Bandits in Fantasy

[FoE]

I want you to think about every fantasy novel you've ever read, every D&D game you've ever taken part in and every fantasy-themed video game you've ever played. Think about all the opponents the hero has fought. Recall all the times they were merrily strolling down the highway, when SUDDENLY they were attacked by a group of generic human warriors springing out of the bushes.

They were probably called bandits, or perhaps they were referred to as brigands, outlaws or highwaymen. And they're always the same group of generic human warrior-types; even though most groups of goblins or orcs that rob people could be considered "bandits," the term never applies to them. (On occassion the "bandit clan" may have one or two members of other species with them to provide colour.)

I've searched my memory and determined that the "encounter with bandits" comes up A LOT in fantasy, generally as some minor obstacle that the heroes swiftly deal with.

"Bandits" show up even when there is a multitude of other fantastical creatures that the heroes could encounter, but instead they always run into these guys while passing through some dreary forest.

I understand the historical reasons why common folk resorted to brigandry, but they never had to deal with friggin' monsters roaming the countryside looking to munch on some tasty humans. And they never had to worry about their targets turning out to be high-level wizards or dragons in disguise. In that context, brigandry makes even less sense — you'd think there was an easier way to make a living — and yet still you have scores of people taking up the bandit lifestyle.

My question is: why the hell are these guys so ubiquitous in fantasy? Do they have some trade union or something stretching across multiple realities that monitors the progress of adventuring parties? Where the hell do they come from?

[dgnslyr]

Because it's convenient?

[FoE]

Or is it just lazy?

I get why the generic human bandits show up in settings where there are only humans. But in a world where there is a menagerie of fantasy creatures, why's it always bandits who show up to annoy the heroes?

[Violet Octopus]

I guess they're common because some people don't like oversaturating their world with monsters, and bandits are the most obvious humanoid random encounter.

They're easier to make into comic relief, many monsters can't speak Common (or at all). The one time bandits turned up in a D&D game for me was in an entirely queer male group with some rather campy characters, naturally the bandits were a little homophobic and we had great fun using scorching ray. OK, the sorcerer had fun using scorching ray, I sat around being useless.

They're also a go-to for making an easy (if cliched) ambiguous encounter, i.e. are they evil brigands or Robin Hood types?

It's true, they make little sense in a world with lots of adventurers and polymorphed dragons, but I prefer settings where adventurers are few and dragons aloof and mysterious, so it makes better sense. Also, if you're a bandit solely to feed yourself or rebuild your home after a natural disaster, you only really need to win once against a party with magic items and retire.

[Lord Raziere]

who knows? I'm planning on making the protagonist a bandit, focus on what its like to be that kind of brigand person in that kind of world, what it really means when there are magic and monsters around- you'd probably resort to magic yourself to counter the people using magic to protect their caravan as well as to defend yourself from the monsters, use whatever resource you have to survive.

in fact the entire civilized world would probably resort to magic to fight off the monsters around them, who after all are themselves using magic, and things would escalate from there, with magic speeding up the growth of technology and generally making things go completely out of control.

edit: besides, fantasy heroes are arguably a form of bandit anyways :smalltongue:

[FoE]

edit: besides, fantasy heroes are arguably a form of bandit anyways :smalltongue:

More like a tomb-robber.

[Violet Octopus]

edit: besides, fantasy heroes are arguably a form of bandit anyways :smalltongue:
This. Your village gets razed by orcs/remorhaz/nixies, you lose everything except your sword and shield, and you have two options: bandit or "adventurer".

[Lord Raziere]

More like a tomb-robber.

eh, give the bandits some anonymity and some spelunking gear then give them few days without any caravans to attack and you'd get pretty much the same thing.

edit;


This. Your village gets razed by orcs/remorhaz/nixies, you lose everything except your sword and shield, and you have two options: bandit or "adventurer".

and adventurers function more as some sort oddly high-paying mercenary, and the difference between mercenary and bandit is the availability of legal jobs where killing is involved, lots of jobs with killing? your a mercenary. not a lot of jobs? your a bandit.

[warty goblin]

Because some authors suffer under the delusion that constant action is necessary to keep the reader interested. A pointless counter with utterly disposable villains is obviously the answer, and what better target than violent criminals? They don't require any creativity in terms of motive or goal, they provide a nice 'soft' target for the hero to experience their first combat, or else function as a pushover for a more hardened group, and best of all nobody ever even seems to notice they're gone.

