[3.5] Level 15 Cleric//X

[herrhauptmann]

Now that I've finally begun to try using the forums pbp, I'm actually working at making new characters, rather than just reworking old characters.

Currently, looking at a level 15 game which I decided initially I would gestalt a Radiant Servant with an older character for simplicity. However, with the PrC rules for gestalt, that ended up not being possible (plus the older character needed to get reworked because a few my choices were not just ineffective, but useless).
Currently, thinking of a Bariaur (LA +1, MotP). The tauric bodyshape would allow use of mounted combat feats, just like Tauric template, and the inevitable (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut). Alternatively, a human with the saint template (LA +2?) and little or no mounted combat. If I play Human, then 3 levels at the start will be in Human Paragon from UA.

In either case, I was thinking of name the character St Michael (religious or not, I love the Judeo-christian imagery). And a big part of his shtick will be "Feel the wrath of God B****es". The evil abominations (undead, demons, devils, will receive no mercy. While mortals will have the opportunity for redemption. Not that he's Stupid Good, though. Someone obviously unrepentant (given a chance, and spurn it for an attempt to backstab me) will get thrown into the "Feel the wrath" category as well.
Bariaur

If you strike me down, I shall only become more powerful than you can possibly comprehend.
At start before racial adjustments: Str12 Dex14 Con12 Int14 Wis16 Cha16
BoED bariaur stats at start: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 14
Stats are 40 pointbuy.
Cha >Wis (=19 wisdom by level 15) > Con >Str (>=15 for Power attack) >Dex >Int
{table=Head]Level|Left|Right|Feats|More feats
1 | Cloistered Cleric1 |LA 1|Extra Turning|
2 | Cloistered Cleric2 |Fighter1|Power Att |Cleave
3 | Cloistered Cleric3 |Fighter2|Extend spell|Ftr Feat
4 | Cloistered Cleric4 |XX|Imbued Healing |
5 | Cloistered Cleric5 |XX|Leap Attack |
6 | Cloistered Cleric6 |XX|Persist Spell|
7 | Radiant Servant1 |XX|Imp Bullrush |
8 | Radiant Servant2 |XX|Shocktrooper |
9 | Radiant Servant3 |XX|DMM: Persist|
10| Radiant Servant4 |XX|Spontaneous Domain |
11| Radiant Servant5 |XX|Mounted Combat |
12| Sacred Exorcist 1 |XX|Ride-by Attack |
13| Sacred Exorcist 2 |XX|Spirited Charge |
14| Sacred Exorcist 3 |XX|Trample |
15| Sacred Exorcist 4 |XX|Sacred Vow|
16| Sacred Exorcist 5 |XX|Vow of OBedience |
17| RSoP or SE6 |XX|FEAT |
18| RSoP or SE7 |XX|FEAT |
19| RSoP or SE8|XX|FEAT |
20| RSoP or SE9|XX|FEAT |
[/table]
As a houserule, all characters receive A LOT of feats, so I've got plenty to burn. And nightsticks don't stack, so only 1 is usable. And we're limited to only 6 classes or PrC.

--Fighter just for a few extra bonus feats, can trade them out if I turn out not to need them (perhaps another +2 in templates).
--Crusader would go great thematically for levels 4-20, but I don't think it would give me much. Particularly if I could also go warblade or swordsage. Swordsage would suffer from wearing heavy armor and has medium BAB, while warblade has a low reflex save.
--Also, a level in Hierophant would probably do wonders for my casting with those weird metamagics.
--Knight4 would give me mounted combat for free, but I really don't like their code of conduct. And that few levels in Knight is almost a waste, better to go fighter4 and spend one of my 3 fighter feats on mounted combat.

--Sacred Vow and Vow of Obedience are just so that my character can continue playing if I die( Risen Martyr). Particularly if I'm the only one capable of casting raise dead or similar. It would be best to have both of those at the start of the game, so just need one extra bonus feat in there.

House rules:


Allow list

Classes:
-Force Golem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8983373&postcount=1020) (Monster Classes)
-Destroyer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8679540&postcount=1)
-Warmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131346) (TG Oskar)
-Proud Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151350) (Lix Lorn)
-Shrewd tactitian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151350) (Lix Lorn)
-Noble Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151350) (Lix Lorn)
(-The Dreadnaught (Fax Celestia)) - Up for re-review: d20r.
-Swashbuckler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155012) (Samm)
-Foot Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153583) (Samm)
-Eldritch Blade Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70397)
-Gorilla Barbarian ACF (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7879541&postcount=2)
-Brawler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149668)
-Truenamer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90961) (Kellus)
-Lexeme (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90961) (Kellus)
-Blade Operant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5687663) (Demented One)
-Tarasque Totem Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157302)
-Racial Paragon Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) (UA)
-Variant Character Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) (UA)
-Ebon Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163297)
-Swordmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149724&highlight=swordmage) (Dragoonwraith)
-Ozodrin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153536)
-Dreadnaught (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10762) (Fax Celestis)
-Brawler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11110) (Fax Celestis)

