(3.5e) Can someone help me list the main ways a *Wizard* can heal using THEIR spells?

[Gavinfoxx]

Hi, I'm trying to get a list of the main set of 'hoops' that a D&D 3.5e wizard has to jump through in order to be able to heal injury and hit point damage of OTHER folk using their wizardly spellcasting.

I know it is possible in a fairly large number of ways, I just would like some help getting a list, maybe? Especially considering the lowest level ones possible, and ones that require the least expenditure of resources, or imply the least amount of special training?

Also, it would really help if, in a reply, you mentioned whether something was a feat or an alternate class feature or something else, and listed the book... page number too if you have it. Thanks!

[Soren Hero]

i think the general consensus around the boards is that spells for healing are generally a waste of resources...the best two healing items for your money are a wand of cure light wounds and a wand of lesser vigor (i think its available in a wand form, im not familiar with the lesser vigor)...the wand of CLW is only 750 gp, for an average of 5 hp * 50 charges= 250 hp cured...there's a guide at brilliantgameologists, but the boards are down..the link is http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1121.0

[Telonius]

Very situational, but if the "other people" in question are Warforged it's pretty easy. The "Repair Damage" line from Complete Arcane will fix them up just fine.

[Adamantrue]

If you really want to, you could probably take Arcane Disciple (Feat, Complete Divine), and pick a Domain that gives you the spells you want. There are some Domains out there that has the occasional Cure spell in the same list as something nifty, so it may be worth it for that reason.

[EvilJoe15]

Bards are the answer.

Bards can cast Cure spells as arcane spells. They can also take scribe scroll.

Wizards can learn spells from any arcane scroll, as long as it's not part of aa banned school.


Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll

A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

Please note it says nothing about the spells being on another classes list. So if you can get an arcane scroll of a divine spell a Wizard can learn it.

[Merk]

Make your friends into Iron Golems, and then throw your fire damage spell of choice at them.

[JBento]

Bards are the answer.

Bards can cast Cure spells as arcane spells. They can also take scribe scroll.

Wizards can learn spells from any arcane scroll, as long as it's not part of aa banned school.



Please note it says nothing about the spells being on another classes list. So if you can get an arcane scroll of a divine spell a Wizard can learn it.

It also, you'll find, says nothing about the spells needing to be Arcane. But, assuming your DM is not a total push-over, worry not! Both nagas and several types of dragons can cast divine spells from the cleric list and/or several domains as arcane spells and, at least the dragons, would be more than willing to help you craft an arcane scroll (your feat) with Heal (their spell) in it for moneis, at which point you copy it to your spellbook.

[Chilingsworth]

You could take The Arcane Disciple feat (Complete Divine, Pg 79.) for the Healing domain, you could use the spell Healing Touch (Spell Compendium Pg. 111.) If you're inculding creatures healed by effects other than positive energy, then the repair spells (Spell Compendium Pg 173) can repair constructs including warforged. I think there are also some wizard spells that deal negative energy damage. Such spells would heal undead and creatures with the Tomb Tainted Soul feat from Libris Mortis.

EDIT:

You can also take the Rainbow Servant PrC (COmplete Divine Pg. 55) It eventually allows you to learn spells from the cleric list as arcane spells, as well as serveral domains.

[Yuki Akuma]

Lesser Wish.

Also: negative energy damage does not heal undead, just like positive energy damage does not heal the living.

The "negative energy heals undead" thing is a specific function of the Inflict line of spells, not a blanket rule.

[Urpriest]

Do spell-like abilities of summoned creatures count?

[Grelna the Blue]

There are several more effective ways of arcane healing than those I've listed below, but I don't have my character notes with me at the moment, so I'm relying on memory and a couple gamebooks I happen to have with me.

I had fun with a Necromancer character who, before she turned to good, used to cast Shroud of Undeath (Sor/Wiz 2, Spell Compendium p.189) upon herself or others in need of healing, and then used the spell Negative Energy Ray (3.0 Sor/Wiz 1, Tome and Blood p.93) to heal them.

I'm not claiming the method above was even slightly efficient, but I'm pretty sure it is perfectly legal. At least, I know it is in Pathfinder, and I believe it was in 3.5 Ed.

It certainly creeped the other players out in a big way, which was most of the point.

Vampiric Touch (Sor/Wiz 3) is great for self-healing, of course. Healing Touch (Sor/Wiz 3, SC p.111) can be used for healing others in an emergency, but the caster takes half the amount healed as damage, meaning that unless the caster has plenty and to spare (as for instance the bonus hit points gained from Vampiric Touch) this spell stinks.

