Combining Inspire Courage + Mystic Ranger

[Khatoblepas]

I've been trying to hit a nice balance for a build I'm making to reenvision a character I want to bring back, that combines the rangery goodness of Mystic Ranger (with all of it's delicious ranger and wizard spells, hello SoTAO) and Dragonfire Inspiration, which would be wonderful to then combine with some archery. Unfortunately, I've run aground as to how to combine them without diluting them to the point of uselessness, as optimization at this level is more delicate than "Get 9th level spells and +16 BAB". I don't mind not having 9th level spells, since at the moment I'm playing a wizard and boy, a lower powered build might be a healthy change of pace.

We run pretty lenient on the cheese, to the point where I'm playing a Shadowcraft Mage and noone is batting an eyelid. We also regularily refluff things, so everything is allowed, so long as it doesn't blatantly break the game in half and make it not fun for everyone.

My half-formed build is:

CG Unseelie Half-Fey Silverbrow Human
Cloistered Cleric (Planning, Elf) 1/Mystic Ranger 5/Prestige Savage Divine Bard 3/Prestige Paladin of Freedom 1/Crusader 1/Ruby knight Vindicator 5

1) Persistant Spell
B) Apprentice (Entertainer)
Flaw) Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell)
Flaw) Mounted Combat?
C) Extend Spell
C2) Point Blank Shot
3) Words of Creation
R3) Rapid Shot
6) Sword of the Arcane Order
9) Song of the Heart
12) Dragonfire Inspiration
15) Song of the White Raven
+ Vest of Legend and relevant items.

Swap Animal Companion for a monkey familiar, give him a crossbow/shortbow and bracers of archery and let him plink away for some measly extra damage + IC.

Note: Was trapped inside the fey dimension for an inordinate amount of time, longer than it was on the outside. Had enough time to rebuild himself better, stronger, and more efficiently than ever before. Had adventures etc etc etc excuse for having levelled up and changed classes from pure bard.


Relevant notes:
- Starting at at least level 15. The original character came in at 10 and fell out of the campaign after being trapped in an extradimensional fey grove.
- All WoTC material is allowed, Dragon Compendium / Magazine is allowed, and some 3rd party material so long as it's readable. I'm not comfortable with using 3rd party material myself, it makes me uncomfortable.
- As far as I know, homebrew is allowed so long as the DM okays it first.
- Low wealth, so probably wealth equalling to a level 10-12 character.
- Flaws, Traits, etc are okay.


I want to focus on:
- My ranger spellcasting first. For relevant buffs and magical backup. Getting the bard and paladin spell lists both would be pretty badass.
- Inspire Courage - as much as I can get. The party is mostly melee, or likes to mix it up in melee, so getting this high is the second priority. I just can't find a way to get enough + to my IC or enough bardic musics per day.
- Archery. With Dragonfire Inspiration, I should be able to plink out some significant damage. I don't want to go TWF this time since the battlefield is already pretty full of melee guys (Barbarian and Paladin types), and we don't have any way of dealing with threats at range without expending a lot of resources. Maybe with Hank's Bow this should be less of a problem.

All in all, I am aware I am probably stretching myself thin here, but I want to see if I can make it work.

Any suggestions?

[Akal Saris]

Heh..."Prestige Savage Divine Bard"...I like your creativity in combining variants :P

I don't know...I think the build might be trying to do too much at once. I'd drop Crusader and RKV and go for some other full BAB PrC that will advance spell-casting, like that Ranger PrC in BoED.

It needs some more ranged attack feats too - Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, and Woodland Archer would all be very useful. You could probably drop sword of the white raven, you should have plenty of other swift actions to use anyhow.

If you're going Prestige paladin, you might want to figure out how Battle Blessing (CC) interacts with your spells - are they all auto-quickened now?

[Darrin]

Hmm. Tricky... I'm not sure how effective it is to add only 1 level of Crusader and then RKV. Well, OK, the RKV is incredibly effective, but that's just RKV for you. RKV doesn't help with Inspire Courage or Song of the White Raven. Only one level of Crusader counts towards Inspire Courage, so spending a feat on Song of the White Raven is a bit of a waste. I don't know how to fit RKV into an Inspire Courage build... you may have to leave that out.

Consider:

Cloistered Cleric 1/Mystic Ranger 4/Prestige Paladin 10+

At ECL 6 or 9, take the From Smite to Song feat (Champions of Valor). This lets you covert Smite Evil attempts into Inspire Courage. This slows down you spell progression a bit, but you still get 5th level Mystic Ranger/SotAO spells around ECL 11. If you've got enough spellcasting, you can go into Crusader and add those levels with Song of the White Raven. You can add more smite attemps with Extra Smiting.

Or... actually, you might want to slip two levels of Ordained Champion in there. This adds the War domain spells and Weapon Focus: Longbow. (You can also convert your other domains into fighter feats, so you can avoid the awkwardness of trying to explain how a silverbrow human got the Elf domain). At 2nd level, you can convert turn attempts into Smite Attempts, which means you can save your feat slots for ranged feats. Extra Turning can be added as one of your domains, or taken instead of Extra Smiting. Or just buy some nightsticks and you'll never run out of turning/smites/inspire courage.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if Ordained Champion levels add to your effective bard level for inspire courage. They are added to your turn attemps, but the text of From Smite to Song says "your effective bard level is equal to your paladin level". Ordained Champion appears to treat your paladin level on a smite as equal to your effective turning level (which would be Cleric + Prestige Paladin + Ordained Champion), but I'm not sure effective turning level = effective paladin levels. The text says: "you deal extra damage equal to your total effective turning or rebuking level" and "Except as noted here, this ability functions like the paladin's smite evil ability". Normally, a paladin's extra damage on a smite = paladin level, but Ordained Champion's Smite ability just doesn't quite say that explicitly.

