Help me match a character to a class!

[Shyftir]

So I'm trying to figure out what class/combo to use to make a character I have in mind work. I'll lay out the character and what Ideas I've had so far.

The character:
Tyne, is a brash, opinionated, somewhat dark character. He's not so much a gish as he is melee with a touch of magic. I want him to wear at least medium armor and use a two-handed weapon of some-kind. He's only going to be about level 5 and needs to fit in a party that is less than nice. He needs to be human or very close to human and sort of mysterious.

Ideas:
My first thought was Hexblade, but I quickly decided it wasn't for him. My next thought was melee Warlock, but that doesn't quite stick either because I definitely want an actual weapon to be used. I'd go with Psionic Warrior but I'm running one of those in another campaign with over-lapping players. I'm considering trying an Incarnum character, I have the book but haven't really used it before.

[Greenish]

Duskblade?

[GoatBoy]

Agreed on Duskblade. Either that, or one of the Tome of Battle characters.

Perhaps the Ardent if you still want to use psionics, but I know very little about them.

Possibly Dragon Shaman, if you haven't looked at them.

[Shyftir]

Ah, knew I missed something. I had thought about that but I want something a bit less overtly magical. I'm wanting enhancing magic more than blasting magic. I am working with some sort of weak stats. (Compared to a table full of people who rolled very well.)

[Kylarra]

Cleric headed into one of the more martial PrCs?

Obligatory mention of Crusader.

[SurlySeraph]

One level in Cloistered Cleric helps a lot of melee builds, depending on your domain choices and trading domains out for Devotion feats. Knowledge Devotion, Death Devotion, and perhaps the Pride domain sound like they'd work well for him. Plus that lets you use wands or scrolls of useful cleric spells, which can definitely come in handy.

1-2 levels in Warlock and not doing the Glaivelock thing can work well. Say, Darkness, Devil's Sight, and pick up Blend into Shadows for pretty much unlimited Hide in Plain Sight. Person Man explains it well here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57352)

[Telonius]

Outside of the box a bit ... how about an Artificer? There's nothing specifically "dark" or "light" about the mechanics, but you can play him however you want. It has the "touch of magic," and oodles of ways to buff his own melee.

Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer), perhaps?

[Keld Denar]

Swordsage and Warblade, especially Warblade, work out decent with marginal stats. You can get decent defenses, decent offenses, very little stat reliance if you don't focus on maneuver with saves (or if you focus on maneuvers with Str based saves like Stone Dragon, since Str will probably be your highest stat). Swordsage has the whole supernatural thing going on as well, without actual spellcasting ability.

Other than that, Ardent while poaching mostly PsyWar powers from the different mantles is probably your best bet. Conflict and Guardian are two mantles that have a lot of the standard PsyWar buffs. Might feel too much like your PsyWar though, since the main mechanic, the powers, will be mostly identical.

[Frenchy147]

Maybe an Artificer x/a good meelee class x

[Tvtyrant]

Druid1/Monk4 using Shillelagh on the quarterstaff to flurry?

[Ernir]

Factotum (Dungeonscape). Medium armor, a touch of magic, martial weapon proficiency.

You'll also get a bleeding boatload of skills in the deal.

[avr]

Binder going into Knight of the Sacred Seal, with a couple of levels in the martial class of your choice to speed entry & give you weapon proficiencies & other tricks. Darkness, melee, a touch of magic, weird habits when you make a bad binding - it's all there.

[Tvtyrant]

Binder going into Knight of the Sacred Seal, with a couple of levels in the martial class of your choice to speed entry & give you weapon proficiencies & other tricks. Darkness, melee, a touch of magic, weird habits when you make a bad binding - it's all there.

Binder; is there any class concept they can't be used for?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Binder; is there any class concept they can't be used for?

No. That was kind of the point.

[Shyftir]

Wow, guys thinks for all the suggestions. Some of them are pretty "out-there" that is involve new mechanics pretty far removed from core. Let me explain the party so that you can better understand the situation.

We have:
Human Monk - decent level of optimization, built to have very high AC.
Human Rogue - typical sneak attacking and skill monkey type, rolled great stats.
Human Sorc - Blasty type
Orc Druid - (Evil btw) played by a guy who builds high opt, but everybody knows he cheats (a.k.a. falsifies his rolls) so we just nerf his damage without telling him so.