There were several 2nd Ed. spells that, iirc, were effective, but they'd need to be houseruled in. Life Water, a 9th level spell, was the very best, as it cured conditions and regenerated limbs in addition to healing hit point damage.

[Gavinfoxx]

Polymorph and PAO don't give Ex qualities, and Shapechange is Personal, so how do you change your friends into something with Fast Healing or something that is healed by fire or electricity or whatever?

Also:


Lesser Wish.

Also: negative energy damage does not heal undead, just like positive energy damage does not heal the living.

The "negative energy heals undead" thing is a specific function of the Inflict line of spells, not a blanket rule.

Are you sure about this??

[kestrel404]

Shapechange. Just change into something that gets spontaneous cleric casting (like a lot of angels and archons). If they get prepared spellcasting, you'd have to waste an hour preparing spells. Of course, that's only 60 of your minimum 170 minutes.

[Grelna the Blue]

Lesser Wish.

Also: negative energy damage does not heal undead, just like positive energy damage does not heal the living.

The "negative energy heals undead" thing is a specific function of the Inflict line of spells, not a blanket rule.


Tomb-Tainted Soul [General]
Your soul is tainted by the foul touch of undeath.
Prerequisite: Nongood alignment
Benefit: You are healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy as if you were an undead creature. This feat gives no other penalties or benefits of the undead type.

If you are correct in your assertion above, that makes this a strong contender for the most useless feat in the books. I've never had a character who took it, but I believe it works exactly as written.

[Yuki Akuma]

(Psst: That means "Cure spells, Lay On Hands, and such hurt you as if you were undead, while Inflict spells, the Dread Necromancer's negative energy touch, and such heal you as if you were undead".)

[senrath]

From the Undead type:

Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.

[Yuki Akuma]

Note the "can".

It doesn't always. The spells and abilities that heal undead with negative energy specifically say so.

Negative levels have a blanket rule about giving undead temp HP, but negative energy as a whole doesn't have a blanket rule.

Again, I point you towards the fact that living creatures can take positive energy damage.

[Grelna the Blue]

(Psst: That means "Cure spells, Lay On Hands, and such hurt you as if you were undead, while Inflict spells, the Dread Necromancer's negative energy touch, and such heal you as if you were undead".)

If that is so, why would anyone but a Dread Necromancer take the feat? And Dread Necromancers came out in Heroes of Horror a year or so after Libris Mortis was released, so it's not as if the feat were created specifically for them.

If a GM ruled that in her game that is how this feat worked--well, the GM's word is law. But I have not seen any official rulings to this effect. Given that I have a major villain my players will encounter in my game who has this very feat, I would appreciate being steered to any such ruling so I can decide whether to houserule it or to make the villain an undead (which would somewhat ruin her flavor).

[gbprime]

It's far more effective for a Wizard or Sorcerer to just SUMMON something that can heal.

Summon Monster 4 and 5 can get Archons that can use Aid unlimited.

Summon Monster 6 can get a Bralani Eladrin which has 2 cure serious wounds.

Summon Monster 7 can get a Movanic Deva. Not only does it have 3 Cure Serious available, but it can also fix poison, disease, curses, cast atonement, summon food and water, and even Raise Dead.

Summon Monster 9 can get a Firre Eladrin, which is a 12th level cleric.

And if you feel like giving Lesser Planar Binding a whirl, you can get a Hollyphant (can with Summon Monster 8 too) which brings a Heal and a Raise Dead to the table.

[Urpriest]

If that is so, why would anyone but a Dread Necromancer take the feat? And Dread Necromancers came out in Heroes of Horror a year or so after Libris Mortis was released, so it's not as if the feat were created specifically for them.

If a GM ruled that in her game that is how this feat worked--well, the GM's word is law. But I have not seen any official rulings to this effect. Given that I have a major villain my players will encounter in my game who has this very feat, I would appreciate being steered to any such ruling so I can decide whether to houserule it or to make the villain an undead (which would somewhat ruin her flavor).

Because almost every negative energy spell and feat ever printed has the caveat "this spell heals undead rather than damaging them." The key point to note is that there are some that do not. So your villains is fine, just make sure the spells you're using to fuel the shtick mention that they heal undead.

[SurlySeraph]

There are a two arcane healing spells in SpC: Healing Touch (3rd-level, heal 1d6/level and take that as damage) and Synostodweomer (7th level, swift action, you heal 1d8 per spell level of the next spell you cast that round). They're both pretty bad.

[Grelna the Blue]

Because almost every negative energy spell and feat ever printed has the caveat "this spell heals undead rather than damaging them." The key point to note is that there are some that do not. So your villains is fine, just make sure the spells you're using to fuel the shtick mention that they heal undead.

