lammasu may cast spells as a Cleric of their Lammasu Level-2, choosing their 2 Domains from the following: Good, Healing, Knowledge & Law. They do not gain any other Cleric abilities such as Turn Undead, nor do they gain the special powers of their chosen Domains unless they take level sin the actual Cleric class later.

Flight (Ex): At fourth level the Lammasu's wings become strong enough to sustain flight. It gains a Fly speed of 30ft with average manoeuvrability. Their fly speed increases to 60ft at 12HD.

Lammasu Magic (Sp): From third level the Lammasu may duplicate an Invisibility spell 1/day for every 4HD it has.

Growth (Ex): At fifth level the Lammasu grows to Large size, its claws and bite damage increase one step and it gains a +1 bonus to it's natural armour bonus.

Healing Hands (Ex): Whenever a Lammasu casts a spell that cures hit point damage, it adds its Charisma modifier to the amount of damage healed. For instance, if a 5HD Lammasu with an 18 Charisma casts cure light wounds, it cures 1d8+3 points of damage normally, plus an additional 4 points of damage due to its Charisma bonus.

Pounce (Ex): From sixth level, if a lammasu charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

Shining Light (Su): At seventh level the Lammasu's Protection From Evil effect extends outwards, now functioning as a Magic Circle Against Evil.
As an added boon, 1/5HD each day the Lammasu may duplicate a Turn Undead effect within the range of this power (using your HD in place of Cleric level), except undead with 1/2 your HD + your Cha Mod or less are destroyed instead of just those with 1/2 your HD. This power may not be used for any other effect besides a Turn Undead action such as powering Divine Feats etc.

Greater Lammasu Magic (Sp): At 8th Level the Lammasu's spell-like abilities grow stronger. They're Invisibility SLA may now also duplicate Greater Invisibility if they wish (though they are still limited by the same amount of uses). They may also now use Dimension Door 1/day for each 6HD it has.

Comments:
Ok, thoughts?

Tried to make the G. Protector worth losing the cleric casting, not sure if I succeeded tbh. Needs some interesting abilities but couldn't think of any (as does the Lammasu, but didn't want to put anything extra in since it gets Cleric casting).

[Niezck]

Split them into seperate posts please, K-B.

[Kobold-Bard]

Golden Protector
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8756/cmanimauxfinallammasu.jpg

Class:

Pre-Reqs:
Class: Lammasu 4
Skill: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Know (Arcana) 4, Know (Religion) 4 ranks
Alignment: Lawful Good

Hit Dice: d10
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Golden Body, Breath Weapon, +1 Con
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Outsider Skin, Resist the Elements, White Light
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Dragon's Blood, Superior Protector
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Dragon's Wings, Smite, +1 Cha
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Supreme Protector[/table]

Class Features:

Golden Body: By taking the 1st level of this class the Lammasu dedicates itself to the cause of righteousness. As the sun rises the day after it chooses to take this first level the dawn light transforms it forever into a Golden Protector; the high kings of Lammasu kind.

It loses it's former racial traits and features and gains the traits of both the Dragon & Outsider types shown below.
Darkvision 60ft.
Low Light Vision.
Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.
It is native to Celestia and gains the Extraplanar subtype when elsewhere. It also gains the Fire subtype.

At all times it is treated as having whichever of those two types is most beneficial to it at the time (eg. when subject to a banishment spell or a Bane/Favoured Enemy effect), though it's Extraplanar/Native & Fire subtypes always remains. This means that when killed the Golden Protector may consider itself a Dragon, meaning it can be resurrected as normal.

- When it enters this class it's claw & bite attacks gained from Lammasu levels increase their damage by one step.[/INDENT]
- It gains a Natural Armour bonus equal to it's Con Mod (this overlaps with other similar bonuses).
- (If it doesn't already have a natural mode of flight) It has wings that cannot yet sustain flight, though they do grant it a +4 bonus on jump checks.

It also gains a +2 racial bonus on spot checks.

Golden Protector levels 2-5 advance spellcasting gained by the Divine Connection Lammasu ability. Levels 1 does not advance any spellcasting.

Breath Weapon (Su): Every 1d4 rounds the Protector may unleash a cone of flame from it's mouth. This cone is 5ft+5ft/HD long, except Golden Protector levels count as a 10ft increase instead of 5ft. It deals 1d6 points of fire damage/2HD, with a Reflex Save for 1/2 damage (10+Con Mod+1/2 HD+Golden Protector level).

Outsider Skin (Ex): At second level the Protector becomes much tougher and harder to kill. It gains Damage Reduction equal to 1/2HD overcome by Magic & Evil weapons.

Resist the Elements (Ex): At second level the Protector gains resistance to either Acid, Cold or Electricity (player's choice) equal to 1/2 its HD.
At third and fourth level it gains another resistance from the remaining choices on the above list.
Once made these choices cannot be changed.

White Light (Su): The Protector may use a Dayight effect (as the spell) at will. It also mocks those that live in the dark; Drow, Vampires, and any other creatures that are weakened or damaged by light take a -2 penalty to all d20 rolls while within 5ft/HD of the Protector.

Dragon's Blood (Ex): At third level the Protector develops a strong protection from magic. It gains Spell Resistance 11+HD.

Dragon's Wings (Ex): Either the Protector's fly speed increases by 30ft or it's manoeuvrability increases one step (eg. from Average to Good). If it could not yet fly it gains a fly speed of 30ft (Average).

Superior Protection (Sp): 1/day for each HD it has the Protector may use Shield Other as an SLA. It is also always on the lookout for damage and can no longer flanked.

Smite (Su): From 4th level the Protector may suffuse a weapon it uses with immense energy 1/6 rounds. Activating this power is a free action and may only be used on a creature that opposes the Protector's alignment on at least one aspect. It grants a bonus on attack rolls equal to it's Cha Mod & a bonus to damage equal to it's HD.

Supreme Protector (Ex): At fifth Level the Protector becomes a sovereign even amongst it's peers.

From now on, 1/2 of the Protector's Breath Weapon damage is pure divine energy, meaning it is not resisted by any means short of a Divine Salient Ability.
It's Smite ability is now usable 1/5 rounds and may be applied to all natural attacks in a full attack or charge.

It may also 1/day call on the aid of Gold Dragons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9260930&postcount=187). As a Full round action it may summon between 1 & 5 Gold Dragons, whose total combined HD may not be greater than your HD-1. They remain for 1 minute/Protector's HD and serve the Protector to the best of their abilities, though obviously they will not act against their alignment.

Because there are not that many Gold Dragons in the world, each time you call them they are the same individual dragons (thus they should have names at the very least). If a Dragon is killed whilst in your service you lose the amount of HD they had from your summoning supply for 1 week.

Adaptation:
DMs are encouraged to let non L/G characters may take this class, a single alignment was just use for ease of reading

If this is the case then the player may call a different type of Chromatic or Metallic Dragon to summon that shares one aspect of their alignment, and gains their energy based breath weapon (acid, cold, electricity or fire) instead. It is also native to the Outer Plane that matches it's alignment.

If the character is Neutral on the Good/Evil axis then their ritual completes at midday and the class is renamed Steel Guardian. If they are Evil then the ritual completes at midnight and it is renamed Obsidian Warder.

Comments:
Ok, thoughts?

Tried to make the G. Protector worth losing the cleric casting, not sure if I succeeded tbh. Needs some interesting abilities but couldn't think of any.

The summoning Dragons thing was the one thing I could come up with. Using the same dragons each time is (I hope) a nice way to set up the occassional plot hook, as well as giving the player a connection to them and see them as more than cannon fodder.

[TheGeckoKing]

Ooooooo. Shiny Shiny flying lions. I'll have to look at them tomorrow, however. Busy debating on what to do with Pandorym's Warp Jump.

[Hyudra]

I dunno. I've never actually participated in this thread before, so don't know the power level that is needed. Sorry I can't be much help.


Swordsage would probably be a good model. :smallsmile:

This. We're striving for around Tier 2-3 in balance. Not at the level of wizard, druid, erudite, archivist, artificer or cleric. More in the realm of Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psion, Binder, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Crusader, Bard or Swordsage.


Oh for crying out loud........you expect everyone who uses this class to be a Munchkin. Fine. I'll go and try to give it scaling abilities, but now it's gonna take me near an eternity to do it because i've also got Pandorym to do.

What I was talking about wasn't even munchkinism. It was just using a class feature with intelligence. Take one form for fast healing to get to 100% health after every encounter without using resources, take another for fire immunity, take another to burrow under an enemy's skin and then recorporeate to your non-swarm form to instagib your enemy, use another form (centipede) to inflict poison, then switch to another (spider?) to inflict a different poison. It's an insanely versatile ability.


...........that's the point. It's not supposed to be complex. If it started complex, fine. But it never started complex, and i'm not making it complex.

Actually, you did. You took a template that lets an undead adopt a single swarm form, and altered it so the undead in question could adopt any swarm form (with a reasonable but mild CR restriction). So you're forced to not just account for the balance of the class, but the balance of every creature your class can now turn into. And that's expounded by the fact that swarms are less of a combat creature and more of a "how are you going to deal with this" conundrum a DM throws at his/her PCs. Your swarmshifter turns the tables and puts the DM in an ugly spot where they're the one having to find interesting answers to everything you're now able to throw at them... and DMs are already busy, frazzled people. So yeah, I'm being pretty strict on this.

Fixing it is easy. Swarmshifter's adopt swarm ability lets him turn into one swarm. Whatever your first adopted swarm is, is the swarm you change into thereafter. Specify non-construct swarms to avoid the worst shenanigans, and if you feel brave, allow maybe 1-2 more forms to be adopted with high HD. (Like at 8 HD and 16 HD) No more toolbox shapeshifting.

[TheGeckoKing]

Oh, I give up. I have one idea. But it'll still be "Pick your own swarm", just limited.
EDIT: Done. You can still pick your fancy, but you only get a number of swarms = your HD/2 to pick from, with the same CL limits.

[AugustNights]

Oh for crying out loud........you expect everyone who uses this class to be a Munchkin.

We want these classes balanced as close as we can. So yes, we must assume, to a certain degree, that anyone playing these classes will be a munchkin, a rules lawyer, and easily confused. We shouldn't leave balance up to DM fiat, its unskillful at the end of the day. That said, silly abuses of the rules have no business as a balancing point either, abuses that use Buckets of Water, Candles of Invocation, or 500 commoners standing in line aren't great examples of what is or isn't balanced.

However I do agree, the Swarmshifter would best be detailed as possible.
Recommendations should be rules.

[TheGeckoKing]

Well, now it's been specified on how it works, and you get a limited amout of forms to choose from. And that's as far as i'm going, because making it scale would be an almighty pain, or it'll be one of thoes classes that's put off until 20th level, to get a CR 19 swarm.

[Niezck]

Any more comments/suggestions for the Phrenic Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9910955&postcount=8)?

Also ...

Thorn

The Weapon of Thorns ability need some heavy rewording. The second paragraph is very confusing and makes little to no sense until you read the third paragraph. What I took from it was "I can make little thorns grow on a weapon I hold." which has no effect other than an aesthetic one.

Also, the ability itself is tremendously powerful. It's the ultimate 1 level dip for any melee character that needs a weapon. You only ever need to buy mundane weapons, then spend 5 minutes to give it bonuses better than those you could reasonably afford using WBL.

Perhaps allow it to only boost the item in this way for a certain number of rounds per encounter? HD rounds, or HD/2 rounds would be appropriate I think.

Protection of the Courts is fine.

Subduing strike is neat, I like it. Give a bonus d6 when using a thorn weapon maybe, to keep it themed with the weapons?

2*HD for Slumbering Shot is a bit much. Either make it at-will and tone it down, or make it limited and power it up. 2*HD is more than you're ever gonna need really. Perhaps allow it to be delivered through a melee attack instead, rather than forcing them into archery?

Melee weapon of barbs seems kind of odd - You're very unlikely to get enough hits on something to totally strip it's natural armour, as those with small NA tend to have low HP and those with enough HP to have it stripped will have more than 5. Perhaps reduce it by 1/4 for each hit (rounded down), totally ignoring it on the 5th hit, dealing the extra 50% damage and then resetting it to full again? Or perhaps reducing it by 1 per HD? Just some kind of scaling would be nice.

Have the ranged thorns cap at HD or something in terms of the penalties, otherwise I can forsee a lot of death by dex damage.

[b]I'm endorsing the Wendigo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9915426&postcount=46) as an "expert".

[Chambers]

Dwarf Ancestor
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98682.jpg


[Original Post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9578763&postcount=539)]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills: The dwarf ancestor's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: History (Int), Knowledge: The Planes (Int), Listen (Wis), & Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int mod) x4.
Skill Points at each additional level: 4+ Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special Ability
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Ancestor Body, Ancestral Spirit +1, Ancestral Knowledge, +1 Str
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Power Attack, Dwarven Warcraft, +1 Con
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Dwarven Hammer, Hardening, +1 Str
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Moderate Fortification, Ancestral Spirit +2, +1 Con
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Stone Hammer, Blink Out, Growth, +1 Str,
6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Stone Warcraft, Improved Hardening, +1 Con
[/table]


Ancestor Body: The dwarf ancestor loses all other racial traits and becomes an outsider with the native subtype. The dwarf ancestor has the following characteristics:

Darkvision 60ft
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Not proficient with any type of armor or shields.
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feats and potions. Spellcasters must still rest for 8 hours before regaining spells for the day.
Natural Armor bonus equal to Constitution modifier
Damage Reduction (Adamantine) equal to Half Hit Die (minimum DR 1/Adamantine).
Living Plate
Light Fortification
Dwarven Heritage


Living Plate: The Dwarf Ancestor's body is actually a form of living stone that provides a +4 armor bonus and resembles full plate. This living plate is not natural armor and does not stack with other effects that give an armor bonus (other than natural armor). The living plate occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a dwarf ancestor cannot wear armor or magic robes. Dwarf ancestors can be enchanted just as armor can, though the ancestor dwarf must be present for the entire time it takes to enchant him.

Living plate also provides an dwarf ancestor with a 5% arcane spell failure chance, though any class ability that allows an ancestor dwarf to ignore the arcane spell failure chance for light armor lets him ignore this penalty as well.

Light Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a dwarf ancestor, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Dwarven Heritage (Ex): The dwarf ancestor counts as a dwarf for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes, as well as using dwarf only magic items.

Ancestral Spirit (Su): Any ally (including the dwarf ancestor) within 30ft of the dwarf ancestor gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 4 character levels.

Ancestral Knowledge (Ex): Levels in dwarven ancestor count as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats that require a minimum number of fighter levels.

Power Attack (Ex): At 2nd level the dwarf ancestor gains Power Attack as a bonus feat.

Dwarven Warcraft (Ex): The dwarven ancestor learns the fighting technique of the heroic dwarven defenders. Any opponent that the dwarven ancestor threatens takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls against the dwarven ancestors allies. The penaly does not apply to attacks made against the dwarven ancestor, and enemies the dwarven ancestor threatens become aware of the consequences of this fighting technique.

Dwarven Hammer (Ex): As a standard action the dwarven ancestor may make a single melee attack. This attack deals an extra +2d6 damage and automatically overcomes damage reduction and hardness.

Hardening (Ex): The armor bonus provided by the dwarf ancestors living plate increases to +6.

Moderate Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a dwarf ancestor, there is a 75% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Stone Hammer (Ex): As a standard action the dwarven ancestor may make a single melee attack. This attack deals an extra +4d6 damage and automatically overcomes damage reduction and hardness.

Blink Out (Su): Once per encounter as a free action the dwarf ancestor can become incorpreal until the beginning of it's next turn. Activating this ability is a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Growth (Ex): At 5th level the dwarf ancestor increases in size to Large (tall).

Stone Warcraft (Ex): The dwarf ancestor reaches out to the earth and stone beneath him, buckling the ground and rippling the dirt. While you are standing on the ground, any opponent that you threaten that takes any sort of movement provokes an attack of opportunity from you. The opponent provokes the attack before leaving the threatend area and opponents may not use the withdraw action when they are in your threatend area.

Improved Hardening (Ex): The armor bonus provided by the dwarf ancestors living plate increases to +8.

Tome of Battle Adaptation

If your campaign is using the Tome of Battle make the following changes to the Dwarf Ancestor.

Ancestral Knowledge (Ex): Levels in dwarven ancestor are counted as full initiator levels when used to determine the initiator level of a multiclass dwarven ancestor/initiating class (crusader, swordsage, warblade). Most initiating dwarven ancestors are Crusaders.
Dwarven Warcraft (Ex): This ability counts as a Devoted Spirit maneuver for the purposes of determing the number of Devoted Spirit maneuvers a dwarven ancestor knows.
Stone Warcraft (Ex): This ability counts as a Devoted Spirit maneuver for the purposes of determing the number of Devoted Spirit maneuvers a dwarven ancestor knows.
Dwarven Hammer (Ex): This ability counts as a Stone Dragon maneuver for the purposes of determining the number of Stone Dragon maneuvers a dwarven ancestor knows.
Stone Hammer (Ex): This ability counts as a Stone Dragon maneuver for the purposes of determing the number of Stone Dragon manevuers a dwarven ancestor knows.

Comments/Changelog

Updated: 12/12/2011

I removed Cleave & Supreme Cleave and reduced the ability bonuses to +3 Str, +3 Con, staggered out over the levels. I increased the fortification to moderate and made Ancestral Spirit scale with character levels.

Added in two abilities that mimic two Devoted Spirit stances and two abilites that mimic two Stone Dragon maneuvers.

In a ToB campaign these abilities help with a multiclassed dwarven ancestor. In a regular game the dwarven ancestor instead uses his levels in dwaren ancestor to qualify for fighter feats.

The DA also can use dwarf only magic items and can take dwarf only feats and prestige classes.

Overall the class now has things it can do in combat - technically. It gets a basic attack that does better damage. It's passive abilities help out in combat, by focusing the enemies attacks on itself and having enemies provoke AoO's. Moderate Fortification is also a big boost for combat staying power.


Original Comments:
I took a page from the Warforged and gave the dwarf ancestor a version of composite plating that can be enchanted. The armor bonus increases as the dwarf ancestor gains levels until at level 6 the living plate grants a +8 armor bonus.

The dwarf ancestor's natural armor gets reduced significantly to balance this, thereby avoiding the trap of having a really high natural armor bonus but not being able to wear armor.

Blink Out is modified to once per encounter and Ancestral Spirit is changed to all allies (not just dwarves).

Supreme Cleave helps out with an otherwise lack-luster combat option.

Overall the dwarf ancestor is a simple tank, with a high armor class and good damage reduction. It doesn't come with advanced combat tactics built in but is instead a good chassis for melee characters.

[Hyudra]

Lammasu

Ok, D6 HD, one good save, alright skills. Looks fine here.
Divine Body:
'Divine Body' is already used by another class, I'm 90% sure. Recommending Lammasu Body instead, which will be clearer on your character sheet, as well.
Of claw attacks & bite, which is primary?
Good, quick answer on the +4 jump from wings.
Holy Shield:
Is it 1 consecutive minute, or can you stop & start it to stretch it out?
Rake:
Be nice to save players from looking it up & just stating it, since it's SRD material.
The "And nor" under divine connection should be just "nor".
Reference to fine manipulation (and speech, for that matter) should be under Divine/Lammasu Body.
Flight:
I'd pre-empt shenanigans and state it "doubles to 60ft". Otherwise you've got characters getting flight from another source & doubling it to a ridiculous number. 120' flight speed, wooo!
I think you meant to spell "manoeuvrability" as "maneuverability."
Lammasu Magic:
That's a lot of invisibility castings. I've never used Lammasu in a campaign, so can't speak as to their tactics, but you might want to slow progression there.
Growth:
It's -> you meant its.
Pounce is fine.
Shining Light is fine.
Greater Lammasu Magic:
I'd clarify that Greater Invisibility replaces Invisibility.
Looks pretty good otherwise.


Golden Protector

Requirements are kinda boring. Alignment restrictions suck, and the skill requirements (along with the Lammasu's small skill points per level) really restrict the character entering Golden Protector.
I'd give a bonus to claw damage and/or natural armor for those who already have them (ie. Lammassu becoming golden protectors).
Breath Weapon:
I'd state Golden Protector levels instead count as a 10ft increase instead.
Reflex save should be based on a stat, rather than golden protector levels, to scale appropriately.
Outsider Skin - looks alright.
Resist the Elements:
I think I'd state that the choice is made once, for clarity.
Dragon's Wings:
Maneuverability.
Same issue as the Lammasu. If you've already got 120' fly speed from another source, you're potentially doubling that. In fact, RAW, it applies to any source of flight.
Superior Protection:
Wording is a little awkward. At the very least, I'd replace "and in addition" with ". Finally, it gains the Improved Initiative Feat."
Smite: Seems ok.
Supreme Protector:
"Any means short of deific power."... does that mean my divine casting of Resist Energy (which technically comes from a god) still prevents the damage?

Overall, not bad. Gold dragons don't bug me any. If I had any complaints, it would be that the classes are a little boring. That is, it doesn't get much that hasn't been done before, and in terms of playstyle, it doesn't really innovate or break new ground. On the plus side, this does mean it should be fairly easy to judge & get added to the list.

[Kobold-Bard]

I'm pre-emptively calling dibs on the Chimera for after the Lammasu gets some feedback.

Ninjas!! Damn to the depths whoever invented ninjas!!

[Kobold-Bard]

...

Overall, not bad. Gold dragons don't bug me any. If I had any complaints, it would be that the classes are a little boring. That is, it doesn't get much that hasn't been done before, and in terms of playstyle, it doesn't really innovate or break new ground. On the plus side, this does mean it should be fairly easy to judge & get added to the list.

Yeah, I know they're boring. But I was stumped for ideas. Might do like I was told to with the Titan and throw in a couple of fluff abilities that don't really affect the game at all, but make the class appear more interesting.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Were-Elemental (Water)

Very interesting, and I like it at first glance.

Lunar Body does not grant the (Aquatic) subtype, so you can't breathe underwater... despite being a were-water elemental. That could be a problem, though I'd understand giving something like Hold Breath at first level and full water breathing later.

In Alternate Form you never specify that the full elemental form cannot speak, but add it as one of the things the hybrid can definitely do, which should be clarified. Otherwise I don't have a problem with it.

In Water Elemental Empathy your first use of the word "Animals" and the use of the word "Beasts" should both be "Creatures".

Wave Sense allows you to gain "Tremer-Sense", which should be "Tremorsense". Otherwise okay, requiring you take full elemental form for very short range but nigh-undefeatable (except for flight, which would either be as easily seen by you as anyone else or be invisible, in which case anyone without see invisibility or a similar effect is screwed, not just you) sense is fine by me.

Whirlpool may be slightly overpowered for level one, but it is situational and short-duration, so it isn't significantly so. You use "Whirlwind" at least twice. The kicking up of debris wouldn't always apply upon hitting the bottom of a body of water, and might apply at other times. Make it whenever the Whirlpool passes through debris, and the effect disperses 1d4 rounds after leaving the area of debris. Also, in the text you say the Save DC is Strength-based but the table says Constitution, that could use a clarification.

I assume the ally saving someone can only occur if they threaten the space holding the unconcious person in Drown. Might want to have an opposed grapple check on there (thematically appropriate, and you can give the WE(W) a penalty if it would be too powerful), though it's not nearly necessary. You don't explicitly mention that the opposed Swim vs. Grapple check is to escape the Drowning, nor do you mention what the Will save does at all (apart from to "regain focus", which doesn't mean anything), nor do you mention that a concious person can attempt to escape each round or that anyone else can help them. A cool ability, but the wording needs to be tightened up a lot. You've got the same as the much-mocked drowning rules for hit points, this can (sort of) heal people. I'd also like to see a version that functions in Hybrid form, perhaps at Huge size and larger.

I'd suggest having Flow as a swift action at first, becoming a free action at 8 HD or something similar. Otherwise a fine ability!

In Magucanthropy, well I'll bold the appropriate sections and unclear sections:

Curse of Magucanthrope: At fourth level the Were-Elemental (Water) can transmit Magucanthropy to other creatures. If a Humanoid or Giant of (the same sizes as the Prerequisites for this class) is hit by the Were-Elemental (Water)’s natural attacks while it is in either Alternate form, the struck creature must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Were-Elemental (Water)’s HD+ Constitution modifier) or contract Magucanthropy. Magucanthropy Functions exactly as Magucanthropy except as noted above. For more information on Magucanthropy, check the Lycanthrope entry in the monster manual.

Some of those should be Lycanthropy, I think. A bit trigger happy with find-replace?:smalltongue:

A fine class, but the wording needs a lot of work, even if it is just small things. This may have been the wrong thread, if it is then tell me.

That's the last review I'll be doing today, but as of now, I start work on the Gargoyle.

[Hyudra]

That's the last review I'll be doing today, but as of now, I start work on the Gargoyle.