Initiate of Milil (Champions of Valor) might work instead of From Smite to Song, but it's not clear if this feat gives you bardic music ability by itself or if you need bardic music from somewhere else. If so, then you don't need From Smite to Song. If not, then a 1-level bard dip + lots of Prestige Paladin should work just fine.

Are the deity requirements being handwaved? You've got Cloistered Cleric assuming some sort of Elven deity, Sword of the Arcane Order assumes Mystra or Azuth, and From Smite to Song/Initiate of Milil assumes Milil. Not to mention RKV (Wee-Jas).

[Khatoblepas]

*good advice*


Are the deity requirements being handwaved? You've got Cloistered Cleric assuming some sort of Elven deity, Sword of the Arcane Order assumes Mystra or Azuth, and From Smite to Song/Initiate of Milil assumes Milil. Not to mention RKV (Wee-Jas).

Yeah, rigorous refluffing is in session, and we never really use deities anyway.

How about...

CG Unseelie Half-Fey Silverbrow Human
Mystic Ranger 7/Cloistered Cleric (War, Elf) 1/Prestige Savage Divine Bard 3/Prestige Paladin of Freedom 4
1) Dynamic Priest
B) Apprentice (Entertainer)
Flaw) Precise Shot
Flaw) Mounted Combat
R2) Track
3) Words of Creation
R3:Endurance:DCS) Flyby Attack
R3) Rapid Shot
C) Weapon Focus (Longbow)
C2) Point Blank Shot
C3) Knowledge Devotion
6) Sword of the Arcane Order
Bard 3) Song of the Heart (swapped from Inspire Competence)
R7) Manyshot
9) Woodland Archer
12) Dragonfire Inspiration
15) Initiate of Milil
Otygh Hole:IronWill:DCS) Doomspeak
Inspire Courage:
C1+B3+P4+VoL5 = Effective Bard Level 13 = +3 base
Inspirational Boost +1
Badge of Valor +1
Words of Creation x 2
Total attack / damage = +5/+5 or +8/+8 with WoC
Dragonfire Inspiration gives +8d6. Is this slightly overpowered, I wonder?


Items:
Vest of Legends (+5 Bard level)
Bracers of Archery
Badge of Valor

Wanted Item:
Elvencraft Dragonbone Energy Footbow.

Extra Spells:
0 - create water, cure minor wounds, flare, guidance, know direction, light, mending, purify food and drink, resistance and virtue.
1st - harmony
2nd - dispel silence
3rd - reveille
5th - awaken, baleful polymorph, cure critical wounds, control winds, summon natures ally V and wall of thorns
All Ranger Spells
All Paladin Spells

DCS = Dark Chaos Shuffle

[Darrin]

I don't think you need Precise Shot if you can add it to your bow (+1 weapon enhancement, MIC).

It feels like you have too many levels of Mystic Ranger... I think all you need is 4. If you really need Manyshot, you can pick that up with a dip (Fighter, Eldritch Knight, etc.) and then use those other 2 levels for something that counts towards Inspire Courage.

Woodland Archer probably isn't necessary. You might want to consider replacing it with something you're more likely to use every round. There are swift-action spells that can negate concealment and range penalties. Moving Sniper isn't really necessary, either... you can already attack + move + hide with a -20 penalty without the feat (assuming you still meet the cover/concealment requirement). Heck, you can even full attack + 5' step + hide with a -20 penalty.

If you're already using Dark Chaos Shuffle, wouldn't it make more sense to use Forestlord Elf (four bonus feats) than Silverbrow Human (one bonus feat)?

And yeah, +8d6 Dragonfire Inspiration damage on every attack in the party is pretty obscene. I assume your DM is approving/accomodating a lot of this, but be aware he'll have to really ramp up his encounters to make them more challenging... if he overpowers his encounters as heavily as you overpower your characters, you're not really gaining anything. Is the rest of the party as heavily optimized?

[Khatoblepas]

And yeah, +8d6 Dragonfire Inspiration damage on every attack in the party is pretty obscene. I assume your DM is approving/accomodating a lot of this, but be aware he'll have to really ramp up his encounters to make them more challenging... if he overpowers his encounters as heavily as you overpower your characters, you're not really gaining anything. Is the rest of the party as heavily optimized?

There's a lot of variance in the party. About half of the party is very optimized (the barbarian and the psion show the most aptitude, the cleric and the sorcerer are more laid back but still contribute) and the party paladin seems to have a talent for reverse optimizing (as in, making himself as weak as possible... even when people try to help him to be a little more useful he seems to make tactically unsound decisions.). Hopefully the inspire courage should help him contribute a little more. Even without DFI, +8 is a nice buff that isn't too overpowering. We seem to have trouble hitting some enemies at our level due to the lack of wealth. The buffs are required, since they replace what we'd usually buy with our WBL.

The reason why I'm using DCS more sparingly than I should be is... I kind of need the wealth spent on the spells elsewhere. And, I don't want to shuffle too much. It feels like cheating. But now that Precise Shot and Woodland Archer have been proven not necessary, I could probably drop them and juggle around my other feats instead of DCSing my bonus feats.