(I once read a book that had, I think three separate bandit encounters. It was every bit as bad as it sounds, although at some point it became bad enough to reach morbidly fascinating).

In cRPGs it's obvious. The only two minute-to-minute activities those titles can make engaging is fighting and talking (and in most cases one of these is pretty marginal). Too much of one in a row is monotonous, so it's time for the other! Whether providing a bit of action as a 'random' encounter, or fodder for an easy to write sidequest, the bandit fills the vital role of medium difficulty combat encounter that doesn't require a huge amount of justification. Even better nobody is surprised when they find a bunch of weapons and money on dead bandits; it's a lot less convincing on wolves.




and adventurers function more as some sort oddly high-paying mercenary, and the difference between mercenary and bandit is the availability of legal jobs where killing is involved, lots of jobs with killing? your a mercenary. not a lot of jobs? your a bandit.
Better distinction: A bandit asks for your money or your life. An adventurer kills you then takes your stuff. All the first needs to do to become the second is to stop asking.

[An Enemy Spy]

Very few people in the world tend to be powerful mages capable of summoning a horde of creatures and warriors trained from birth to be the deadliest killers on the planet. Most people will surrender without a fight because they would rather lose their money than their lives. Bandits in stories are just unlucky enough to run afoul of the one group of ultra strong fighters that happen to be in the area.

[Fjolnir]

@Lord Raziere: Make the character charismatic and lazy, he resorted to the life of a highwayman because his parents were both toilsome near sub-subsistance farmers and he didn't want that for himself. His "base of operations" is near an encampment of goblins who use him and his small band to go to nearby villages to trade their cut of the booty for various supplies they cannot purchase or easily forge on their own. In return they provide him a level of protection from the more vicious monsters in the deeper parts of the wood...
This has all the elements of a bandit, and explains how he and his small band aren't murdered by things that normally hide in the vasts beyond civilization and such...

The difference between adventurer and bandit is the amount of effort one is willing to spend working for wealth, both are pretty much lazy tasks but bandit also involves less travel time.

[warty goblin]

Very few people in the world tend to be powerful mages capable of summoning a horde of creatures and warriors trained from birth to be the deadliest killers on the planet. Most people will surrender without a fight because they would rather lose their money than their lives. Bandits in stories are just unlucky enough to run afoul of the one group of ultra strong fighters that happen to be in the area.

Actually, one would expect a fair number of relentlessly trained fighters in a quasi-medieval world. We are after all talking about a time period that had at least one social class entirely dedicated to the pursuit of arms, and very large numbers of professional soldiers. Remember one of the great things about the Crusades was that it solved the problem of what to do with the large numbers of exceedingly well trained, equipped, bored and otherwise unemployable knights and men-at-arms sitting around Europe and occasionally setting villages on fire for basically the hell of it.

[An Enemy Spy]

Actually, one would expect a fair number of relentlessly trained fighters in a quasi-medieval world. We are after all talking about a time period that had at least one social class entirely dedicated to the pursuit of arms, and very large numbers of professional soldiers. Remember one of the great things about the Crusades was that it solved the problem of what to do with the large numbers of exceedingly well trained, equipped, bored and otherwise unemployable knights and men-at-arms sitting around Europe and occasionally setting villages on fire for basically the hell of it.

Yes, but they paled in comparison to the numbers of filthy peasants there were at the time.

[TheSummoner]

No one ever tells stories about filthy peasants =P

[Shyftir]

Actually most works of fantasy are about filthy peasants, [dramatic horn] who become something more![/dramatic horn]

[TheSummoner]

But thats the point, they aren't filthy peasants anymore. They're epic heros going around killing trolls and destroying dragons.

I mean stories about filthy peasants who stay filthy peasants.

[Darklord Bright]

There's nothing inherently lazy about bandit encounters unless they're done badly. Arguably, just throwing a random monster out there and going "READY? FIGHT!" is just as lazy, the only difference is the time spent describing limbs and appendages.

If done well, bandits can supply a good theme for a world or supply a "Human" element to the encounter-of-the-day. Monsters are essentially animals, and bears aren't as interesting as the park ranger who looks after them, if you get what I'm saying. A bear is just a bear - a park ranger has a character.