You'll be the fourth person I'm aware of to try. Past attempts have struggled with the fact that there's just too much passive stuff and not enough active abilities to make it interesting to play.

[Magicyop]

D8 seems like a lot of HD for a vine. I really would have conceptualized the creature as a low HD parasite rather than a beefy tank.

Fair enough, yes, that would be the aim, I'll lower it to d6, make it more like Rogue.

It has bluff/diplomacy, but can't speak?
Sense motive on a plant seems... unusual. In fact, all of the Cha skills do.

Fair enough.


Photosynthesis: Kind of runs against natural inclinations. Creeping vines, particularly parasitic ones, are antiphototropic. That is, they grow away from natural light. They get their energy from whatever they're preying on (other plants or in case of carnivorous plants, insects/animals).

Okay, that's a good point. I'll try and replace it with a different ability.


Musk Puff: I'm not sure I like the notion of musk puff being used as a 200' targeted attack at level 20. I might suggest it would be a ray attack, no damage, force fort save on hit.

I'll change it to a ray.


Further, 1d8 per 2HD rounds is... a really long time. Long enough that most creatures the party runs against would be almost guaranteed to fall victim to it. Is that necessary? What's the design goal?

I suppose that's a good point. Original monster has 4 CR and 2d8, but I can see how it would essentially be one big save-or-lose at high levels. One thing I would aim for is still making the duration scale in some way, so at high levels, far-away enemies still have time to get to you.


I'd make the "You suffer no penalty for having opponents in your space (or even being grappled?) a separate ability of the class. You're a vine, after all.

That's a good idea.


'might even affect companions' - Needs more defined rules. When will a creature attack friends? Will they use their full complement of abilities?

I'll specify some more.


Ability Score Bonuses: Stat bonuses seem ok balancewise. Designwise, a little one dimensional. It's... not what I'd first think of when conceptualizing the class.

No, me neither, actually. It was suggested to me to change them earlier. I originally had Charisma and Constitution. Maybe change to dex now that Musk Puff will be a ranged touch?


Mind Eater: I'd rework this to operate as an automatic aspect of a successful grapple. Easy to visualize the one guy who refuses to be puffed, wrestling with the vine to keep the tendrils from piercing his brain.

Good thought! That'd work well.



Spore sniping is kinda redundant. After 4th level, you shouldn't ever have range issues with it.

Probably not, but I don't like having facets of abilities you can't improve by your choices. Maybe there's one creeper who wants to stand on a cliffside and puff those far below it to climb the mountain.


I do not like Focused Blossom. Maybe tie it to iterative attacks in BAB?

You think so? I suppose.


Creeper is ok, but I might change it to allow someone to take it multiple times, with a bonus other than the +4 move silently each time.

As stated, you can take all abilities multiple times.


Plant Strength is kinda a lame name for an ability. The ability also references zombies, which doesn't come up until later in the class. A mite confusing and awkward. (You can get a bonus to zombie strength well before you have zombies to control).

You get more abilities as you HD up-- so of course I wanted abilities referencing all the class abilities of the class.

Halo of Tendrils - I don't like it. The class has a good flavor of drawing enemies into one's embrace, and this breaks that flavor.

In... what way does it break that flavor? All it does is allow you to embrace people standing next to you, as well as directly inside you.

Also, the word Permanent really, really, really bugs me. I can imagine a DM having an argument with a player over the fact that the yellow musk creeper the player fought permanently left vines/flowers sticking out of the character's head.

Fair enough, I'll change the wording.


Greenery Shield is ok, but given the issues I take with the anti-flavor of photosynthesis, the regeneration buff may be problematic. The reference to regeneration has same issues as plant strength, in referring to class features that haven't been detailed yet.

Again, you gain flowering after you have gained those abilities, so I want to have options that improve 4 levels of abilities, not 2.


Growth - The powerful build thing is kind of a trademark of giants and giant types, which I personally worked on. I can't say I adore that, or how it's used/outlined here. Also, the colossal yellow musk plant... I can't really see it. In reading the class, this is where it really feels like it's straying wholesale from the concept & implementation of the core monster.

Well, it was suggested to me a while back that for scaling growth progressions, using powerful build in intervals was a good way to go. Further, the core monster is CR 4, and huge size. It IS a big monster. By the time you're 20th level, you're essentially a wall of roiling vines covered in heady scented flowers.


Yellow Musk Zombies - Too powerful, by far. It's too easy to get a mess of zombies, and with the stat bonuses you can pick up, you can make them absolute monsters.
You're talking about a 15th level PC having 60HD of minions under its sway. More than that, we must remember that HD doesn't always correlate to CR, so you could have some low HD, higher CR threats under your control, giving you an absolutely ridiculous boost in raw power. Further, this hurts the group dynamic. Why have teammates when you're a one character army?

It's very similar to what a necromancer caster would get. Necromancers get control of 4 HD of undead per level. Further, you lose many of your abilities when you become a YMZ, just like becoming a skeleton. And as for the group dynamic argument, the same could be said for any character with minions. 4 HD per level is enough to get up to 4 useful minions, or more that are less useful.


Honestly, not the way I would've conceptualized the class. My own approach would've been to have a relatively vulnerable, slow moving plant (with class abilities allowing it to root in a host, and mitigate vulnerabilities) with the ability to control a more narrow selection of minions. So you'd be a fairly narrow and one-trick character as a PC, but you'd have a wealth of options as far as keeping, say, a maximum of 3 zombies at a given time.[/spoiler]


It originally moved slower, but lots of people told me it would be too hard to play in a party. I'm not sure what you mean when you say root in a host-- there's no way I can visualize this thing possessing someone.

[Benly]

It's very similar to what a necromancer caster would get. Necromancers get control of 4 HD of undead per level. Further, you lose many of your abilities when you become a YMZ, just like becoming a skeleton. And as for the group dynamic argument, the same could be said for any character with minions. 4 HD per level is enough to get up to 4 useful minions, or more that are less useful.

Becoming a YMZ is nowhere near "just like becoming a skeleton". As you have it written, you lose class abilities and innate spellcasting, but not Sp or Su abilities which skeletons lose entirely, nor Ex abilities which they lose many of. This is a very important distinction; while it means that human or orc YMZs are functionally skeleton-like meatshields, a beholder YMZ is essentially a full-powered beholder, a mind flayer shockingly loses almost nothing for having its mind eaten, and so on. With the right YMZs, this ability is extremely powerful, more so than nearly any permanent-minion option in the game and far more so than any with as few restrictions as the Yellow Musk Creeper has.

I suggested a possible fix a little earlier; you don't have to pick mine, but you really should know that the YMZ is more powerful than you seem to think. I don't have a problem with large quantities of minions or with reasonably powerful minions, but large quantities of permanent equal-CR or even over-CR minions? That's a potential problem.

[Magicyop]

Becoming a YMZ is nowhere near "just like becoming a skeleton". As you have it written, you lose class abilities and innate spellcasting, but not Sp or Su abilities which skeletons lose entirely, nor Ex abilities which they lose many of. This is a very important distinction; while it means that human or orc YMZs are functionally skeleton-like meatshields, a beholder YMZ is essentially a full-powered beholder, a mind flayer shockingly loses almost nothing for having its mind eaten, and so on. With the right YMZs, this ability is extremely powerful, more so than nearly any permanent-minion option in the game and far more so than any with as few restrictions as the Yellow Musk Creeper has.

I suggested a possible fix a little earlier; you don't have to pick mine, but you really should know that the YMZ is more powerful than you seem to think. I don't have a problem with large quantities of minions or with reasonably powerful minions, but large quantities of permanent equal-CR or even over-CR minions? That's a potential problem.

I'm sorry, it seems I must have missed your fix. If you could repost it, that'd be great... thanks!

That's a fair point, I'll reduce the abilities that the YMZ retains, and limit the minions to having a maximum HD each.

[Kajhera]

Response to Hyudra, things changed and not:


Table formatting, right off that bat: Consider shortening Base Attack Bonus to BAB, and having the saves shortened to Fort, Ref & Will. Will make the table tidier (that, or copy-paste another table from another monster entry and replace the data.) As is, it looks a little distorted.

Done.


D12 HD, less than full BAB progression, one good save, 2 skill points a level. I'm looking at this and telling myself the bug had better get something good to compensate, because it's not gonna thrive, as is.

Yeah? I'd like to think it does.


Like I said for the gibbering mouther, I really urge people to be specific with naming the 'body' abilities. Being too vague will create overlap, with multiple monsters potentially having 'insectoid body'. Creates ugliness if you were to, say, gestalt monster classes. Rename to Ankheg body?

Done.


Burrow speed at 1st level is problematic for much the same reason flight is. You can't burrow and snipe at people from underground, but other shenanigans are possible. I faced this issue with my own purple worm, and gave it slow progression.

Eh... you can get burrow speed by 3rd level, so I don't think the extremes of slowness you took with the purple worm are quite warranted. Also, this is the 'good thing' at this point that helps the ankheg survive.

I changed it to 5'/HD because 10'/3 HD was starting to confuse me as to what I wanted them to get when, and it fit with the other guy's suggestion without continuing to confuse me. :smallconfused:


Burrowing through adamantine - I predict some player trying to use this to justify their attacks going through an enemy's armor. I don't think the exotic material burrowing is necessary.

... Yeaah, that player would be shot down for the same reason a white dragon's burrow speed can't pierce ice armor. That said, I agree they aren't necessary, I threw them out for the people who wanted it to burrow through force and weird stuff like that. Changed to simple progression.


Please, please, please state what level an ability is gained, in the ability description. It's a pain to constantly backtrack to the table to double check. For anyone critiquing (me) and anyone playing the class.

Okay.


Creating a 5'x5'x15' tunnel as fast as you're describing is a bit much, I think. Also, this kind of breaks campaigns. Consider how this impacts a group's progression through a dungeon, past major threats, etc.

*checks her campaigns* About the same, actually. This is exactly what the cleric in my campaign is doing at 5th level, and if campaigns are broken by then we have a problem.


Is more or less fine, though I still take issue with low level burrowing, but I see a lot of Ankhegs going into Rogue for the sneak attack damage. I might rework the flatfootedness.

A touch of synergy doesn't hurt.


You get it at 2nd level, and it oftentimes does nothing. By which I mean, you can drag a creature 5' per 3 HD... but if you have only 2HD, it's a useless ability. Move to 3rd level or give it a minimum 5' drag? Consider a cap on the maximum, too.

Put a minimum on it. It's never going to get over its burrow speed, so we don't have that paradox at least.


Thinking of ways to abuse it... an Ankheg needs to cover a lot of ground in combat, so he moves a full 30', grapples a teammate, who voluntarily fails the grapple check, then ankheg moves X' underground as bonus movement.

This does not get him as far as simply moving 30' and then burrowing, and is therefore not an abuse, though it might be a good strategy if you need to move the teammate.


What happens if you drag an opponent underground and leave them there?

No clue. I'm going to make them go back to those tunnels of theirs instead. If they grapple and then burrow normally, well, those situations can happen in the first place, and therefore there must exist rules to deal with them ... yes? :smallconfused:


It says you 'may' take them with you. What happens if you don't?

You have to, now.


A bit weak when compared to dragon's breath weapons. Single target vs. AoE, lower damage. Needs something to spice it up. A bonus effect or something.

It does - the 50% health, double damage thing. It's supposed to be a relatively desperate move on the part of the ankheg, so I tried to keep that flavor.


Again, I don't think we should be using staggered powerful build. To me, it's a Giant & Gigantic creature thing. Just give it steady growth.

Sure, but, I think the point of staggered growth was to make it smoother, not make it ... ah ... giant. Still, I changed that.

[Zemro]

The Weapon of Thorns ability need some heavy rewording. The second paragraph is very confusing and makes little to no sense until you read the third paragraph. What I took from it was "I can make little thorns grow on a weapon I hold." which has no effect other than an aesthetic one.

Also, the ability itself is tremendously powerful. It's the ultimate 1 level dip for any melee character that needs a weapon. You only ever need to buy mundane weapons, then spend 5 minutes to give it bonuses better than those you could reasonably afford using WBL.

Perhaps allow it to only boost the item in this way for a certain number of rounds per encounter? HD rounds, or HD/2 rounds would be appropriate I think.

Changed the ability so that it requires all four Thorn class levels, and only provides the bonus for a total of twice their Wisdom modifier rounds per encounter.


Protection of the Courts is fine.

Swoot


Subduing strike is neat, I like it. Give a bonus d6 when using a thorn weapon maybe, to keep it themed with the weapons?

Actually it requires a thorn weapon to use, but either way I'm fairly happy with where subduing strikes is at either way. Plus, it could get a little bit wordy if I'm listing all the other circumstances in which they can increase their subduing strikes damage.


2*HD for Slumbering Shot is a bit much. Either make it at-will and tone it down, or make it limited and power it up. 2*HD is more than you're ever gonna need really. Perhaps allow it to be delivered through a melee attack instead, rather than forcing them into archery?

I'm not quite what to make of this point... 2*HD is a bit much, but at-will is not? I'm fairly firm on it being a ranged attack though, but let's see what I can do to polish the ability up a bit.

As for uses, I think 2*HD seems like more then it is. Even with that many shots, to put an enemy to sleep you need to hit them, damage them, and then they need to fail a save (Or, my original intent was to require damage, going to fix that wording). So that's six shots per day when they first get the ability, not a whole lot in my book.

I have changed it so that a melee Thorn can still take advantage of the ability without having to juggle multiple weapons. Also, I am reminded that sleep has a duration, so I've provided an effective caster level to base that off of. And I added some extra utility in the ability against constructs and undead, since most of their class features are otherwise useless.


Melee weapon of barbs seems kind of odd - You're very unlikely to get enough hits on something to totally strip it's natural armour, as those with small NA tend to have low HP and those with enough HP to have it stripped will have more than 5. Perhaps reduce it by 1/4 for each hit (rounded down), totally ignoring it on the 5th hit, dealing the extra 50% damage and then resetting it to full again? Or perhaps reducing it by 1 per HD? Just some kind of scaling would be nice.

Mmm, went and added some scaling, though I'm still willing to play around with the concept some more.


Have the ranged thorns cap at HD or something in terms of the penalties, otherwise I can forsee a lot of death by dex damage.

Well, it is a dex penalty, so it can't reduce the score below one, and 0 dex is paralysis instead of death (though either effectively ends the encounter depending on the target). A cap really doesn't make too much sense either, it needs to be high enough to be effective, but I think a lot of targets will probably be dead by then. If too low it's only best against low dex creatures and not really that effective against higher dex ones.

On another point, the Wendigo's original creator has been banned, which I find disappointing as now I'll never have my comments on the class addressed.

[Betropper]

Hey, throwing my 2cp in again.

Gibbering Mouther:
1) Not sure what is going on with the BAB. It looks like 1/2(poor) progression, but it starts with a +1 at first level. 1/2 and 3/4 BAB have a +0 at first level, with the rounding down and stuff. The save progression is all wonky, too. There is a table somewhere in the thread that should help, or just look at any of the classes in the PHB and use good/bad saves from that.
2) For Gibbering, do you think you could come up with something between Confusion and Insanity? There are a lot of levels where the ability is the same, while everyone else is getting new stuff. Not sure how much of a problem that is or how hard it would be to find something else, but it seems a little... Off.
3) I like how you made it harder to get out of being Engulfed, but I'm still not sure what the DR/- is about. Also, is it just 2 failed saves, or 2 consecutive rounds with the Mouther attached? Just asking, because with as many bite attacks as it has, you could pretty easily get two bites on a target and Engulf them right off the bat. Hilarious and awesome, but it might need a little clarification. Maybe. Either that, or I just suck at making sense out of things like this.
Other then that, I like this class. For a seething monstrosity of craziness, it has a bunch of fun stuff that could make it an interesting character. While it might be better as a villain(confusion will affect teammates as well), I like the propensity it has for cutting off retreat with Ground Manipulation, a ranged attack option(at the perfect range for sneak attack!), and generally holding the opponents down when it does get into melee.

Umber Hulk: Can I say how much I like this concept right off the bat? Giant bug that beats people with whatever weapon is at hand? Heck yeah!
1) Huh. D8 hit die and 3/4 BAB seem a little on the low side for a primary melee-ist, but it makes sense as an aberration with a bunch of cool combat abilities.
2) There seems to be an extra line with "Umber Hulk" all by itself under Class Features. And 'by' should probably be 'buy' when it comes to armor.
3) With Object=Pain, does the person-flail take any damage from being used to smack enemies around? It seems like they should...
4) With Wreck the Earth, the Ref save= 1/2 STR seems a little on the low side. I mean, I know that your should be sending your strength into the stratosphere with this class, but even if you get your strength up to 30, the DC is only 15. However, maybe that is the way you want it, with only the people that really flub their saves to fall over. Even so, something more conventional might work better. Also, perhaps give a bonus on the save if they have 5 ranks in balance, or something like that. You might also want to redo the save on the 12HD flying version to something more conventional, too.
5) Does WAAAAARRRGGG! end if the bonus hit points you get from the CON increase puts you over 25% of your original HP? I'd have to work out the math, but I think it could also put you over 25% of your new HP, so what happens then? Still, I would not want to be anywhere near a wounded, raging Umber Hulk, just by looking at this. Which means that you are doing a great job with this class.
6) The Tools of the Trade weapons don't feel much like improvised weapons to me. Maybe something about them falling apart after a confirmed crit, or a nat. 1 on an attack roll. However, this isn't really necessary, so much as a flavor thing.
This class is AWESOME. I would play this in a heartbeat, just because you go around wrecking things, then using the wreckage to wreck other things. How much cooler can you get?

More to critique to come, hopefully. If you guys don't mind my "lowest common denominator of understanding" perspective.

Finally got around to doing this, but the Mouther is updated :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I buffed Engulf a bit more since a single save can make you escape.

[Betropper]

Dwarf Ancestor
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98682.jpg


[Original Post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9578763&postcount=539)]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills: The dwarf ancestor's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: History (Int), Knowledge: The Planes (Int), Listen (Wis), & Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int mod) x4.
Skill Points at each additional level: 4+ Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special Ability
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Ancestor Body, Ancestral Spirit +1, Ancestral Knowledge, +1 Str
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Power Attack, Dwarven Warcraft, +1 Con
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Dwarven Hammer, Hardening, +1 Str
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Moderate Fortification, Ancestral Spirit +2, +1 Con
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Stone Hammer, Blink Out, Growth, +1 Str,
6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Stone Warcraft, Improved Hardening, +1 Con
[/table]


Ancestor Body: The dwarf ancestor loses all other racial traits and becomes an outsider with the native subtype. The dwarf ancestor has the following characteristics:

Darkvision 60ft
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Not proficient with any type of armor or shields.
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feats and potions. Spellcasters must still rest for 8 hours before regaining spells for the day.
Natural Armor bonus equal to Constitution modifier
Damage Reduction (Adamantine) equal to Half Hit Die (minimum DR 1/Adamantine).
Living Plate
Light Fortification
Dwarven Heritage


Living Plate: The Dwarf Ancestor's body is actually a form of living stone that provides a +4 armor bonus and resembles full plate. This living plate is not natural armor and does not stack with other effects that give an armor bonus (other than natural armor). The living plate occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a dwarf ancestor cannot wear armor or magic robes. Dwarf ancestors can be enchanted just as armor can, though the ancestor dwarf must be present for the entire time it takes to enchant him.

Living plate also provides an dwarf ancestor with a 5% arcane spell failure chance, though any class ability that allows an ancestor dwarf to ignore the arcane spell failure chance for light armor lets him ignore this penalty as well.

Light Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a dwarf ancestor, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Dwarven Heritage (Ex): The dwarf ancestor counts as a dwarf for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes, as well as using dwarf only magic items.

Ancestral Spirit (Su): Any ally (including the dwarf ancestor) within 30ft of the dwarf ancestor gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 4 character levels.

Ancestral Knowledge (Ex): Levels in dwarven ancestor count as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats that require a minimum number of fighter levels.

Power Attack (Ex): At 2nd level the dwarf ancestor gains Power Attack as a bonus feat.

Dwarven Warcraft (Ex): The dwarven ancestor learns the fighting technique of the heroic dwarven defenders. Any opponent that the dwarven ancestor threatens takes a -4 penalty on attack rolls against the dwarven ancestors allies. The penaly does not apply to attacks made against the dwarven ancestor, and enemies the dwarven ancestor threatens become aware of the consequences of this fighting technique.
How long does this last?

Dwarven Hammer (Ex): As a standard action the dwarven ancestor may make a single melee attack. This attack deals an extra +2d6 damage and automatically overcomes damage reduction and hardness.
Whoa, extra +2d6 at third level that can easily smash enemy weapons? make the damage scale and add a limit to uses.

Hardening (Ex): The armor bonus provided by the dwarf ancestors living plate increases to +6.

Moderate Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a dwarf ancestor, there is a 75% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Stone Hammer (Ex): As a standard action the dwarven ancestor may make a single melee attack. This attack deals an extra +4d6 damage and automatically overcomes damage reduction and hardness.
Same as above, VERY strong.

Blink Out (Su): Once per encounter as a free action the dwarf ancestor can become incorpreal until the beginning of it's next turn. Activating this ability is a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Growth (Ex): At 5th level the dwarf ancestor increases in size to Large (tall).

Stone Warcraft (Ex): The dwarf ancestor reaches out to the earth and stone beneath him, buckling the ground and rippling the dirt. While you are standing on the ground, any opponent that you threaten that takes any sort of movement provokes an attack of opportunity from you. The opponent provokes the attack before leaving the threatend area and opponents may not use the withdraw action when they are in your threatend area.
May not use withdraw at all? that means you can just run next to an unarmed guy and he can only use unarmed attacks unless he moves, which makes an AoO. Also, if you catch him in a corner he can't do anything much.

Improved Hardening (Ex): The armor bonus provided by the dwarf ancestors living plate increases to +8.

Tome of Battle Adaptation

If your campaign is using the Tome of Battle make the following changes to the Dwarf Ancestor.

Ancestral Knowledge (Ex): Levels in dwarven ancestor are counted as full initiator levels when used to determine the initiator level of a multiclass dwarven ancestor/initiating class (crusader, swordsage, warblade). Most initiating dwarven ancestors are Crusaders.
Dwarven Warcraft (Ex): This ability counts as a Devoted Spirit maneuver for the purposes of determing the number of Devoted Spirit maneuvers a dwarven ancestor knows.
Stone Warcraft (Ex): This ability counts as a Devoted Spirit maneuver for the purposes of determing the number of Devoted Spirit maneuvers a dwarven ancestor knows.
Dwarven Hammer (Ex): This ability counts as a Stone Dragon maneuver for the purposes of determining the number of Stone Dragon maneuvers a dwarven ancestor knows.
Stone Hammer (Ex): This ability counts as a Stone Dragon maneuver for the purposes of determing the number of Stone Dragon manevuers a dwarven ancestor knows.

Comments/Changelog

Updated: 12/12/2011

I removed Cleave & Supreme Cleave and reduced the ability bonuses to +3 Str, +3 Con, staggered out over the levels. I increased the fortification to moderate and made Ancestral Spirit scale with character levels.

Added in two abilities that mimic two Devoted Spirit stances and two abilites that mimic two Stone Dragon maneuvers.

In a ToB campaign these abilities help with a multiclassed dwarven ancestor. In a regular game the dwarven ancestor instead uses his levels in dwaren ancestor to qualify for fighter feats.

The DA also can use dwarf only magic items and can take dwarf only feats and prestige classes.

Overall the class now has things it can do in combat - technically. It gets a basic attack that does better damage. It's passive abilities help out in combat, by focusing the enemies attacks on itself and having enemies provoke AoO's. Moderate Fortification is also a big boost for combat staying power.


Original Comments:
I took a page from the Warforged and gave the dwarf ancestor a version of composite plating that can be enchanted. The armor bonus increases as the dwarf ancestor gains levels until at level 6 the living plate grants a +8 armor bonus.

The dwarf ancestor's natural armor gets reduced significantly to balance this, thereby avoiding the trap of having a really high natural armor bonus but not being able to wear armor.

Blink Out is modified to once per encounter and Ancestral Spirit is changed to all allies (not just dwarves).

Supreme Cleave helps out with an otherwise lack-luster combat option.

Overall the dwarf ancestor is a simple tank, with a high armor class and good damage reduction. It doesn't come with advanced combat tactics built in but is instead a good chassis for melee characters.

Overall, It seems a fairly balanced class.

[Benly]

I'm sorry, it seems I must have missed your fix. If you could repost it, that'd be great... thanks!

That's a fair point, I'll reduce the abilities that the YMZ retains, and limit the minions to having a maximum HD each.

