[3.5] Acererak Pure Wizard or Wizard/Cleric ?

[zagan]

As you may know, or not, I'm currently stating up all the Vestiges, I've just finished the 4th level one but now I need to stat up Acererak. I've found a good wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acererak) article on him but I'm hesitant on his actual class. And I can't find any "official" stat for him.
My first inclinaison was a pure specialist wizard, a necromancer, but it's stated that he was a priest of Orcus (and perhaps later Vecna). Do they mean that he had cleric level or that it was just a worshipper ?
Some unoficial stat, found here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/conversions/48998-help-converting-acererak-d-d-3rd-edition.html#post2538628) post 7, stat him as a wizard/cleric/true necromancer. Is that accurate in any way ?

I think that his stat were in the 2nd edition Tomb of horror, do anyone happen to have it ? (They're not in the update module provide on the Wotc site)

Any help would be appreciate.

[Thurbane]

There were no stats for Acerarak in ToH (1E or 2E) other than as a demi-lich. Perhaps the 2E Return to the Tomb of Horrors had his stats? I believe this module revealed that the demi-lich in the previous module wasn't the "real" Acererak...and the real one was on his own demi-plane trying to achieve godhood.

[zagan]

There were no stats for Acerarak in ToH (1E or 2E) other than as a demi-lich. Perhaps the 2E Return to the Tomb of Horrors had his stats?

You mean they stat him as a monster and not a character ?

I believe this module revealed that the demi-lich in the previous module wasn't the "real" Acererak...and the real one was on his own demi-plane trying to achieve godhood.

Yeah it was some strong of construct that look like a demi-lich I've found those stat but it's useless for me.

[Runestar]

The updated castle perilous module stats Acererak as a half-fiend lich wiz17 (technically illegal though), though it is actually a simulacrum.

Used to be available on the wotc website, but seems to already have been removed. Here are the stats (let me know if I am infringing on any rules.