Hm, fair enough, I suppose. The spell my necromancer used in conjunction with Shroud of Undeath (and again, this was mostly for flavor, not for effectiveness) was Negative Energy Ray, which has the following text as its final paragraph:


Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures them of a like amount of damage, rather than harming them.

[Grelna the Blue]

There are a two arcane healing spells in SpC: Healing Touch (3rd-level, heal 1d6/level and take that as damage) and Synostodweomer (7th level, swift action, you heal 1d8 per spell level of the next spell you cast that round). They're both pretty bad.

Not to claim that Healing Touch is a good spell for an arcane caster, because it's definitely not, but the caster only takes half the damage that is healed.

[Yuki Akuma]

Seriously, if undead were healed by all negative energy, they wouldn't need to specify in all those negative energy spells that they heal undead.

And the point remains that there is a monster with a positive energy attack that harms the living.

:smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Casting Polymorph heals, as does Light of Venya. Not very efficiently (Light of Venya specifically only heals properly for divine casters) but there you go. And of course, yeah, Assume Su Ability Polymorphs or Shapechanges work fine; just pick a form with Su healing abilities and go to town.

[WarrenZig]

The whole negative energy and undead thing really depends on how you use the word "can" Can actually has two uses, one being the probability of an action occurring, and if we put it into the template. "Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) (could possibly) heal undead creatures."

The other use of "can" means something is able to do something, and this put into the template. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) (Is able to) heal undead creatures. it's really a matter of interpretation.

btw, is there a negative energy spell that actually says it hurts undead?

[Grelna the Blue]

btw, is there a negative energy spell that actually says it hurts undead?

There are at least a few that cause fear in them (Chill Touch and Negative Energy Wave come to mind), but I don't think any cause damage.

[Yuki Akuma]

btw, is there a negative energy spell that actually says it hurts undead?

None that I can remember, but there are a few I can think of that don't heal them.

Names elude me, though.

[Grelna the Blue]

There really ought to be more ways for an arcane caster to heal using positive energy. I take it as a given that clerics should do be able to do it better, but as wizards are generally considered to be suckers on these boards every time they cast a spell that a cleric could have cast instead, I don't see that wizards will be lining up to become the main healers of many groups. Heck, bards can heal using arcane energy, and almost none of them have the slightest clue how they do what they're doing when they cast spells.

[Eloel]

Summon Monster: Unicorn?

[Reynard]

*Sigh* This very topic came up a while ago, asking if there was a way for a wizard to heal with their own spells.

No one listened to this then, so I don't hold many high hopes here.

Spell Compendium, page 218. Sorcerer/Wizard 7. Synostodweomer. Cast as a swift action. The next spell you cast that round has an additional effect: You can touch yourself or an ally to heal them.

[Yuki Akuma]

There's a reason Bards have healing spells: originally, bards were some unholy cross-class abomination that cast spells from the Mage and Druid spell lists.

It was only later that they got their own spell list, and they kept the healing and some of the other druidic spells.

[Grelna the Blue]

There's a reason Bards have healing spells: originally, bards were some unholy cross-class abomination that cast spells from the Mage and Druid spell lists.

It was only later that they got their own spell list, and they kept the healing and some of the other druidic spells.

That sounds about right. I remember the original 1st Ed bards, and they were basically the first PrC in the game. However, as someone who enjoys the idea of playing a mage who plays with the forces of life and death, I'm disappointed that arcane casters can really only effectively work with the Dark Side of the Force. Especially when there isn't any in-game explanation of why that is so and it's clearly not impossible.

[gbprime]

Summon Monster: Unicorn?

Nope, that's Summon Natures Ally (4, I think). And druids can already heal.

[Foryn Gilnith]

No one listened to this then, so I don't hold many high hopes here.

Spell Compendium, page 218. Sorcerer/Wizard 7. Synostodweomer. Cast as a swift action. The next spell you cast that round has an additional effect: You can touch yourself or an ally to heal them.

There are a two arcane healing spells in SpC: Healing Touch (3rd-level, heal 1d6/level and take that as damage) and Synostodweomer (7th level, swift action, you heal 1d8 per spell level of the next spell you cast that round). They're both pretty bad.

Truly, if everyone started reading and perfectly recalling every post in every thread they posted in, the land of forums would be a better place.

[Thurbane]

Polymorph allies into creatures with Fast Healing or Regeneration?

[Tvtyrant]

Bard=Third stringer
Wizard=1 stringer

I don't see it as a problem letting Bards heal and Wizards not.

