The BBEG "Party"

[Keinnicht]

So, I'm working on my BBEG and his "party" of major cohorts, lieutenants, second-in-command, etc.

I was hoping you guys could take a look and advise me.

The BBEG:

Human Favored Soul

Former Commoner who ended up stumbling across a lost artifact and becoming the chosen of the God of Undead to bring Worldwide Necromantic Devastation (TM)

Second-In-Command

Male Elf Double-Evolved Lich Mystic Theurge

Cleric of the same god as BBEG, and claims he has been since the god first ascended to divinity. Which is possible, given how fricken old he is. Kind of the power behind the skull-throne, handles most tactical movements.

The Various Generals

Half-Elf Cleric - Not a particularly skilled leader, chosen only due to being able to command undead particularly well. Defeat likely to be relatively easy, base lacking any sort of anti-intruder planning, etc. Killing him will be a setback for the BBEG, but a minor one.

Vampire Warmage/Master Vampire/Fighter - The only one consulted about major orders by above 2nd-in-command before they are given. Intelligent, brilliant strategist, likely to be a major problem and probably have about eighty escape routes planned. Killing this guy will cause a lot of trouble for the BBEG, especially seeing as mistakes will be more common without his strategic advice.

Dwarf True Necromancer - Totally insane and fanatical, listens to every command given to her by the BBEG religiously. Will fight to the death. The BBEG views her insanity as a liability and has "ordered" her to roam around the countryside destroying and animating villagers, and to come back when there's not any more living things.



Various other major cohorts:

Vampire Eldritch Knights - Created and trained by the Master Vampire above, these guys function as lieutenants.

Half-Fiend Werecheetah Rogue/Assassin - Job description should be pretty obvious from the class. I'm debating whether or not "Half-Fiend Werecheetah" is too silly, but I figured I wouldn't mention the specifics to the players, and that a sneaky demonic super-fast cat thing would be fairly intimidating. Figured I'd send it to attack the PCs if they start to really annoy the BBEG/Need something to get them back on track.

Look good?

[Zonugal]

So far it looks good, as long as you keep a solid progression of difficulty ascending as the players carve their way to the top.

Also don't forget that no BBEG is complete without a squad similar to these guys...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/5/52/Ginyu_Force.jpg

[Runestar]

The only gripe I have is that they are all casters. So fights may seem a little repetitive. I mean, a favoured soul and cleric are virtually indistinguishable in battle.

And they are all humanoids. Myself, I prefer something a tad more "exotic" for the wow factor. For instance, MM3 has that necromancer-themed raksasha. Draconomicon has rules for vampiric dragons. Throw in a fallen angel somewhere.

What lv are we looking at?

A double-evolved lich MT is going to have a ridiculously inflated cr relative to what they are capable of in combat. Just warning you.

[Crossblade]

I like how flushed out they are. Looks beautiful to me.

In response to Runestar, minor fights can be fighter type oriented, casters are always stronger anyways.

Good job, Keinnicht.

[Runestar]

I don't deny that casters are stronger; I am just irritated how at higher lvs, battles tend to degenerate into spell-sling-fests because, yeah, magic owns all.:smallannoyed:

[Keinnicht]

The only gripe I have is that they are all casters. So fights may seem a little repetitive. I mean, a favoured soul and cleric are virtually indistinguishable in battle.

And they are all humanoids. Myself, I prefer something a tad more "exotic" for the wow factor. For instance, MM3 has that necromancer-themed raksasha. Draconomicon has rules for vampiric dragons. Throw in a fallen angel somewhere.

Right after I posted this I ran across the Lichfiend variant in Libris Mortis. I think one of those is a good idea, might replace the lame Cleric with him. Any suggestions for a good fiend to become a lich? Adjusted CR around 14 or 15?

Or a Fallen Angel Lichfiend. That could be more interesting. Are there specific rules on fallen angels somewhere?



What lv are we looking at?


Not sure yet, PCs are currently level 7, probably going to run to high levels.


A double-evolved lich MT is going to have a ridiculously inflated cr relative to what they are capable of in combat. Just warning you.

That's a good point, but I figured I might fudge his CR a bit based on what he's actually capable of.


So far it looks good, as long as you keep a solid progression of difficulty ascending as the players carve their way to the top.

Also don't forget that no BBEG is complete without a squad similar to these guys...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/5/52/Ginyu_Force.jpg

I'll keep that in mind. Although the Vampire Eldritch Knights were going to serve a similar purpose.

[Thurbane]

You could use this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8525164&postcount=19) as one of his cohorts...bump up the level if you want to.

[Runestar]

Or a Fallen Angel Lichfiend. That could be more interesting. Are there specific rules on fallen angels somewhere?

Dicefreaks has them somewhere, though the fastest way would be to simply replace all its good-themed SLAs with their evil counterpart (eg: holy smite becomes unholy blight, holy aura becomes unholy aura, protection from evil aura becomes prot from good).

Lichfiend is technically +2cr (I say technically because outsiders tend to have good con scores, and becoming undead would cause them to lose a healthy chunk of their hp and possibly regeneration, though undead immunities are attractive).

http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8

Visit the link above and download chapter4.

If you want an angel, I suppose astral deva or ghaele might suit your needs.

[bondpirate]

Here are some evil compatriots you might like to use:

1) Wizard/Loremaster or Divine Oracle - why? you may ask. It's so the BBEG has a dedicated scryer/adviser who knows everything about the PCs and their adventures. All their triumphs and tribulations to mess with their heads. "Sure you saved the princess from a dragon... then, but if you fight us you wont save her from the faux prince who will infiltrate the royal family and murder them all. Better hurry."

2) The classic ex-Paladin/Blackguard - Alaria bravely and valiantly falls to the BBEG who easily defeats her. He exposes her to the corrupting ancient artifact and her whole faith is crushed in the presence of its power. Her celestial mount writhes in pain as its flesh is covered in flames and is transformed into a nightmare. They are reborn anew. C'mon, who doesn't love a baddy with a poisoned sword, a flaming horse, ability to command undead and has style greater than a Paladin on her best day. Great villain stuff here.

3) Druid/Hierophant - evil druid willing to partner with the BBEG. Specializes in vermin/blight type stuff. Uses Hierophant abilities 'Power of Nature' to turn all minions into Vermin (like a Giant Mantis, Monstrous Spider or the ever dreaded Giant Bombardier Beetle), and gives the assassin his other druid abilities. Most notably wild empathy and 'a thousand faces' so she can gain vermin minions and disguise self at will. I'll let you put the cherry on top by determining what the vermin companion should be. This guy is a great high level baddy. Not too powerful, but has a lot of in story utility and easy way to buff weaker NPCs. Or, since you have Complete Divine, go ex-Druid/Blighter. Either one is fun to use.

4) Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist - divinely powered monk whose fist are covered in black/evil flame. Has no eyes (removed by BBEG for failing him once) has crazy high listen and tumble. Have the party fight him in a pagoda type area where every level has Unhallow cast on it. Every level the party fights him until they get to the top, where the story can determine what happens next.

5) Shadowcaster - If you have ToM and you haven't had one (especially with web enhancements) be a villain. Cue one up. They are awesome as PCs, even better as NPCs.

6) Wizard/Red Wizard of Thay and Fighter/Thayan Knights - Refluff - give the party a real challenge. Have fighters setup as shut down/trippers for added annoyance.

7) Warmage or Warlock - trigger happy enemy opener, need I say more.

8) Sorcerer/Blood Magus - powerful on their own, but if you have the Blood Magus capture someone important and have them inside the homunculus so the party can't destroy it, this gives the enemy essentially a damage capacitor to prolong the battle. The other abilities are great on their own and add a layer of built in fluff.

9) Master Transmorfigist and Mindbenders are great villain PrCs as well.

10) Fighter/Rogue or Monk/Kensei - Loyal Guard to BBEG. Grab Monkey Grip and exotic weapon proficiency feats and put the 'sizing' enchantment on it. Have an item that cast enlarge person on him. So his Bastard Sword has a reach of 5ft normally, enlarge person increases the sword and wielder to large. Monkey Grip to huge size the sword followed by further increasing the sword size to colossal for a -4 cumulative penalty on the weapon. You now have a baddy who is 10-12 ft tall wielding a sword 25 ft long, one handed weapon that does 6d8 damage and 4 attacks per round on a full attack. You still have +9 enhancements to play with and you've only used 2 feats. Watch your players piss themselves.

This is all I've got at the moment. Hope it can give you some help.

[Keinnicht]

7) Warmage or Warlock - trigger happy enemy opener, need I say more.


I was actually thinking about a lichfiend warlock. Which fiend I haven't decided yet. I do think Bearded Devils are pretty cool looking, plus they have a low enough CR I could give them a decent number of warlock levels.



9) Master Transmorfigist and Mindbenders are great villain PrCs as well.


Not really in the BBEG's style. He's not into the whole intrigue and manipulation thing. He's into the "kill everybody. Reanimate them." thing.


10) Fighter/Rogue or Monk/Kensei - Loyal Guard to BBEG. Grab Monkey Grip and exotic weapon proficiency feats and put the 'sizing' enchantment on it. Have an item that cast enlarge person on him. So his Bastard Sword has a reach of 5ft normally, enlarge person increases the sword and wielder to large. Monkey Grip to huge size the sword followed by further increasing the sword size to colossal for a -4 cumulative penalty on the weapon. You now have a baddy who is 10-12 ft tall wielding a sword 25 ft long, one handed weapon that does 6d8 damage and 4 attacks per round on a full attack. You still have +9 enhancements to play with and you've only used 2 feats. Watch your players piss themselves.

That sounds like something I'm going to use.



This is all I've got at the moment. Hope it can give you some help.

Even if you haven't helped me in terms of design, you have definitely helped me in terms of figuring out the villain. Because when I thought "no, that doesn't work" I had to figure out why it didn't make sense.

I'm trying to back off on the undead, but its kind of the theme. I'm thinking their needs to be some true necromancers and pale masters around. Lower-level ones, just for more undead-animating fun.

[true_shinken]

I'd give the BBEG a bodyguard. Someone with a lockdown build and ridiculous reach. I did this once with General Orson - he thwarted the PCs plans so badly during the encounter with the quirky miniboss squad they focused fire on him instead of the Archivist. Two levels of Tactical Soldier, lots of reach, dual-wield spinning swords, Double Hit, Mage Slayer, Thicket of Blades, Sidestep and Stand Still. Add some debuffing to his weapons if you think it's necessary.

[Eurus]

I'd give the BBEG a bodyguard. Someone with a lockdown build and ridiculous reach. I did this once with General Orson - he thwarted the PCs plans so badly during the encounter with the quirky miniboss squad they focused fire on him instead of the Archivist. Two levels of Tactical Soldier, lots of reach, dual-wield spinning swords, Double Hit, Mage Slayer, Thicket of Blades, Sidestep and Stand Still. Add some debuffing to his weapons if you think it's necessary.

That, except make him a Glaivelock. The impracticality is balanced by the awesome (and the touch attacks. And the fact that nobody will ever, ever make their save against Stand Still).

EDIT: Also, what says "undead bodyguard" better than a mummy (or the mummified template)? :smallbiggrin:

[Analytica]

A double-evolved lich MT is going to have a ridiculously inflated cr relative to what they are capable of in combat. Just warning you.

Probably true. Do consider, however:
- Aligned Theurgy from Dragon #325. Choose Evil as the alignment descriptor. For any spells with this descriptor, sum your divine and arcane CLs and use that.
- Corrupt Spell, or whatever the BoVD +1 metamagic feat is called that adds the Evil descriptor to the spell.

Basically, a dual caster that got this high can break through any spell resistance, and can Blasphemy anything to death.

[nargbop]

I second the notion that this group is caster-heavy. This is fine, as long as they summon meat shields repeatedly. They need time to say their trademark phrases before the PCs rip them into tiny pieces and burn them.

Building an interesting melee villain is difficult. Look up tripping builds and disarm builds, and see what you can do with some ranged baddies to harass from a distance while the PCs deal with the "more dangerous" guys.

[bondpirate]

If you need some design help here's one:

Instead of the Dwarf True-Necromancer I'd recommend this character.

Lady Vanity (aka Vanaria Italin Ysna)
Human Sorcerer6/Pale Master 6 CR12
Stats 12STR 14DEX 16CON 10INT 9WIS 20CHA
Medium Humanoid
HD: 12d4 +36 HP: 66
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30ft
AC: 12, Touch: 12, Flat-Foot: 10
BAB: +6/+1, Base Attack: +7
Grapple: +7
Attack: /Full Attack:
Saves: +11 Fort/+6 Ref/+9 Will
Abilities:Metamagic Specialist, Animate Dead, Darkvision, Undead Armor Affinity, Control Undead, Deathless Vigor, Undead Graft, Paralyzing Touch
Feats: Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion]), Corpsecrafter (LM), Deadly Chill (LM), Destruction Retribution (LM), Nimble Bones (LM), Education (ECS)
Alignment: NE
Skills: +9 (+16) Bluff, +15 (+18) Concentration, +15 Knowledge (Religion), +6 Spellcraft

The party is intercepted on a path by a beautiful woman who needs an escort to her place of work. It's raining hard and the party has heard rumors of people missing in these woods. Further on the path they come across a bordello in the middle of the woods. The woman tells them that it's too dangerous to progress any further in the dark and that they should stay the night. The place is called 'The Vanaria Italin Ysna Fairgrounds. The last comfort you'll ever need.' The players feel warm and welcome inside. Inside they meet Vanaria who will be very warm towards any male with a high Charisma, and subtlely cold toward any female with a high Charisma. If the highest Charisma is a male character, then she tries to seduce him. If he acquiesces to her and becomes her paramour, then she paralyzes him and the party is attacked by her zombie minions who are all the patrons and performers. She proclaims that he is a fitting addition to her collection. If a female PC has the highest Charisma, then she tries to convince the female PC to come with her. If she does, she is attacked with a paralysis attack and she gloats how she will be the most beautiful woman ever, even if she has to have the face of someone else. If she is turned down, she has a mental breakdown. "Not again, first he refuses my will. Now you do! I will be the one to win him." When she reveals herself, runes appear on her arm and melt her arm away. She then tears off her face and the battle commences. The bordello's true form is revealed, many of the letters on the bordello's signs are scratched out. Leaving only the Van, the It, the Y; and grounds has been removed. Every item is worn and dusty, if not broken, that can be seen. All the lights are blown out, taking all the warmth with it, and only characters with low-light vision or darkvision are unaffected by the night darkness. The party is alone with this small worlds master and mistress, Lady Vanity. And this... is vanity fair.

Yeah, this is your basic vanity villain, but dang if they aren't memorable. It's a good way to suggest to the party this adventure is full of undead goodies and that there is a bigger fish to fry all in a short adventure hook. That, or it's a nifty one shot for a mid-high party. Honestly, I'd probably redo where she pops into the story other than the bordello, so it has more impact. This was a pretty bare-bones (no pun intended) presentation. With more polish, she could be a great character to use and in my opinion, she fills out the dwarf's requirements better in the long run.

P.S. I really need to make some templates in word to make filling out custom characters faster. :smalltongue:

[bondpirate]

Also, your half-elf cleric should PrC to Master of Shrouds and make him melee focused for more flavor and better undead creation.

[Runestar]

Ran some numbers on the astral deva lichfiend...

Not very impressive for what is supposed to be a cr16 adversary. Immunities are attractive, AC is good and be cranked up easily, but the rest suck. Hp is a measly 78!. One solution is to houserule in unholy toughness (cha modxHD to hp), but 150 hp still doesn't seem like much. I think his cr can be safely reduced to as low as 12 (but his AC and sr may need adjusting so it does not become too overwhelming for the party).

I like the idea of giving him 3-mountains style. Thus, whenever he hits a PC twice in a round, he must make 2 fort saves to avoid being stunned or nauseated.

Or maybe scratch it because it seems like a decent idea hindered by crappy mechanics. :smallannoyed:

Also, Spellweaver (MM2) liches, because I just can't get over them from age of worms.:smallbiggrin:

[Keinnicht]

Also, Spellweaver (MM2) liches, because I just can't get over them from age of worms.:smallbiggrin:

Crud, you're right. I think I might scrap the lichfiend, it seems like a better epic-level opponent, when you can have class levels on top of the template.

Which brings us to his replacement.

Nightmare Warlock.

Yeah. It's a flaming demon horse shooting you with lasers. Yeah, it can fly. Yeah, the BBEG's supreme general is riding on top of it. Yeah.

[Runestar]

Crud, you're right. I think I might scrap the lichfiend, it seems like a better epic-level opponent, when you can have class levels on top of the template.

You won't need class lvs, since racial HD improves its innate spellcasting. Though its cr should probably improve at a 1:1 rate, rather than the 3:1 rate as suggested in the MM.

However, since its entry technically states HD, this suggests that class lvs might improve its spellcasting as well. For example, a spellweaver fighter4 would cast as a sorc16 (according to dragon 338). And the fighter lvs are apparently treated as non-associated (because the sample spellweaver fighter4 is just cr12). Utterly broken interpretation.:smallannoyed:

Also, I noticed that as a monstrous humanoid, it qualifies for the monster of legend template, but lich probably fits your backstory better. :smalltongue:

[bondpirate]

10) Fighter/Rogue or Monk/Kensei - Loyal Guard to BBEG. Grab Monkey Grip and exotic weapon proficiency feats and put the 'sizing' enchantment on it. Have an item that cast enlarge person on him. So his Bastard Sword has a reach of 5ft normally, enlarge person increases the sword and wielder to large. Monkey Grip to huge size the sword followed by further increasing the sword size to colossal for a -4 cumulative penalty on the weapon. You now have a baddy who is 10-12 ft tall wielding a sword 25 ft long, one handed weapon that does 6d8 damage and 4 attacks per round on a full attack. You still have +9 enhancements to play with and you've only used 2 feats. Watch your players piss themselves.

I screwed up on Monkey Grip. It's a 3.0 feat and the weapon size rules are different in 3.5 making it invalid for what I want it to do. Is there a feat that makes it so you can wield a weapon one size category larger without penalty? Or does it fall under home-brew territory? I now wanna make a character who uses colossal sized weaponry in combat.

Here's the srd on weapon size:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize

Edit: After some research I have concluded weapon size rules/physics and how monkey grip works in 3.5 dnd is fubar. But for the sake of my sanity, I am going with my original interpretation. One feat for removing a minus two penalty doesn't seem egregious in any case.