Prestige Classes:
-Arcane Duellist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)
-Midnight Occultist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157493) (Dragoonwraith)
-Beastmaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147289)
-Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)
-Conduit of the Far Realms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168602) (Hattrick)
-Sothoth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157013) (Nanoblack)

Items:
-Warheart Weaponry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5580531) (The Demented One)

Disciplines:
-Army of One discipline. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5710173)
-Dancing Leaf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85614)
-Black Heron discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100874)
-Oncoming Storm discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54816)
-Scarlet Bravura discipline (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5569037)(Demented One)
-Measure of Man : Redux (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149336)

Feats:
Aberration Blood Expanded (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474) (EdroGrimshell)

Flaws:
-Impatient (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Impatient_(3.5e_Flaw)
Comfort Object (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Comfort_Object_(3.5e_Flaw)

Races:
-Onaken (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8601455#post8601455)

Other:
Fey blood (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/3CsX278ZDGQQ62al3RP.html)
Dragonwrought Ritual;

Secrets of Sarlona is allowed.



Banlist

Classes:
Generic Classes

Prestige Classes:
Incantrix
Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
Planaar Sheperd
Thrallherd
Dweomerkeeper

Feats:
Greenbound Summoning
Metamagic Song: Hieghten
Divine Metamagic: Hieghten

Items:
Relics
Magical Locations
Dust of Sneezing and Choking
Planaar Touchstones
Item Familiars

Spells:
Gate
Persisted Delay Death
Persisted Favor of the Martyr
Persisted Favor of Ilmater
Persisted Shield of Lathander
Bestow Power
Linked Syncrocity
Shun the Dark Chaos

Races:
None.

Templates:
Mineral Warrior.

Other:
Bloodlines;
Taint;
Loredrake;
Anything from UA not on the allow list.




Rulings

-Nightsticks do not stack

-Unarmed Strikes are Natural Weapons

-Multi-weapon fighting works with bows.

-Quick drawing can be done with any weapons, including if you can count anything as a weapon.

-Pixies receive Dodge and Weapon Finesse as racial bonus feats

-Racial dependant values, such as the Pixie's spellresistance based on class levels, use the value from the racial/la side of gestalt.

-You can use dual progression PrCs, but the requirements for the PrC must be met on one side of Gestalt.

-Level based effects cap at level 15. This includes Dual progression PrCs, multi-class advancement feats such as Swift Tracker.

-Any effect that makes you immune to death through damage will result in you being polymorphed into a cheese block. If you're planning that, go back to the drawing board, unless you enjoy playing cheese.

-You are limited to 10 attacks. Boosts do not count, for example Haste, but if you are consistently able to get bonus attacks you cannot go above 10.

-Spring Attack and Shot on the Run can be used not only with attacks, but also with standard actions.

-Font of Inspiration may not be taken as the outstanding feats you receive every level, e.g. 2nd, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th level.

-Naerubus' faster healing ability does not heal damage you take voluntarily.






So what am I missing, what should I be taking that I've overlooked? I think I have everything I need for a DMM cleric. While mounted combat builds have a lot of effort put into increasing the abilities of the mount, which are useless in this case. I AM my mount (at least for the bariaur)
I'm also planning on playing this character down to the average level of the party if needed. But if everyone else is a better optimizer than me, I'll need every trick possible to keep up.
Places I looked:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172468&highlight=radiant+servant+handbook
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164921&highlight=radiant+servant+handbook
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133094&highlight=radiant+servant+handbook



edit: Added a list of houserules.

[mabriss lethe]

What about Binder on your second half? lots of passive abilities, decent synergy.

[HunterOfJello]

There's always Mystic Ranger (which can be combined with Wildshape Ranger).

Psychic Warrior also uses wisdom and is a very effective melee class. If you want to take levels in something else first, the War Mind PrC is similar with a faster progression.

[Mongoose87]

Doesn't Risen Martyr perma-kill you at 10th level?

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Do you have (access to) the Tome of Battle? Gestalt either with Crusader or Swordsage and you're golden.

[herrhauptmann]

What about Binder on your second half? lots of passive abilities, decent synergy.
Hadn't thought of Binder, I have ToM though... I believe there's a houserule for that binding that heals damage, I'll have to doublecheck. Any suggested bindings?