I'm co-DMing and this character is going to be more of a plot device/occasional ally type. (I'm helping the main DM with mechanics and running monsters.)

So as you can see the group is pretty core/completes based. I don't want to throw anything too far off core at them.

[Elric VIII]

I rather like Warrior of Darkness from BoVD, it's not incredibly powerful but it gets some cool abilities, like adding +1 enhancements (including elemental damage) to your weapon for 1hr/level. You also get the special ability to make various oils/potions once per level that give you a permanent boost.

EDIT: After reading your last comment I think this class might fit in perfectly. You can take it immediately at level 6, so you start it right from the beginning of your game. The reqs are Evil, BAB 5, speak Abyssal or Infernal, and C(alchemy) 3, K (Arcana 3), and Spellcraft 1. They will most likely be cross for any martially oriented class, but it's only a few ranks in each.

[Tvtyrant]

So... Core only? Mine still works for that, but if you want a fighter/mage...

Have you thought about making an Arcane Trickster with Displacement fighting style? You essentially dump dex for strength, cast Master's Touch, Haste, Displacement, Heroism, etc. And then simply mangle the enemy from the front with a greatsword. Its not optimal but its rather fun; and the reason for Trickster instead of Eldritch Knight is Arcane Trickster actually has class abilities; you can always go invisible and then shred the enemy on the first round of battle with your sneak attack greatsword.

[Stormageddon]

Is he evil? What about a paladin variant? Slaughter, Freedom, or tyrant? Maybe a battle Sorc? Fighter/bard?

[Shyftir]

Maybe go battle sorc/sneak attack fighter, then go with arcane trickster?

[DungeonDelver]

My first recommendation would of course be Duskblade. I'd also recommend taking a look at the Dragon Shaman from the PHBII. It's got more subtle magical powers than ourtright.

I don't know anything about incarnum, so I can't make recommendations for or against it.

Spellsword PrC or something similar? I'm not sure what sort of gish PrC's there are, but I know there are ways to do it.

[Tvtyrant]

Maybe go battle sorc/sneak attack fighter, then go with arcane trickster?

That's a beautiful idea! You get to cast in light armor, get a better BaB and are essentially melee based. And considering you have a monk in your party you won't be falling behind anyone. I say go for it!

[Tael]

Orc Druid - (Evil btw) played by a guy who builds high opt, but everybody knows he cheats (a.k.a. falsifies his rolls) so we just nerf his damage without telling him so.


And you still play with him because... :smallconfused:

[DungeonDelver]

Simplest way to avoid cheaters is to demand everyone roll in full view of everyone else. I have a friend that used to get convenient critical hits, until the DM insisted he roll in front of him. Funny how that stopped happening...

[Lord.Sorasen]

Simplest way to avoid cheaters is to demand everyone roll in full view of everyone else. I have a friend that used to get convenient critical hits, until the DM insisted he roll in front of him. Funny how that stopped happening...

It always shocks me to learn this is even an issue. When my group has our sessions, we always roll right on the table. The idea of hiding rolls, I actually hadn't even considered it until reading about it on forum boards..

The other way (though it doesn't work for everything) is the point buy system for stats and an average for level up health.

Now, on topic... The psychic Warrior is my personal favorite, but if you wish to avoid that route...

Battle Sorcerer is one way to go. I think you specified wanting medium armor though, no? If that's the case the cleric isn't too terrible a class...

On another note, I'm not sure how it is in practice, but perhaps a shugenja (complete divine)? If you pick Earth as your favored Element you get some nice buff spells, or if you picked water and banned fire (as you already have a blaster, you stated), you could have buffs, utilities, and even maybe some level of healing, which is certainly worth considering. Plus I've never seen one recommended ever.

[DungeonDelver]

My group usually runs with a standard array or point buys, and a system where we alternate maximum and average health, so d10 would be 10,5,10,5, plus Con mod of course. It just evens out everyone and levels the ability score and HP playing field.

[Zaq]

I'm considering trying an Incarnum character, I have the book but haven't really used it before.

Try it. You'll be glad you did. A Law Incarnate or Evil Incarnate is a fine melee character with excellent self-enhancements through "being in touch with magic." (Don't be fooled into playing a Soulborn.)