The idea I suggested is that the YMC has lesser and greater YMZs. Lesser YMZs lose all Su, Sp, and non-attack Ex abilities, so they're basically meatshields like skeletons and zombies. The Creeper can promote YMZs to "greater Yellow Musk Zombies" (perhaps these are the ones that are starting to flower or something) which retain most Ex, Su, and Sp abilities but lose those that duplicate spells equal to or higher than the highest level that a wizard of level matching the YMC's HD could cast. (Thus, for example, a 8-HD YMC's greater YMZs would only get spell-likes and Su abilities up to third-level spells. In the case of the Mind Flayer I've been rambling about, it would keep Levitate, Detect Thoughts and Suggestion but lose Plane Shift and Charm Monster.) The maximum number of greater YMZs that can be controlled at a time would be dependent on HD; the ability to create them could itself be HD-locked.

It's kind of a weird and complicated suggestion, but it's actually roughly intended to match the major canonical D&D minion-controlling archetype, the necromancer. I specifically modeled this structure to an extent on the dread necromancer, which is one of my favorite classes. The dread necro generally speaking has two "pools" of controlled undead: Animate Dead, which creates generic expendable meat shields, and Rebuking, which is used to control everything else. Because Rebuking is your only reliable option for the most interesting undead and it's a smaller pool, a DN will tend to end up with a large supply of mindless bruisers and a few oddities with interesting special abilities. So, yeah, that's the rationale.


While I'm looking over the YMC, it strikes me that it might make sense to give a target continuing saves to break the effect of the Musk Puff after each round that his brain is being eaten or that he's attacked by the creeper and/or the creeper's allies. In terms of a monster encounter it makes sense to have it the way it is, because it's assumed that the victim's allies will be trying to get him free of the brain-eating vines, but you can't assume that a PC's enemies will always be structured that way - against a lone enemy or poorly-organized enemies, the musk puff is pretty much a guaranteed successful brain-eating against each enemy it hits, and at higher levels you can spam it out multiple times per round with a pretty decent range so that even better-organized enemies will be quickly overwhelmed. It becomes a bit less potentially excessive if there's a chance that the YMC might have to use extra puffs to keep previously-captured enemies subdued, and introduces the tactical choice between eating the brains and risking a breakout or simply puffing an enemy and keeping him subdued in your space while his allies are dealt with.

[Hyudra]

As stated, you can take all abilities multiple times.

Yeah, but stacking gains of +4 move silently is a bit much.


You get more abilities as you HD up-- so of course I wanted abilities referencing all the class abilities of the class.

Again, you gain flowering after you have gained those abilities, so I want to have options that improve 4 levels of abilities, not 2.

It's confusing on the first readthrough. Add text with something like "See [ability name] below for details on regeneration/zombies"?


In... what way does it break that flavor? All it does is allow you to embrace people standing next to you, as well as directly inside you.

I think it's just that instead of drawing people into you, you're reaching out to ensnare them... and the latter has been done to death (just recently too, look at Grell.) I think it's a little cooler & better to set oneself apart by having your schtick be drawing enemies into your space (or moving into theirs).


Well, it was suggested to me a while back that for scaling growth progressions, using powerful build in intervals was a good way to go. Further, the core monster is CR 4, and huge size. It IS a big monster. By the time you're 20th level, you're essentially a wall of roiling vines covered in heady scented flowers.


Sure, but, I think the point of staggered growth was to make it smoother, not make it ... ah ... giant. Still, I changed that.

Ok, here's the issue, since I mentioned this in reference to both Ankheg & Yellow flower vine thingy. Giants are... they're really strong guys. They're powerful to the extent that, if you shrunk them to be 6' tall, they'd still be able to fight solo through a squadron of soldiers & toss people around like rag dolls. Powerful build simulates that, and that's fine as far as Goliaths and Giants and Titans and other brute creatures. They're strong enough that they take the physically awkward and impossible feats of strength (like swinging around a bastard sword longer than you are tall, or lifting a squirming opponent that weighs 3/4 what they do over their head) and they can do it without embarrassing themselves.

So when it comes to creatures like Ankheg and the Yellow Vine Flower Musk Creeper Thing, you're taking powerful build and you're taking something that simulates disproportionate feats of strength and using it instead to equate a middle ground in size. This can work as far as a creature or creature dynamic goes, in terms of a brutish kind of growth, but I really feel like it's being misapplied in 90% of instances, and this bugs me because I was the one who originally implemented it (I didn't originally come up with the idea, but I did put it into action), and I feel responsible.


It's very similar to what a necromancer caster would get. Necromancers get control of 4 HD of undead per level. Further, you lose many of your abilities when you become a YMZ, just like becoming a skeleton. And as for the group dynamic argument, the same could be said for any character with minions. 4 HD per level is enough to get up to 4 useful minions, or more that are less useful.

Benly put it best.

I can't help but think of Heroes of Newerth's Ophelia when I think of ways I'd implement the Yellow Puffy Flower (Remembered what it was called, stubbornly refusing to change my ways). Ophelia was a fairly squishy, limited and one dimensional character, but her Command ability basically lets her control up to three minions from around the battlefield. By using the abilities and options these minions afford her, she becomes a fairly versatile combatant. I think the Musk Vine could be created very much in this same vein.

As is, though, you totally break the action economy by potentially controlling hordes of minions, who, by way of sheer options, allow you to totally do away with your teammates and take a stab at soloing the rest of the campaign. Which is terrible.

And for the record, we're not balancing against tier 1 classes (which a necromancy specialized wizard/cleric would & could be).

[Magicyop]

The idea I suggested is that the YMC has lesser and greater YMZs. Lesser YMZs lose all Su, Sp, and non-attack Ex abilities, so they're basically meatshields like skeletons and zombies. The Creeper can promote YMZs to "greater Yellow Musk Zombies" (perhaps these are the ones that are starting to flower or something) which retain most Ex, Su, and Sp abilities but lose those that duplicate spells equal to or higher than the highest level that a wizard of level matching the YMC's HD could cast. (Thus, for example, a 8-HD YMC's greater YMZs would only get spell-likes and Su abilities up to third-level spells. In the case of the Mind Flayer I've been rambling about, it would keep Levitate, Detect Thoughts and Suggestion but lose Plane Shift and Charm Monster.) The maximum number of greater YMZs that can be controlled at a time would be dependent on HD; the ability to create them could itself be HD-locked.

It's kind of a weird and complicated suggestion, but it's actually roughly intended to match the major canonical D&D minion-controlling archetype, the necromancer. I specifically modeled this structure to an extent on the dread necromancer, which is one of my favorite classes. The dread necro generally speaking has two "pools" of controlled undead: Animate Dead, which creates generic expendable meat shields, and Rebuking, which is used to control everything else. Because Rebuking is your only reliable option for the most interesting undead and it's a smaller pool, a DN will tend to end up with a large supply of mindless bruisers and a few oddities with interesting special abilities. So, yeah, that's the rationale.


While I'm looking over the YMC, it strikes me that it might make sense to give a target continuing saves to break the effect of the Musk Puff after each round that his brain is being eaten or that he's attacked by the creeper and/or the creeper's allies. In terms of a monster encounter it makes sense to have it the way it is, because it's assumed that the victim's allies will be trying to get him free of the brain-eating vines, but you can't assume that a PC's enemies will always be structured that way - against a lone enemy or poorly-organized enemies, the musk puff is pretty much a guaranteed successful brain-eating against each enemy it hits, and at higher levels you can spam it out multiple times per round with a pretty decent range so that even better-organized enemies will be quickly overwhelmed. It becomes a bit less potentially excessive if there's a chance that the YMC might have to use extra puffs to keep previously-captured enemies subdued, and introduces the tactical choice between eating the brains and risking a breakout or simply puffing an enemy and keeping him subdued in your space while his allies are dealt with.

Okay, some thoughts: I like the Greater Musk Zombies idea. Maybe it can have a maximum of 2 HD per HD of GYMZ promoted, and these must be the ones which are older than 2 months and able to roam freely.

Further, I'll make it so they get an additional save every dice of rounds, but the Yellow Musk Creeper may puff them again to deny them their next save.

[DragonOfUndeath]

And for the record, we're not balancing against tier 1 classes (which a necromancy specialized wizard/cleric would & could be).

The author stated he was using the Dread Necromancer as a guide not the Necro Cleric or Necro specialized Wizard

[Benly]

And for the record, we're not balancing against tier 1 classes (which a necromancy specialized wizard/cleric would & could be).

For what it's worth, the dread necromancer is tier 3 and I think it is an excellent model for a minion-themed PC. It's not the horde that makes a necromancer wizard T1. A dread necro does get powerful minions with special abilities (if nothing else, Create Undead for bone/corpse creatures), but they're relatively limited by his rebuking compared to the vast hordes of skeleton and zombie chaff.

(This does become broken if dread necros try to do the ridiculous trap room/Planar Binding/Corpse Efreet business - which is why I tried to specifically counter that kind of nonsense in my proposal for greater YMZs.)

Edit:


Okay, some thoughts: I like the Greater Musk Zombies idea. Maybe it can have a maximum of 2 HD per HD of GYMZ promoted, and these must be the ones which are older than 2 months and able to roam freely.

Further, I'll make it so they get an additional save every dice of rounds, but the Yellow Musk Creeper may puff them again to deny them their next save.

An extra save every d8 rounds is a very long time being helpless for an at-will ability that becomes twice per round rather early on, and is very likely to be enough for the YMC to finish eating the brains before the target gets another save. By comparison, a mind flayer needs to pass a minimum of two grapple checks to eat a brain, almost certainly at least three, and quite possibly more, while the musk puff -> mind eater combination is essentially a guaranteed kill once the initial save is failed.

[Hyudra]

The author stated he was using the Dread Necromancer as a guide not the Necro Cleric or Necro specialized Wizard

I suspected that was the case, but it was vague & I had enough tabs open I wasn't able to go back and check the comments for the YMC to see. Figured it was better to state the fact and be wrong than to let it slide and have MagicYop continue on a tragically screwed up baseline assumption.

Edit:


...

See above.

[Magicyop]

Yeah, but stacking gains of +4 move silently is a bit much.

Fair enough, I will reduce stacking bonuses.




It's confusing on the first readthrough. Add text with something like "See [ability name] below for details on regeneration/zombies"?

Okay.




I think it's just that instead of drawing people into you, you're reaching out to ensnare them... and the latter has been done to death (just recently too, look at Grell.) I think it's a little cooler & better to set oneself apart by having your schtick be drawing enemies into your space (or moving into theirs).

Fair enough, should be partially fixed by the update you suggested earlier.



Ok, here's the issue, since I mentioned this in reference to both Ankheg & Yellow flower vine thingy. Giants are... they're really strong guys. They're powerful to the extent that, if you shrunk them to be 6' tall, they'd still be able to fight solo through a squadron of soldiers & toss people around like rag dolls. Powerful build simulates that, and that's fine as far as Goliaths and Giants and Titans and other brute creatures. They're strong enough that they take the physically awkward and impossible feats of strength (like swinging around a bastard sword longer than you are tall, or lifting a squirming opponent that weighs 3/4 what they do over their head) and they can do it without embarrassing themselves.

So when it comes to creatures like Ankheg and the Yellow Vine Flower Musk Creeper Thing, you're taking powerful build and you're taking something that simulates disproportionate feats of strength and using it instead to equate a middle ground in size. This can work as far as a creature or creature dynamic goes, in terms of a brutish kind of growth, but I really feel like it's being misapplied in 90% of instances, and this bugs me because I was the one who originally implemented it (I didn't originally come up with the idea, but I did put it into action), and I feel responsible.

Okay, that's a fair point. I still do like it as a "middle ground" of growth, and I may use it in the future (For things like Animated Object, I actually feel like it works.) But I suppose for the Yellow Musk Creeper, maybe it doesn't work.




Benly put it best.

I can't help but think of Heroes of Newerth's Ophelia when I think of ways I'd implement the Yellow Puffy Flower (Remembered what it was called, stubbornly refusing to change my ways). Ophelia was a fairly squishy, limited and one dimensional character, but her Command ability basically lets her control up to three minions from around the battlefield. By using the abilities and options these minions afford her, she becomes a fairly versatile combatant. I think the Musk Vine could be created very much in this same vein.

As is, though, you totally break the action economy by potentially controlling hordes of minions, who, by way of sheer options, allow you to totally do away with your teammates and take a stab at soloing the rest of the campaign. Which is terrible.

Okay, so, here's what I'll do. I'll first of all lower the limit to 3 HD per HD. No minion can have more HD than yours - 2. Most minions lose all supernatural, spell-like, and extraordinary abilities, up to 1 HD per HD of minions can be upgraded to keep a very limited number of these abilities. And lastly, I'll lower the stacking flowering upgrade that allows for super minions.


And for the record, we're not balancing against tier 1 classes (which a necromancy specialized wizard/cleric would & could be).

I wasn't thinking Wizard/cleric-- I was thinking Dread Necromancer, which is Tier 3.
EDIT: Ninja'd on that subject.

[Rumel]

Demi-Lich
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44180_C5_Demilich.jpg
Prerequisites:
To become a Demi-Lich, the character must meet the following requirements...

Race/Class:One level in any Lich class/Phylactery
HD:20+ only

Hit Dice: d12's (and change all previous HD to d12's)

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Demi Body, Soul Steal, +1 Cha, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Meta-Magic Feat, Darker Touch, +1 Wis, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Improved Darker Touch, +1 Int, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Meta-Magic Feat, Deathless Terror, +1 Cha, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

5th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+4|Soul Absorbtion, +1 Wis, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Greater Fell Defense, +1 Int, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level[/table]
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Demi-Lich gains no class skills.

Proficiencies: The Demi-Lich gains proficiency with no weapons, armor or shields

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Demi-Lich...

Demi Body: The Demi-Lich retains all racial traits...

The Demi-Lich's size varies with it's previous size...

{table=Head]Previous Size|New Size|Weight

Tiny-Fine|Fine|1/2 pd.

Medium-Small|Diminutive|1 pd.

Huge-Large|Tiny|3 pd.

Colossal-Gargantuan|Small|5 pd.

[/table]

The Demi-Lich is effectively a huminoid skull with two gems for eyes. It gains no natural attacks. It's speed bocomes 60ft flight with perfect maneuverability. Obviously, it cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of a body. In addition, all spells cast by the Demi-Lich are considered to be Stilled.

Ability Score Increase:
At every level you gain an alternating mental ability score. +1 Cha at levels 1 and 4, +1 Wis at levels 2 and 5 and +1 Int at levels 3 and 6, for a total of +2 to Cha, Wis and Int at level 6.

Meta-Magic Feats:
At every second level, the Demi-Lich gain a Meta-Magic or Item Creation feat, but must meet all prerequisites.

Soul Steal:
The most feared ability of the Demi-Lich, once at first level and every 4HD you have above 20 you may store a creature's soul inside one of your gems ... Soul Steal allows you to trap a soul with a max HD equal to yours. Each gem is 150,000 Gp, 5,000 Xp or any mix of the two, like 75,000 Gp and 2,500 XP. They may be replaced by destroying them (simply wishing them gone) but in the process, releasing the trapped spirit. It allows a Fort save and is usable 1/day. (DC=10+HD+Cha mod)

Darker Touch:
The Demi-Lich may make a touch attack which deals 2d8+Cha mod points of negative energy damage.

Improved Darker Touch:
Any creature hit by the darker touch of a third level lich must make a fortitude saving throw(DC10+1/2HD+Cha mod) or become paralyzed. This paralysis last until removed, either by a remove paralysis spell or magic that can remove a curse. The paralyzed creature appears dead but a DC20 spot check or a DC15 heal check will reveal the creature is still alive. The creature takes 1 point of Con damage every hour (though, the Demi-Lich may stop this ability as a Free Action). Any caster trying to break this curse, must also make a CL check (DC=10+HD) or the cure attempt fails.

Deathless Terror:
A second level lich gains an aura of fear that effects any enemies in a 5ft per HD radius. Any enemy with fewer than twice the DemiLich's HD must make a will save (DC10+1/2HD+Cha modifier) or becomes panicked for 1 round per HD of the lich. If the creature has fewer than half the liches HD(rounded down), then the creature becomes Terrified instead and is still Panicked for 1 round on a successful saving throw. A creature that makes a successful saving throw is immune to this ability for 24 hours

Soul Absorbtion:
By placing a soul gem in one of your two eye sockets... It feeds you power from the original soul absorbed inside the gem. You may have two in at one time. At level 5 you gain 1/5 of one of the creatures mental ability scores. This ability is draining on the soul, so it can only give you power for two hours/HD of the creature. These must be used up in intervals of hours and once used up, the gem shatters, it falls out of the Demi-Lich's eye and turns to dust before it hits the ground. So a level 24 Demi-Lich trapped a creature with a Cha score of 24... 1/5 rounded down of 24 equals 4, so the Demi-Lich gets a bonus to Cha equal to 4.

[Magicyop]

Demi-Lich


Initial thoughts, before looking at any of the class features: Why is it so long? The actual template is what, +5 CR? Is there a good reason for breaking the CR rule in such a drastic way? You'd have to be a minimum of, like, level 40 to finish this PrC.

[Rumel]

Initial thoughts, before looking at any of the class features: Why is it so long? The actual template is what, +5 CR? Is there a good reason for breaking the CR rule in such a drastic way? You'd have to be a minimum of, like, level 40 to finish this PrC.

D****T!!! I looked at the CR, not the LA or +CR... So much wasted time...

[The Antigamer]

Initial thoughts, before looking at any of the class features: Why is it so long? The actual template is what, +5 CR? Is there a good reason for breaking the CR rule in such a drastic way? You'd have to be a minimum of, like, level 40 to finish this PrC.

Agreeing with Magic, holy crap is that too many levels. Not even going to look it over until it's reduced.

Also, ability bonuses every level were frowned on, or so I thought?

[Magicyop]

D****T!!! I looked at the CR, not the LA or +CR... So much wasted time...

Hey, don't stress it. A quick look over the class features tells me that it seems like you could pretty easily adapt it. It doesn't have huge options, the main thing it gets as it levels up is better versions of the abilities it has, along with some new abilities. Why not condense it down into the 6 level epic PrC, epic requirements, lich requirement, no BaB or Saves (Because Epic PrC) and make it so the abilities which now get improved as you level up, are instead quickly improved by HD.

Start there, then let's see what you've got. :smallsmile:

[Rumel]

Agreeing with Magic, holy crap is that too many levels. Not even going to look it over until it's reduced.

Also, ability bonuses every level were frowned on, or so I thought?

Ok, I know how wrong it is now... Grrr...

Edit: Thanks, I'll finish it up really soon... Epic Level?... Really?... Hmm... I didn't think about that... I don't think it's that powerful, is it?

[Magicyop]

Ok, I know how wrong it is now... Grrr...

Edit: Thanks, I'll finish it up really soon... Epic Level?... Really?... Hmm... I didn't think about that... I don't think it's that powerful, is it?

It's an epic level template, man. The whole point of the template is that it's the epic level version of the lich. It's what epic level liches transform into. Its source is the Epic Level Handbook. If it's not epic, it'd be... strange.

[Rumel]

It's an epic level template, man. The whole point of the template is that it's the epic level version of the lich. It's what epic level liches transform into. Its source is the Epic Level Handbook. If it's not epic, it'd be... strange.

Ok, fixed the Demi-Lich... Easy critique for anyone whose interested.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Creepy Grin:
The Demi-Lich gains a Fear Aura with a radius of 5ft/HD to a max of 100ft at 20HD. Any creature inside who succeeds on it's save is shaken, and any creature who fails it's save is terrified (both for 1 hour). Those who make the save cannot become terrified by you for 24 hours, but are still shaken.


Demi-Lich has a MINIMUM HD of 20 so it automatically has a fear aura of 100 and everyone who sees you being shaken for an hour? at least? that seems overpowered

[Rumel]

Demi-Lich has a MINIMUM HD of 20 so it automatically has a fear aura of 100 and everyone who sees you being shaken for an hour? at least? that seems overpowered

Sorry (had it set to a level 29 class :smallbiggrin:)

[Rumel]

Demi-Lich has a MINIMUM HD of 20 so it automatically has a fear aura of 100 and everyone who sees you being shaken for an hour? at least? that seems overpowered

Fixed it, anything else?

[DragonOfUndeath]

Fixed it, anything else?

how about every monster you see (and ally if it is read a certain way) is at least shaken in every fight you have unless you fight it after the hour is up but before 24 have passed (unlikely for most monsters)

[Rumel]

how about every monster you see (and ally if it is read a certain way) is at least shaken in every fight you have unless you fight it after the hour is up but before 24 have passed (unlikely for most monsters)

What? I changed that, now it's if they save they can't be affected for 24 hours... I'll re-word it better...

[The Antigamer]

Quick review because I need a break from studying.



Demi-Lich
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44180_C5_Demilich.jpg
Prerequisites:
To become a Demi-Lich, the character must meet the following requirements...

Ability Scores:20+ in one or more mental abilities (Int, Wis or Cha).
Why? I don't think I've ever seen an ability score prerequisite for a PrC. Do you lose the PrC if your ability drops below 20 due to drain?
Feats:Craft Wonderous Item.
Already a requirement for Liches
Race/Class:One level in any Lich class/Phylactery
Level:20+ only

Hit Dice: d12's (and change all previous HD to d12's)

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Demi Body, Soul Steal, +1 Cha

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Meta-Magic Feat, Fell Bite, +1 Wis

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Stunning Touch, +1 Int

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Meta-Magic Feat, Creepy Grin, +1 Cha

5th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+4|Soul Absorbtion, +1 Wis

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Meta-Magic Feat, Forceful Personality, +1 Int
[/table]
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Demi-Lich’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Cha), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Each listed individually), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Psicraft (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Truespeak (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha).

Proficiencies: The Demi-Lich gains proficiency with it's own natural bite attack, but no armor or shields

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Demi-Lich...

Demi Body: Starting at 1st level the Demi-Lich loses all racial powers and mods, but gains Undead traits…

No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

This stuff is all unneeded, since as a requirement you already have to be a lich. Lose it.
The Demi-Lich's size varies with it's previous size...

{table=Head]Previous Size|New Size|Bite Damage|Weight

Tiny-Fine|Fine|1d2|1/2 pd.

Medium-Small|Diminutive|1d4|1 pd.

Huge-Large|Tiny|1d6|3 pd.

Colossal-Gargantuan|Small|1d8|5 pd.

[/table]

The Demi-Lich is effectively a huminoid skull with two gems for eyes. It gains a natural bite attack as shown on the table above. It's speed bocomes 60ft flight with perfect maneuverability. Obviously, it cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of a body (which is a lot). In addition, all spells cast by the Demi-Lich are considered to be Stilled. Since the Demi-Lich cannot wear objects, he gains a strange ability, if his Phylactery is set in the chest of a body of items (gloves where his hands should be, a helm where his head should be and a ring on the glove and so on), he gains benefits as if he were wearing the object. When armor is placed on the imaginary body it's armor bonus becomes an invisible force protecting the Demi-Lich as a deflection bonus to AC and any weapon placed by the imaginary body's side, the Demi-Lich's bite gain the swords enchantment and bonuses (except, the bite attack deals Bludgeoning damage, so no Vorpal or Wounding). Additionally, the DC for all of the Demi-Lich's abilities is 10+1/2HD+Players Choice of Mental ability score Mod (Cha, Wis or Int). A Demi-Lich gains the spell-casting abilities of a Sorcerer with a level equal to his Demi-Lich class levels, but he gains no familiar. If the Demi-Lich already had a spell-casting class he instead gains an increased caster level in that class, if the Demi-Lich multi-classes into a Sorcerer their caster levels stack. So a Demi-Lich 3/Sorcerer 3 could cast level 3 spells.
I think the spellcasting needs re-wording.

Ability Score Increase:
At every level you gain an alternating mental ability score, for +2 to Cha, Wis and Int at level 6.

Meta-Magic Feats:
At every second level, the Demi-Lich gain a Meta-Magic or Item Creation feat, but may gain Epic Meta-Magic feats after 20 HD, but must meet all presiquites.
It's always over 20 HD...

Soul Steal:
The most feared ability of the Demi-Lich, every 4HD you have you may store another person's soul inside one of your gems (You may have a max of 8)... Soul Steal allows you to trap a soul with a max HD or CR becomes equal to your HD. Each gem is 150,000 Gp, 5,000 Xp or any mix of the two, like 75,000 Gp and 2,500 XP, and you may have a max of 1+1/every 4th level above 2. As that is very expensive for a low level, every time you would gain another gem, one appears in front of you unused. They may be replaced by destroying them (simply wishing them gone) but in the process, releasing the trapped spirit.
Ok....what? The ability sounds cool, but the mechanics are severely lacking.

Fell Bite:
The Demi-Lich's bite attack deals 1d6 points of negative energy damage every 5HD levels above 2.
See, I don't even understand why we're focusing on bite? No self-respecting demi-lich goes around bighting people. Plus, can't a Demi-Lich be any bone, not just a skull?

