How does the reserve feat work? [3.5]

[randomhero00]

I've read it a couple times and still get confused. Does it just let you use up another spell for a different one? Or do you actually get to use that spell at will? And can it be linked/used with two spells then?

Also, I didn't actually see a feat called "reserve feat" just a section explaining how they work. I don't get it.

[Boci]

Reserve feats give you an at will supernatural ability that generally has a numberical affects based of the highest spell of a certain type you have prepared/s spell slot for.

[JaronK]

You get to use it at will, as long as you still have the appropriate spell type unused.

JaronK

[Aron Times]

They're basically the beta version of 4e's at-will powers.

[Xefas]

Also, I didn't actually see a feat called "reserve feat" just a section explaining how they work. I don't get it.

A "reserve feat" is a kind of feat, not a feat in and of itself.

A given reserve feat typically has three parts:
a) Type of spell it works with
b) Level of spell that must be prepared but not cast that is of the type specified in 'A'
c) The effect you can use while the requirements of 'B' are satisfied.

So, there might be a feat called Fiery Burst that:
a) Works with spells with the [Fire] subtype
b) May only be used while you have a [Fire] spell of 3rd level or higher prepared but not cast.
c) Allows you to deal fire damage in a small radius as a standard action

[randomhero00]

A "reserve feat" is a kind of feat, not a feat in and of itself.

A given reserve feat typically has three parts:
a) Type of spell it works with
b) Level of spell that must be prepared but not cast that is of the type specified in 'A'
c) The effect you can use while the requirements of 'B' are satisfied.

So, there might be a feat called Fiery Burst that:
a) Works with spells with the [Fire] subtype
b) May only be used while you have a [Fire] spell of 3rd level or higher prepared but not cast.
c) Allows you to deal fire damage in a small radius as a standard action

So you make up your own feat with those requirements basically?

[Boci]

So you make up your own feat with those requirements basically?

No there are quite a few listed, but if you wanted to homebrew some more, yes that would be the format to follow.

[arguskos]

No there are quite a few listed, but if you wanted to homebrew some more, yes that would be the format to follow.
If you'd like to see some homebrewed ones, take a gander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149358). :smallcool:

[randomhero00]

Oh, I see them now. They all kind of suck for mid to high level play. Or am I missing something?

[Glimbur]

Oh, I see them now. They all kind of suck for mid to high level play. Or am I missing something?

You're right. They're not as good as a real spell for your action, and they cost a feat. On the plus side, they can go all day assuming you keep a spell back.

[HunterOfJello]

Most of the Reserve Feats appear in Complete Mage and Complete Champion.

A popular one to grab is Fiery Burst which allows you to do a 5ft burst of fire at-will. It only does as much damage as the highest available fire spell that you can cast, but it can be handy in a pinch or when you don't want to waste spells to kill something.

If you're a level 5 wizard with Fiery Burst you can attack enemies with 3d6 fire damage. The attack has 'reflex half', but ignores Spell Resistance, is a Spell-like ability (so it can be used without moving or making noise) and doesn't require a ranged attack.

Many wizards may not want to spend a feat on one of the reserve feats like Fiery Burst, but a wizard doesn't want to use up one of their prepared spells, it's better than using a Wand of Magic Missile or a Crossbow.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The general idea was to give casters a bit more staying power in low-level/frequent encounter situations. The damage dealing reserve feats do a little more than half your level in d6's as long as you don't use your highest level spell, provided that your highest level spell is of the type that matches your reserve feat. They really are very poor choices for partial casters. The buff/debuff reserve feats are much milder than any buff/debuff spells that are available at the same level, but you can use them for as many foes/encounters as you face in a day.

[Psyren]

The idea is that - hey, pulling out the crossbow is no fun and doesn't feel magical at all - So the wizard can do other stuff instead.

[AustontheGreat1]

Oh, I see them now. They all kind of suck for mid to high level play. Or am I missing something?

Not really, they all sort of scale with your level, and they are at will so they can't be too good. Their just meant to allow mages to do stuff without expending spell slots. I personally love them.

A neat trick though is to use Precocious Apprentice to get a second level spell. Then have a reserve feat which uses it on it. The one I typically use is fiery burst. Infinite 2d6 fireballs at first level is pretty good. Requires human though.

