Art Thieves and DnD <3.5>

[Tokuhara]

Backstory: Ill be soon playing in a 9th level OA campaign and am between a Nezumi Warblade/Ronin/Iaijutsu Master who uses a wooden katana and a Hengeyokai (Tanuki) Spellthief/Sorcerer/Daggerspell Thief(?)/Arcane Trickster/Magical Trickster who's primary profession is an Art Thief.

Question: In D&D terms, how much would/could an Art Thief make any given heist?

[Pyrite]

The DMG treasure tables have several listings for art objects, but the typical "old, masterpiece painting" is listed at 4d6*100, or 400-2400 gold pieces.

[Tokuhara]

The DMG treasure tables have several listings for art objects, but the typical "old, masterpiece painting" is listed at 4d6*100, or 400-2400 gold pieces.

So an art thief who did a heist every week or so would live well?

[Kalaska'Agathas]

So an art thief who did a heist every week or so would live well?

Assuming the art could be fenced in that time, and who wasn't tracked down by the authorities, or killed by those guarding the art, yes.

[TheMeMan]

Assuming the art could be fenced in that time, and who wasn't tracked down by the authorities, or killed by those guarding the art, yes.

However, a clever enough thief could pull off a Thomas Crown Affair style heist.

In fact I think that could be a clever plot hook for a party.

[Gabe the Bard]

The artwork or art object could also be a magic item or a holy relic. Then it could be considerably more valuable than a nonmagical item.

[Tokuhara]

However, a clever enough thief could pull off a Thomas Crown Affair style heist.

In fact I think that could be a clever plot hook for a party.

Do what???

The idea is that he's a talented thief who sells to a fence, in this case, a Blue Dragon, who then sells to dealers for profit

[TheMeMan]

Do what???

The idea is that he's a talented thief who sells to a fence, in this case, a Blue Dragon, who then sells to dealers for profit

Its the art of not getting caught. It's based off of a movie. Essentially when you steal something, you replace it with a fake. Commission someone(Or if you can get a decent enough craft in the given skill) to create a fraudulent piece of art, sneak in, and replace the original with the fake. That way, you won't have to necessarily worry about guards.

It's an idea.

[Pyrite]

Sounds like Shadowrun. In which case, you should always remember the old axiom...

Important considerations would be the cut the dragon takes (A big one, you can count on that.) the prices that people are willing to pay for the paintings, and any other costs of business (like, for instance, if he is replacing them with fakes, the fakes aren't free.)

[Psyren]

Its the art of not getting caught. It's based off of a movie. Essentially when you steal something, you replace it with a fake. Commission someone(Or if you can get a decent enough craft in the given skill) to create a fraudulent piece of art, sneak in, and replace the original with the fake. That way, you won't have to necessarily worry about guards.

It's an idea.

That's one hell of a Forgery check. Signatures are bad enough, let alone opuses.

[Ernir]

I think your biggest concern should be not getting hunted down by magical means.

Go through the PHB/SRD list of divination spells. For every spell that causes you to think "ooff, this could expose me", prepare a way to get around it.

You may find that the most effective thief is a spellcaster, but...

[Admiral Squish]

That's one hell of a Forgery check. Signatures are bad enough, let alone opuses.

Well, it's certainly doable. They do it quite often in modern times. Besides, the real master's talent lies in the portrayal. Once it's on paper, it would be simple enough to recreate it by breaking it down from 'a painting of a woman' to singular brushstrokes.

One idea would be to take the painting, copy the painting, then leave the fake to be discovered. While creating a copy previously would be ideal in that if done properly, the alarm wouldn't be raised, in a time without photographs to work from the copy would likely be shoddy. Copying directly from the masterpiece, however, would allow for a more convincing fake. Plus, depending on where the painting is found, it would allow the authorities to feel accomplished, and thus less likely to admit they may not have the real thing at all.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Well, it's certainly doable. They do it quite often in modern times. Besides, the real master's talent lies in the portrayal. Once it's on paper, it would be simple enough to recreate it by breaking it down from 'a painting of a woman' to singular brushstrokes.

One idea would be to take the painting, copy the painting, then leave the fake to be discovered. While creating a copy previously would be ideal in that if done properly, the alarm wouldn't be raised, in a time without photographs to work from the copy would likely be shoddy. Copying directly from the masterpiece, however, would allow for a more convincing fake. Plus, depending on where the painting is found, it would allow the authorities to feel accomplished, and thus less likely to admit they may not have the real thing at all.

Or you could use the same divinations you'd have to protect yourself against to 'photograph' the painting, fake the painting, and pull a Thomas Crown.

[Demons_eye]

Or you could use the same divinations you'd have to protect yourself against to 'photograph' the painting, fake the painting, and pull a Thomas Crown.

OR Autohypnosis is your friend.

[Psyren]

The bigger issue is that nobody will ever uncover your deception, because nobody puts ranks in Forgery :smalltongue:

[Demons_eye]

The bigger issue is that nobody will ever uncover your deception, because nobody puts ranks in Forgery :smalltongue:

:smallsigh: Tell that to some of the DM's I have had. They also put ranks in sense motive.

[Quietus]

:smallsigh: Tell that to some of the DM's I have had. They also put ranks in sense motive.

Ranks in Forgery is far more surprising than Sense Motive. I know one DM of mine intends, should anyone ever invest in Forgery, to allow Spot to oppose it. Which makes sense, I guess, but it's still .. eh.

Though the idea of your generic rank-and-file guards being stuck in a classroom and taught to copy people's signatures is rather amusing.

[JonRG]

The bigger issue is that nobody will ever uncover your deception, because nobody puts ranks in Forgery :smalltongue:

By that logic, wouldn't there be no forgers for the same reason?

[Tokuhara]

What he'd do is steal only art he's interested in, and before he leaves, he leaves a statue of a Blue Tanuki on a table. Then, extradimensional bag of holding in mouth, becomes his tanuki form and all but vanishes

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Nine times out of ten, your Forgery check only has to be good enough to pass casual inspection, anyway. Unless the owner is already paranoid, he’s not going to be making detailed checks of the artwork on a daily basis. By the time he does find it’s a forgery, your trail should be well and cold and all necessary anti-divination protections in place.

[grimbold]

remember that the average peasant makes 1sp a day. So if you stole some low quality art (50 gp) You would be set for a year.

[Tokuhara]

So a good art thief could live comfortably, depending on how much art he steals any given heist

[BG]

So a good art thief could live comfortably, depending on how much art he steals any given heist

Pretty much, although you probably won't be getting much more than 10-20% of the actual value of the things you steal.

Then again, it sounds like your character does it for the thrill just as much as for the money, so being an art thief works out for him. You should take some ranks in forgery, so you can spot them yourself, and check with your DM to see what Knowledge skill would apply to knowing art.

Also, depending on the group, your character already has a built in reason to join up with a party, especially if you've stolen something particularly valuable (or from a lord who is particularly bloodthirsty). Many a thief goes adventuring in order to let the heat die down.