Stunning Touch:
By biting a foe you may choose to stun him... If you succeed on a bite attack, you may choose to make it a stunning blow, if the foe fails a Fort save, he is stunned for 1d4+1 hours and cannot move... He is helpless and may be absorbed into a soul gem without gaining any saving throw. This is usable 1/day/HD. Every 2HD above 4 increase the time by one die size and +1, so at 8HD it becomes 1d8+3.
Again with the biting....

Creepy Grin:
The Demi-Lich gains a Fear Aura with a radius of 5ft/HD to a max of 200ft at 40HD. Any creature inside who fails it's save is shaken for 1 hour. Those who make the save cannot become shaken by you for 24 hours.
Fix this up.

Soul Absorbtion:
By placing a soul gem in one of your two eye sockets... It feeds you power from the original soul absorbed inside the gem. You may have two in at one time. At level 5 you gain 1/5 of the creatures mental ability scores. So a level 24 Demi-Lich trapped a creature with a Cha score of 24... 1/5 rounded down of 24 equals 4, so the Demi-Lich gets a bonus to Cha equal to 4.
Again, mechanics

Forceful Personality:
You may choose either Int, Wis or Cha and get that abilities mod as a "Misc" bonus to AC.
This should be a first-level ability...


All in all, this class...needs a lot of work. Demi-liches don't bite people, they crush them with spellcasting might. As is, why would anyone become one?
You need some better abilities, and you should cut out redundant stuff, like gaining undead traits when it's already a requirement that it must be undead.

[Tokuhara]

Note: This isn't my work, but a friend of mine's


leShay
http://www.utdallas.edu/~crw054000/album/images/BloodElf_jpg.jpg
As elves are to humans, so are leShay to the elves (but more
so): a race immortal, enigmatic, and exceptionally powerful.
LeShay look like tall, thin, albino elves, except that
they lack the oversized ears of true elves (leShay ears
look more like half-elf ears) and, while they have the
glossy dead-white hair of true albinos, their eyes are pits
of darkness. Some affect a particular color or style,
while others change their outfits from moment to
moment. All are deeply concerned with etiquette, decorum,
and receiving the respect they feel due; failure to
meet their standards of politeness, or simply crossing
one of their whims, can often be fatal.
LeShay never die from age or disease; they perish only if
killed. LeShay are the mere remnant of a once-great race
whose origins are lost to history. They claim to predate the
current multiverse and refer darkly to some catastrophe
that not only wiped out most of their people but changed
time so that their era never existed, even in the remotest
past. Attempting to undo the catastrophe would apparently
result in another disaster even more terrible, so the decimated
survivors—less than gods but more than mortals—
for the most part merely attempt to amuse them selves and
stave off ennui as they work out their individual destinies.
LeShay have great facility at languages (as per the
Polyglot epic feat) and can speak any language within
seconds of hearing it spoken for the first time, right
down to the most courtly or impressive accent thereof.



HD Base Attack F/R/W/ Special:
1 :2d6 +1 0/2/2 Leshay Weapon,Gaze,superior two-weapon fighting,Elf Traits,feat,quick draw,+1dex,+1cha
2 :4d6 +2 0/3/3 Speak with plants,dodge,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
3 :5d6 +3 1/3/3 feat,combat casting,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
4 :7d6 +4 1/4/4 Alter Self,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
5 :9d6 +5 1/4/4 expertise,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
6 :11d6 +6/+1 2/5/5 Water Breathing,feat, blind fight,+1dex,+1con,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
7 :13d6 +7/+2 2/5/5 endurance,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+5 insight to armor
8 :14d6 +8/+3 2/6/6 improved initiative,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
9 :16d6 +9/+4 3/6/6 knock,feat,mobility,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
10:18d6 +10/+5 3/7/7 weapon finesse(leshay),+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
11:20d6 +11/+6/+1 3/7/7 detect thoughts,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
12:21d6 +12/+7/+2 4/8/8 feat,combat reflexes,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
13:23d6 +13/+8/+3 4/8/8 displacement,weapon focus(leshay),+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
14:25d6 +14/+9/+4 4/9/9 iron will,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+2cha,+5 insight to armor, Fast healing 5
15:27d6 +15/+10/+5 5/9/9 feat,toughness,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
16:29d6 +16/+11/+6/+1 5/10/10 freedom,power attack,+1dex,+1int,+1cha
17:30d6 +17/+12/+7/+2 5/10/10 cleave,+1dex,+1con,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
18:32d6 +18/+13/+8/+3 6/11/11 spell turning,feat,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
19:34d6 +19/+14/+9/+4 6/11/11 sunder,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
20:36d6 +20/+15/+10/+5 6/12/12 greater dispelling, alertness,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
21:38d6 +20/+15/+10/+5 6/12/12 feat,spring attack,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+5 insight to armor
22:39d6 +21/+16/+11/+6 7/13/13 Improved Critical (leShay weapon),+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
23:41d6 +21/+16/+11/+6 7/13/13 improved invisibility, whirlwind attack,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
24:43d6 +22/+17/+12/+7 8/14/14 feat,great cleave,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
25:45d6 +22/+17/+12/+7 8/14/14 heal,feat,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
26:46d6 +23/+18/+13/+8 9/15/15 ***blinding speed,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
27:48d6 +23/+18/+13/+8 9/15/15 teleport without error,feat,polyglot,+1dex,+1con,+1in,+1cha
28:50d6 +24/+19/+14/+9 10/16/16 Spell Stowaway,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+2cha,+1 Natural armor,+5 insight to armor, Fast healing 5




LeShay Weapons (Su): Each leShay carries two personal
melee weapons that she manifests from her own
life essence. The weapon can change form as she shifts
from class to class, typically appearing as a bastard
sword (one in each hand). When not in combat, the
weapons simply do not exist, but leShay can “draw”
their weapons from nowhere as a free action. LeShay
weapons are considered light weapons for a leShay,
regardless of their size.

Superior Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): A leShay
fights with a leShay weapon in each hand. Because these
weapons are extensions of its own body, the leShay does
not take an attack or damage penalty for attacking with
two weapons.

Gaze (Su): All creatures within 30 feet who meet the
gaze of a leShay become affected as if by charm monster.
A Will save (DC =hd) negates the effect. Each opponent
within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving
throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in
the initiative order. A leShay can also actively gaze as an
attack action by choosing a target within range, who
must then attempt a saving throw. LeShay are immune
to their own gaze.

Elf Traits: Immune to magic sleep spells and effects;
+2 racial bonus on Will saves against enchantment
spells or effects; low-light vision (can see twice as far as
a human in low-light conditions); entitled to a Search
check when within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door
as though actively looking for it; Martial Weapon Proficiency
(composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow,
longsword, and rapier) as bonus feats; +2 racial
bonus on Listen, Spot, and Search checks (already figured
into the statistics given above).


This is what my friend gave me. I just need the starting stuff. They are Medium Fey

[DragonOfUndeath]

That needs major reformatting

[Magicyop]

This is what my friend gave me. I just need the starting stuff. They are Medium Fey

Well, this isn't really a monster class of the type that we make here. This seems like a "Savage Species" monster class. If you'd like to work on that class here, I really suggest you read the homebrewing rules and guidelines and use the provided class template. All of that information is right in the first post.

Mostly because, as-is, it's so far away from what we do in this thread that it's going to be really hard to critique it. No offense to you or your friend of course.

[Tokuhara]

Well, this isn't really a monster class of the type that we make here. This seems like a "Savage Species" monster class. If you'd like to work on that class here, I really suggest you read the homebrewing rules and guidelines and use the provided class template. All of that information is right in the first post.

Mostly because, as-is, it's so far away from what we do in this thread that it's going to be really hard to critique it. No offense to you or your friend of course.

If you all can help, please do

[Rumel]

Reworded everything on the Demi-Lich, and changed the horrid attempt at gaining sorceror levels to "+1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level" and changed all references of "bite" to "touch attack". Anything else I missed?

[Mystic Muse]

Tokuhara My suggestions right now are remove the ability boosts, reduce the hit die to a D8, and make the hit dice scale properly. If you can put the stats into a table, that would really help readability. Reducing the class to less than 28 levels is also a good idea.



Also, remove bonus feats for now.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Creepy Grin still shakes EVERYTHING that sees it automatically. That is a pretty powerful passive effect

sorry to keep on this bit but you haven't changed it

[Rumel]

Creepy Grin still shakes EVERYTHING that sees it automatically. That is a pretty powerful passive effect

sorry to keep on this bit but you haven't changed it

It allows a save... What do you mean... If they make a save they are good, if they font they get another one in one hour... What's so confusing about that?

[DragonOfUndeath]

It allows a save... What do you mean... If they make a save they are good, if they font they get another one in one hour... What's so confusing about that?

:smallredface: This is what I get for having tabs open. I was looking at an out-of-date thing tab that had shaken as a successful effect and terrified or somesuch as a fail. My apologies

[Rumel]

:smallredface: This is what I get for having tabs open. I was looking at an out-of-date thing tab that had shaken as a successful effect and terrified or somesuch as a fail. My apologies

No problem... We all misread things on a site where 75% of anything you is read, 20% is write and 5% of everything is thinking of a clever thing to write...

[Gorgondantess]

By epic levels being shaken is such a minor effect that your DM probably won't even bother rolling the save... not that any of your enemies would be affected by it, as all of them would be immune to mind-affecting.
Honestly, a no-save panicking wouldn't be out of line. 'Course, it would still be a mediocre ability.

[The Winter King]

Jovoc

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_26.jpg
HD: d10
{table=head]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 1|+ 2 |+ 0 | +0| Jovoc Body, Double Claw, +1 Con
2|+ 2|+ 3 |+ 0| +0|Demon, Abyssal Skin, Cursed Wound, +1 Dex
3|+ 3|+ 3|+ 1| +1|Punishment Strike, +1 Con,
4|+ 4|+ 4|+ 1| +1| Rapid Recovery, Bloodclaws +1 Dex
5|+ 5|+ 4|+ 1| +1|Retributive Aura, +1 Con[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: Simple weapons and natural weapons

Skills: 4 + Int modifier. Balance, Bluff, Craft, Climb, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot.

Body of Vengeance: You lose all previous racial bonuses and gain outsider traits (Darkvision 60ft) and the Chaotic and Evil subtypes. You are a small sized outsider with a base land speed of 30ft and two claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage plus Str mod each and all your attacks count as being both evil and chaotic aligned.
You gain a natural armor bonus equal to your constitution modifier.

Double Claw: You may attack with both claws as a standard attack.

Ability Score Increases: Your Constitution increases by 1 at 1st, 3rd and 5th levels. (+3 overall)
Your Dexterity increases by 1 at 2nd and 4th levels. (+2 overall)

Demon: You gain telepathy equal to 30ft + 10ft per HD. You gain resistance to electricity equal to your HD and an equal bonus on saves against poison. You gain resistance to acid, cold and fire equal to half your HD.

Abyssal Skin: You gain DR/good or cold iron equal to half your HD. At 10 HD, this becomes DR/good and cold iron. You gain SR equal to 11 + your HD.

Cursed Wound: As a free action, you may charge your next claw attack with raw pain, to leave foes doubled over in agony. Should you hit, the foe must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Jovoc HD + Jovoc Cha) or be nauseated for one round. On a failed attack, the use is spent regardless. Cursed Wound may be used once a day per HD. At 8HD, it causes foes to be dazed. At 16HD, it causes them to be stunned.

Punishment Strike: As a swift action, you can gain a bonus on melee damage rolls with your claws equal to your HD for one round against a creature that has damaged you. These bonuses only apply to your claw attacks gained from this class. This may be used 1/encounter per 6HD (min. 1/encounter)

Rapid Recovery: You gain Fast Healing equal to 1/2 your HD. You also receive double benefits of bed rest.

Bloodclaws: Your claws are stained red from blood, whether it's your blood or the blood of your enemies, you do not recall. Or care. You may spend 5hp to deal 1 point of vile damage per four HD with each successful claw attack.

At 7HD your bloodclaws grant you the ability to attack at a distance by throwing razor sharp projectiles made of your own blood. By sacrificing 10hp you may attack with your claws as if they were thrown weapons with a range increment of ten feet for one round. These attacks may still qualify for Punishment Strikes as if they were melee attacks by paying an additional 5hp.

At 14HD You may spend 50hp to nauseate a single creature you are aware of that has vile damage within 60ft for 2d4 rounds. Fort reduces to sickened.


Retributive Aura (Su): Once per round per 3HD, when you take damage from an attack, all creatures within 15ft radius take 2 damage. Jovoc's are immune to this ability and may select a number of creatures up to their 1/2 HD to be excluded from this effect.

At 10HD all creatures within 30ft radius take 5 damage

At 15HD all creatures within 45ft radius take 7 damage

At 20HD all creatures within 60ft radius take 10 damage

Comments The jovoc is a small tough guy that can recover from damage really quickly and causes those who damage it to suffer. It cant be ignored because it can move and attack itself causing it to be able to use its melee attacks as area of effect attacks

ChangelogMajor Changes. Punishment strike only modifies damage, Retributive Aura changed again, added cursed wound
2/28 Punishment strike only applies to claw attacks now and is useable 1/encounter/6HD
Cursed wounds changed to hydra's idea for it
growth removed due to not being advantageous

[Rumel]

By epic levels being shaken is such a minor effect that your DM probably won't even bother rolling the save... not that any of your enemies would be affected by it, as all of them would be immune to mind-affecting.
Honestly, a no-save panicking wouldn't be out of line. 'Course, it would still be a mediocre ability.

EXACTLY!!! I just felt it would be rude to say "I know you believe this, but I say your wrong and won't change it :smallmad:", but now I see it wasn't unreasonable at all :smallbiggrin:

[The Antigamer]

Demi-Lich

Prerequisites:
To become a Demi-Lich, the character must meet the following requirements...

Race/Class:One level in any Lich class/Phylactery
Level:20+ only
Change to HD rather than level.

Hit Dice: d12's (and change all previous HD to d12's)

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Demi Body, Soul Steal, Forceful Personality, +1 Cha, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Meta-Magic Feat, Fell Bite, +1 Wis, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Stunning Touch, +1 Int, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Meta-Magic Feat, Creepy Grin, +1 Cha, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level

5th|
+2|
+2|
+2|
+4|Soul Absorbtion, +1 Wis, +1 Arcane or Divine Caster Level
[/table]
Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Demi-Lich’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Cha), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Each listed individually), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Psicraft (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Truespeak (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha).

Proficiencies: The Demi-Lich gains proficiency with it's own natural bite attack, but no armor or shields
Not every reference to bite attack...

Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the Demi-Lich...

Demi Body: Starting at 1st level the Demi-Lich loses all racial powers and mods...
Ummmmm, it shouldn't...it keeps the base.

The Demi-Lich's size varies with it's previous size...

{table=Head]Previous Size|New Size|Weight

Tiny-Fine|Fine|1/2 pd.

Medium-Small|Diminutive|1 pd.

Huge-Large|Tiny|3 pd.

Colossal-Gargantuan|Small|5 pd.

[/table]

The Demi-Lich is effectively a huminoid skull with two gems for eyes. It gains no natural attacks. It's speed bocomes 60ft flight with perfect maneuverability. Obviously, it cannot use weapons or do anything requiring the use of a body. In addition, all spells cast by the Demi-Lich are considered to be Stilled. Since the Demi-Lich cannot wear objects, he gains a strange ability, if his Phylactery is set in the chest of a body of items (gloves where his hands should be, a helm where his head should be and a ring on the glove and so on), he gains benefits as if he were wearing the object. When armor is placed on the imaginary body it's armor bonus becomes an invisible force protecting the Demi-Lich as a deflection bonus to AC.

Ability Score Increase:
At every level you gain an alternating mental ability score, for +2 to Cha, Wis and Int at level 6.

Meta-Magic Feats:
At every second level, the Demi-Lich gain a Meta-Magic or Item Creation feat, but must meet all presiquites.

Forceful Personality:
You may choose either Int, Wis or Cha and get that abilities mod as a "Misc" bonus to AC.

Soul Steal:
The most feared ability of the Demi-Lich, every 4HD you have you may store another person's soul inside one of your gems (You may have a max of 8)... Soul Steal allows you to trap a soul with a max HD or CR becomes equal to your HD. Each gem is 150,000 Gp, 5,000 Xp or any mix of the two, like 75,000 Gp and 2,500 XP, and you may have a max of 1+1/every 4th level above 2. As that is very expensive for a low level, every time you would gain another gem, one appears in front of you unused. They may be replaced by destroying them (simply wishing them gone) but in the process, releasing the trapped spirit.
Still needs rewording. "(You may have a max of 8)", followed by "you may have a max of 1+1/every 4th level above 2".
Also, "As that is very expensive for a low level, every time you would gain another gem, one appears in front of you unused." = what?

Fell Touch:
The Demi-Lich may make a touch attack which deals 1d6 points of negative energy damage every 5HD.
This is less than useless...4d6 negative energy as a melee touch attack...

Stunning Touch:
By succeeding on a touch attack, you may choose to stun a foe... If you choose to make it a stunning, the foe must make a Fort save (DC=10+1/2HD+Chosen mental ability mod) and if it fails, it is paralyzed for 1d4+1 hours and cannot move... He is helpless and may be absorbed into a soul gem, with a -10 penalty to it's saving throw. This is usable 1/day/HD. Every 2HD above 4 increase the time by one die size and +1, so at 8HD it becomes 1d8+3.
This ability is overpowered, and the advancement is worded badly. Stunned and paralyzed for 2d20+7 hours? 22 times a day? Why would you use another ability?

Creepy Grin:
The Demi-Lich gains a Fear Aura with a radius of 50ft. Any hostile creature inside your aura who fails it's saving throw (DC=10+1/2HD+Chosen mental ability mod) is shaken for 1 hour. Those who make the saving throw cannot be affected by the fear aura for 24 hours.
Eh, maybe. I've never been a big fan of fear effects, but I guess this is...ok...

Soul Absorbtion:
By placing a soul gem in one of your two eye sockets... It feeds you power from the original soul absorbed inside the gem. You may have two in at one time. At level 5 you gain 1/5 of one of the creatures mental ability scores. This ability is draining on the soul, so it can only give you power for two hours/HD of the creature. These must be used up in intervals of hours and once used up, the gem shatters. So a level 24 Demi-Lich trapped a creature with a Cha score of 24... 1/5 rounded down of 24 equals 4, so the Demi-Lich gets a bonus to Cha equal to 4.
Eh, maybe. What type of bonus? What happens to the gem?


Still needs lots of work...

[Rumel]

Still needs lots of work...

Honestly, I hate fear effects too, their so useless and waste time... The bonuses from absorbtion is unholy (the opposite of sacred, I'll look it up), and the stunning touch will be taken down alot... The negative energy thing made little sense to me also, but it's a big part of the Demi-Lich, so I couldn't just ignore it... Could I? Also, I will fix the multiple grammar errors soon...

[Rumel]

Fixed up the grammar, and changed shaken to terrified, with some various other fixes...

[Mystic Muse]

Okay, here's a post of the Leshay, made into a table for readability.


{table]level| Base Attack| F/R/W/| Special:
1| +1| 0/2/2| Leshay Weapon,Gaze,superior two-weapon fighting,Elf Traits,feat,quick draw,+1dex,+1cha
2 | +2|0/3/3|Speak with plants,dodge,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
3 | +3|1/3/3| feat,combat casting,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
4 | +4|1/4/4|Alter Self,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
5 | +5| 1/4/4|expertise,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
6 | +6/+1|2/5/5|Water Breathing,feat, blind fight,+1dex,+1con,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
7 | +7/+2|2/5/5|endurance,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+5 insight to armor
8 | +8/+3| 2/6/6| improved initiative,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
9 | +9/+4|3/6/6| knock,feat,mobility,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
10| +10/+5|3/7/7| weapon finesse(leshay),+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
11| +11/+6/+1|3/7/7| detect thoughts,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
12| +12/+7/+2|4/8/8| feat,combat reflexes,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
13| +13/+8/+3|4/8/8| displacement,weapon focus(leshay),+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
14| +14/+9/+4| 4/9/9| iron will,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+2cha,+5 insight to armor, Fast healing 5
15| +15/+10/+5|5/9/9| feat,toughness,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
16| +16/+11/+6/+1|5/10/10| freedom,power attack,+1dex,+1int,+1cha
17| +17/+12/+7/+2|5/10/10| cleave,+1dex,+1con,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
18| +18/+13/+8/+3|6/11/11| spell turning,feat,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
19| +19/+14/+9/+4|6/11/11| sunder,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
20| +20/+15/+10/+5|6/12/12| greater dispelling, alertness,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
21| +20/+15/+10/+5|6/12/12| feat,spring attack,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+5 insight to armor
22| +21/+16/+11/+6|7/13/13| Improved Critical (leShay weapon),+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha,+1 Natural armor
23| +21/+16/+11/+6|7/13/13| improved invisibility, whirlwind attack,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
24| +22/+17/+12/+7|8/14/14|feat,great cleave,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
25| +22/+17/+12/+7|8/14/14|heal,feat,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+1cha
26| +23/+18/+13/+8|9/15/15|***blinding speed,+1dex,+1con,+1cha
27| +23/+18/+13/+8|9/15/15|teleport without error,feat,polyglot,+1dex,+1con,+1in,+1cha
28| +24/+19/+14/+9|10/16/16| Spell Stowaway,+1str,+1dex,+1con,+1int,+2cha,+1 Natural armor,+5 insight to armor, Fast healing 5[/table]


LeShay Weapons (Su): Each leShay carries two personal
melee weapons that she manifests from her own
life essence. The weapon can change form as she shifts
from class to class, typically appearing as a bastard
sword (one in each hand). When not in combat, the
weapons simply do not exist, but leShay can “draw”
their weapons from nowhere as a free action. LeShay
weapons are considered light weapons for a leShay,
regardless of their size.

Superior Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): A leShay
fights with a leShay weapon in each hand. Because these
weapons are extensions of its own body, the leShay does
not take an attack or damage penalty for attacking with
two weapons

Gaze (Su): All creatures within 30 feet who meet the
gaze of a leShay become affected as if by charm monster.
A Will save (DC =hd) negates the effect. Each opponent
within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving
throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in
the initiative order. A leShay can also actively gaze as an
attack action by choosing a target within range, who
must then attempt a saving throw. LeShay are immune
to their own gaze..

Okay, critiques.

Too many ability scores bonuses. Look at the dragons for example. I'm not entirely sure which abilities to boost though. Dexterity and charisma seem like good choices since leshay weapons can always be used with finesse.

I suggest a d8 for hit dice instead of the alternating d6s. Makes it less confusing.

maybe have the Leshay weapons ability function like normal weapons until 5th level, and then they can use finesse and two weapon fighting on any weapon they could normally wield? Then increase the size of Leshay weapons they can wield as they gain levels?

Not sure what to say about gaze. I'm thinking 6th or 8th level for it, since that's the point most PC classes get charm monster, and a dc equal 10+half hit dice+Charisma modifier like most classes.

Also, it doesn't mention the frequency you're allowed to use the SLAs. I'd assume at will since that's what the base monster has but I don't think that's going to work. Frequency of SLAs usually depends on the class, but until further notice, I suggest making the frequency 1/day per spell level hit dice. So, freedom can be used once a day per 9 HD for example.

we can help you with this, but you're going to have to help us too. what do you want the class to be able to do? Also, we should reduce the class to level 20. It will make it easier to get done, if only slightly.

[Kajhera]

The LeShay is an epic-level monster, of CR 28. That at least was done right.

[NineThePuma]

I hereby request an Awakened Cat monster class =|

[AugustNights]

Quick question on the Demi-lich: why is it a 5 level class when the monster was a CR 6 increase?

Edit: It also seems a lot of people have been leaving out comment/changelogs in the recent classes. Please spoiler a comment/changelog to help your fellow critiquers.

And Critiquers, give over the guidelines to critiquing a quick glance. I've noticed a lot more mandates than suggestions, more commands than questions, and ultimately what appears to be a grading than a critique. For some those concepts are synonymous, for this project we want discussion, not outright 'Change This.'

If you see something that isn't normal, or seems out of place, why not ask about it before demanding it be changed? Maybe there's a good reason for it, if not the question alone appoints attention to the problem.

That said, I'm backed up a bit for homework and finals and legal documents. I'll be back amoung us in full after this week.

[Kobold-Bard]

I hereby request an Awakened Cat monster class =|

There already was one done.