That is, of course, assuming it's played well. Which it rarely is.

[V'icternus]

If done well, bandits can supply a good theme for a world or supply a "Human" element to the encounter-of-the-day. Monsters are essentially animals, and bears aren't as interesting as the park ranger who looks after them, if you get what I'm saying. A bear is just a bear - a park ranger has a character.

What if they're smarter than the average bear?

[FoE]

What if they're smarter than the average bear?

Or werebears?

[Kobold-Bard]

No one ever tells stories about filthy peasants =P

Joe Wood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign) would beg to differ.

[Burner28]

I My question is: why the hell are these guys so ubiquitous in fantasy? Do they have some trade union or something stretching across multiple realities that monitors the progress of adventuring parties? Where the hell do they come from?

There is a lot of things that are common in fantasy, such as snarky thieves, evil species, dragons, destiny, etc. I am not against many concepts of fantasy tropes, though the execution of it can be badly written. Then again you can say the same thing of anything else. So are you against the concept of bandits, or are you just against the execution?

[warty goblin]

Yes, but they paled in comparison to the numbers of filthy peasants there were at the time.

They are, however, substantially more likely to turn to armed robbery. If nothing else they have the weapons and training. There were substantial periods in the Hundred Years War where various mercenaries turned more or less bandit, and for quite a while did far more damage to the French than the English.

[Prime32]

No mention of Slayers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QdtEXexKns)? Bandits show up so often they almost seem to be a species, though part of this is the main character seeking out bandits to steal their loot.

Then there's some post-apocalyptic settings where encounters with bandits can drive the plot.

[Psyren]

Joe Wood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign) beg to differ.

FTFY :smallwink:


I understand the historical reasons why common folk resorted to brigandry, but they never had to deal with friggin' monsters roaming the countryside looking to munch on some tasty humans. And they never had to worry about their targets turning out to be high-level wizards or dragons in disguise. In that context, brigandry makes even less sense — you'd think there was an easier way to make a living — and yet still you have scores of people taking up the bandit lifestyle.

DMG "economics" aside, what could be easier* than banditry? You can't take on all those monsters without gear, therefore you need to rob other travelers/loot their bodies to get some.

*and similarly lucrative

[Kobold-Bard]

FTFY :smallwink:

...

That was bad and you should feel bad for doing it :smallcool:

[SPoD]

In any live-action movie or TV series, bandits are cheaper to put on screen than any fantasy monster, even orcs. All you need to do is hire some extras and give them props. Since fantasy movies and TV shows have been around for years, the novels currently being written have been influenced as much by them as by earlier books, so they treat it as part and parcel of the fantasy genre. And D&D draws from movies, TV, AND current novels.

Also, keep in mind that for most non-D&D fantasy works, monsters are not popping out of every bush. Monsters are rare, special, and powerful--the climax of a huge quest. Often, you need to find special weapons or something to even fight the monster, and who do you fight on the way to get the special weapons? Bandits. I mean, look at something like the Conan stories: there are monsters in his world, but they don't jump up every time he walks down a path. Most of his foes are simply evil people, of which bandits make up a portion.

[Psyren]

Bandits are also a good way of reflecting the state of the setting. Consider the Wheel of Time; bandits became more and more prevalent as the world spiraled towards ruin, reflecting the increased disorder of a land preparing for all-out war whose leadership was in constant flux.

Conversely, extremely ordered areas (e.g. those under Seanchan control) displayed a noticeable lack of banditry, even in formerly cutthroat cities like Ebou Dar.

[Grumman]

I understand the historical reasons why common folk resorted to brigandry, but they never had to deal with friggin' monsters roaming the countryside looking to munch on some tasty humans. And they never had to worry about their targets turning out to be high-level wizards or dragons in disguise.
Sure they did, it's just that the brigands were called "pirates", and the wizards were called "armed merchantmen".

Hell, some Somali pirates have been captured or killed after attacking undisguised warships.

[FoE]

So are you against the concept of bandits, or are you just against the execution?

The latter. I'm totally accepting that in fantasy worlds where humans are the only prevalent humanoid species that the hero will encounter bandits. The Fable series is a good example. (There are hobbes and hollow men, but it's good to switch it up a little.) But it annoys me that the generic bandit groups pop up in other fictional works and even D&D games where there is a plethora of other creatures that the heroes could encounter.