Acererak CR 22
hp 113 (17 HD); regeneration 10; DR 15/ bludgeoning
and magic
Male half-fiend/human lich wizard 17
NE Medium undead (evil, native outsider)
Init +10; Senses darkvision 60 ft., arcane sight, see invisibility;
Listen +15, Spot +15
Aura fear 60 ft. (DC 25)
Languages Common, Abyssal, Draconic, Infernal, Terran;
tongues
AC 29, touch 16, flat-footed 23
(+6 Dex, +5 armor, +1 insight, +2 luck, +5 natural)
Immune cold, electricity, mind-affecting, poison,
polymorph
Resist acid 10, fire 10, +4 turn resistance; SR 27
Fort +11, Ref +19, Will +18
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee staff of power +15 (1d6+9) and
bite +13 (1d6+7 plus damaging touch) or
Melee 2 claws +13 (1d4+7 plus damaging touch) and
bite +8 (1d6+7) or
Melee touch +15 (spell)
Ranged touch +14 (spell)
Base Atk +8; Grp +13
Special Actions automatic critical hit on a threat ( flesh
ring of scorn), damaging touch (DC 28), maximized
negative energy spells, paralyzing touch (DC 28)
Combat Gear scroll of control undead (3), scroll of
greater teleport (2), scroll of time stop, spiralburst
bottleBV (3), tongue studs of hell breathBV (3/day, 3d6
unholy damage)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 17th):
3/day—darkness, poison (DC 25), unholy aura (DC26)
1/day—blasphemy (DC 27), contagion (DC 24), desecrate,
horrid wilting (DC 26), summon monster IX,
unhallow, unholy blight (DC 24)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 17th):
9th—mass hold monster (DC 27)
8th—maze (DC 26), greater planar binding (DC 26),
temporal stasis (DC 26)
7th—antimagic raySC (DC 25), forcecage, project image
(DC 25), maximized sound lanceSC (DC 20)
6th—greater anticipate teleportationSC†, greater dispel
magic, disintegrate (2) (DC 24), eyebite (DC 25)
5th—arc of lightningSC (DC 23), graymantleSC (DC 24),
magic jar (DC 24), night’s caressSC (2) (DC 24)
4th—burning bloodSC (DC 22), dimension door (2),
force missileSC, lesser globe of invulnerability, ruin delver’s
fortuneSC
3rd—fly, mind poisonSC (DC 21), empowered ray of
enfeeblement (ranged touch +14), servant hordeSC†,
spectral hand, vampiric touch (melee touch +15)
2nd—command undead (2) (DC 21), Melf’s acid arrow
(ranged touch +14), rainbow beamSC, spectral
hand (2), wraithstrikeSC
1st—backbiter (DC 20), magic missile (2), ray of enfeeblement
(2) (ranged touch +14), repair light damageSC
0—acid splash, mage hand, mending, prestidigitation
† already cast
Abilities Str 20, Dex 22, Con —, Int 26, Wis 14, Cha 27
SQ summon familiar, undead traits
Feats Ability Focus (damaging touch), Ability Focus
(paralyzing touch), Brew PotionB, Craft StaffB, Craft
Wondrous ItemB, Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative,
Lightning Reflexes, Maximize SpellB, Scribe ScrollB,
Toughness
Skills Concentration +20, Craft (alchemy) +27, Gather Information
+10, Hide +14, Knowledge (arcana) +27, Knowledge
(architecture and engineering) +27, Knowledge
(dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (history) +27, Knowledge
(local) +27, Knowledge (religion) +27, Knowledge
(the planes) +27, Listen +15, Move Silently +14, Search
+15, Sense Motive +12, Spellcraft +29, Spot +15
Possessions staff of power (32 charges), belt of giant
Strength +8, cloak of Charisma +8, flesh ring
of scornBV, gloves of Dexterity +8, ioun stones ×3
(dusty rose prism, pale lavender ellipsoid [12 spell
levels left], and scarlet & blue sphere), robe of the
archmagi (black), soul crown (see Appendix), crystal
and platinum hourglass filled with diamond dust
worth 1,000 gp (focus for greater anticipate teleportation),
keys to all the doors in the tower, scroll
case, spell component pouchDamaging Touch Acererak has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures. A Will save DC 28 halves the damage. He can only deal this extra damage with one of his natural attacks.
Fear Aura (Su) Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-foot radius that look at Acererak’s simulacrum must succeed on a Will save DC 26 or be affected as if by a fear spell (CL 10th). A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same lich’s aura for 24 hours.
Paralyzing Touch (Su) Any living creature Acererak hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save DC 28 or be permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell than can remove a curse can free the victim. The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 20 Spot check or DC 15 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive.
Permanent Spells Acererak is under the effects of permanent arcane sight, comprehend languages, greater magic fang (+5 to all natural attacks), read magic, see invisibility, and tongues (CL 20th) bestowed by the original Acererak. They may be removed with a successful greater dispel magic (DC 31 caster level check). Note, however, that his divination powers do not function while inside the tower.
Smite Good (Su) 1/day, Acererak’s simulacrum can make a normal melee attack to deal an additional 17 points of damage against a good foe.

The original acererak is hinted to have a caster lv of 31, so perhaps wiz31?

And yes, I recall return to the tomb of horrors having stats for a pre-lich Acererak.

[zagan]

The updated castle perilous module stats Acererak as a half-fiend lich wiz17 (technically illegal though), though it is actually a simulacrum.

Used to be available on the wotc website, but seems to already have been removed. Here are the stats (let me know if I am infringing on any rules.

The original acererak is hinted to have a caster lv of 31, so perhaps wiz31?

And yes, I recall return to the tomb of horrors having stats for a pre-lich Acererak.

Thank you that help a little, and yes acererak build is illegal no matter what because outsider can't become lich. :smallamused:

[Zeta Kai]

I'd keep things simple: pure necromancer, no cleric levels. He seems to have been too smart to have dabbled in a sub-otimal build, & cleric/wizard doesn't synergize particularly well. If the priest thing is a concern, just fluff him to have worshipped Orcus/Vecna (I don't recall him being overly pious, but it's been a long time since I ran a ToH game).