[big teej]

You're right. They're not as good as a real spell for your action, and they cost a feat. On the plus side, they can go all day assuming you keep a spell back.

wait wait wait wait wait wait
wait....

wait.

lemme make sure I'm understanding this correctly

as a .... we'll say 10th level sorcerer I can cast x spells, lets say 3 of them are fire spells.

as long as I don't cast ONE of them, I can use my reserve feat indefinitly? they wouldn't use up the spell?

or did I just completely misunderstand.

the likely alternative being "I can use the reserve feat three times, as I have 3 fire spells prepared"
(using the fire burst as the example)

[olentu]

wait wait wait wait wait wait
wait....

wait.

lemme make sure I'm understanding this correctly

as a .... we'll say 10th level sorcerer I can cast x spells, lets say 3 of them are fire spells.

as long as I don't cast ONE of them, I can use my reserve feat indefinitly? they wouldn't use up the spell?

or did I just completely misunderstand.

the likely alternative being "I can use the reserve feat three times, as I have 3 fire spells prepared"
(using the fire burst as the example)

Without limit should be the thing.

[Terazul]

Yup. As long as you keep one spell prepared/uncast, fire away as much as you want.

[Marnath]

wait wait wait wait wait wait
wait....

wait.

lemme make sure I'm understanding this correctly

as a .... we'll say 10th level sorcerer I can cast x spells, lets say 3 of them are fire spells.

as long as I don't cast ONE of them, I can use my reserve feat indefinitly? they wouldn't use up the spell?

or did I just completely misunderstand.

the likely alternative being "I can use the reserve feat three times, as I have 3 fire spells prepared"
(using the fire burst as the example)


Yeah, that one. If it used the spell up, it would be kind of pointless since it does probably less damage than the actual spell.:smallsmile:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Before you cry "omg teh brokenzz!" realize that at their best, reserve feats do only about as much damage as a rogues sneak attack, and they can only be used once per round unless you sink more resources into being able to quicken a SU ability.

[Grendus]

My personal favorite is Summon Elemental[Reserve]. Combine that with using your bonus languages or 8 skill points to learn Auran, Aquan, Terran, and Ignan and you have an incredible utility ability with a small amount of combat usefulness (elementals can flank, assist other, soak AoO's, even make passable bull rush and trip attempts, etc). The real beauty is doing things like using earth elementals to scout through walls or set off traps, or using water/fire elementals to extinguish/start fires. You have to be able to speak an elemental's language to command it (thus the languages), but it's probably one of the best utility feats in the game.

[Kumori]

My personal favorite is Summon Elemental[Reserve]. Combine that with using your bonus languages or 8 skill points to learn Auran, Aquan, Terran, and Ignan and you have an incredible utility ability with a small amount of combat usefulness (elementals can flank, assist other, soak AoO's, even make passable bull rush and trip attempts, etc). The real beauty is doing things like using earth elementals to scout through walls or set off traps, or using water/fire elementals to extinguish/start fires. You have to be able to speak an elemental's language to command it (thus the languages), but it's probably one of the best utility feats in the game.

I'm thinking up a Reserve feat sorc build and had completely overlooked this as being an option...

[sonofzeal]

Hmmm..... how would a Sorc/Wiz loaded to the hilt with Reserve Feats compare to an equivalent-level Warlock?

[Tvtyrant]

Which book is Reserve Feat in?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Which book is Reserve Feat in?

As has already been stated once in this thread, reserve feats (plural) are printed mostly in Complete Mage, and Complete Champion. There may be a few in other sources, but I don't remember.

[Xefas]

Hmmm..... how would a Sorc/Wiz loaded to the hilt with Reserve Feats compare to an equivalent-level Warlock?

Well, considering that, on off-days, he could still throw out Scrying, Teleport, Contact Other Plane, assorted Planar Bindings, and stuff like that (and those examples are only the core ones), I'd say he's probably ahead of the Warlock any way you slice it.

[Incanur]

Not all reserve feats require actions to use. Holy Warrior doesn't, for example.

[Marnath]

Hmmm..... how would a Sorc/Wiz loaded to the hilt with Reserve Feats compare to an equivalent-level Warlock?

Probably better, I'd think since they can still use every slot not dedicated to powering reserves on actual spells.

[Godskook]

Its worth noting that sorcerers make better reservists, since taking one feat ensures that you'll have maximum readiness with minimal impact on your spell-casting(Heighten spell, that is). All you have to do is learn *A* spell that can power the feats, and as long as you have at least 1 slot of your highest level available to cast, *ALL* your reserve feats are considered powered. Wizards have to work a *LOT* harder to have this little day-to-day impact.