[Kajhera]

Suggestions for the LeShay:

*Drop the bonus feats. The LeShay doesn't get any racial bonus feats, so making them part of the monster class might ... pigeonhole it, a bit.
*Restrict its ability bonuses to at most 2 scores. I recommend Dexterity and Charisma.
*Reword its weapon-wielding ability, because, yeah, as worded in the entry it could change them to Colossal+ greatswords, which makes little real sense. 'Shifting from class to class' is not made clear either, though it's an intriguing little tidbit I wouldn't mind looking up in the ELH to figure out what the heck that means... okay ... looking it up, I still haven't a clue. Check out the Nimblewright for manufactured/natural weapons combinations.
*Have the weapons scale with class levels. This creature is trying way too hard to be a soulknife; oblige it a little, no? Suggestion: +1 enhancement at 3rd (when you start running from incorporeals) and every 4 levels after; +1 ability enhancement at 4th and every 4 levels after. To both your weapons.
*If you must have an insight bonus (and it is one of the cool things about the monster) tie it to its Charisma bonus.
*Have the gaze scale in effect with class levels, possibly be more limited in use, and have a DC of 10+1/2HD+Charisma modifier.
*Give it spell-likes with a limited number of uses per day. I personally might expand/customize these to fill out the class a bit.
*Explain -all- its class abilities. Please.
*Probably shouldn't have both natural armor and insight, but if it has natural armor, tie it to its Con.
*Give it cool language powers even before Polyglot-ish levels, because it's a trademark of them.
*SR 10+HD somewhere.
*State their lack of dying from old age somewhere, and possibly aging effects or lack thereof.
*1/2HD DR/Cold Iron somewhere, add Epic somewhere in epic levels.
*Bonus on saves against poison and disease, maybe immunity at some point.
*Better, scaling fast healing (is this 1/2 HD as well?)
*Fill in its class abilities with things that make what it does cooler, rather than with feats. This is normally a CR 28 50HD monster, which makes it... about the same ratio as an adept. It's going to need some work. :smallwink:

[NineThePuma]

There already was one done.

Was there? I haven't seen it. Awakened Dino, but no cat.

[Rumel]

Was there? I haven't seen it. Awakened Dino, but no cat.

It's a Chesire Cat... Disappear and cut people!

[NineThePuma]

That's a Fey. *points at the "Fey body" label*

It's also not a Cat with the Awakened Animal spell cast on it.

[Kobold-Bard]

It's a Chesire Cat... Disappear and cut people!

No, someone did an awakened cat class in Gorgon's thread.

Edit: Found it:



Awakened Cat
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/wizard.jpg
HD: d4
Skills: 6+int modifier
Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot and Survival.

{table]Level|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Cute and Fluffy Body, Adorable, Scent, Weapon Finesse, Cat's Eye, -2 Str +3 Dex[/table]

Proficiencies: Cats are proficient only with their natural weapons.

Features
Cute and Fluffy Body: The Awakened Cat loses all other racial traits and bonuses and gains magical beast traits (Low Light Vision and Darkvision 60 feet.) It is a tiny sized and has a base speed of 30 feat. It has two natural claw attacks dealing 1d2+Str damage each, and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d3+1/2Str damage
It does not have hands capable of fine manipulation, and cannot wield a weapon in either set of its paws.

Adorable (Ex): Aw, look at the kitty! Look at it! Don't you just want to give it a big hug? An awakened cat is just so darn cute, and so it gains a bonus to Bluff of +2 and can cast Charm Person as a SLA 1/day per HD.
DC=10+HD+Cha modifier.

Scent (Ex): The Awakened Cat gains the scent ability at level 1.

Weapon Finesse (Ex): The Awakened cat gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at level 1.

Cat's Eye (Ex): Cats are naturally skilled at seeing in the dark. The Awakened Cat's Darkvision improves by 5 feet every level. At 5HD it gains 5ft blindsight, which improves by an additional 5 feet every two levels afterward. At 15HD it gains permanent True Seeing.

Comments:
...Sometimes I feel like the biggest nerd in the world.

Anyways, this had been requested on another forum, so I figured I may as well go ahead.

What do you think? Too much? Too little? Too ridiculous? Not ridiculous enough? I am open for suggestion.

Changelog:
Changed Adorable from a potentially enormous Diplomacy bonus to a small bonus and the ability to cast Charm as an SLA.

Wierdly, despite the picture the lack of fine manipulation means it can't cast spells. What's that all about?

[Mystic Muse]

And Critiquers, give over the guidelines to critiquing a quick glance. I've noticed a lot more mandates than suggestions.

Sorry. I should know not to post critiques late at night when I'm half asleep. Changed my post so it suggests what to do instead of just commanding him to change the Leshay.

[AugustNights]

Sorry. I should know not to post critiques late at night when I'm half asleep. Changed my post so it suggests what to do instead of just commanding him to change the Leshay.

No need to apologize, just trying to bring attention to the trend, suggestion promote discussion, and discussion tends to promote more ideas, and learning. And learning leads to more monster classes. And I love monster classes.

[Gorgondantess]

Awakened Cat
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/wizard.jpg
HD: d4
Skills: 6+int modifier
Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival and Tumble.

{table]Level|BaB|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Cute and Fluffy Body, Adorable, Moxie, Cat's Eye, Weapon Finesse, -2 Str +2 Dex, +1 Cha[/table]

Proficiencies: Cats are proficient only with their natural weapons.

Features
Cute and Fluffy Body: The Awakened Cat loses all other racial traits and bonuses and gains magical beast traits (Low Light Vision and Darkvision 60 feet.) It is a tiny sized and has a base speed of 30 feet. It has two natural claw attacks dealing 1d2+Str damage each, and a secondary bite attack that deals 1d3+1/2Str damage
It does not have hands capable of fine manipulation, and cannot wield a weapon in either set of its paws; however, it is capable of casting spells with somatic components by flicking its tail.

Adorable (Ex): Aw, look at the kitty! Look at it! Don't you just want to give it a big hug? An awakened cat is just so darn cute, it can cast Charm Person as a SLA 1/day per HD with a DC=10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier.
At 10 HD, the cat's allure even extends to supernatural entities, and gains Charm Monster instead of Charm Person.

Moxie: The Awakened Cat gains a racial bonus to its Listen & Balance checks equal to 1/2 its HD and a racial bonus on Jump & Move Silently checks equal to its HD. The Awakened Cat uses dexterity instead of strength for the purposes of the Climb & Jump skills.
If an Awakened Cat is smaller than its opponent, it does not receive penalties to its intimidate skill and its opponent does not receive bonuses based on size differences.
Finally, they get a +5 bonus on tumble checks to avoid fall damage.

Cat's Eye (Ex): Cats are naturally skilled at seeing in the dark. The Awakened Cat's Darkvision improves by 5 feet every level. At 5HD it gains blindsense out to 10 feet, which improves by an additional 5 feet every two levels afterward. At 15HD it gains permanent True Seeing.

Weapon Finesse: At 1st level, the Awakened Cat gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.

Ability Score Increases/Decreases: At 1st level, the cat takes a -2 penalty to strength, a +2 bonus to dexterity and a +1 bonus to charisma.

Comments:
I think we can safely assume Sciencepanda has abandoned the thread. Anyways, I just wanted to clean some things up (specifically the ridiculous Charm Person DCs), but in the meantime I ended up changing almost everything.
I added a few more class skills, and removed Scent & Weapon Finesse for Cattish Moxie, which I felt was much more flavorful. If they want weapon finesse, they can take it as their 1st feat- they already get a sizable size bonus to attacks anyways. As for scent, while in reality cats really do have an excellent sense of smell, really, do you see a cat snuffling around in the dirt to track something? I didn't think so.
In hunting its prey, a cat is an ambush predator, relying on stealth & speed & maneuverability, and I felt there needed to be compensation for the lost scent, so I gave it the listen bonus.
The intimidate thing was... well, come on. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sAF8gMN9c0) My own 8 lb cat had our 80 lb dog terrified of it.
And then, of course, a cat always lands on its feet.

Also, check out the addendum after lacking fine manipulation.:smallwink:
Anyways, thoughts? Balance issues? Insults? Etc.? Anyone think I should give it weapon finesse again?

Changelog: Mixed up the skills under Moxie (and changed the name) and gave it weapon finesse.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Gargoyle
http://i52.tinypic.com/2ia73tj.jpg (Art by sensevessel)
Gargoyle
Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0|Gargoyle Body, Chiseled Armaments, +1 Con

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+0|Freeze, Stone Skin Fortifications, Chiseled Armaments

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1|Improved Chiseled Armaments, City Prowler, Chiseled Armaments, +1 Con

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Stone Cold Metabolism, Chiseled Armaments, Statuesque Perfection[/table]
Skills Points at 1rst Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skills Points at Each Level: (2+Intelligence Modifier)
Class Skills: The Gargoyle
’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis).

Proficiencies: The Gargoyle gains proficiency with its own natural weapons, but not with other weapons. They are also proficient with light and medium armour, but not with shields or heavy armour.

Gargoyle Class Features: The following are the Class Features of the
Gargoyle.

Gargoyle Body: At first level the Gargoyle loses all racial traits. They become a Medium Monstrous Humanoid with a base land speed of 30ft. They gain two claws as primary natural weapons, dealing 1d4 damage plus Str mod each. They gain a Natural Armour bonus equal to their Con modifier. They have a racial bonus to Hide checks in stone terrain equal to half their HD or their Dex modifier, whichever is more.

Chiseled Armaments: A Gargoyle's form is constantly chipped and repaired, each time becoming more powerful. At each level, a Gargoyle chooses one of the following abilities, with each one being able to be taken more than once, though not two levels in a row:

Stone Armoury: The Gargoyle gains a secondary natural weapon dealing 1d6 damage plus 1/2 Str mod. This can be any type of natural weapon, from a tail slap to a bite to a slam. They also gain a body part appropriate to the new weapon (unless they already have a body part which could be used for the attack), though it lacks fine manipulation regardless of form and cannot be used to qualify for quadruped status and the associated bonuses or bonuses to Balance checks for having more than two legs.

Hideous Visage: They gain the ability to use the Intimidate skill to Demoralise a creature within 30ft of them. This uses a standard action and affects a number of creatures equal to 1/2 their HD (minimum 1). Each point the Gargoyle beats their opponent on the opposed check by adds one round to the duration. The Gargoyle can voluntarily take a -5 penalty to their Intimidate check to give the Frightened condition instead of shaken, or a -10 penalty to give the Panicked condition. They also gain a bonus to Intimidate checks equal to half their HD (minimum 1).

Ambush Hunter: They gain one die of Sudden Strike, adding an additional 1d6 damage to attacks against creatures who are denied their Dexterity bonus to Armour Class. Whenever they qualify to deal Sudden Strike damage, they may forgo the bonus damage die to give an opponent a penalty to their Strength or Dexterity (Gargoyle's choice at time of use) equal to twice the number of Sudden Strike plus twice the number of Sneak Attack die the Gargoyle can deal, lasting until the opponent recieves a Heal check (DC 10+Gargoyle's HD). This effect may be used against opponents immune to the bonus damage dealt by Sudden Strike.

Sudden Strike (detail):
If a Gargoyle can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from their attack, they can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

The Gargoyle’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not). Should the Gargoyle score a critical hit with a sudden strike, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can count as sudden strikes only if the target is within 30 feet.

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a Gargoyle can make a sudden strike that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. They cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sudden strike, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

A Gargoyle can sudden strike only living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sudden strikes. The Gargoyle must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A Gargoyle cannot sudden strike while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Filthy Talons: Any two of a Gargoyle's weapons inflict the disease Filth Fever (Incubation: 1 minute, Infection: Injury, Fort save DC: 10+1/2HDGargoyle's Con mod, Damage: 1d3 Dex, 1d3 Con). The damage to each stat improves by 1 for every two HD the Gargoyle has. At 8HD this becomes a supernatural disease, and cannot be removed except by Remove Disease or similar magic. The Gargoyle can smell any creature that is currently infected by a disease (has not yet made the saves and recieved the spells necessary to remove the disease) clearly within 100 feet per HD. They can pinpoint a creature based on this smell within 10ft per HD, though they still have a miss chance if they cannot see the creature.

Wicked Talons: You may improve the critical threat range or critical modifier of any two of your natural weapons by 1 (e.g. a 20 threat range to 19-20, or a X2 modifier to X3).

Oversized Weapons: You may increase one natural weapon's damage by two size categories or two natural weapons' damage by one size category each. The natural weapons to which this ability is applied become the Gargoyle's primary natural weapon(s), instead of their claws, allowing you to add Str mod to damage for a pair of primary weapons or 1.5XStr mod for a single primary natural weapon (instead of 0.5XStr mod for secondary natural weapons).

Attribute Bonus: The Gargoyle gains a +1 bonus to its Constitution score at first and third level.

Stone Skin Fortifications: Upon reaching second level the Gargoyle gains access to one of the following abilities of their choice:

Tough Skin: Their Natural Armour becomes 1.5 times their Con modifier plus 1 per four Hit Dice (1.5XCon mod+1/4HD), instead of their Con modifier. They also reduce damage from their environment (including non-magical temperature extremes, lightning strikes, sandstorms, as well as falling damage and crushing damage caused by things such as cave-ins) by their natural armour bonus. In addition, their natural weapons are treated as magic for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

Stone Hide: They gain DR/Adamantine equal to half their Hit Dice (minimum 1). In addition, their natural weapons count as Adamantine for the purposes of bypassing hardness and damage reduction.

Zealous Carvings: They gain an enhancement bonus to one save of the player's choice equal to one third their HD (minimum 1). In addition, they gain the Lawful, Evil, Chaotic or Good subtype (choose one, cannot oppose their alignment at the time this ability is chosen, though it may later). For example, a Gargoyle is Chaotic Evil when they gain this ability, so they cannot choose the Good or Lawful subtypes. They choose the Evil subtype, but later their alignment changes to Good. They keep the subtype. They cannot have their alignment forcibly changed from the alignment of this subtype (by a Helm of Opposite Alignment, for example), though they may change from that alignment willingly. Their natural weapons, as well as any weapons they wield, count as being of the alignment matching your chosen subtype for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.

Runecarved Plates: They gain Energy Resistance equal to their HD to Fire, Cold, Electricity or Acid damage. This Energy Resistance stacks with most other sources (exceptions state that they do not stack with anything else). The Gargoyle's natural weapons may be considered magic weapons that deal damage appropriate to the chosen element whenever it would benefit the Gargoyle.

Reflective Scales: The Gargoyle has a miss chance equal to 5% per 3HD (minimum 5%) against any incoming attacks aimed by sight (blindsight and tremorsense remove this chance for example, whilst blindsense would not). In addition, they can become invisible 1/day/4HD (minimum 1) for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 their HD.

Freeze: At 2nd level the Gargoyle learns to hold perfectly still by shutting down organs and reflexes, fooling the most attentive of foes.

They can freeze as a swift action to appear to be inanimate unless the examiner can succeed on a Spot check (from within line of sight) or Heal check (from within 5ft) opposed by the Gargoyle's Disguise check (which recieves a +10 bonus). This lasts until the Gargoyle uses another swift action to reanimate. A Gargoyle that has spent at least five rounds in this state qualifies for a surprise round, whether or not the deception has been seen through. In addition, the Gargoyle gains Light Fortification whilst Frozen (giving a 25% chance to avoid extra damage from critical hits and precision damage). This improves to Medium Fortification at 8HD (50% chance) and Heavy at 14HD (100% chance). The Gargoyle can use this ability to appear dead, and this is the most common use for this ability when outside of areas with an abundance of gargoyle statues.

Improved Chiseled Armaments: Upon reaching third level the Gargoyle hones their body further, adding the following abilities to their list of Chiseled Armaments. Each ability can be taken only once unless specified otherwise.

Stone Heavyweight: The Gargoyle gains Powerful Build. At 14HD the Gargoyle is treated as a quadruped for the purposes of carrying capacity, as well as trip and bullrush attempts. At 20HD the Gargoyle increases by one size category. This ability cannot take the Gargoyle above Collosal size (though it can take them above effective Collosal size, due to Powerful Build).

Horrendous Visage: The Gargoyle gains a gaze attack with a range of 10ft+(5ft/2HD) which inflicts the shaken condition unless the target succeeds on a Will save (DC=5+Intimidate ranks+Cha). If the target succeeds on the save they are immune to that Gargoyle's Horrendous Visage for 24 hours. The Gargoyle can actively focus the gaze on a single target with a standard action, forcing the creature to make a save even if they have previously succeeded on a save and raising the DC by 2. At 14HD the condition inflicted is shaken or frightened, at the Gargoyle's option on successfully inflicting it. At 20HD the condition is panicked or cowering.

Deluge Waterspout: The Gargoyle gains a breath weapon, usable once every 1d4 rounds. It is either a cone with a range of 5ft+5ft/2HD or a line with a range of 10ft+5ft/HD. Anyone in the area may make a Strength check (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod) or be pushed to the nearest unoccupied edge of the breath weapon's area (if a cone) or to the unoccupied edge of the breath weapon's area furthest from the Gargoyle (if a line). It also deals 1d4 bludgeoning damage for every 2HD (DC 10+1/2HD+Con mod Reflex save for half) to each creature in the area. At 14HD the breath weapon deals 1d8 bludgeoning damage per 2HD. At 20HD the Gargoyle can treat half of the damage as either cold damage or fire damage (firing freezing or boiling water instead of their normal torrential blasts), the damage increases to 1d6/HD and the breath weapon can be used every 1d4-1 rounds.

Petrification: One of the Gargoyle's natural weapons gains the ability to petrify a foe it hits, dealing one point of Dexterity damage with each hit. At 14HD, the Dex damage increases to 1d3 and a creature with a Dex of 0 or - takes Con damage from this ability equal to the Dex damage they would normally take. A creature dieing from Con damage from this ability is petrified. At 20HD the ability damage dealt by this ability increases to 1d6 and the Gargoyle becomes immune to petrification effects. In addition, foes reduced to Dex 0 by this ability take one point of Con damage per round.

City Prowler: Also at third level, the Gargoyle starts to gain abilities to move more freely in its natural (or should that be artificial?) environment. It can also glide, effectively gaining a fly speed equal to its base land speed with clumsy maneuverability, except that it cannot move upward. Any attack made during a gliding charge (a dive) deals an additional 1d4 points of damage. In addition, it gains a Climb speed (with all associated bonuses) of 20ft (or half its base land speed, whichever is higher)

At 6HD, this glide speed increases to twice the Gargoyle's base land speed (maximum 120ft) and poor maneuverability. In addition, the Gargoyle can fly upward for 3+Con mod rounds per day, though these rounds need not be consecutive. They may deal additional damage on the first attack of a diving charge equal to the damage they would take if they had fallen through the downward vertical distance covered (up to 1d6 for every HD they have), but they take one third of this bonus damage themselves if they do so.

At 9HD the ability improves again, granting the Gargoyle a true fly speed equal to twice its base land speed (maximum 120ft) with average maneuverability. In addition, they may make a full attack on a diving charge. They may also benefit as if from a Spiderclimb spell constantly as an Extraordinary ability.

Variant: A Kapoacinth lacks the flight of a normal Gargoyle, but can swim much more easily, taking to the sewers where normal Gargoyles take to the rooftops. The Kapoacinth gains a swim speed (and all associated bonuses) equal to its base land speed, as well as the Hold Breath ability, allowing it to hold its breath for 8 times its Constitution score in rounds before it risks drowning. They also gain immunity to natural, but not supernatural, diseases and poisons.

At 6HD, their swim speed improves to twice their base land speed, and they gain the (Aquatic) subtype, gaining the ability to breathe water. They can still breathe air. They gain immunity to supernatural diseases, as well as the sickened and nauseated conditions.

At 9HD, the Kapoacinth can ignore the effects of bogs and similar conditions. They also gain the ability to speak with rats and dire rats (as the Speak With Animals spell) and can attract rats, dire rats and rat swarms within one mile to their location using a scent beacon released as a full-round action (the rats usually taking considerably longer than one round). This scent does not move with the Kapoacinth, and can be released only once per month. Once they have arrived, the rats will attempt to eat enough to blight the area for years to come, attacking in force anyone trying to stop them. They disperse and go as they wish after 1d6 days, though there is no guarantee they will leave.

Statuesque Perfection: At level four their stone body reaches a perfected state. They may choose two new abilities, with either or both of these abilities coming from the Chiseled Armaments list (which includes the Improved Chiseled Armament abilities) or the Stone Skin Fortifications list.

Stone Cold Metabolism: Beginning at 4th level the Gargoyle can slow its metabolism to a crawl. Whilst in this state the Gargoyle is treated as an object with hitpoints equal to its normal maximum and a hardness of 4+HD, and cannot take actions. The Gargoyle becomes immune to effects which only affect creatures and vulnerable to effects which only affect objects. They automatically pass saves against disease and poison whilst in metabolic stasis. Whilst in metabolic stasis they are immune to poisons, bleeding, ability damage and drain, negative and positive energy damage, negative levels, death effects, mind-affecting abilities, fatigue, exhaustion and diseases. Any ongoing effects which only affect creatures are suppressed whilst the Gargoyle is in metabolic stasis. Any ongoing effects which only affect objects are suppressed when the Gargoyle leaves metabolic stasis. In either of these cases they may take effect again if the Gargoyle returns to the appropriate state whilst the effect's duration remains. The Gargoyle does not age whilst in metabolic stasis, nor do they need to eat, drink or breathe. When they leave stasis they do not age an equivalent time or need to eat, drink or breathe for the time they were in stasis. The Gargoyle can use this ability a number of rounds each day equal to 2 X (their HD + their Con mod). These rounds need not be consecutive, but the Gargoyle must decide how many rounds they are using before the enter the state (minimum one round). This ability takes a full-round action to enter. This reduces to a standard action at 8HD, a move action at 12HD, a swift action at 16HD and an Immediate action at 20HD.

The Gargoyle may enter stasis for longer than stated above, but they come out of the stasis after 1d6 days, weeks, months, years or decades (or even longer units of time, at the DM's discretion), at the Gargoyle's option, meaning this option is rarely used.

Comments/Changelog:

Comments
By the time I got to Chiseled Path (Perfection) I knew why the previous people stopped. I may add more of those abilities later, but for now I'm happy with the class. No dead levels and I didn't have to resort to ability score bonuses (though I may add in some if the class is too weak). Complete overhaul of Chiseled Armaments (now every level), Stone Skin Fortifications (new effects) and Statuesque Perfection (which has been rolled into the other abilities). I'm quite happy with the variety now, and it is much better than when it started.

Changelog

14/12/10 - Fixed formatting.
14/12/10 - Added detail to Ambush Hunter and Stone Cold Metabolism. Changed names of all Chiseled Path abilities. Added a new option to Statuesque Perfection, Metabolic Redundancy.
23/12/10 - Large overhaul to many things (mostly Chiseled Armaments, Stone Skin Fortifications and Statuesque Perfection, as stated above).
Chiseled Armaments has far more abilties, as does Stone Skin Fortifications. Chiseled Armaments is now every level. Statuesque Perfection now gives additional choices from other menus, instead of having abilities itself. Stone Cold should be clarified now (at least I hope so).
10/01/11 - Removed the blue from "Gargoyle". Altered proficiencies to include armour. Changed Butchery to Stone Armoury. Growth is now Stone Heavyweight and has some alterations. Water Bullets now has clearer wording and a less rediculous number of dice. Overwhelming Stench no longer exists. Petrification is now much more easy on bookkeeping. Stone Cold is now a swift action at 16HD instead of a free action. Reflective Scales has been boosted, as has Tough Skin. Metabolic Redundancy is now a part of Freeze. Standardised Attribute bonus and added a second point at thrid level.
02/02/11 - Minor miscellaneous changes. Intimidate is now a class skill which Hideous Visage gives bonuses to. Hideous Visage is now a move action. The racial Hide bonus now scales. Filthy Talons' save DC is now higher. The Chiseled Armaments giving the Snatch and Awesome Blow feats are now gone. Water Bullets damage is now reduced.
09/02/11 - A small error was fixed in Stone Heavyweight ("Collosal" is now "Collosal Size"). Scaling on Carved Mobility has been altered, making Flight a less obvious choice. Carved Mobility is now City Prowler, and has been altered significantly. It is no longer a menu of abilities. Carved Mobility is now in a spoiler at the bottom of the stats spoiler, in case I need to re-add it or someone wants to review its latest form.
12/02/11 - Hideous Visage and Ambush Hunter have been improved, allowing them to drop the normal bonuses for a more powerful effect. Stone Cold now specifies actions cannot be taken.
24/02/11 - New picture (much thanks to Hyudra). Gargoyle Body, Reflective Scales and Statuesque Perfection reworded, but are effectively the same. Hide bonus scaling has been altered, as has that of Tough Skin. Filthy Talons' incubation reduced to one minute, and a tracking ability added (may be changed to just Scent, particularly sensitive to disease). Moved brackets around in Zealous Carvings. Runecarved Body altered to make natural weapons count as magic and elemental when it would benefit the Gargoyle (again, much thanks to Hyudra). Freeze is now a swift action to activate and deactivate and gives a surprise round after five rounds of waiting (you never now when they'll come out of it, even if you try to prepare). Water Bullets is now Deluge Waterspout and focuses more on the pushing than the damage. Petrification now increases Dex damage as the target's natural armour rises. Bonuses in City Dweller shifted around to encourage swooping attacks more, with a new ability or two added or adjusted to account for an earlier/later level.
01/03/11 - Intimidate is a class skill, as it should have been for a while. Zealous Carvings now applies to only one save. Hideous Visage is a standard action now. Reflective Scales now has no super-invisibility. Deluge Waterspout has a small clarification.
05/03/11 - Base Natural Armour improved to Con modifier, Tough Skin now raises it to one-and-a-half plus one for every four HD. Stone Body is now Stone Hide. Runecarved Body is now Runecarved Plates. Waterspout Deluge has had its area halved. Petrification no longer raises natural armour on a hit nor scales by natural armour. Horrendous Visage save DC altered to 5+Intimidate Ranks+Cha modifier. Typo in Statuesque Perfection fixed.
10/03/11 - Horrendous Visage wording changed and redundant conditions swapped out for differing ones to achieve the same basic effect (reduce their effectiveness or make them run for the hills as desired).
27/03/11 - Base land speed added. Diving charge now more limited. Petrification now does something at below 14HD (whoops). Deluge Waterspout improved back to usable, and I fixed an unintended effect with the line option. Typo fixed in Zealous Carvings. Improved scaling on Filthy Talons and added Sneak Attack stacking to Ambush Hunter.
03/04/11 - Stacking of Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike in Ambush Hunter altered. Improved scaling on Filthy Talons further. Increased damage of Deluge Waterspout.
06/04/11 - City Prowler diving charge bonus damage less limited (cap increased to d6/HD and recoil lowered to 1/3 of bonus damage). Clarification added to Statuesque Perfection.