[Eloel]

I'd keep things simple: pure necromancer, no cleric levels. He seems to have been too smart to have dabbled in a sub-otimal build, & cleric/wizard doesn't synergize particularly well.

As long as he knows he'll hit epic, he's actually better off being Wizard/Cleric into Mystic Theurge/True Necromancer. 9th level spells from 2 classes > 9th level spells from 1 class.
As long as he gets 9th level spells by level 21, he's happy (someone mentioned CL31. That implies something around ECL31, which should give him plenty to do.)

[zagan]

I'd keep things simple: pure necromancer, no cleric levels. He seems to have been too smart to have dabbled in a sub-otimal build, & cleric/wizard doesn't synergize particularly well. If the priest thing is a concern, just fluff him to have worshipped Orcus/Vecna (I don't recall him being overly pious, but it's been a long time since I ran a ToH game).


As long as he knows he'll hit epic, he's actually better off being Wizard/Cleric into Mystic Theurge/True Necromancer. 9th level spells from 2 classes > 9th level spells from 1 class.
As long as he gets 9th level spells by level 21, he's happy (someone mentioned CL31. That implies something around ECL31, which should give him plenty to do.)

In that case i'm not concern about power, on the contrary I would prefer if he wasn't too powerful he is suppose to become a a summonable monster with an ECL from 15 to 18. My problem was more about fidelity to the source material.

[Runestar]

Worshipping Orcus doesn't mean he must be a cleric. Non-divine classes such as fighters and wizards too can worship a deity simply by showing the necessary devotion.

I just remembered that there is a lichfiend template variant somewhere. So you can still have an undead outsider. :smallbiggrin:

[Telonius]

Worshipping Orcus doesn't mean he must be a cleric. Non-divine classes such as fighters and wizards too can worship a deity simply by showing the necessary devotion.

I just remembered that there is a lichfiend template variant somewhere. So you can still have an undead outsider. :smallbiggrin:

Not sure where the original source is, but the template is reproduced in the Shackled City adventure path.

[Myth]

For me the real Acererack should be taken from Return to the Tomb of Horrors. You can see his three incarnations on page 166. He has a Demilich form, a Skeleton form and a Winter Wight form.

It must be noted that he can freely inhabit any undead within his sanctuary. When you kill him in say, his skeleton form, his essence merely shifts to another physical body. Also, Demiliches in AD&D are vastly superior to their 3.5 versions.

The actual book you can find online in PDF format if you know how to use google.

[Runestar]

Why does he have a winterwight form?

[Myth]

The Winter Wight and Skeleton forms are given as the prime examples of what Acererack could choose to embody.

[zagan]

I've managed to found a pdf of it, it doesn't give a class but it give a list of prepared wizard spell and no indication that he has any cleric level (though I don't know how multiclassing work in 2nd ed). I will probably go with a straigh necromancer, thanks for all the help.

[Myth]

Do note the Demilich form can basically be hurt by only a few things. Inside his sanctum he's very very hard to kill.

[zagan]

Do note the Demilich form can basically be hurt by only a few things. Inside his sanctum he's very very hard to kill.

Yeah, I've seen that but for my purpôse it doesn't matter.

[Myth]

Umm how do you figure that Acererack is a vestige? I took a glance at binding a while back all the names were never heard of before for me. Suddenly you have Karsus and Acererack there. I would say neither is out of the fabric of reality so to speak...

[zagan]

Umm how do you figure that Acererack is a vestige? I took a glance at binding a while back all the names were never heard of before for me. Suddenly you have Karsus and Acererack there. I would say neither is out of the fabric of reality so to speak...

I'm not sure what you mean, they are both list in ToM as Vestiges and their story match with what I was able to find on those character.