[The Glyphstone]

I took one look at the description and thought 'Duskblade'. They've got some decent buff spells on their list, giving you flexibility towards that end, and a Channel Spell greatsword attack can really bring the pain if you need to. Bonus points for not needing to learn a new system, though Incarnate would also work and is awesome.

If you want to stick to core...Human Fighter 2/Sorc 4/Dragon Disciple X?

[DungeonDelver]

Dragon Disciple is a nice PrC. Not very 'powerful' so to speak, but it has delicious, delicious flavor and can be a fun class to play.

[Shyftir]

Another thought I had was to play a Hexblade but drop one of his class features and take a Duskblade-style spell progression with the hex-blade list.

Would that be a cheesy concept?


Also: Yes I've played a Duskblade before, which is one of the reasons I've not gone that route here, I'm trying to get a little outside my comfort zone, and I effin' love Duskblades. I've created a Dusk/War-blade JPM, I even made a Duskblade/Arcane Archer.

[grimbold]

warblade maybe but thinking of maneuvers as not just blademagic but normal magic

[Sception]

I've played some similar characters, and I'd start by echoing the recommendations of Warblade or Duskblade. But if they really don't work for you, I've played some vaguely similar character (martial with a hint of dark magic - usually necromantic in my case), and the following have all turned out reasonably cool and at least somewhat functional in game (in a non-optimized setting, mind you)

Hexblade into Dragon Disciple, possibly using some of the hexblade variant features from PHBII. Not the strongest character out there, but a lot of style. The Hexblade gets you into dragon disciple on a full BAB chassis with decent HP and proficiencies and no other hassle. The dragon Disciple provides stat boosts and wings. Definitely low on the optimization meter, but a lot of style points.

Bone Knight (PrC in Eberron: Five Nations). Necromantically themed full BAB divine caster PRC that a paladin can enter at level 5 or a cleric with a paladin or fighter dip (for BAB and ride skill) can enter at level 6. 10 levels, 9 level caster progression, steed, undead oriented class features, special bone armor and weapons, keeps paladin bonuses despite alignment shift to neutral or evil. Very cool, if you want a death knight kind of character.

Blackguard if you want the core only version of the Bone Knight. Less good (both in terms of class abilities and alignment - BK can be neutral but BG is evil only) but still kinda cool and functional enough for casual play.

Soulborn. Magic of Incarnum class (Incarnum users shape ambient soul energy to create spell effects that bind to magic item slots, then power them with your own soul energy). Melee oriented, alignment themed, some magical power, but mostly in the form of buffs with variable strengths based on how much of your energy you have devoted to a particular meld at a time. A lot of day to day variety as you can shape completely different melds the next day. Look at necrocarnum melds for a dark tone, particularly necrocarnum circlet once you hit level... 8 I think? where you can bind the circlet to your head chakra. This allows you to create a 'necrocarnum zombie', which is smart, strong, fast, and expendable - perfect attributes for a steed if you ever want to go mounted. Other necrocarnum melds drain life from those who lie dieing around you or charge your weapon with dark energy.

[true_shinken]

I'd go with an Artificer/Melee class build. There is one in my game and he is awesome.

[Eloel]

Human Monk - decent level of optimization, built to have very high AC.
Human Rogue - typical sneak attacking and skill monkey type, rolled great stats.
Human Sorc - Blasty type
Orc Druid - (Evil btw) played by a guy who builds high opt, but everybody knows he cheats (a.k.a. falsifies his rolls) so we just nerf his damage without telling him so.


While I do not know of the player in question, it could be that he's an optimizer playing a druid in a party with a Monk and a blaster Sorcerer. Seriously, without ANY cheating, he easily has the potential to be more effective than the rest of the party combined.

Then again, he MIGHT be cheating, don't know the player, after all.

[Shyftir]

Well, he tries to build high-opt. He actually gets stuff way wrong and regularly stacks things that don't stack, etc. And he still falsifies rolls. In a party that always ends up very BA.

The thing is he's my friend and stuff outside of DnD if it was just the DnD I'd have stopped hanging with him long ago. Also it's his first Druid he doesn't really know how to "break one." He usually plays melee which means high-opt is a relative term...

I'm thinking the Hexblade to Dragon Disciple thing sounds workable.