[Eric Tolle]

Bard=Third stringer
Wizard=1 stringer

I don't see it as a problem letting Bards heal and Wizards not.

Sure it's a problem. If you do that, then you'll end up with parties where someone plays a bard, instead of everyone playing a wizard. And we can't have that, can we? :smalltongue:

[Tvtyrant]

Sure it's a problem. If you do that, then you'll end up with parties where someone plays a bard, instead of everyone playing a wizard. And we can't have that, can we? :smalltongue:

I lol'd!

Seriously though, if you want healing as a Wizard throw some ranks in UMD and get wands or get a Cleric. Seriously, you get a leadership Cleric and have them heal.

[Grelna the Blue]

Sure it's a problem. If you do that, then you'll end up with parties where someone plays a bard, instead of everyone playing a wizard. And we can't have that, can we? :smalltongue:


I lol'd!

Seriously though, if you want healing as a Wizard throw some ranks in UMD and get wands or get a Cleric. Seriously, you get a leadership Cleric and have them heal.

Actually, I don't mind too much not having a superhealing wizard. A party healer with low armor and crappy hit dice is not something I've ever aspired to be. However, I do dislike the gross imbalance between the number of arcane negative energy spells (all necromantic) and the much smaller number of positive energy spells (some of which are necromantic). There are scads of negative energy spells for necromancer specialists to hurt people with or to create or bolster undead, but very few positive energy spells for them to do other things with, even though theoretically they're just two faces of the same coin.

[Yuki Akuma]

In a party where everyone's a Wizard, I'd hope someone would go Rainbow Servant.

[Grelna the Blue]

Oh, another spell with tons of flavor that's capable of situational and limited self-healing:

Doom Scarabs, from PHBII.

DOOM SCARABS
Conjuration/Necromancy
Level: Duskblade 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half
Spell Resistance: See text

A swarm of scarabs surges from your outstretched hand. These insects rip and bite at all living creatures in the area, then return to you with life essence stolen from their victims.

This spell has two effects. It deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6) to all creatures in the area. Spell resistance does not apply to this damage. However, spell resistance does apply to the spell’s secondary effect. If you overcome a creature’s spell resistance, you gain 1d4 temporary hit points as the scarabs feast on the creature’s arcane energy and bleed it back into you. You gain these temporary hit points for each creature whose spell resistance you overcome. You never gain temporary hit points from creatures that do not have spell resistance.

The temporary hit points gained from this spell last for up to 1 hour.
I have a character who has been planning for some time to get this spell just for its freaky coolness at her next level.

[Eloel]

In a party where everyone's a Wizard, I'd hope someone would go Rainbow Servant.

I'd hope if someone will go Rainbow Servant, they play one of the spontaneous casters (Warmage/Beguiler/DN). They'd actually wind up more powerful than a no-PrC Wizard in the long run.

[Tvtyrant]

I'd hope if someone will go Rainbow Servant, they play one of the spontaneous casters (Warmage/Beguiler/DN). They'd actually wind up more powerful than a no-PrC Wizard in the long run.

Have them use reserve feats and they can even blast things while doing it :P


I think the reason that you have more negative energy then positive energy spells is that positive energy is really used just to heal; negative energy heals, deals damage, takes away levels, etc. There are only so many ways to heal but infinite ways to deal harm essentially.

[Myth]

*Sigh* This very topic came up a while ago, asking if there was a way for a wizard to heal with their own spells.

No one listened to this then, so I don't hold many high hopes here.

Spell Compendium, page 218. Sorcerer/Wizard 7. Synostodweomer. Cast as a swift action. The next spell you cast that round has an additional effect: You can touch yourself or an ally to heal them.

The Simbul has an upgraded version of this. It's Forgotten Realms specific however.

[gbprime]

I'd hope if someone will go Rainbow Servant, they play one of the spontaneous casters (Warmage/Beguiler/DN). They'd actually wind up more powerful than a no-PrC Wizard in the long run.

You know... I was all set to debate you on this, so I took another look at the Rainbow Servant. And wouldn't ya know... there's an error in the book.

The TABLE says Rainbow servant gets caster levels at 6 out of 10 levels. But the TEXT says they get caster levels at EVERY level. And in case of contradiction... Text trumps Table.

So... now that I know Rainbow Servant is a full caster progression, I must agree with you. :smalleek:

[Gavinfoxx]

The Simbul has an upgraded version of this. It's Forgotten Realms specific however.