[dobu]

I took Acidic Splatter for my Unseen Seer to have an at will attack to trigger my Sneak Attacks. It's quite useful, but there aren't any [acid] spells beyond level 6 or so though.
Still it does about 6d6 + 14d6 sneak attack damage. Quite ok actually for the casual at will damage. Not a must have, but still ok :-)

[kestrel404]

The Minor Shapeshift feat (requires Polymorph in reserve) is probably the best one, especially for a Gish build. It lets you get temp HP as a swift action.

[Runestar]

I took Acidic Splatter for my Unseen Seer to have an at will attack to trigger my Sneak Attacks. It's quite useful, but there aren't any [acid] spells beyond level 6 or so though.

Well, there's always heighten spell.


Its worth noting that sorcerers make better reservists, since taking one feat ensures that you'll have maximum readiness with minimal impact on your spell-casting(Heighten spell, that is).

I am not sure if this actually works. Or at least, I would require the sorc to actually know a spell of that level.

Though another benefit a sorc has is that he can use that 1 slot to power multiple reserve feats. Say he knows dragonshape, meteor swarm and summon monster 9. He can power 3 reserve feats with just 1 slot remaining, while a wizard has to keep 3 separate 9th lv spells prepared.:smallsmile:

[dobu]

Well, there's always heighten spell.


No way I'm burning a feat slot for 3d6 damage and 15 ft. range :-)

[Marnath]

Well, there's always heighten spell.



I am not sure if this actually works. Or at least, I would require the sorc to actually know a spell of that level.

Though another benefit a sorc has is that he can use that 1 slot to power multiple reserve feats. Say he knows dragonshape, meteor swarm and summon monster 9. He can power 3 reserve feats with just 1 slot remaining, while a wizard has to keep 3 separate 9th lv spells prepared.:smallsmile:

On the other hand, he can use some of the more situational reserve feats by dedicating a slot to it rather than a precious spell known.

*edit: does anyone know the actual RAW for powering a sorc's reserves with heighten?

[Thurbane]

Well, there's always heighten spell.
...and Energy Substitution.

[FMArthur]

On the other hand, he can use some of the more situational reserve feats by dedicating a slot to it rather than a precious spell known.

*edit: does anyone know the actual RAW for powering a sorc's reserves with heighten?

I think it's essentially "yes" to every question concerning that. Having access to Heighten spell should let you count as knowing a 5th level fire spell even if you only know Fireball.

[Fawsto]

Some melee Clerics that ended up with the War domain enjoy the benefits of the Holy Warrior reserve feat.

An extra +X on weapon damage rolls just from refraining to use the domain spell of the Xth level is very interesting.

I like reserve feats.

But yeah. Unlimited uses a day.

[Marnath]

I think it's essentially "yes" to every question concerning that. Having access to Heighten spell should let you count as knowing a 5th level fire spell even if you only know Fireball.

Awesome, so you can spend your higher level spells known on real spells instead of blasting spells. You can heighten cantrips right?

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

My wizard is currently in a time-sensitive dungeon crawl where we go through double digit number of encounters before resting. At first I thought my group was overestimating my little mini-fireball, but right now it's the most useful feat I have.

[Kylarra]

Awesome, so you can spend your higher level spells known on real spells instead of blasting spells. You can heighten cantrips right?Yeah, you can apply metamagic to cantrips.

[Marnath]

Yeah, you can apply metamagic to cantrips.

Finally, a use for electric jolt and acid splash. :smallsmile:

[Runestar]

Some melee Clerics that ended up with the War domain enjoy the benefits of the Holy Warrior reserve feat.

An extra +X on weapon damage rolls just from refraining to use the domain spell of the Xth level is very interesting.

I like reserve feats.

But yeah. Unlimited uses a day.
Yeah, +9 damage just for keeping your 9th lv domain spell in reserve. For a feat.

Fighters spend how many feats just to get a fraction of that benefit? :smallconfused:

One day, we really need to rework the feat selections of the monsters in the MM. Imagine a planetar or solar with one of these babies! :smallcool:

[Thurbane]

One day, we really need to rework the feat selections of the monsters in the MM. Imagine a planetar or solar with one of these babies! :smallcool:
No no no! All must have Alertness, and any remaining feats spent on Toughness! :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

No no no! All must have Alertness, and any remaining feats spent on Toughness! :smalltongue:

Are you mad? The PCs will have much too easy a time with them! No, no, we need to give them all Dodge first.