Carved Mobility will be kept here in case I need to bring it back or someone wants to know what it was before I removed it:
Carved Mobility: Also at third level, the Gargoyle gains access to one of the following abilities:

Carved Wings: They may gain a flight speed equal to their base land speed at clumsy maneuverability for up to Con mod (minimum 1) rounds per day. These rounds need not be consecutive.

At 6HD there is limit to the rounds the Gargoyle may spend in flight increases to 3+(2 X Con mod) and the maneuverability improves to poor.

At 9HD their flight speed increases to twice their base land speed and their maneuverability increases to average. In addition, there is no limit to the number of rounds the Gargoyle can fly.

OR

Streamlining: They gain a swim speed equal to their base land speed (with all the associated benefits) and they gain the (Aquatic) subtype, allowing them to breathe water. This does not remove their ability to breathe air.

At 6HD their swim speed becomes equal to twice their base land speed and they gain the Jet ability. Once per hour they may make a charge or run action as a full-round action to swim at six times their swim speed. They must move at least 30ft when using this ability, but the movement they take does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

At 9HD the Gargoyle acts as if under the effect of Freedom of Movement while they are submerged in water. They also treat water as one step calmer for the purposes of Swim checks.

OR

Pick Claws: They gain a burrow speed of 10ft+5ft/2HD (to a maximum of their base land speed). This applies when digging through loose soil, sand, clay and substances of similar hardness. They do not leave a usable tunnel.

At 6HD their burrow speed increases to 15ft+5ft/HD (to a maximum of their base land speed). They may leave a usable tunnel by with a diameter equal to the Gargoyle's space.

At 9HD their base land speed for the purposes of their maximum burrow speed increases by 10ft. They may dig through substances with a hardness of at most (1/2 their HD + their Str mod) at full speed. Finally, they gain Tremorsense and Blindsight (based on touch) out to 10ft, with an additional 5ft/HD when burrowing.

[Kajhera]

Whoa, gargoyle. It looks cool and I'll want to check it out in depth - except your table is messed up, and you have 2nd-level abilities after 3rd? :smallconfused: So maybe check your formatting there.

[Rumel]

Awakened Cat

What class would this go with? It's not heavy melee (Barbarian & Fighter), can't use a bow or dagger (Rogue & Ranger) and cast spells (Wizard & Sorcerer)... Maybe 1/2 a Bard or a Mini-Monk?

[Gorgondantess]

What class would this go with? It's not heavy melee (Barbarian & Fighter), can't use a bow or dagger (Rogue & Ranger) and cast spells (Wizard & Sorcerer)... Maybe 1/2 a Bard or a Mini-Monk?

Actually, yes, it can cast spells.
And its natural attacks work fine for stuff like sneak attacking & maneuvers. Yes, a level 19 rogue/level 1 awakened cat can deal over 10d6 damage by clawing somebody.
Or warlock! Or, yes, the firebreathing cat that is the DFA Awakened Cat.

[Kobold-Bard]

What class would this go with? It's not heavy melee (Barbarian & Fighter), can't use a bow or dagger (Rogue & Ranger) and cast spells (Wizard & Sorcerer)... Maybe 1/2 a Bard or a Mini-Monk?

Dragonfire Adept. Or a Ranger and it can ride around on it's animal Companion.

[NineThePuma]

I could see the cat going into Rogue or Fighter. It actually wouldn't be that hard to imagine. Tiny size, three natural attacks. Rogue is natural for the precision damage. I would ditch the SLA, however, and instead grant them a bonus to Diplomacy equal to their HD or 1/2 their HD.

Monk or Rogue would work best for the cat, but I'm not sure that something like Fighter should be ruled out.

[Darkkwalker]

Requesting Kolyarut.
Also, many thanks for this project. It is, besides the culmination of the Vote Up a Campaign Setting, my most watched thread(s).

[Rumel]

Actually, yes, it can cast spells.
And its natural attacks work fine for stuff like sneak attacking & maneuvers. Yes, a level 19 rogue/level 1 awakened cat can deal over 10d6 damage by clawing somebody.
Or warlock! Or, yes, the firebreathing cat that is the DFA Awakened Cat.

Wait... Don't you need limbs capable of fine manipulation for spells?

[Gorgondantess]

I could see the cat going into Rogue or Fighter. It actually wouldn't be that hard to imagine. Tiny size, three natural attacks. Rogue is natural for the precision damage. I would ditch the SLA, however, and instead grant them a bonus to Diplomacy equal to their HD or 1/2 their HD.

Monk or Rogue would work best for the cat, but I'm not sure that something like Fighter should be ruled out.

The biggest problem with the cat is that, being tiny sized, it needs to enter an opponent's space to attack it, which provokes an AoO. But rogue works because they can't make an AoO if they don't know you're there.:smallamused:



Wait... Don't you need limbs capable of fine manipulation for spells?
Please read the sentence directly after it states they don't get fine manipulation.:smallsigh:

[Rumel]

The biggest problem with the cat is that, being tiny sized, it needs to enter an opponent's space to attack it, which provokes an AoO. But rogue works because they can't make an AoO if they don't know you're there.:smallamused:



Please read the sentence directly after it states they don't get fine manipulation.:smallsigh:

My bad... You know, the little person feats ("confound the big folk" and such) would make you a monster... A tiny, tiny, tiny monster

[Gorgondantess]

My bad... You know, the little person feats ("confound the big folk" and such) would make you a monster... A tiny, tiny, tiny monster

You're a cat. You're already a monster.:smallwink:

[NineThePuma]

No response to my Anti Charm Person SLA sentiment?

[Rumel]

No response to my Anti Charm Person SLA sentiment?

How about a +HD bonus to all Cha based checks?

[Rumel]

You're a cat. You're already a monster.:smallwink:

Touché Pussycat (Tom & Jerry reference, Yeah!)

[Gorgondantess]

No response to my Anti Charm Person SLA sentiment?

Eh, I didn't want to change it too much from the original monster. Besides, it already gets skill bonuses out the wazoo.
I'm thinking of changing it to an (ex) ability, though. Thoughts?

[NineThePuma]

It's already an Ex.

What if it had it as an "always on" affects everybody, but the DC is (5+1/4 HD + 'cha Mod)? Weaker, but more hilarious.

[Rumel]

Eh, I didn't want to change it too much from the original monster. Besides, it already gets skill bonuses out the wazoo.
I'm thinking of changing it to an (ex) ability, though. Thoughts?

Of course... It's not like the cat magically charms people... It's looks do that.

[Zeofar]

Awakened Cat:
It should get it's +5 bonus to avoid falling damage to jump instead of tumble.

[Gorgondantess]

It's already an Ex.

What if it had it as an "always on" affects everybody, but the DC is (5+1/4 HD + 'cha Mod)? Weaker, but more hilarious.
Eh, that'd be a little clumsy. I'm not a fan of aura effects- in order to be balanced, they have to be minor effects, and then the DM is rolling saves left & right for tiny little things that just add up a bunch of bookwork and don't make much of a difference. 1-save gazes are a much more efficient no-action mechanic.


Awakened Cat:
It should get it's +5 bonus to avoid falling damage to jump instead of tumble.
Tumble is the skill used to avoid falling damage.:smallconfused:

[Tacitus]

Jumping intentionally can reduce it, and so can Tumble. With a racial bonus to all jumps and the focused bonus to tumble you get a bonus to each, so yeah.

[Rumel]

Replaced my Lich's abilities with upgraded versions of the original... I think it's looking good...

I probably just jinxed that

[bladesmith]

More reviews!

Thorn:
1) The first thing I noticed was the natural armor. Being equal to it CON modifier puts the Thorn on par with a lot of other, much 'tougher' classes. Admittedly, that's probably just me being silly, but it seems a little much for a class that can get armor as easily as any halfling.
2) Misspelling of "lethal" in the Weapon of Thorns ability. Otherwise, this ability seems cool, and ensures that no Thorn should ever be without a proper weapon. My only real problem is that you never state how many times per day you can use the 4th level magical enhancement part of it. Or do you just get it once per encounter? That seems to be what it implies, though it seems like a little much to me. Maybe 1/2HD /day, minimum 1?
3) The ability boosts seem like a lot over a 4 level progression, but that isn't a bad thing.
4) Protection of the courts is nice, and helps this class manage to take a hit, even with small HD and no CON bonus.
5) Subduing strike is cool, and works well with a bunch of stealth classes. However, you might want to note how it works with other sneak attack style abilities, like Sudden Strike and Skirmish.
6) I do like your changes to Slumbering shots, letting them be used even if you are wielding a melee weapon, though much more effective with a ranged weapon. I pronounce this ability fun.
7) Weapon of Barbs is awesome. Getting Dex to damage really bumps up your damage output(especially after getting +4 Dex with the class), and it gives more fun combat options. The only thing I have against it is in the melee option. When you refer to the weapon's 'enhancement bonus' when deciding how much natural armor you strip away, is that its straight enhancement bonus, or the total enhancement to the weapon? Does a +1 Vorpal sword take 1 point of natural armor, or 6?
Overall, I like the sneaky warrior feel of this class, and the non-lethal options make it an excellent addition to any fae court. Good job.

Ankheg:
The only thing I have to say about this class is that the formatting of the skills bothers me. One extra line with "The Ankheg's class skills(and the key ability for each skill) are..." would make it much prettier. While I'd still be a little worried about tunneling at first level, the material restrictions keep it from being dungeon breaking(since most dungeons are stone, or what not) so I'm not too worried about it. In the end, I am quite willing to nominate this monster, if my vote counts at all.

Gibbering Mouther:
1) You are getting close, Betropper, but your Ref save is still a little wonky. Do you think you could change it to match the Will save, rather then the BAB?
2) I like the changes you've made. Eyebite in the middle of the Gibbering progression might seem a little odd, but I think it works out pretty well overall. You should probably state somewhere the effective caster level of the spells(CL=HD), though. Just for us easily confused types.
3) Also digging the change to engulf. Being able to focus in on the engulfed foe and really start tearing them apart is cool, but you are spending a full round for something that they could completely save against. Ask around, but perhaps save vs. half damage would be more appropriate?
This one is close to being done, and however much I may or may not like gibbering mouthers, this is an honestly neat class. It stays quite close to the original concept, and gives the player a lot of cool stuff(at the expense of being a disgusting pile of eyes and mouths:smalltongue:).

Hey, can I suggest the return of the Featured Monster? It might help focus the critiques, particularly if the featured monster is only changed when the previous one is accepted as canon. Pick one nearly finished creature, and stick it up there so that people will go for it first, and it will get done quicker. In theory at least.
Also, I am working on a Remorhaz class, though if someone else is already doing it, please don't let me stop you. Knowing me, it could take a while before the class is at all usable.

[Kajhera]

Excellent, thank you! For nomination and starting the remorhaz. I put the line in about the skills. Your vote certainly counts; err, actually I'm not sure if it does. Are you an expert or an amateur? I need amateur votes. :smallamused: Or do they follow rules like those for spells?

[Tvtyrant]

Not to argue with already established monsters, but for the Beholder I think using the Binder system of once every 5 turns for Disintegrate and Finger of Death seems both closer to the Beholders actual abilities and the powerlevel a level 13 character would have. A wizard of level 13 can actually cast the Beholders' signature abilities more often then it can :smalleek:

So I personally think once every 5 turns for the two Greater Rays and then at will for the others would be better. Make the Greater Rays exclusive; the Beholder can't fire the other rays on a round where it fired the Greater Rays if it seems too powerful otherwise. (Greater Rays would be Disintegrate and Finger of Death).

[bladesmith]

Definitely an amateur vote. I has no credentials, and when the Remorhaz is finished, it will be my first homebrew other then a couple of never used joke prc's. Also, more reviews!

Umber Hulk:
1) Something I probably should have mentioned last time, but perhaps the claw attacks should only add STR, rather then STR x1.5. Since you get 2 of them, after all.
2) Wreck the Earth is looking a lot better, though I might make a couple more suggestions. First, rather then having a victim remain prone for more then one round(since getting up is fairly easy) perhaps have them thrown back further, or stunned for one round at 6HD, with the stun length getting longer. Also, it may be easier to just give a static bonus on the save from Balance. "If a character has 5 or more ranks in Balance, they gain a +4 bonus on the saving throw". Something like that, just to make it a bit simpler. (Oh, and if you want the save for the ground shaking to be a bit less, try 10+Str.)
3) Thanks for clarifying WAAAARRRRRGGGG!(Side note: Can you come up with a name that is easier to spell? :smalltongue:), it looks good to me. And I like the part about about your Tool of the Trade exploding(its the condensed awesome of your invention driving the pieces apart), along with the mostly cosmetic point of damage. You might want to make the radius a bit smaller(how do the pieces fly that far?), just because. Though, I guess I can see the flavor in your exploding weapon essentially hitting everyone on the battlefield.
4) Feats =AWESOME. IN ALL CAPS.
Hurry up and finish this baby. I wanna play it.:smallbiggrin:

Living Spell: Trying something a little more complicated.
1) The table looks good, and the skills/BAB/HD all say pseudo-caster. Which seems to be the case.
2) Your Spell Body mentions Silence based spells not being able to speak, but I can't find any silence spells in the track list. Should this be silent spells, spells with no verbal components, or is it just covering in case someone makes a Silence track? Also, do the magic items you engulf also have to resist your anima? Because it would be a little depressing if the Cloak of Charisma you wanted was fried by your Fire anima when you tried to put it on.
3) In the upgrades section of the Anima, the wording of the example in Double is a little confusing. Replacing the 'could' with 'cost' in "maintaining a 4th level spell would could only 1 upgrade" might clear it up.
4) In the tracks section, wouldn't the Dispel Magic be a targeted dispel, rather then area as is stated in the table? Also, with beneficial spells like Globe of Invulnerability, are they automatically cast on an enemy with a slam attack? Because that would kinda be a bummer if you are buffing your enemies while only doing 1d4+STR damage. On the other hand, it would be pretty great for buffing allies if you can be selective about it. On the Death Track, could you find a more appropriate spell then Shatter. It seems a little out of place. Perhaps Death Knell? Other then that, the spell selection looks great.
5) As much as I know there is more to D&D then combat, I wonder at how some of the spells are useful, and/or how the player will try to interpret how a slammed enemy will be affected by the anima. Take the Fog track, for example. Is an opponent instantly the center for a Fog spell? Does he just take the negative effects of each Fog as it is puffed in his face? Does an Obscuring Mist gain a miss chance for being so very misty? I hate to admit it, but you really should consider going through and explaining a lot of the non-obvious ones, before some scheming player tries to pull a fast one with a loose interpretation of what his living spell does. As I understand it, only things touched are affected by your Anima, rather then being able to cast the spell at will, right? Perhaps focus on that. I think a lot of what you are working against is that the anima is supposed to effect EVERYTHING the living spell interacts with. Which means that someone is going to have to figure out what happens with that spell in a lot of different situations. Some things are simple: the LS with fire as his primary track should not enter the inn, because it will set the wood floor on fire. Some things will be more complicated, and it would be nice if you could account for as many of those as possible. Which will admittedly be a lot of work.
6) I'm a little worried about about the Speed of Magic, feature, as it seems a little... Fast. I guess I really shouldn't complain, but the thought of a fireball ooze zipping around the battlefield is a little odd. No, scratch that. Its pretty cool. Carry on.
7) Magesight gives you the ability to sense casters, but as the Detect Evil spell? I guess that makes sense, but wouldn't it be more applicable/easier to understand if you made it a restricted form of Arcane Sight? Or would that be silly?
8) Flight? Random flying oozes? This almost seems like something that should come as a Track Trick, or something, rather then being standard for all living spells.
9) The track resistance and tricks all look great, though the Sleep track makes it sound like a living water-bed.:smallbiggrin: Still, Cool stuff. Cast self is also neat, though it makes me imagine the ooze actually lobbing a chunk of itself at the target.
10) The Circles are a neat way to increase power over the long run with upgrades, but I am a little confused on the short-term uses. It says that it increases the maximum spell level for that time, but does that actually change the spell? Or does it just bump the max spell up, and you get to apply an upgrade with that new spell level?
11) One question for Anima Feedback, but does it work against reach weapons? A lot of similar effects do not, which is why I am curious.
12) Meta sculpt and Living Metamagic are neat ways to give the class a little more versatility without making it easy to be the Batman ooze. I was going to say something about Living Metamagic even, but you beat me to fixing it without even knowing what I was going to whine about. :smalltongue:
Everything else seems well explained and generally awesome, so I'll just say that for an extremely open-ended class with complex class abilities and plenty of player choices to be made in the progression, you've done an extremely thorough job, and with a little modification, I would be quite willing to play one, or give my players the option to play one. Because it would be cool, and I could tease them with all the little things they do unwittingly with their anima.:smallbiggrin:

[Betropper]

Made some changes to the gibbering mouther.

[Magicyop]

I know the unfinished monsters post hasn't been updated for the last page, sorry about that, I'll get on it right now.

Yellow Musk Creeper has been updated to power-down the zombies and fix the photosynthesis, along with a host of other changes.

I'll make the featured monster return, then. :smalltongue: But let's all pitch together and try to work at it, okay?

Oh, and I don't see why Expert Nominations can't count as Amateur nominations. The Expert is a minimum requirement. If you have more Expert nominations than needed, I think the rest should go into Amateur, right?

Bladesmith, before I look through your critique, I want to thank you for critiquing one of my "long classes". :smalltongue:



Living Spell: Trying something a little more complicated.
1) The table looks good, and the skills/BAB/HD all say pseudo-caster. Which seems to be the case.

Yup.


2) Your Spell Body mentions Silence based spells not being able to speak, but I can't find any silence spells in the track list. Should this be silent spells, spells with no verbal components, or is it just covering in case someone makes a Silence track? Also, do the magic items you engulf also have to resist your anima? Because it would be a little depressing if the Cloak of Charisma you wanted was fried by your Fire anima when you tried to put it on.

Well, the idea is the players and DMs can easily think up their own tracks. And, hey, everyone else can too. Niezck posted a knowledge track at some point, I may try to find that and revise it and add it to the class. But yeah, it's meant to be open-ended. No, magic items are not effected by your anima when you absorb them, I suppose I should specify that.


3) In the upgrades section of the Anima, the wording of the example in Double is a little confusing. Replacing the 'could' with 'cost' in "maintaining a 4th level spell would could only 1 upgrade" might clear it up.

Oops. :smallredface: Thank you.


4) In the tracks section, wouldn't the Dispel Magic be a targeted dispel, rather then area as is stated in the table? Also, with beneficial spells like Globe of Invulnerability, are they automatically cast on an enemy with a slam attack? Because that would kinda be a bummer if you are buffing your enemies while only doing 1d4+STR damage. On the other hand, it would be pretty great for buffing allies if you can be selective about it. On the Death Track, could you find a more appropriate spell then Shatter. It seems a little out of place. Perhaps Death Knell? Other then that, the spell selection looks great.

Yeah, you're right about Dispel Magic. Well, it is stated that the Living Spell IS the effect of the spell, they do not produce the effect. So you don't buff your enemies with Globe of Invulnerability, you ARE a Globe of Invulnerability. You are immune to the spells it excludes, as is anyone standing inside of you. You are the globe, you don't create a bunch of globes. The idea behind Shatter is that the Death Track was originally the Death and Destruction Track, devoted to spells which destroy, not animate dead necromancy type things. I shortened the name


5) As much as I know there is more to D&D then combat, I wonder at how some of the spells are useful, and/or how the player will try to interpret how a slammed enemy will be affected by the anima. Take the Fog track, for example. Is an opponent instantly the center for a Fog spell? Does he just take the negative effects of each Fog as it is puffed in his face? Does an Obscuring Mist gain a miss chance for being so very misty? I hate to admit it, but you really should consider going through and explaining a lot of the non-obvious ones, before some scheming player tries to pull a fast one with a loose interpretation of what his living spell does. As I understand it, only things touched are affected by your Anima, rather then being able to cast the spell at will, right? Perhaps focus on that. I think a lot of what you are working against is that the anima is supposed to effect EVERYTHING the living spell interacts with. Which means that someone is going to have to figure out what happens with that spell in a lot of different situations. Some things are simple: the LS with fire as his primary track should not enter the inn, because it will set the wood floor on fire. Some things will be more complicated, and it would be nice if you could account for as many of those as possible. Which will admittedly be a lot of work.

Fair enough, interpretation could be a big problem.


6) I'm a little worried about about the Speed of Magic, feature, as it seems a little... Fast. I guess I really shouldn't complain, but the thought of a fireball ooze zipping around the battlefield is a little odd. No, scratch that. Its pretty cool. Carry on.
:smalltongue:




7) Magesight gives you the ability to sense casters, but as the Detect Evil spell? I guess that makes sense, but wouldn't it be more applicable/easier to understand if you made it a restricted form of Arcane Sight? Or would that be silly?

No, not silly at all... maybe that would be easier book-keeping.


8) Flight? Random flying oozes? This almost seems like something that should come as a Track Trick, or something, rather then being standard for all living spells.

Well, I don't picture the Living Spell as... you know, a Gelatinous Cube. It's a spell. A fireball is a crackling sphere of fire. And spells themselves usually fly through the air. Imagine launching yourself through the air to hit an enemy, as a Living Fireball.


9) The track resistance and tricks all look great, though the Sleep track makes it sound like a living water-bed.:smallbiggrin: Still, Cool stuff. Cast self is also neat, though it makes me imagine the ooze actually lobbing a chunk of itself at the target.

Which is kinda cool, you have to admit.


10) The Circles are a neat way to increase power over the long run with upgrades, but I am a little confused on the short-term uses. It says that it increases the maximum spell level for that time, but does that actually change the spell? Or does it just bump the max spell up, and you get to apply an upgrade with that new spell level?

No, it actually changes the spell. It actually changes you into the level of spell for your primary track which it specifies.


11) One question for Anima Feedback, but does it work against reach weapons? A lot of similar effects do not, which is why I am curious.

Good point, let me think about it.


12) Meta sculpt and Living Metamagic are neat ways to give the class a little more versatility without making it easy to be the Batman ooze. I was going to say something about Living Metamagic even, but you beat me to fixing it without even knowing what I was going to whine about. :smalltongue:
Everything else seems well explained and generally awesome, so I'll just say that for an extremely open-ended class with complex class abilities and plenty of player choices to be made in the progression, you've done an extremely thorough job, and with a little modification, I would be quite willing to play one, or give my players the option to play one. Because it would be cool, and I could tease them with all the little things they do unwittingly with their anima.:smallbiggrin:

Thanks! I'm glad that on the whole, it works.

I'll get around to specifying every spell, at least one sentence per. However, I will be clear that not every spell in the Anima will have a combat based effect.

Ankheg: Overall, quite a nice class. You've made something flavorful out of a monster which was originally pretty bland. Body feature looks good, as do HD and skills. Table looks fine.