[Mordar]

The latter. I'm totally accepting that in fantasy worlds where humans are the only prevalent humanoid species that the hero will encounter bandits. The Fable series is a good example. (There are hobbes and hollow men, but it's good to switch it up a little.) But it annoys me that the generic bandit groups pop up in other fictional works and even D&D games where there is a plethora of other creatures that the heroes could encounter.

I think you should consider that in many fantasy settings, and particularly many geopolitical regions of those settings, the only prevalent humanoid species will be (near)human. Successful, ordered countries will not suffer orc or goblin bands to "breed up", but will still have an enormous underclass that might choose/be forced into banditry. So, in Cormyr it's far easier to be a human bandit "tribe" and survive then to be a goblin "bandit" tribe...so adventurers of the lower levels (you know...that have to travel on the roads instead of teleport, fly, gate, etc.) are far more likely to encounter the rough-n-tumble (near)humans than a rampaging band of gobbos. On the frontiers or the Moonshae Islands it might be a different story.

As far as the risk to the bandits of attacking the extremely powerful mage or the mighty warrior...well, the bandits can always choose to sit that one out. Assuming said high-level is actually traveling via road (see above), the bandits can "case" the mark and decide "An extremely attractive woman alone in robes on this road? Nope, she's either way too tough to take or she's insane." or "He's got an axe that's the size of a tree, and armor that's seen use. Let's let him pass. Plus, I think his horse has fangs." They can be dumb...but they don't have to be stupid. This is no different than a modern day pickpocket or muggers passing on certain marks because they look too aware or able to defend themselves.

Finally, sometimes its fun to have the mighty hero attacked by the the dumb *and* stupid. I'm reminded of a Buffy episode where the group is debating how to save the world and Buffy hears a commotion in the alley, goes out and finds a single run-of-the-mill vamp and is surprised that it hadn't heard of the Slayer and knew to flee. It's the same kind of thing...once in a while, Conan gets jumped and has the opportunity to pummel the chumps.

Anyway, YMMV...but I think there's both tradition and logic to support the frequency of (near)human banditry in the tales of high fantasy. Just because its a cliche doesn't mean its lazy, bad or poorly executed. Overuse of those same bandits without reason or in an inappropriate area of the fantasy world, however, can easily be dull and unfun.

- M

[J.Gellert]

Justified in Baldur's Gate, where the bandits are a part of the big bad's plan all along.

Wait, something is wrong... this isn't TVTropes...

[gkathellar]

Bandits show up because they let you show off a character's murderation skills while not necessarily portraying them as horrible killing machines. When the hero effortlessly cuts down five or six professional highwaymen, you know he means business but since he's just defending himself, you don't know whether he's a bad dude.

Or they show up because you're reading The Name of the Wind and bandits are actually being used to establish atmosphere and relevant setting details.


But thats the point, they aren't filthy peasants anymore. They're epic heros going around killing trolls and destroying dragons.

I mean stories about filthy peasants who stay filthy peasants.

So ... Catcher in the Rye?

[JonestheSpy]

You know, I rather think the OP's initial premise is rather flawed. I'm curious as to which works of fantasy that bandits appear in that seem so inappropriate.

And if you're just talking about bandits in games, then doesn't this thread belong in the RPG section?

[Ragitsu]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3360352&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post384270289

[Tam_OConnor]

I blame Water Margin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin) for popularizing bandits in the first place. Between them and Robin Hood, most of the roguish-inspiration is made up of technical bandits.

[An Enemy Spy]

Bandits show up because they let you show off a character's murderation skills while not necessarily portraying them as horrible killing machines. When the hero effortlessly cuts down five or six professional highwaymen, you know he means business but since he's just defending himself, you don't know whether he's a bad dude.

Or they show up because you're reading The Name of the Wind and bandits are actually being used to establish atmosphere and relevant setting details.



So ... Catcher in the Rye?

Not the right genre

[Lord Raziere]

Not the right genre

yea stories of filthy peasants who remain filthy peasants are....

......

......

.....wait......searching.....searching......

oh right. A Song of Ice and Fire. We do have the reverse though: a princess becoming a filthy bandit.

though A Song of Ice and Fire also shows what happens when peasants march off to war, fight for a while until they become bandits and such for various multiple reasons. doesn't make any heroes though.