There's always Mystic Ranger (which can be combined with Wildshape Ranger).
Psychic Warrior also uses wisdom and is a very effective melee class. If you want to take levels in something else first, the War Mind PrC is similar with a faster progression.
Hmm, Psywar would actually be really good. No real Prestige classes available though, not unless I drop some RSoP or Sacred Exorcist (only 1 PrC at a time).
Which book is Mystic Ranger in? I'm pretty sure Wildshape Ranger is UA.


Doesn't Risen Martyr perma-kill you at 10th level?
Yup, but I don't think the game will last until level 25. Bigger disadvantage would be a loss of my Con score, though suddenly getting my Cha to AC could be neat. Also, once I die and return, I'm forced to advance as a Risen Martyr only. Still, it looks like a neat PrC, bunch of fun abilities, some really strong, some not (shield other 3/day)
Also, I just looked up the deathless type. Holy crap.

*Not affected by raise dead/reincarnate.. Resurrection/True Rez restore me to former lifeform. Not sure how that would mix with Risen Martyr.
*I can be turned or destoryed by evil clerics. Can be bolstered by good clerics.
*Gain same bonuses from consecrate/hallow as undead do from desecrate/unhallow. (SE 5 grants me a consecrated aura) So unless there's an evil cleric who's as good at rebuking undead as I am at turning them, I shouldn't have to worry.
*Similar bonuses/disadvantages to spells that Undead get, though reversed. Like unholy water hurts me, disrupt undead heals me. And certain spells like Searing Light aren't insta-kill on the deathless
*Immune to mind affecting effects
*Immune to poison, sleap, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects.
*Not subject to crits, nonlethal damage, or ability drain to physical scores (Str, Dex, Con, no idea why con is mentioned, I have Con-)
*Immune to any effect taht requires a Fort save, except for energy drain attacks, effects taht also work on objects, and harmless effects. I guess that means disintegrate is still an issue
*Cha mod for concentration checks (Makes no sense, but ok)
*No death from massive damage. But die at 0 HP


Do you have (access to) the Tome of Battle? Gestalt either with Crusader or Swordsage and you're golden.
Yup, mentioned all three ToB classes above.
Crusader fits thematically, but a lot of the benefits don't really apply since I'm already gestalting with 1 of the best cleric PrC in existence.
Swordsage I lose a little bit by wearing heavy armor, and it's a medium BAB class. But I benefit from some skill-monkeying (not too much at first with cloistered cleric, but ti would continue with RSoP and SE, who are both rather dumb when it comes to skills).
Warblade could work, it's what the fighter could've/should've been anyway. But again, that low reflex save is going to suck.

Sudden question: With extra turning, I've already got more turning attempts than I do Greater Turning attempts. Is there a feat to grant me additional Greater Turning attempts?

[SurlySeraph]

Mystic Ranger is from Dragon Magazine.

I'm not aware of any feat that gives more Greater Turning.

[Tvtyrant]

Take the Contemplative PrC for the extra domains?

[herrhauptmann]

Mystic Ranger is from Dragon Magazine.

I'm not aware of any feat that gives more Greater Turning.
Do you know which Dragon Magazine? I've got most of them, but I've no desire to go searching through each and every magazine.


Take the Contemplative PrC for the extra domains?
I'll pass on the contemplative I think, even though it is easy entry. I don't think I need even more domains. Sun and healing. Also Glory or Purification OR another of Lathander's domains. And I think Radiant Servants additional class abilities will aid me far more Contemplative would. Though if the combination of Radiant Servant, Sacred Exorcist, and the possibility of Risen martyr wasn't so awesome, I probably would.

Also, we're limited to 6 classes and PrCs. I've got 4 already, and one is earmarked for Risen martyr if needed. So Contemplative would be my last possible class.

[Karsh]

Ultimately, in gestalt, you want one half of your class progression to be your "Active" half, while the other half of your progression is a "Passive" half that synergizes well with the abilities you're pumping on the active side.

Incarnate is always a good option for the passive end of the spectrum, though if you're really set on going Risen Martyr, you should ask your DM about the possibility of replacing the CON determining your soulmelds with CHA.

[herrhauptmann]

Ultimately, in gestalt, you want one half of your class progression to be your "Active" half, while the other half of your progression is a "Passive" half that synergizes well with the abilities you're pumping on the active side.

Incarnate is always a good option for the passive end of the spectrum, though if you're really set on going Risen Martyr, you should ask your DM about the possibility of replacing the CON determining your soulmelds with CHA.



Hadn't really thought about a "passive" half of my progression. I've only completed one gestalt character so far (and just started that game). So I've been figuring that the second half of the progression was for shoring up weaknesses in the other half of the progression. ex: Few skill points, poor class skill list, poor saves/BAB.
What would you say synergizes poorly with the Radiant Servant/Sacred Exorcist?

I'll have to heavily review the soulmelds before I make that decision. I know even less about those than I do Binding.