Tunneling: Looks good, but why should you specify that the tunnel is 5 ft? Say that it has a size equal to the Ankheg's height, and mechanically, is usable by creatures of the Ankheg's size or smaller.
Lunge: This is a fun ability! I like it. Mechanically balanced and fairly powerful, flavor-wise, nifty.
Ant Lion Attack: Why must it end in an open space? Or, I assume if they made a tunnel while they're using the attack, that would count, right? Because nothing's more fun than just slamming an enemy down through layers of stone to rest at the bottom of a deep grave.
Improved Grab: Yeah, this totally works with the class. I like it.
Spit Acid: Again, really nice. Good way to give it a breath weapon without making it too powerful.
Growth looks fine to me.
I have one suggestion, and I think I offered this before. The Ankheg monster is dripping with acid. It gets acid bonus to damage on its natural attacks. I feel like this should get the same. It's like acid is running through its veins. I'm not saying you NEED to add this ability, it's fine without it. But I think it would be fun, and would add an edge to its natural attacks. (Doesn't have to be a LOT of acid damage.)

Overall, I'm definitely willing to nominate this, (and when I do, it will be our first finished monster of the thread, since it has 2 Expert and 3 Amateur. Three huzzahs!) if you address my concerns for tunneling and Ant Lion Attack. You don't need to change anything, just tell me why those are the way they are, if you have a good reason.


EDIT: Living Spell has been edited to specify on all the spells that seemed unclear, if any more seem unclear to you, let me know. I'll get to editing the other class features, if necessary, later.

EDIT2:

Umber Hulk: Wow. I'm... really impressed. This is a thoroughly AWESOME monster class. Kudos to you!

Hit Dice, Table, and Skills look okay to me.
Ability Increases: Flavorwise, I almost want it to gain even more strength, but balancewise, it looks okay. Maybe give them some ability to have their strength increase even more as they HD up? Not very much, but just a little. In the same vein as Therianthropes gain more ability increases as they level.
Umber Body is nice, fun!
Object=Pain: One word. EPIC. This is a fantastic ability, but I would also let them use unwilling enemies, if they succeed on a grapple check or something. Nothing cooler than picking up a screaming and protesting enemy and smashing another enemy's skull in with the skull of the first enemy.
Confusing Gaze: Nicely done. Seems a little bit away from the flavor of the class, but I can see why it's there, and it works.
Grab and Smash: Good ability!
Tremorsense: Perfect. Perfect. Just what this class needs. Gives it the ability to be hulking and huge, but still be surprisingly clever about noticing its surroundings.
Growth: Mmmm... I almost want this guy to gain Powerful Build. As Hyudra said, it doesn't fit all monsters, but this guy, I feel like it does. I mean, come on, this is the incredible umber hulk. And... maybe he should grow to Huge and some point in his HD? He doesn't need to reach, you know, colossal or gargantuan or anything, because he's not a giant, but reaching the size of an enormous warrior at high HD would be great.
Wreck the Earth: AWESOME! One thing, though-- do make it so the flying creature range scales with HD, so you can hit those high-flying dragons eventually. Also, make it so the range creatures are flung scales, just like the prone duration. Otherwise, the perfect ability.
HULK SMASH: Looks good to me. Gives you the Barbarian's signature ability without stealing their thunder, since you don't gain all their improved rages.
Object=PAIN!: Yeah, this works. I like it.
WAAAAARG: Cool near-death ability. Really cinematic, from a roleplaying perspective.
Tools of the Trade: You say the weapon has enchantment equal to its HD/4. Weapons to not have HD. Mention that you mean YOUR HD, not the weapon's. Otherwise, great ability.
Multi Beatdown: Nicely done, great feat for this class.
Pimp my Beatstick: Again, very cool. Very cool.
Posh Beatstick: Haha. Fun. I love it.

Okay, so... this is a really cool class. A really really cool class. Can't wait to see it up there.

[TheGeckoKing]

Right, changes made on the Umber Hulk. Glad you all like it :smallbiggrin:

[Hyudra]

With the return of the Featured Monster, might I request the Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9604492#post9604492) be included on the list? It was created & nearly finished 2 months ago, and I've recently polished it, so I'm just waiting for the final verdict & look-over, there.

Will be posting my critiques of recent entries in a few minutes.

[Magicyop]

With the return of the Featured Monster, might I request the Purple Worm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9604492#post9604492) be included on the list? It was created & nearly finished 2 months ago, and I've recently polished it, so I'm just waiting for the final verdict & look-over, there.

Will be posting my critiques of recent entries in a few minutes.

Actually, yes, Purple Worm is my choice for the next Featured Monster once Bleakborn is done. After that, I'm thinking... Solamith?

Umber Hulk looks good to me, I'll give it a nomination.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Whoa, gargoyle. It looks cool and I'll want to check it out in depth - except your table is messed up, and you have 2nd-level abilities after 3rd? :smallconfused: So maybe check your formatting there.

I had to take the post onto a Wordpad document temporarily, which screwed up the formatting a fair bit. The 2nd level abilities after third is probably because I made a single section for all the Chiseled Path abilities rather than giving each one its own section. The table is now fixed, but the single section for Chiseled Path is still there. I'll change it if anyone asks (and I would understand why) but I'll leave it until then.

[Hyudra]

Dwarf Ancestor
Ancestral Knowledge could/should be used to count towards prestige classes and variant class options (so one might be able to use it for dungeon crasher?) in addition to feats.
Dwarven Warcraft - Spellcheck is your friend. 'penaly' should be 'penalty'.
I really like what you did with this ability. As far as I can remember, my initial complaints about the Dwarven Ancestor had to do with the 'tank' nature of it, without the ability to force enemies to deal with it (so you were tough, but enemies would just beat up your friends and ignore you, then focus their efforts on you, or leave you to drag your buddies to the temple for resurrection). This works nicely. Kudos.
Dwarven Hammer - So, uh, as compared to a rogue of equivalent level, you get their sneak attack, minus the prerequisites, with gravy, that just doesn't scale as well, as a drawback? I'm not sure I see the design intent here. This needs to scale, and it needs to not eclipse low level rogues in effective bonus damage.
Stone Warcraft - "Any sort of movement" is really vague, and this leads to arguments. Just off the top of my head, a dwarf standing on a balcony in Sharn, city of towers. An enemy falls from a ledge above, past the dwarven ancestor leading to 4+ attacks of opportunity? Do these attacks count against your per-round limit?
Still don't like how the (now staggered) strength bonuses add to the full BAB.
Overall, a pretty good entry that needs a few screws tightened here and there, but actually stands out with a unique role & methodology among the monster classes.


Demi-Lich

Prequisites are weird. 20+ HD? How many campaigns really go that far?
What's with the skill list? You've got 4 skill points per level... and 30 skills on the list? Iajitsu Focus?
Fine size on a caster is... quite an advantage. But you're epic level, so AC/hit bonuses are already screwed over, so can't say much here.
The 'if his Phylactery is set in the chest of a body of items...' feels forced.
Under ability score bonuses, could you just note when which score is gained, in addition to the total?
Under metamagic feats, you misspelled prerequisites.
Forceful personality is... kind of broken. Assuming you already have SR from another source, you're adding anywhere from a +6 to a +8, and effectively making yourself immune to most spells.
Soul Steal's description is missing words. "The most feared ability of the Demi-Lich, [missing words] every 4HD you have you may store another person's soul inside one of your gems ..." Once a day for... Once per hour? Once per minute? Once per year? Something else? You need to state how often it is usable, how it is performed and whether there's a save.
Darker Touch is flat out useless at epic level. Your enemies are going to have 100+ hitpoints and you're dealing an average of what? 15 damage?
You're basing everything off this vague "spellcasting ability mod", which causes a bit of a problem where you're SAD (single-attribute-dependent)... and that's never good.
The caster level check under improved darker touch is... rather easy to beat. There's a reason we base stuff off of 10+HD+{attribute mod}. The DCs, as well, are so easy to beat a level 20+ character is liable to beat it with a 'take 0'.
Deathless Terror is pretty useless. HD does not parallel CR, so at level 21 you're up against creatures like a young force dragon (30 HD). It's... just not going to be very useful as abilities go. Sorry.
Soul Absorption is way too good. You're looking at an easy +5-10 to your primary spellcasting stat after defeating another epic level threat.
Overall, the demilich is in need of major revision. It feels like a sub-epic creature at some points and epic level at others, and has a very confused feel to the design.


Jovoc

Grammar under Body of Vengeance - too many 'and's.
Retributive Aura:
Adds up to a whole lot of saving throws & damage calculation, threatening to bog down combat. Picture a fight against 4 other enemies. Each makes 2 ranged attacks against you... so now you've gotta check AC, roll to hit, roll damage, add up damage bonus, account for energy resistance (if applicable), reduce amount appropriate for DR, halve that, each of the 4 enemies has to make a saving throw, then you apply and note the damage each takes... Now do that 8 times each round.
The bonuses that crop up at 5HD and 9HD are borderline overpowered, if the ability wasn't already. Hell, a case could be made for the Jovoc damaging itself to deal guaranteed damage to every creature in range.
Rapid recovery kind of screws over any ability damage. Probably needs to be toned down.
Shared Doom: How does the victim harm you through the link?
The key ability (retributive aura) is a bit much, I think, the key abilities of the class need to be toned down just a smidge.


Awakened Cat

Let me state for the record, not a fan of the tone set by the picture or the adorable ability, but I'm a humorless scrooge that way.
If I have any complaints, it is that the awakened cat is an insane 1-level dip for many classes. I mean, is there any warlock out there that wouldn't want tiny size (with all the inherent bonuses), charm, huge skill bonuses to skills that matter, true seeing and good ability scores, with no loss in land speed or meaningful ability score penalty?

It doesn't sit well with me, mechanically or flavorwise. I was kind of glad to see it drop off the radar, before, and while your updates do improve the class, Gorgon, I still maintain it is a fairly ridiculous one-level dip, considering the gains.


Gargoyle

Really needs spoiler tags everywhere to tidy itself up. The table is a mess, and it's hard to look past all the 'or' abilities to discern the ability progression, without more spoiler tags. Can't really review it in this state, sorry.

[Magicyop]

Gibbering Mouther: Ok, first impression is that it looks like a fun monster, but it's not sure what role it's going for. Melee? Support? What are you thinking it could go into after this?

Strange Body: Whoa, okay, hold on. Some monsters can wear armor specially made for them. This should not be one of them. In my opinion, this monster epitomizes chaos. It's a swirling blob of mouths and gibbering, oozing along like a sluglike tidal wave of insanity. How can you possibly fit armor to that?
Blood Drain: It becomes a free action? I think you probably mean... swift action. Otherwise I could be all, "I make seventy billion blood drain attempts by latching on and off. Make seventy billion saves." I see where you're trying to go, but just note that it takes one swift action to latch all mouths which made a bite attack on. Also, it's worded a little bit unclearly, note that each mouth which succeeded a bite attack may latch onto the bitten target. Otherwise, fun ability.
Spittle: Range maybe should scale with HD, as should blind duration? Is this a breath weapon or a skin secretion or what? It matters, because if it's a breath weapon, there are lots of things to effect breath weapons.
Gibbering: Eyebite is almost better than Insanity. Also, Weird... how exactly does that work? Weird is just an area phantasmal killer.
Ground Manipulation: Fun ability! I think it should be more dangerous than just difficult terrain, though... maybe say that after being in it for X rounds they are entangled, after another X rounds they are immobilized, after another X rounds they start suffocating... something like that. Maybe not quite so complicated, but something to mimic actual quicksand.
Engulf: What... what is this? Is this a swallow whole? If so it should be mentioned that it is a swallow whole attempt. I get the utility, and the concept is awesome. But mechanically, it's a little bit... off.
Growth: Looks like an okay pattern to me, but you might want to stretch it out a bit more. This doesn't seem like the kind of monster which is colossal right at 20th. Maybe every 6 HD instead of 5?

Overall, don't get me wrong, it does look fun. It's a crazy chaotic aberrant creature with a ton of mouths. Looks like with a little touching up it could be a really great class. Hope my comments are helpful!

EDIT: Hyudra, for the Demi-lich prerequisites, the idea is that it's basically a class for epic campaigns. It's an Epic Template. It deals with features mentioned in the Epic Level Handbook, which is specifically 21+. Epic Level Handbook is the original source of the Demilich, and the whole idea is that it's the epic level progression for the Lich.

[Kobold-Bard]

Who constitutes an expert nomination?

[Magicyop]

Who constitutes an expert nomination?

As detailed in the first post, those with 5 or more finished monsters. However, we have been discussing a compromise which will likely be instituted soon, which will overhaul the system and hopefully make it work more rigorously and more efficiently, without losing the democratic aspect that we were aiming for with the creation of this thread.

[Hyudra]

EDIT: Hyudra, for the Demi-lich prerequisites, the idea is that it's basically a class for epic campaigns. It's an Epic Template. It deals with features mentioned in the Epic Level Handbook, which is specifically 21+. Epic Level Handbook is the original source of the Demilich, and the whole idea is that it's the epic level progression for the Lich.

I'm aware, but I was trying to draw attention to the schizophrenic design where some parts of the class are notably pre-epic (the 2d8 damage thing, the fear aura) while others are post-epic (the prereq, soul gem).


As detailed in the first post, those with 5 or more finished monsters. However, we have been discussing a compromise which will likely be instituted soon, which will overhaul the system and hopefully make it work more rigorously and more efficiently, without losing the democratic aspect that we were aiming for with the creation of this thread.

Aye. The trouble we've been running into with the nomination system is that it's really slowing down the process of getting monsters added to the list (with no real benefit, aside from more people having a say) and it's kind of confusing, as our resident kobold bard just pointed out. So we're aiming for a way to give many people a voice without creating such a backlog of creatures waiting to be added to the list.

We'll probably be posting about the agreed-upon changes to the system in the next day or three.

[bladesmith]

Bleakborn: I really can't find anything wrong with this class. I might just be missing something, but it looks good to me. A nice mixture of mediocre melee abilities with a few powerful abilities. The big plus seems to be the class' resilience, and being able to win through attrition rather then pure damage. I like it. I nominate this monster.

Umber Hulk:
1) I keep catching these things on subsequent look-throughs, but why is Ride a class skill? I'm trying to imagine an umber hulk riding something, and mostly it just looks really ridiculous. Then again, most of the things in my mind are pretty ridiculous.
2) Also interesting that you continue the STR growth after the class is done. Not sure I know of any of the other classes that do that, so I'm wondering how necessary it is. Though, it does fit the flavor of the class.
3) Liking how you used the Horrid Monster prc to get your modified Hulk, and the powerful build ability. However, it may bring up some balance issues with...
4) The at-will Confusion. With all the other stuff, having Confusion on all the time seems like a little much. Maybe give it a use/day, or make it a standard action. Maybe make it easier to use/use more often as HD go up, so that it reaches full potential somewhere around 15th level, when it will be a little less game-breaking. That, and you should probably note a range for the gaze.
Argh! Sorry about the little nit-picky things I keep bringing up.

[Kajhera]

Ankheg's Spit Acid changed to Acid Spit, and now it boosts your bite a touch as well.
Removed the line about having to end in an open space, because the problem it was meant to solve could still easily come up anyway, and it was getting confusing to write more on.
Changed Tunneling to just be as wide and tall as the Ankheg.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Really needs spoiler tags everywhere to tidy itself up. The table is a mess, and it's hard to look past all the 'or' abilities to discern the ability progression, without more spoiler tags. Can't really review it in this state, sorry.

That's fine, the table was screwed up, though it should be fixed now. I've made a separate entry for each instance of Chiseled Path and spoilered the options for each. I've also spoilered the whole class to save space and stop iritating anyone who doesn't want to scroll past the whole thing.

[Magicyop]

Half-Golem: Yeah, this is an awesome revision. The sheer number of options it allows is... amazing.

Okay, so first thing: I agree that you should somehow be able to take it more than once, or take a repeating one level dip that grants you an additional construction material. Perhaps increase the danger to your humanity each time, but combining some of these would be awesome.
Prerequisites, table, and skills look good to me.
The Danger: I love it. The wavering border between success and failure is a cool idea.
Prototype Body: Cool! Fun and useful, and doesn't seem too overpowered. No love for the adamantine golem though? Maybe I'll see why looking at its other features?
Ability Increase: Looks fine.
Golem Plate: I... I almost want the DR overcoming to be based on your material, as much more work as that would be. Birthday Cake resisting all but adamantine doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Magic Resistance: A little on the high side, but good!
Improvement: Nice area for customization.
Construction Material:
Adamantine: Oh, I see why. Strong, but I like it.
Alchemical: Nifty!
Amorphion: Awesome. It's like... I don't know, some sort of transforming robot. :smalltongue:
Artillery: Seems less powerful than a lot of the other materials, fairly situational. But good.
Ash: Heh, that's a lot of fun!
Assembly: AWESOME. That sounds like a really fun Half-Golem to play.
Battleglory: Nice, that's really cool.
Birthday Cake: Seems like you want to have some more candles than that, or give them more fast healing. Because as is, it seems like you're taping on some pretty serious conditions for fast healing which is no greater than that which other monster classes grant. Otherwise, funny and cool.
Blood: VAMPIRE ROBOTS?! That's really cool.
Brain: I feel like being half made of brain should give you an intelligence boost... I mean, if you're boosting strength with other materials, why not?
Brass: A little bit underpowered, but otherwise okay.
Butterscotch Pudding: Haha. I want to play one of these now.
Cadaver Collector: That's really fun. I like it.
Caltrop: Seems like the cadaver collector, only more powerful. Now that I've seen this one, it seems like you might want to give cadaver a little bit more power? But leaving caltrops behind is pretty awesome.
Calzone: Fun!
Carver: I like it.
Chain: That's a nice one.
Chocolate: Looks good to me.
Clay: It looks fun and balanced, but what does moving fast have to do with clay?
Coral: Cool one.
Demonflesh: Nice choice for an evil half golem.
Dragonflesh: Can we get a little bit greater range on that blindsense? Maybe 10 per 3 HD instead? Otherwise, nice.
Fang: That's cool.
Fewmet: On the powerful side, but fun.
Flesh: That's really neat.
Force: UNSTOPPABLE! I like it.
Gear: Ooh, I love it!
Gloom: Like it.
Gravedirt: Skeleton of ANY SIZE? You might want to specify a little, some people will read that as, "I summon a colossal ++++++++++ human skeleton."
Hangman: Like it.
Hellfire: I like it.
Homunculus: I love it.
Ice: I want some more of it. (couldn't resist.)
Inevitable: That's one of the cooler ones.
Inquisition: Fun to play with.
Iron: That's good.
Junk: Awesome.
Juggernaught: There's no GH in juggernaut. Basically like the other one, but still fun.
Magmacore: Fun!
Mindstrike: Cool one.
Mud: That's neat.
Mithral: Seems balanced and cool to me.
Nimblewright: Yeah, I like it. I don't see any problems.
Outer: Powerful, again, but fun.
Peanut Butter: Hahahaha. Funny, and seems balanced.
Perfector: I think it works well.
Pinata: That's a really cool effect. Seems fine to me.
Plague: Neat one.
Prismatic: Okay, that works. Seems not quite flashy enough for prismatic, but it's good.
Replicant: That's cool.
Rubber Chicken: Another fun one. I like it.
Sand: Looks fine to me.
Sentinel of Mithardir: Looks fun.
Shacklelock: Looks balanced and cool.
Shadesteel: Nice for rogue half golems.
Shield-Guardian: Fits with the flavor of the original golem well. I like it.
Siege: I love it. That's a cool one.
Skywatcher: Not very powerful compared to some of the others, but still good.
Split Rail: Neat one.
Stained Glass: Looks good to me.
Stone: Good!
Tangled Seasonal Lights: Fun, that's well done. I'd play one.
Tombstone: Creepy. Cool.
Trainer: I like it a lot. I don't see any balance issues.
Valorhammer: It works well, just like the other alignment golems.
Warforged: Half-warforged? Neat idea!
Web: Fun spider golem.
Woodwrath: Can't say I'm a massive fan of the flavor, but the ability is super fun and seems balanced.
Worker: Yeah, that's good.


Okay, this is... really killer to try and critique. And I'm not even going into great detail on most of the construction materials. Can't imagine how long you must have worked on this. I'll get to the rest of the stuff later.

[Betropper]

Made a few changes to the Gibbering Mouther.

[Hyudra]

Gargoyle

Monster image should be unspoilered. It's one of the key ways we have of letting people skimming the thread know that there's a monster class there.
I'd recommend changing the repeated, different cases of chiseled path to have different names, to reduce confusion & make for tidier character sheets.
Natural attacks; need to note whether they gain strength bonus to damage. (2x, 1.5, strength mod or ½ str mod).
Chiseled Path, Offense, Lesser:
The whole 'see the rogue class' for details is kind of a bother, and a bit of a shortcut. It's not bad, per se, but it causes a lot of hassle for a player who looks up the monster class for ability details & then is redirected to look elsewhere. Consider a copy-paste of the sneak attack rules inside a spoiler.
Chiseled Path, Defense:
Tough Skin is a little confusing to someone not familiar with the conversion of multiple natural armor. Clarify?
Rather than hardness (which is perplexing), how about just DR?
The bonus of runecarved body really, really needs to be toned down. A +10 bonus at level 20 will make you pass pretty much every save.
Freeze: I'm wondering how useful this would be. I mean, any foe with an intelligence higher than 6 is going to know the statue is probably a real gargoyle, especially if it appears in a forest, mountain, open plain, etc.
Stone Cold Metabolism:
As capstone abilities go, it's fairly narrow in application. What happens to conditions (bleeding, buffs, penalties, curses, shaken, stunned, poisoned, diseased?) on the gargoyle after the state is entered/exited?

[Zemro]

Thorn:
1) The first thing I noticed was the natural armor. Being equal to it CON modifier puts the Thorn on par with a lot of other, much 'tougher' classes. Admittedly, that's probably just me being silly, but it seems a little much for a class that can get armor as easily as any halfling.

Well, the original monster had a fairly nice natural armour, but otherwise I don't see it getting ridiculous at present. A ranged Thorn will be using Dex and Wis for attacks and abilities and Con for health. It probably won't be dumping Int for skills, and probably won't go for a negative strength modifier to take advantage of a composite longbow (Slings also apply the strength penalty to damage). In melee he'd be looking at the same, but strength might receive a few more points. The racial bonuses to Dex and Wis do help, but I figure he's got enough other areas to invest in, so it's unlikely for Con to natural armour to get ridiculous.


2) Misspelling of "lethal" in the Weapon of Thorns ability. Otherwise, this ability seems cool, and ensures that no Thorn should ever be without a proper weapon. My only real problem is that you never state how many times per day you can use the 4th level magical enhancement part of it. Or do you just get it once per encounter? That seems to be what it implies, though it seems like a little much to me. Maybe 1/2HD /day, minimum 1?

I'll probably clarify, but it's meant to be turned on or off as necessary, with a maximum number of rounds equal to 2*Wis Mod per encounter. That might be a bit long, now that I think about it, since that may last all encounter come higher levels, which is not the intent. I'll see about scaling that back a bit.


5) Subduing strike is cool, and works well with a bunch of stealth classes. However, you might want to note how it works with other sneak attack style abilities, like Sudden Strike and Skirmish.

Well, you can't trade advancement, but while I can clarify is doesn't seem too complicated. You can sudden strike and/or skirmish at the same time as subduing strike, but you'll have to meet all the requirements. Same with stacking them between each other, so you'd have be be striking non-lethally and have moved 10ft to subdue and skirmish, for example.


7) Weapon of Barbs is awesome. Getting Dex to damage really bumps up your damage output(especially after getting +4 Dex with the class), and it gives more fun combat options. The only thing I have against it is in the melee option. When you refer to the weapon's 'enhancement bonus' when deciding how much natural armor you strip away, is that its straight enhancement bonus, or the total enhancement to the weapon? Does a +1 Vorpal sword take 1 point of natural armor, or 6?

Well, terminology from the DMG tell me that the +5 from Vorpal isn't an enhancement bonus, they're special ability bonus equivalents. That weapon would have an enhancement bonus of +1 and a modified bonus of +6 for pricing purposes. I'll clarify though, just in case.


Overall, I like the sneaky warrior feel of this class, and the non-lethal options make it an excellent addition to any fae court. Good job.

Thanks, hopefully the additional clarifications will bring the class closer to receiving nominations as I think I'm getting close to the maximum level of polish I can do without completely changing things.

[Kobold-Bard]

Added a couple of abilities to the Lammasu & G. Protector (part way down p. 13).

- Gatekeeper is based on what Wikipedia tells me is part of the irl Lammasu's mythology.
- Healing Hands is the Healer classes Lvl 1 ability, given because they can get a Lammasu as an animal companion.
- Added a version of Turn Undead to Shining Light (specifying it can't power Divine Feats etc.).

- White Light is coz, y'know, they're shiny.

So what happens now, I have to wait for people to nominate it? What if everyone thinks they're a bit meh and no one ever does?

[Mystic Muse]

So what happens now, I have to wait for people to nominate it? What if everyone thinks they're a bit meh and no one ever does?

Then they aren't doing their jobs and telling you ways to make it less meh.