[Zeta Kai]

As long as he knows he'll hit epic, he's actually better off being Wizard/Cleric into Mystic Theurge/True Necromancer. 9th level spells from 2 classes > 9th level spells from 1 class.
As long as he gets 9th level spells by level 21, he's happy (someone mentioned CL31. That implies something around ECL31, which should give him plenty to do.)

As we all know, a MT is 1-2 spell levels behind their single-classed peers for most of their career. I was saying that the Big A was too smart to take a sub-optimal build, & you're suggesting a build that may have gotten him killed before he ever hit epic levels. If you're an evil mage looking for the long-term benefit, which would you rather have: 7th level arcane & 7th level divine, or just 9th level arcane? Before you answer, remember that there's a strong chance that an adventuring party or two (or three, or four...) will eventually come looking for you, sooner or later, & that at least one of the members of each party will be a full caster.

[Eloel]

As we all know, a MT is 1-2 spell levels behind their single-classed peers for most of their career. I was saying that the Big A was too smart to take a sub-optimal build, & you're suggesting a build that may have gotten him killed before he ever hit epic levels. If you're an evil mage looking for the long-term benefit, which would you rather have: 7th level arcane & 7th level divine, or just 9th level arcane? Before you answer, remember that there's a strong chance that an adventuring party or two (or three, or four...) will eventually come looking for you, sooner or later, & that at least one of the members of each party will be a full caster.

Hence, the "conditional" sentences.

"As long as he knows he'll hit epic", was involved in my post. Choosing to skip it tends to miss the point.

[Tvtyrant]

As we all know, a MT is 1-2 spell levels behind their single-classed peers for most of their career. I was saying that the Big A was too smart to take a sub-optimal build, & you're suggesting a build that may have gotten him killed before he ever hit epic levels. If you're an evil mage looking for the long-term benefit, which would you rather have: 7th level arcane & 7th level divine, or just 9th level arcane? Before you answer, remember that there's a strong chance that an adventuring party or two (or three, or four...) will eventually come looking for you, sooner or later, & that at least one of the members of each party will be a full caster.

False Dichotomy; an evil overlord gets to stay in their castle 24/7 and thus can cast unhallow and desecrate on it, which increases its amount of undead. A wizard with level 9 spells would have less undead and generally weaker ones; he would also not be able to rebuke them. As an adventurer your right, but in the case of holing up in a castle and studying the True Necro/MT is better off.

[Myth]

I'm not sure what you mean, they are both list in ToM as Vestiges and their story match with what I was able to find on those character.

Oh right I never read that part of ToM. Interesting fluff indeed. BTW For Karsus your best bet is to check out AD&D - Forgotten Realms - Netheril, Empire of Magic it can be found in PDF form as well. His stats are on page 114. He is a level 41 Arcanist, which basically means he could turn the world inside out. (which he did)

[zagan]

Oh right I never read that part of ToM. Interesting fluff indeed. BTW For Karsus your best bet is to check out AD&D - Forgotten Realms - Netheril, Empire of Magic it can be found in PDF form as well. His stats are on page 114. He is a level 41 Arcanist, which basically means he could turn the world inside out. (which he did)

Karsus is already done, he end up being a wizard focus on dispelling because that's the ability he granted but I will try to have a look at the source, thanks for the info.

[Myth]

If I can summon anyone with the power level of a 41st level Arcanist I'm taking this prestige class :smallbiggrin: Think about spells of 10th, 11th and 12th level. He knew them and could cast them. Not sure how Mystra would react to him coming back and trying to cast one now.

Also remember he was pretty much bat**** insane.

[zagan]

If I can summon anyone with the power level of a 41st level Arcanist I'm taking this prestige class :smallbiggrin: Think about spells of 10th, 11th and 12th level. He knew them and could cast them. Not sure how Mystra would react to him coming back and trying to cast one now.

Also remember he was pretty much bat**** insane.

Nah, you only summon some sort of avatar/aspect max 18 to 20 Hd, but take a look if you want it's in my sig.