[The Glyphstone]

Are you mad? The PCs will have much too easy a time with them! No, no, we need to give them all Dodge first.

Wow, you're trying to set up a TPK, aren't you. All monsters should only get 1 instance of Toughness, and Dodge would make them harder to hurt. They should spend their feats on +2/+2 skill boosts and things like Skill Focus: Profession (Underwater Basket Weaving).

[Eisirt]

A neat trick though is to use Precocious Apprentice to get a second level spell. Then have a reserve feat which uses it on it. The one I typically use is fiery burst. Infinite 2d6 fireballs at first level is pretty good. Requires human though.

Not possible with Fiery Burst since it requires a lvl3 Fire spell to be used.
So minimal damage would be 3d6 and not possible at CLvl 1.

Could work for Acidic Splatter though.

[chainlink]

Not possible with Fiery Burst since it requires a lvl3 Fire spell to be used.
So minimal damage would be 3d6 and not possible at CLvl 1.

Could work for Acidic Splatter though.

My copy of CM says 2nd. Good tactic for a gruelling low lvl dungeon if retraining is available later.

[Devmaar]

Wow, you're trying to set up a TPK, aren't you. All monsters should only get 1 instance of Toughness, and Dodge would make them harder to hurt. They should spend their feats on +2/+2 skill boosts and things like Skill Focus: Profession (Underwater Basket Weaving).

You're trying to avoid a TPK and you give monsters UBW?I hope your party's mighty optimised to deal with that

[Andorax]

A few other notes:

1) [Reserve] is a feat type, much like [metamagic] or [divine]. Does that make it make more sense?

2) While arcanists have had the focus in this discussion, divine casters have full access to these feats (see the mention of Holy Warrior) as well. I have a cleric who's primarially a buffer/healer in my current group who tossed a feat at Fiery Burst and keeps a flame strike in reserve most of the time...she's been quite pleased with the resultant ability to toss fire around all the live-long day, or at least until the situation gets dire.

3) Reserve feats are as powerful and useful as the style of gameplay makes them. If you're in a campaign where the universe waits patiently for the PCs to get the job done and the "15 minute day" is alive and well, then they're not very valuable. If, on the other hand, warlocks are considered pretty dang good and wizards have to make tough decisions about using a spell now or needing it later, there's a lot of potential benefits.

4) There's a lot more different reserve feats that haven't seen mention yet, with a variety of utility benefits. Reserve feats for limited flight, small d-doors, counteracting ability damage, healing everyone in the party up to the halfway mark before resorting to casting healing spells. Definately look through Complete Mage and Complete Champion for feats with the [reserve] tag and seeing what the options are like.

5) While not raw-legal, I played at one point with the idea of allowing unexpended SLAs to fuel reserve feats as well, and it opens up a variety of interesting possibilities. Dragonmarks, for example, can be a lot more intertesting in a setup such as this.

6) Raw-questionable, but also worthy of mention, is Psionics. Under some interpretations of magic/psionics transparency, having an appropriately high level power you could manifest means that the much-maligned "psionic reserve" could be making a comeback, and make even sorcerors seem like chumps in terms of powering reserve feats.

[Terazul]

http://www.novarata.net/Thread_Necromancy.jpg

Two years, guys.

[Doxkid]

To be fair it's more like 1.75 years.

HOW DO YOU GUYS EVEN FIND THESE OLD THREADS?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm betting google has something to do with it.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Wow, that campaign was two years ago. Time flies.

[Thurbane]

Yes, the only thing more annoying than resurrected threads is people's need to post the same, tired old graphic every time...

If thread necro actually bothers you, report it to a mod, don't contribute. :smallmad:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Yes, the only thing more annoying than resurrected threads is people's need to post the same, tired old graphic every time...

If thread necro actually bothers you, report it to a mod, don't contribute. :smallmad:

You see the irony in your post right? :smallamused:

Also, how is this not locked yet?

[Salasay]

What action does it take to use acidic splatter? The feat description doesn't specify.

[Alex12]

What action does it take to use acidic splatter? The feat description doesn't specify.

Standard action unless otherwise specified.

[nedz]

Wow — double necro and three years old !

This is a reserve thread isn't it ?

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff:Thread necromancy is not cool. Please review the Forum Rules.