[Zemro]

Alright, time for me to roll out some more comments.


Maug

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+0| Construct Body,Pulverize,+1Str
2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+0|Graft,+1Str
3rd|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+1|Rapid Repair,Growth +1str
[/table]
HD=D10

Skills 2+int modifier(x4 at first lv)
Class skills Craft,Intimidate,Knowledge(architecture andengineering),Listen,Profession (siege engineer and soldier),Spot, Survival

Some formatting might be nice of the skills to improve readability. I think the standard format does something like this:

Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Siege Engineer) (Wis), Profession (Soldier) (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

Proficiencies: A maug gains proficiency with all armor,all sheild(including tower shields) simple and martial weapons

Just another wording suggestion, to keep the same sort of format official classes use:

Maugs are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armour (heavy, medium and light) and shields (including tower shields)

Construct Body :The Maug loses all previous racial modifiers and receives the Construct type (which grants darkvision 60'), medium size, 40 ft. land speed, and 2 natural slam attacks dealing 1d8+strength modifier damage. A maug is able to wear armor.
No Constitution score.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, ability damage, fatigue or exhaustion, or energy drain.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed
Never being alive to begin with, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. It can only be revived by a wish, limited wish, miracle, or by reconstructing the Maug's body (requiring 10000 gp worth of specially treated alloys- or the golem's previous body, and a DC 18 Stonecrafting check) and then a reincarnate spell, which will always put the Maug's soul into the new effigy.
Constructs does not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Just some more formatting suggestions, I feel the class looks better with a tighter list.

A maug also gains natural armor equal to it’s strength modifier

The maugs also get a +4 bonus to Craft (stonemasonry) and Knowledge (architecture and engineering) checks.

The Maug also gains 1 HP per HD. For every 5 HD that it has the bonus increase by 1.

Each of these sentences all begin the same way, maybe look into varying or linking them together in some way. It just sounds weird to say they get something and then have a bunch of other points right after it on seperate lines going 'also this' and 'also this' and 'also this.'

The HP bonus ability could be something like: "gains a bonus +1HP per HD, this bonuses increases by +1 for every 5HD

Pulverize:As a free action, 1 time per HD per day, A maug is able to overcome any DR and hardness of an object or creature with all it's attack for 1 round.

I'd suggest some rewording here as well, it gets the point across but sounds a little awkward.

Rapid Repair: A Maug gains fast healing equal to half his HD.

Growth: A muag grows to large size.

Grafts:Grafts are upgrades for the maug, He may choose one graft at level 2.

Since there's no options for obtaining more grafts, why not just say that upon reaching level two they gain a graft. Also since this ability comes before Rapid Repair and Growth, it should be placed above them in the class description.

Having the main ability description and then references a table below everything else would be fine, but might as well have everything in one place since you've got it spoilered.

Shoving arm
The shoving arm is attached to the waist of a maug. This arm allows the maug to make a bull rushed attack with no attack of oppertunity each round.It also gives a bonus to bull rush attemps equal to the maug's HD.

Since it's essentially the same, why not simply grant Improved Bull Rush as a bonus feat except the bonus to opposed strength checks equals the Maug's HD.

Shudder plate
A maug with a shudder plate gains the tremorsense ability with a range of 5ft/2HD.The shudder plate takes no item slot and it still permits the wear of armor.

Seems straightforward, might want to mention where it's attached or what it looks like.

Wrist Razors:
Various retractable spikes, blades and appendages spring out from around and on the maug's hand: its slam attacks now deal piercing and slashing.The damage of the maug's slam also increase by one step.

I'd reverse the order, note that it's damage die increases one step and then the damage types. It also might be worth it to have the option of deal bludgeoning, piercing or slashing, just to add versatility.

Long Legs:
The Maug gains Run as a bonus feat, gets a bonus to jump checks equal to 1/2 his HD, and gains a +10' bonus to move speed.

Straightforward, does this change their height any?

Stone Spiliter
With the stone spilter graft a maug is now able to fire bullets that damage 1d6 (for a medium sized maug) with a critical of 19/20X2. A maug is able to fire 1 bullet,as a free action,a round.It can hold up to 50 sling bullets.This graft reloads automaticly.

Some clarification would be nice, also maybe 'spitter'? What's the action to load sling bullets into the weapon? What's the type of damage of the projectile? Can the spitter be enchanted? Maybe have the option to use it for normal attacks as well?

Grappling Hook:
The Maug gains a chain & hook attached to his palm and spooled in his arm, which he can launch up to a distance of 30 feet plus 5 per HD, as a ranged touch attack. If successful, the Maug makes a grapple check as if he had the improved grapple feat. If successful, the foe is dragged into the Maug's square or the Maug is dragged to the foe's square (Maug's choice), and the grapple goes on as normal.
An additional application of this upgrade allows the Maug to deal an additional 1d8+strength modifier (or 2d6+str if large sized) constriction damage each turn of the grapple.

It might be simpler saying that once per round (or however long, considering for reload time) it can initiate a grapple with a ranged touch attack against a creature within 30ft +5ft/HD. It should probably require an opposed strength check to pull a creature into your square, maybe you getting pulled into theirs on a failure?

There's currently no options for additional grafts, so the second portion of the ability makes no sense if they only gain one graft. Constriction usually works to deal extra damage on a successful grapple check, so maybe clarify that as well.

A fairly solid class overall, just some finesse and polish remaining I think.

I'll see about putting up another couple later this afternoon or this evening.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Monster image should be unspoilered. It's one of the key ways we have of letting people skimming the thread know that there's a monster class there.
I'd recommend changing the repeated, different cases of chiseled path to have different names, to reduce confusion & make for tidier character sheets.
Natural attacks; need to note whether they gain strength bonus to damage. (2x, 1.5, strength mod or ½ str mod).
Chiseled Path, Offense, Lesser:
The whole 'see the rogue class' for details is kind of a bother, and a bit of a shortcut. It's not bad, per se, but it causes a lot of hassle for a player who looks up the monster class for ability details & then is redirected to look elsewhere. Consider a copy-paste of the sneak attack rules inside a spoiler.
Chiseled Path, Defense:
Tough Skin is a little confusing to someone not familiar with the conversion of multiple natural armor. Clarify?
Rather than hardness (which is perplexing), how about just DR?
The bonus of runecarved body really, really needs to be toned down. A +10 bonus at level 20 will make you pass pretty much every save.
Freeze: I'm wondering how useful this would be. I mean, any foe with an intelligence higher than 6 is going to know the statue is probably a real gargoyle, especially if it appears in a forest, mountain, open plain, etc.
Stone Cold Metabolism:
As capstone abilities go, it's fairly narrow in application. What happens to conditions (bleeding, buffs, penalties, curses, shaken, stunned, poisoned, diseased?) on the gargoyle after the state is entered/exited?

1. Done, though I need a new name for Carved Mobility.

2. Primary natural attacks get 1.5X, secondary natural attacks get .5X, as normal (IIRC, if not I'll add a note, and may do that later anyway).

3. Copy-pasted sneak attack details into Ambush Hunter, sorry about that.

4. Done.

5. Hardness is almost effectively the same, but allows use in Stone Cold Metabolism.

6. Changed it to 1/3 HD, will lower to 1/4 if that's still too good. Or I could make it an enhancement bonus, so it won't stack with Cloak of Resistance, in which case I'll probably keep it as it is (though I might change it back).

7. Added a feign death capability and a note suggesting it is used for that often. Not all statues of gargoyles are going to be Gargoyles. It might be useful for guarding a large building with lots of inanimate, statue gargoyles, like a church of Kord (which is still going to want minor evil spirits out, but won't put up with living, usually CE Gargoyles). A bit contrived, but I've added a Con bonus to give the level a little more 'oomph'.

8. I've added some clarifications, but until I've finished them you're advised to use your common sense. You won't bleed, for example, because you are essentially a block of stone. Also, Statuesque Perfection (formerly Chiseled Path (Perfection) is supposed to be the capstone, Stone Cold is supposed to be a Freeze upgrade, sorry if that wasn't clear. I could make Statuesque two abilities from the list, which it was briefly during writing before I decided it was too much for level 4 and lowered it to one before posting.

Thanks for the help, I really needed it.

[Hyudra]

2. Primary natural attacks get 1.5X, secondary natural attacks get .5X, as normal (IIRC, if not I'll add a note, and may do that later anyway).

Not always the standard, as far as I've seen in this thread. When in doubt, provide the information to the player.


3. Copy-pasted sneak attack details into Ambush Hunter, sorry about that.

No worries. It's not a mandatory thing, and you could get away without doing it, but it's nice for your players' sakes to provide the info.


5. Hardness is almost effectively the same, but allows use in Stone Cold Metabolism.

I'd just make it DR, and have it translate to hardness in that form. Save people the confusion.


6. Changed it to 1/3 HD, will lower to 1/4 if that's still too good. Or I could make it an enhancement bonus, so it won't stack with Cloak of Resistance, in which case I'll probably keep it as it is (though I might change it back).

That's still too good. If anything, tie it to a stat (like Hexblades do, IIRC).


7. Added a feign death capability and a note suggesting it is used for that often. Not all statues of gargoyles are going to be Gargoyles. It might be useful for guarding a large building with lots of inanimate, statue gargoyles, like a church of Kord (which is still going to want minor evil spirits out, but won't put up with living, usually CE Gargoyles). A bit contrived, but I've added a Con bonus to give the level a little more 'oomph'.

The specific terrain viability is fine with a monster, but sucks for a PC who is going to be in that specific environment (a building with gargoyles) maybe 5% of the time.


8. I've added some clarifications, but until I've finished them you're advised to use your common sense. You won't bleed, for example, because you are essentially a block of stone. Also, Statuesque Perfection (formerly Chiseled Path (Perfection) is supposed to be the capstone, Stone Cold is supposed to be a Freeze upgrade, sorry if that wasn't clear. I could make Statuesque two abilities from the list, which it was briefly during writing before I decided it was too much for level 4 and lowered it to one before posting.

Good stuff. Not a bad stab at gargoyle, though I think it perhaps needs more things in its toolbox as far as stuff it can do in combat (it can hide, but that doesn't work too well, it can turn to stone, but that's awkward actionwise and doesn't do much to help).

[Chambers]

Dwarf Ancestor
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98682.jpg
4th version.


[Original Post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9578763&postcount=539)][2nd Version. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9952048&postcount=380)][3rd Version - Edited]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Class Skills: The dwarf ancestor's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: History (Int), Knowledge: The Planes (Int), Listen (Wis), & Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int mod) x4.
Skill Points at each additional level: 4+ Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special Ability
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Ancestor Body, Ancestral Spirit +1, Ancestral Knowledge, +1 Str
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Power Attack, Dwarven Warcraft, +1 Con
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Dwarven Hammer, Hardening, +1 Str
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Moderate Fortification, Ancestral Spirit +2, +1 Con
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Stone Hammer, Blink Out, Growth, +1 Str,
6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Stone Warcraft, Improved Hardening, +1 Con
[/table]


Ancestor Body: At 1st level the dwarf ancestor loses all other racial traits and becomes an outsider with the native subtype. The dwarf ancestor has the following characteristics:

Darkvision 60ft
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Not proficient with any type of armor or shields.
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items such as heroes' feats and potions. Spellcasters must still rest for 8 hours before regaining spells for the day.
Natural Armor bonus equal to Constitution modifier
Damage Reduction (Adamantine) equal to Half Hit Die (minimum DR 1/Adamantine).
Living Plate
Light Fortification
Dwarven Heritage


Living Plate: The Dwarf Ancestor's body is actually a form of living stone that provides a +4 armor bonus and resembles full plate. This living plate is not natural armor and does not stack with other effects that give an armor bonus (other than natural armor). The living plate occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a dwarf ancestor cannot wear armor or magic robes. Dwarf ancestors can be enchanted just as armor can, though the ancestor dwarf must be present for the entire time it takes to enchant him.

Living plate also provides an dwarf ancestor with a 5% arcane spell failure chance, though any class ability that allows an ancestor dwarf to ignore the arcane spell failure chance for light armor lets him ignore this penalty as well.

Light Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a dwarf ancestor, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Dwarven Heritage (Ex): The dwarf ancestor counts as a dwarf for the purposes of qualifying for feats and prestige classes, as well as using dwarf only magic items.

Ancestral Spirit (Su): At 1st level the dwarf ancestor gains the ancestral spirit ability. Any ally within 30ft of the dwarf ancestor gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 every 4 character levels. The dwarf ancestor does not receive this bonus.

Ancestral Knowledge (Ex): As 1st level the dwarf ancestor gains ancestral knowledge. Levels in dwarven ancestor count as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats that require a minimum number of fighter levels.

Power Attack (Ex): At 2nd level the dwarf ancestor gains Power Attack as a bonus feat.

Dwarven Warcraft (Ex): At 2nd level The dwarven ancestor learns the fighting technique of the heroic dwarven defenders. The dwarf ancestor may move through non-magical difficult terrain (such as rubble, undergrowth, steep slopes, stairs, or snow) at normal speed and without suffering any other impairments. In addition the dwarf ancestor gains a +8 bonus on attempts to resist bull rushes and a +4 bonus on grapple checks to resist a grapple attempt if that grapple would move him into another square.

Dwarven Hammer (Ex): At 3rd level the dwarf ancestor's link to the material plane grows stronger, enhancing his body and increasing his sturdiness. Whenever a dwarf ancestor is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the dwarf ancestor is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A dwarf ancestor is also considered to be one size larger when determing when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A dwarf ancestor can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

Hardening (Ex): At 3rd level the armor bonus provided by the dwarf ancestors living plate increases to +6.

Moderate Fortification (Ex): At 4th level the dwarf ancestor gains moderate fortification. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a dwarf ancestor, there is a 75% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.

Stone Hammer (Su): At 5th level the dwarf ancestor gains the ability to strike the ground with his weapon as a standard action causing a localized earthquake. All enemies standing on the ground within 20ft of the dwarf ancestor must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the dwarf ancestor's HD + the dwarf ancestors Strength modifier) or fall prone and take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage. Enemies that make their Reflex negate both falling prone and the damage.

The damage increases by +1d4 every 2 HD the dwarf ancestor has.

Blink Out (Su): A dwarf ancestor of at least 5th level may once per encounter as a free action become incorpreal until the beginning of his next turn. Activating this ability is a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Growth (Ex): At 5th level the dwarf ancestor connection between the spiritual and material realms is strengthed again and he increases in size to Large (tall). This ability stacks with the effect of Dwarven Hammer and the dwarf ancestor is now treated as Huge for the purposes of size modifiers, spell attacks based on size, and wielding weapons. He retains the reach of a Large creature.

Stone Warcraft (Ex): At 6th level the dwarf ancestor learns the stone warcraft ability. The dwarf ancestor reaches out to the earth and stone beneath him, buckling the ground and rippling the dirt. While you are standing on the ground, any opponent that begins its turn in your threatened area treats all the squares that you threaten as difficult terrain.

Improved Hardening (Ex): At 6th level the armor bonus provided by the dwarf ancestors living plate increases to +8.

Tome of Battle Adaptation

If your campaign is using the Tome of Battle make the following changes to the Dwarf Ancestor.

Ancestral Knowledge (Ex): Levels in dwarven ancestor are counted as full initiator levels when used to determine the initiator level of a multiclass dwarven ancestor/initiating class (crusader, swordsage, warblade). Most initiating dwarven ancestors are Crusaders.
Dwarven Warcraft, Dwarven Hammer, Stone Warcraft, & Stone Hammer all count as Stone Dragon maneuvers for the purposes of qualifying for higher level manuevers that require a certain number of manuevers known from that discipline.

Comments/Changelog

Updated: 1/1/2011

Ancestral Spirit now excludes the dwarf ancestor.
Dwarven Hammer is now Powerful Build.
Stone Hammer is now an area of effect attack that simulates a small earthquake. It scales in damage and effects with HD.

I clarified the wording on the Adaptation as I think my intent was unclear.

Updated: 12/14/2010

Changed the Dwarven/Stone Warcraft/Hammer abilities. As before they were basically just copies of the ToB maneuvers/stances Bonecrusher, Iron Guards Glare, & Thicket of Blades. Now they let the dwarf ancestor ignore difficult terrain and give him a focus for his combat abilities - bull rush. He is better at resisting them and better at making them. At 5th level the character qualifies for the Knockback feat so he can make bull rushes with power attacks.

So instead of getting a flat damage boost he's got some tactical options. Knockback & Shock Trooper are both prime choices.

Regarding Dungeoncrasher: The race/class is a good setup for it but the character would still need to take fighter levels because dungeoncrasher is about sacrificing fighter bonus feats, not taking a feat that requires a specific amount of fighter levels.

2 levels of Fighter to grab the first bit of Dungeoncrasher would be ECL 8. Normally that's when a Fighter 8 would already have the advanced version of dungeoncrasher, but the dwarf ancestor has more defenses than that Fighter would have, so it's a trade off.

With the drop of the damage bonus attacks the +3 strength bonus and full bab shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Updated: 12/12/2010

I removed Cleave & Supreme Cleave and reduced the ability bonuses to +3 Str, +3 Con, staggered out over the levels. I increased the fortification to moderate and made Ancestral Spirit scale with character levels.

Added in two abilities that mimic two Devoted Spirit stances and two abilites that mimic two Stone Dragon maneuvers.

In a ToB campaign these abilities help with a multiclassed dwarven ancestor. In a regular game the dwarven ancestor instead uses his levels in dwaren ancestor to qualify for fighter feats.

The DA also can use dwarf only magic items and can take dwarf only feats and prestige classes.

Overall the class now has things it can do in combat - technically. It gets a basic attack that does better damage. It's passive abilities help out in combat, by focusing the enemies attacks on itself and having enemies provoke AoO's. Moderate Fortification is also a big boost for combat staying power.


Original Comments:
I took a page from the Warforged and gave the dwarf ancestor a version of composite plating that can be enchanted. The armor bonus increases as the dwarf ancestor gains levels until at level 6 the living plate grants a +8 armor bonus.

The dwarf ancestor's natural armor gets reduced significantly to balance this, thereby avoiding the trap of having a really high natural armor bonus but not being able to wear armor.

Blink Out is modified to once per encounter and Ancestral Spirit is changed to all allies (not just dwarves).

Supreme Cleave helps out with an otherwise lack-luster combat option.

Overall the dwarf ancestor is a simple tank, with a high armor class and good damage reduction. It doesn't come with advanced combat tactics built in but is instead a good chassis for melee characters.

Today's Comments


Responding to some of Hyudra's comments (all quotes are hers).


Either give it full BAB and take away the strength/aura bonus or take away the full BAB. If you can't do either in good conscience because it lacks genuinely desirable combat options, then that's just pointing to a clear problem in the design.

That's false. There is a third option and it's that I disagree with the bruisers don't get full BAB policy as I've already explained.


Dwarven hammer grants a feat, but still counts as a maneuver in the tome of battle adaptation box.

I could understand that with the class feature that grants the bull rushes on certain attacks, perhaps, but the class feature that lets you know Improved Bull Rush? It's odd for that to somehow count against your maneuvers.

It seems like you were interpreting the adaptations to mean that when you take a level in a ToB class the adaptation abilities would replace whatever maneuvers you would normally know from the Tob level. That is not the case. The adaptations sole purpose is to allow you to qualify for higher level manuevers that require a certain number of manuevers known from that discipline.

After rereading the exact text of what I wrote I can see how that interpretation is possible. I'll reword it so it's clearer.


Right, but it's still more boring, passive and less involved than what you had before, which was a great ability to define the Dwarf Ancestor's role as a tank. Immunity to difficult terrain is just kind of plain. It has, much as you stated in the quoted text here, more or less been done several times before.

The reason I pointed to the other classes was to emphasize that it's an ability that melee classes need, regardless of whether you consider it boring.

[Hyudra]

Can we avoid constantly reposting the same class, Chambers? That's at least twice now you've done so. It would make the thread a tad messy if everyone did it.


Featured Creature!
The Bleakborn

In terms of general formatting, it would make the entry more readable if ability names were bolded or underlined.
Icy Touch - I don't know that it scales fast enough.
Fire Lover - not terribly clear as far as the "For every 3 point of fire damage an attack deals, the Bleakborn is instead healed 1 point of damage, gaining any excess as temporary hit points." - If an attack deals 5 damage, it deals 5, of which 3 become 1 point of healing and then the remainder 2, for 1 damage?
I'd clarify, or possibly state the Bleakborn is immune to fire, but damage it would take is turned to healing instead.
I'm wondering if there's ways to abuse this, by setting oneself on fire on a near-permanent basis. The natural extinguishing helps, but I have nagging doubts about the possibility of some permanent source of magical flame.
Turn Resistance really doesn't matter, because turn undead drops off in effectiveness to a severe extent, at later levels (past level 12, you're not going to make many/any turn attempts without ridiculous optimization).
Reading Heat Siphon, I'm concerned about the extra book-keeping. Fire damage becomes healing, which means a number of extra calculations and notations on one's character sheet mid-combat.
Heat Draining Aura:
The fact that this is severely limited by the presence of teammates is a problem. Dark Knight pal is standing next to you, so you're forced to effectively turn the ability off. Is not conducive to teamwork. Consider allowing one to exclude teammates instead?
I don't like automatic damage, especially to the range and/or extent we're talking about here.
Greater Icy Touch - You want 'fourth', not forth.
Ice Ward has awkwardly slow progression. 5 DR at 20th is nothing to write home about.
Undying chill is... finnicky. It doesn't stipulate that the effect ends, so I don't know that you'd ever die, provided your will save was properly supported.
Frost Nova doesn't do it for me, really. A bunch of references to other abilities that forces a lot of constant checking over of the creature entry (what heat siphon does & how much, accurate dexterity damage), making it kind of unintuitive for regular play.

I mean no offense when I say this, but I don't know why this creature was featured. It doesn't feel within arm's length of being done, and the author isn't active in the thread, anyways. A lot of stuff needs a fair bit of tweaking here.

[Chambers]

Can we avoid constantly reposting the same class, Chambers? That's at least twice now you've done so. It would make the thread a tad messy if everyone did it.

Okay. I was reposting it because there were changes made to it. Didn't know we weren't supposed to do that.

[Kajhera]

Okay. I was reposting it because there were changes made to it. Didn't know we weren't supposed to do that.

'Tis why they get linked to on the first page, so we don't have to. :smallsmile:

[Zemro]

A note on the Bleakborn that I just noticed, I never actually nominated the class yet. I said I would consider nominating the class after all the bits involving fire damage got cleaned up, and posed a question involving the interaction against creatures such as fire elementals.

[Zeofar]

Tumble is the skill used to avoid falling damage.:smallconfused:


Huh... Right. I guess I've been misreading the falling damage rules.

[Rumel]

Agreed, a link is a good way to show your work with little space cluttered... Can we maybe add that to the thread rules (if not already added, I'm blind)?

[Kajhera]

Now that I've looked over the Purple Worm properly, I would like to nominate it. There is only one thing I noticed: 'Class Skill Skills' should be reduced to 'Class Skills', but that's formatting rather than mechanics.

[Niezck]

Any more votey nominatey things for the Phrenic Creature?

[Hyudra]

Now that I've looked over the Purple Worm properly, I would like to nominate it. There is only one thing I noticed: 'Class Skill Skills' should be reduced to 'Class Skills', but that's formatting rather than mechanics.

Good catch, there, Kaj. Fixed. Funny how the human brain is so bad at detecting repeat words.

Niezck:

I initially skipped over the Phrenic creature because I honestly don't ever use Psionics in my campaigns (I use the SLA variants for psionic creatures, tbh.), and feared I wouldn't be able to offer you a good review. Still, in the interest of getting you a few steps closer to done, here's my best shot at it:


Phrenic Creature

Prerequisites:
Ritual cost? Length? Can it be performed solo or does it require the assistance of a psion or psionic creature?
Be precise about 'Special' - Something like, "In a single encounter, brought from above half health to -5 or less hitpoints and survived without assistance."
I don't know why the creature name is blue, throughout the entry. It's distracting and meaningless.
Table needs to be polished. Shorten table entries like "Base Attack Bonus" to take multiple lines or use shorthand (such as "BAB"), ditto for saves.
Phrenic Powers:
"These powers are useable 1/X/day, where X is their highest available level. " is awkwardly worded, and I can't really interpret how it might work.
Spelling error: Minmum.
I'm afraid I can't comment on the rate of power acquisition. It seems fair, if I translate it roughly to equivalent level spells. That said, I think it might be a little too easy to swap out your known skills. Perhaps, every time you wake up from 6 hours of sleep (Which, to me, makes more sense in line with a creature using psionics) you can change one known power for another?
Psionic Release:
Isn't that fantastic, powerwise. Figure the standard for a breath weapon is 1d6 per level and that offers an AoE, and cools down every 1d4 rounds.
Consider bumping up to 1d6 per level?