Actually, as time goes on, the writeup of this spell has gotten MORE powerful. The 2e version (which mentioned simbul) was 2 hit points a spell level spent, the magic of faerun version (which also mentioned simbul) was 1d6 hit points a spell level and couldn't be cheesed to target more than one spell, and the Spell Compendium version (which DIDN'T mention Simbul) was 1d8 a spell level spent, and could be cheesed to let you spend more than one spell, as long as you could get enough spells off quickly enough...

[Zangano Athyran]

Healing Belt (Magic Item Compendium)
750 gp
3 charges/day
1 charge = cures 2d8
2 charges = cures 3d8
3 charges = cures 4d8

Just get multiples of these and use them as needed, exchanging them when they run out. In effect they are the equivalent of reuseable potions. In game, below level 12 these work just fine. No fuss, no feat, no problem.

[FMArthur]

Acquire money using Wall of Iron to sell as much iron as the town can afford/extort money out of towns to have you move your stupid wall of iron. Teleport to the next town and repeat.
Buy tons of Healing Belts (MIC p110), which can heal up to 6d8 (27 avg) HP per day (they recharge the next day, making them a better long-term purchase) and only cost 750gp. This one item actually changes the game to move away from requiring classes' healing as a necessity, because it is so wonderfully cheap for its use. You can afford enough Belts of Healing to stay upright alongside most standard gear with just the wealth appropriate for any level over 2.

[flabort]

Yeah, but the belt isn't a wizard spell! :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, my question wasn't the practical question, "What is the best way for a Wizard to not have to worry about healing?", it was the theoretical question, "What is the best way for a wizard to directly use their spells to heal hit point damage?"

[Grelna the Blue]

If you really want to, you could probably take Arcane Disciple (Feat, Complete Divine), and pick a Domain that gives you the spells you want. There are some Domains out there that has the occasional Cure spell in the same list as something nifty, so it may be worth it for that reason.

And if you do get Arcane Disciple (which adds the domain spells to your class list--they are arcane spells), you might as well pick up Touch of Healing (reserve feat in Complete Champion, p.62) so you can heal people up to half their hit points without casting and use your spells to bring them up the rest of the way.

You might also pick up Spontaneous Healer (feat from Complete Divine) so you can swap out normal spells for healing spells as a cleric does.

[Myth]

Actually, as time goes on, the writeup of this spell has gotten MORE powerful. The 2e version (which mentioned simbul) was 2 hit points a spell level spent, the magic of faerun version (which also mentioned simbul) was 1d6 hit points a spell level and couldn't be cheesed to target more than one spell, and the Spell Compendium version (which DIDN'T mention Simbul) was 1d8 a spell level spent, and could be cheesed to let you spend more than one spell, as long as you could get enough spells off quickly enough...

I've just come across it in the Simbul's statblock (FRCS, page 200). There it's a 9th level spell that converts prepared spells in 2 hp / spell level. Not terribly overpowered for a 9th level spell slot, but it's actually decent for her as she is a Sorcerer with extra 9th level spells known.

The Magic of Faerun version is entirely different, there it's a lvl 7 spell that converts to 1d6 healing but it requires three actions to use (cast spell, cast converted spell, touch self or other to use healing)

[Runestar]

Wizards are fairly good at generating temp hp, which can act as a form of pre-emptive healing. You have false life, vampiric touch, heart of earth etc. :smallsmile:

[JaronK]

Note the "can".

It doesn't always. The spells and abilities that heal undead with negative energy specifically say so.

Negative levels have a blanket rule about giving undead temp HP, but negative energy as a whole doesn't have a blanket rule.

Again, I point you towards the fact that living creatures can take positive energy damage.

Erm, that's backwards. The negative levels thing is only one spell. In general, undead are just immune to negative levels. But negative energy does just heal undead. The only exception is a Rogue sneak attacking an undead (with Gravestrike or something) with a negative energy attack, since sneak attack always does hp damage regardless of anything else.

Meanwhile, positive energy can heal or harm living things, but that's separate.

As for a way for a Wizard to heal himself... turn into an undead (Tomb Tainted or Necropolitan), and use Animate Dead to make a Necrosis Carnex (MMV). It'll just heal you happily forever after. Might as well make two or three.

JaronK

[dobu]

And if you do get Arcane Disciple (which adds the domain spells to your class list--they are arcane spells), you might as well pick up Touch of Healing (reserve feat in Complete Champion, p.62) so you can heal people up to half their hit points without casting and use your spells to bring them up the rest of the way.

You might also pick up Spontaneous Healer (feat from Complete Divine) so you can swap out normal spells for healing spells as a cleric does.

That. Then take Combat Medic [heroes of battle]. Maybe some Wyrm wizard in High level play to get resurrection.