Knockback rules for standard D&D 3.5/Pathfinder?

[Ragitsu]

Before a certain Feat gets mentioned, let me just cut you off and say that I am aware of it.

What i'm looking for a standardized set of rules for D&D 3.5/Pathfinder in which you can calculate how far something gets send flying after being hit by a powerful enough blow.

[Starbuck_II]

Before a certain Feat gets mentioned, let me just cut you off and say that I am aware of it.

What i'm looking for a standardized set of rules for D&D 3.5/Pathfinder in which you can calculate how far something gets send flying after being hit by a powerful enough blow.

There isn't as it isn't a standard thing. There is a feat Powerful Blow that adds it though.

[WarrenZig]

I'm not all that great at martial skills but as far as i know without using "The Feat", some abilities from ToB, or certain monster ability there is no standard rule for a knockback hit. Which is why it's a feat in the monster manual.

Don't know pathfinder though.

[Ragitsu]

Houserules are fine, of course.

[WarrenZig]

Only homebrew knockback i know is tied to power attack.

Basically if you succeed a power attack you make a bull rush attempt and add the amount you subtracted from your attack when you made the power attack to your strength check, double the bonus for a 2 hand weapon, doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity, and you don't move with them.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

There also exists the feat Awesome Blow. For most big monsters you could simply swap out some of their likely-useless feats for it and its prerequisites, and you have a pretty simple rule. Standard action (so, one attack) reflex save (DC = damage dealt) or get knocked back 10' and fall prone.

[n00b killa]

You could homebrew 5' knockback for every 20 points of DMG of the attack (Maeby 5' every 15 dmg for blunt weapons).

But there would be, like, a millon exceptions.

[Coidzor]

Well, with Knockback you do roll a bull-rush check, right? Just let it move the opponent as far as the bull-rush check would allow without requiring the bullrusher to follow.

That's what crossed my mind for it, anyway.

[Incanur]

This is 3.5 D&D. You need a feat to do anything. You're lucky you can put on your clothes in the morning without special training. :smallannoyed:

[Starbuck_II]

This is 3.5 D&D. You need a feat to do anything. You're lucky you can put on your clothes in the morning without special training. :smallannoyed:

You only get the first set of clothing free: I don't think you ever change clothes. You cast prestigidation to clean all dirt/grime off (faster than a bath).

[Lateral]

Eyeball it. If the baddie just power attacked for 2d6+ridiculous damage, make the squishy go flying like 20 feet. If the meatshield just power attacked for 2d6+ludicrously high damage but he's fighting a purple worm, then don't make any knockback. Also, definitely let them choose direction.

[Incanur]

You only get the first set of clothing free: I don't think you ever change clothes.

:smallfrown: I guess I'd better homebrew a feat for that. Do you think it'd be competitive with TWF or should I extend it into a long chain for balance?

[JaronK]

Standard rule: you don't get knocked back, because frankly it would get a bit silly VERY fast.

If you put in a house rule that does this, expect a few of your players to get the hint and play chargers, who become far more powerful (since everyone's getting knocked clear of the enemy all the time anyway). Also, Wings of Flurry is now "you can't act, you're horribly damaged, AND you're thrown really far away."

JaronK

[Incanur]

Anyone who wants the effect can play a goliath or whatever and take Knockback, so it's not as if adding non-feat rules for this would change everything.

[Slipperychicken]

Isn't this what Bull Rush rules are for? Realistically, smacking a guy REALLY HARD doesn't throw him across the room, it just turns him into goo. Rush = opposed strength checks; for every five you win by, you knock your opponent back 5 feet.

(3.5) Existing Mechanics For what You Want:
The Brutal Surge weapon enhancement (MiC 30) lets you knock guys backward with a regular attack 3 + cha/day. Use with The Feat Who Must Not Be Named, in combination with shock trooper and Rampaging Bull Rush for two rush attemps, both with double distance (hooray for diagonals!) for four times the distance a normal bull rush would get you, AND your opponent is prone. Snag an extra 4d6 with Dungeoncrasher for some real fun. Now I know there's a feat somewhere which lets you take points off power attack and add them to the strength check...

^ Houserule? you could theoretically just give everyone the effects of The Feat for free, adding 1/4 damage or something like that to the opposed check. the only problem I see with this is battles which begin to look more like billiards than D&D.

[Incanur]

Realistically, smacking a guy REALLY HARD doesn't throw him across the room, it just turns him into goo.

As someone who has personally gone flying from a powerful impact, I beg to differ. When that car turned left into me and my bicycle I didn't end up as goo, though the crash did break a few important bones and inflict one particularly nasty cut requiring a bunch of stitches. Less fortunate automobile victims sometime sail many dozens of feet. (I have little idea how far I went, though definitely not that far.) It's a matter of momentum. Massive slower moving objects have and transfer more than less massive fast ones.

[Lateral]

...Which is why I said that thing about the monster vs. the fighter. It's probably best to decide based on their respective sizes- maybe a two-size-difference minimum?

[Slipperychicken]

As someone who has personally gone flying from a powerful impact, I beg to differ. When that car turned left into me and my bicycle I didn't end up as goo, though the crash did break a few important bones and inflict one particularly nasty cut requiring a bunch of stitches. Less fortunate automobile victims sometime sail many dozens of feet. (I have little idea how far I went, though definitely not that far.) It's a matter of momentum. Massive slower moving objects have and transfer more than less massive fast ones.

It makes perfect sense to go flying from a car crash. In D&D terms the car in that case was essentially a Large hunk of metal doing a bull rush attempt and getting a circumstance bonus from how fast it was moving. You flew away, as expected, and took 10-20 damage combined from falling rules and impact, and were dropped into the negatives (I'm assuming you have *maybe* 2-3HD and were KO'd).

Big things hit smaller things and knock them back. this is not in question, and there are even rules for it.

But the real question is whether a bear is going to do the same thing with its claws. Whether a creature, standing still, hitting you with a magic greatsword is going to end up giving you a nasty scar or tossing you across the room. Now that I think about it though, it makes sense to knock enemies back with some types of damage more than others, so you could make a case for a creature a size category larger hitting with bludgeoning or explosions, but not so much for piercing or slashing.

[Incanur]

You flew away, as expected, and took 10-20 damage combined from falling rules and impact, and were dropped into the negatives (I'm assuming you have *maybe* 2-3HD and were KO'd).

I couldn't walk for mechanical reasons (the broken ankle) but I remained completely conscious. I even managed to carry on a limited conversation between the screams.


Big things hit smaller things and knock them back. this is not in question, and there are even rules for it.

A normal bull rush requires moving with the target, doesn't it?


Now that I think about it though, it makes sense to knock enemies back with some types of damage more than others, so you could make a case for a creature a size category larger hitting with bludgeoning or explosions, but not so much for piercing or slashing.

Agreed. The image of a punch sending a character flying appeals to me because I'm a comics geek. High-level D&D combat resembles a superhero adventure in many ways already so why not go with that feel? :smallsmile: