Last name?

[Mordaenor]

So, has anyone else noticed? Elan's family is a bit more central to the plot than any other family to date. And yet he's the only human who doesn't have a last name. For that matter the only other PC without a last name is V, but I can accept the notion that Elves don't have family names.

[mr man]

Elan is his last name du du da his first name
is yet to be reviled

[The Pilgrim]

They all are saving it for an emergency. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html)

[Dr.Epic]

Elan's family is a bit more central to the plot than any other family to date.

Really? Because the whole kill-Xykon-save-the-world thing started because Roy had to fulfill a Blood Oath to his father.

[Mordaenor]

True, Eugene Greenhilt gave us some important back-story, without which the story wouldn't have occured, but it seems to me like Nale and Tarquin have played a much greater role in the events of the overall comic, than anyone else's family.

[Sylthia]

I've been wondering the same thing. We had a topic about it a few weeks ago. I guess his last name is "the Bard" for now.

[Morquard]

Back in medivial times not everyone had a last name, since it wasn't really needed. So it's quite possible Elan doesn't have a last name at all.

[Dr.Epic]

True, Eugene Greenhilt gave us some important back-story, without which the story wouldn't have occured, but it seems to me like Nale and Tarquin have played a much greater role in the events of the overall comic, than anyone else's family.

Still, without Roy's dad and the Blood Oath, none of this would be happening. The Order would never have been formed and Elan may have never met his brother or father.

[Swordpriest]

I prefer the mocking name Ganjji gave to Tarquin: Spikyhelm. :smallbiggrin:

"Elan Spikyhelm" -- it has a certain something, doesn't it? :smallwink:

[Morquard]

Well considering people call Tarquin "General Tarquin", that means that Tarquin either
a) is his lastname
b) is his only name
c) is some sort of nickname

a) Noone would call General Ulysses S. Grant "General Ulysses", so if Tarquin has a first and a lastname, then Tarquin is his lastname. In which case its quite possible that's also Elan's and Nale's name. Was Tarquin's name mentioned before we actually saw him and he revealed he's Elan's father? You'd assume that Elan would recognize his own lastname.

b) Actually my favorite. In #760 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html) Tarquin quotes Elan's mother "Oh Tarquin, you jerk!" Why would Elan's mom call him by his lastname if he got a firstname. And due to a) its unlikely that's his firstname.
However if that's his only name, then that doesn't really tell us anything about Elan's lastname. Except that its quite possible that he has none either, since lastnamelessness runs in the family.
Also if he had a lastname, and shared it with Nale, then you'd think it would show up on the wanted poster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html). But there's none

c) Doesn't really tell us anything either, but the conclusion that Elan has no lastname doesn't logically follow, as he'd probably have Tarquin's legal name.

[cho_j]

Well considering people call Tarquin "General Tarquin", that means that Tarquin either
a) is his lastname
b) is his only name
c) is some sort of nickname

a) Noone would call General Ulysses S. Grant "General Ulysses", so if Tarquin has a first and a lastname, then Tarquin is his lastname. In which case its quite possible that's also Elan's and Nale's name. Was Tarquin's name mentioned before we actually saw him and he revealed he's Elan's father? You'd assume that Elan would recognize his own lastname.

b) Actually my favorite. In #760 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html) Tarquin quotes Elan's mother "Oh Tarquin, you jerk!" Why would Elan's mom call him by his lastname if he got a firstname. And due to a) its unlikely that's his firstname.
However if that's his only name, then that doesn't really tell us anything about Elan's lastname. Except that its quite possible that he has none either, since lastnamelessness runs in the family.
Also if he had a lastname, and shared it with Nale, then you'd think it would show up on the wanted poster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html). But there's none

c) Doesn't really tell us anything either, but the conclusion that Elan has no lastname doesn't logically follow, as he'd probably have Tarquin's legal name.

I'm with Morquad entirely on this. The evidence for Option B is nice and solid. Also, unrelated, but every single dang time I read Tarquin's imitation of Elan and Nale's mom, I can't help but hear it in a high-pitched silly voice, like when Monty Python cast members were playing women. And it makes me SO HAPPY.

[ThePhantasm]

Elan is his last name du du da his first name
is yet to be reviled

You are wrong. I already hate it.

Unless Elan is his first name, which would be awesome. And it is.

[ref]

I wouldn't have thought I'd hear a NintendoCapriSun rendition here! And by Cho no less, the best seeker there is!

[cho_j]

I wouldn't have thought I'd hear a NintendoCapriSun rendition here! And by Cho no less, the best seeker there is!

NintendoCapriSun? Sorry to disappoint, but I've not the faintest clue what that is. :smallredface:

[Velaryon]

Well considering people call Tarquin "General Tarquin", that means that Tarquin either
a) is his lastname
b) is his only name
c) is some sort of nickname

a) Noone would call General Ulysses S. Grant "General Ulysses", so if Tarquin has a first and a lastname, then Tarquin is his lastname. In which case its quite possible that's also Elan's and Nale's name. Was Tarquin's name mentioned before we actually saw him and he revealed he's Elan's father? You'd assume that Elan would recognize his own lastname.

b) Actually my favorite. In #760 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html) Tarquin quotes Elan's mother "Oh Tarquin, you jerk!" Why would Elan's mom call him by his lastname if he got a firstname. And due to a) its unlikely that's his firstname.
However if that's his only name, then that doesn't really tell us anything about Elan's lastname. Except that its quite possible that he has none either, since lastnamelessness runs in the family.
Also if he had a lastname, and shared it with Nale, then you'd think it would show up on the wanted poster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html). But there's none

c) Doesn't really tell us anything either, but the conclusion that Elan has no lastname doesn't logically follow, as he'd probably have Tarquin's legal name.

There's definitely a strong case for Elan's family not having a last name, but if they DO, then there's a good chance that Elan does not share the last name of Nale and Tarquin. Since he was raised by his mother, he could very well havve her last name instead.

[Cealocanth]

I've been wondering the same thing. We had a topic about it a few weeks ago. I guess his last name is "the Bard" for now.

Actually, that's quite a bit more plausible than you may think.

In medieval times family names often took the form of the person's profession, or some quality of themselves.

Cook, Baker, Cobbler, and Smith are all examples of profession last names that were originally created during the middle ages. Which means that if Elan's profession is a bard, then Elan's full name could very well be "Elan the Bard".

It could also have something to do to his parents. For example, the Hebrew "ben-avram" means "son of Avram". Then there's always the Icelandic method, creating names like Jackson. For all we know, it could be Elan Tarquinson or even Elan ibn-Tarquin, based on the Western continental culture of his father.

[yldenfrei]

Agreeing with Cealocanth on people acquiring their professions as their surname in medieval times.

Also, fun anecdote: When I registered here, I had to identify an OotS member for bot-check and got Elan. I typed "elan" which was wrong. Apparently it had to be "elan the bard". And since with the next try I passed with "belkar bitterleaf", I think it's safe to assume that, at least according to the creator/s of the playground, Elan the Bard is his full name.

[cho_j]

Agreeing with Cealocanth on people acquiring their professions as their surname in medieval times.

Also, fun anecdote: When I registered here, I had to identify an OotS member for bot-check and got Elan. I typed "elan" which was wrong. Apparently it had to be "elan the bard". And since with the next try I passed with "belkar bitterleaf", I think it's safe to assume that, at least according to the creator/s of the playground, Elan the Bard is his full name.

Huh! That's an interesting anecdote. As you can tell from my earlier post, I'm more of the opinion that Elan doesn't really HAVE a last name. But I don't think these two theories are incompatible: in the Middle Ages, occupation wasn't quite a last name as much as it was a way to identify which person of a specific first name you were discussing. If two hundred years later, Elan's great-whatever is Soandso Bard (or Bard-Starshine :smallbiggrin:), whether or not they're carrying on the family business, then you've got a surname the way we think of it— passed on from parent to child over many generations. Last names in modern times are pretty much synonymous with family name, whereas I think that "the Bard" is a medieval identifying/occupational name.

Interesting, some of the characters DO have family names (Haley, Belkar, Roy, Durkon, Miko...). Which pretty well reflects the DnD world to me: some players don't know quite as much about medieval Europe and come up with a family name for their peasant-born character, and some do and come up with a first name and an occupation, 'cause, hey, that works just as well.

/sociological observation and history lesson

[slayerx]

True, Eugene Greenhilt gave us some important back-story, without which the story wouldn't have occured, but it seems to me like Nale and Tarquin have played a much greater role in the events of the overall comic, than anyone else's family.
Nale himself barely qualifies as a villain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0724.html) :smalltongue:
As for Tarquin, he has only just showed up and the extent of his involvement is giving birth to Nale and Elan, providing Haley with a subplot, and having a key role in ONE phase of the overarching story

essentially Roy's family and Xykon have been the driving force of the comic's main plot... elan's family has just been the biggest source of subplots



In medieval times family names often took the form of the person's profession, or some quality of themselves.

Cook, Baker, Cobbler, and Smith are all examples of profession last names that were originally created during the middle ages. Which means that if Elan's profession is a bard, then Elan's full name could very well be "Elan the Bard".

we've already seen this in comic with Roy whose family is named after their ancestral sword.
Though still by default Elan would have taken either his mother's name or his father's unless he decided to take on a new name for himself. I suppose its possible that he just doesn't have a last name

[Morquard]

Though still by default Elan would have taken either his mother's name or his father's unless he decided to take on a new name for himself. I suppose its possible that he just doesn't have a last name

No, by default he wouldn't have.

There's John living in a small village. He's a cobbler. Since there is just one John living there, everyone knows which John people mean when they say John, so he doesn't have any last name. There might be another John two villages away, but who cares about them. Usually John is "our" John.
John has a son, Tim. Which name of his father should Tim get by default? Tim John? He'd maybe be called Tim, son of John or something like that if there are more than one Tim in the village. But it might also be Young Tim, if the other Tim is already older.

Now a new man moves into the village. His name is also John. And he's a thatcher, so people start calling him "John the Thatcher" to make sure people know they're not talking about "John the Cobbler".
Now John the Thatcher has a son, Jim. Jim is 10 years old. Jim is not called Jim the Thatcher, because he's not a thatcher. You'll agree it would be really silly if they did, right?
He might be called Jim, the son of John the Thatcher, or maybe just Jim, son of the thatcher, or maybe even Jim, the son of John (assuming the other John didn't have a Jim either), if someone wants to make sure you know exactly which Jim you're talking about.

Also back in that time it wasn't unusual for a son to learn the same trade as his father, so eventually Jim might have become Jim the Thatcher too.

And then, eventually the "the" was scratched as was the "son of" part and it was just John Thatcher and Jim Thatcher, but that was quite some time later.

I think the main reason that happened was because the kings or the church, or both wanted to keep track of the people for tax reasons and such stuff, and they also needed some way to keep all those Johns apart, and ended giving their children the same "names" which they eventually got stuck with.

[LuPuWei]

Cook, Baker, Cobbler, and Smith are all examples of profession last names that were originally created during the middle ages. Which means that if Elan's profession is a bard, then Elan's full name could very well be "Elan the Bard".

It could also have something to do to his parents. For example, the Hebrew "ben-avram" means "son of Avram". Then there's always the Icelandic method, creating names like Jackson. For all we know, it could be Elan Tarquinson or even Elan ibn-Tarquin, based on the Western continental culture of his father.

Well said. There's one more point though. Some cultures also had lastnames linked to their country, village, point of origin etc (like the Dutch or Germans, or India)

So his full name could be Elan the Bard Tarquinson van Blondie's Pub

[Souhiro]

They are Tarquin, "Mom", Elan and Nail LaLiLuLeLo.

Oh... that patriots have messed up again! Well, I suposse that circa 2014 I will be able to write it. Can you wait until then?

[Dr.Epic]

They are Tarquin, "Mom", Elan and Nail LaLiLuLeLo.

Oh... that patriots have messed up again! Well, I suposse that circa 2014 I will be able to write it. Can you wait until then?

No. I can't wait that long. But luckily I have a time machine. See you there in about 3 seconds.

[rakkoon]

We were forced by Napoleon to take last names. Often it refers to a place or profession. The Dutch though it was a joke so made a lot of funny-sounding names like SleepsAround or OutOfMyPants. Lots of Dutch people still have last names like that and I am torn between laughter and pity. I always think they might have had a troublesome puberty.

Rakkoon Tarquinson (hmm, I like the sound of that)

[Souhiro]

No. I can't wait that long. But luckily I have a time machine. See you there in about 3 seconds.

Hey, did you see the "me" in the future?
The surname is quite impresive, isn't?

[TimelordSimone]

If two hundred years later, Elan's great-whatever is Soandso Bard (or Bard-Starshine :smallbiggrin:), whether or not they're carrying on the family business, then you've got a surname the way we think of it— passed on from parent to child over many generations.

This reminds of in Wicked, Elpheba's great-grandfather is The Eminent Thropp, so Elpheba is Elpheba, Eminent Thropp thrice descending. By Son of A Witch, her son just refers to himself as Liir Thropp.

[Barstro]

Still, without Roy's dad and the Blood Oath, none of this would be happening. The Order would never have been formed and Elan may have never met his brother or father.

The origin of the story does not necessarily mean that it is central to the plot. As I recall, Fizban brought all the adventurers together in Dragonlance, but he was not a central character in the stories.

The plot WAS "kill Xycon to avenge Eugene" (almost spelled that with a "Z"). The plot is now "protect the gates".

Besides, as Origin tells us;
Elan is the one who actually suggested that a party be made (and named the party). Roy had no clue what to do until Elan taught him how to get other adventurers.

[War]

I've been thinking about the matter of surnames recently too, good timing.

Since Elan's been discussed quite a bit (though I've also idly wondered about the name "Starshine") I did notice there was one elf with a surname in OtOoPCs, and that's the only one I've been able to find. And there are definitely times when you'd think it'd come up, formal settings (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html) and such. That one exception could just be an individual title rather than a family name. (Or I could buy it coming from a different elf culture -- the first name doesn't seem to fit most of the other elf names we've seen anyway -- but I'm not sure OotS's standard-issue fantasy pastiche would have more than one.)

But we have Vaarsuvius tending to call people by their surnames, which would seem a little odd if s/he isn't natively familiar with the concept of surnames at all. I suppose s/he could have picked up the idea and learned that that's a polite form of address while still not really seeing surnames the same way as people who grew up with them. Or maybe elven culture does have surnames, but they're rare? Something you earn, maybe? Hmm.

Extrapolating about fantasy cultures based on little details is fun.

[Querzis]

The plot WAS "kill Xycon to avenge Eugene" (almost spelled that with a "Z").

Yes but instead you spelled it with a C.

Anyway, I also think that Elan doesnt have a last name. Lots of other characters in the comic dont seems to have last name either anyway. If Elan got a last name, as other people already said, its «the Bard».

[Barstro]

Yes but instead you spelled it with a C.

So that's why it still looked odd. :smalltongue:

[Commander672]

Elan is his last name du du da his first name
is yet to be reviled

Nale is his twin brother.

[Dr.Epic]

The origin of the story does not necessarily mean that it is central to the plot. As I recall, Fizban brought all the adventurers together in Dragonlance, but he was not a central character in the stories.

The plot WAS "kill Xycon to avenge Eugene" (almost spelled that with a "Z"). The plot is now "protect the gates".

I'm still going with Roy's family because it was his Blood Oath that motivated Roy to seek help and thus was sort of the initial spark. Everything is owed to that. Without out Roy's dad, this would not be the story.


Besides, as Origin tells us;
Elan is the one who actually suggested that a party be made (and named the party). Roy had no clue what to do until Elan taught him how to get other adventurers.

No. It wasn't Elan's idea to form a party. Roy was looking for people when he bumped into Elan who helped him. Again, Elan may have found a way to form a party, but it was Roy who decided to form a party - without Roy, there would be no party. Besides, Durkon found two people that Roy rejected without meeting: the two epic guys. Had Roy never met Elan, Roy probably would have gone with Durkon's guys.

[Swordpriest]

Warning: Origin of PCs Spoilers.

I just bought and read the book, and looking at this as the start of the story, you can see that it's really Roy's story from the get-go. He gets more screen time than any of the other characters, and his parts are much more detailed and more related towards powering up the plot. Roy's the root from which the story springs, even if he's spent a third of it dead so far.

Oh yes, and all I can say is -- poor Sir Francois. :smallbiggrin:

[LuPuWei]

Warning: Origin of PCs Spoilers.

I just bought and read the book, and looking at this as the start of the story, you can see that it's really Roy's story from the get-go. He gets more screen time than any of the other characters, and his parts are much more detailed and more related towards powering up the plot. Roy's the root from which the story springs, even if he's spent a third of it dead so far.

Oh yes, and all I can say is -- poor Sir Francois. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, and even when we was dead, he got a whole lotta screen time. Not bad for a dead guy.

[CletusMusashi]

Elan Not-Nale nickname.
Actual name: Not-Nale Not-Nale.
Not: Nale Not-Nale.
Nale Not-Nale: Nale.
Not-Nale Not-Nale: Not-Nale Not-Nale.
Tarquin: Tarquin Not-Nale.
Tarquin first in lineage not to be twin.
Not-Nale Not-Nale have Elan nickname so long he think real name.
Nale realize father choose Not-Nale as family name, but not really know full story.
Nale sad.

[Shoelessgdowar]

Elan Not-Nale nickname.
Actual name: Not-Nale Not-Nale.
Not: Nale Not-Nale.
Nale Not-Nale: Nale.
Not-Nale Not-Nale: Not-Nale Not-Nale.
Tarquin: Tarquin Not-Nale.
Tarquin first in lineage not to be twin.
Not-Nale Not-Nale have Elan nickname so long he think real name.
Nale realize father choose Not-Nale as family name, but not really know full story.
Nale sad.

I don't know what is scarier... that the more I read that, the less it gives me a headache... that I actually understood it... that it actually makes some odd sense... or that it means Throg identified Elan's last name way back when he and Not Nale Not-Nale were imprisoned while Nale Not-Nale, Not Not-Nale Not-Nale, was pretending to be Not-Nale Not-Nale with the future Mrs. Not-Nale Not-Nale who wanted to Nale Not-Nale Not-Nale, and Not Nale Nale Not-Nale.