How do you UMD?

[Admiral Squish]

Really, the question boils down how does UMD ACTUALLY work? After all, it's not the size of the wand, it's how you use it. Does the skill represent pronouncing the magic words right? Is it simply forcing your will on the item in question? Do you have to mentally convince the wand to work? Is there a switch or a button? What does the actual UMD check represent?

[HunterOfJello]

Use Magic Device is a learned skill gained by studying magical items and how most of them work. By doing a UMD check, you can attempt to activate a magical item by 'winging it'. You try to mimic the actions of real spellcasters who use wands and magical items so that you can achieve the same effect that they can, without all the book studying or praying.

[Defiant]

To figure that out, you must first ask how do wands work?

Why can spellcasters use wands but non-spellcasters can't? Are wands "locked out" from people who don't have the spell on their list? Or is you need to possess a certain knowledge or power to use them?

If the former, the answer to your question would be "UMD means you're pretending to be someone else". If the latter, it's a bit tricky. I guess it would be akin to faking having that power --- but still, if you just need to fake the power and not actually have it, then it just means the wand doesn't need the power, and it's just locked out.

Maybe you're just getting slight grasps of actual arcane/divine power every time you make a UMD check.

[Sir_Chivalry]

To figure that out, you must first ask how do wands work?

Why can spellcasters use wands but non-spellcasters can't? Are wands "locked out" from people who don't have the spell on their list? Or is you need to possess a certain knowledge or power to use them?

If the former, the answer to your question would be "UMD means you're pretending to be someone else". If the latter, it's a bit tricky. I guess it would be akin to faking having that power --- but still, if you just need to fake the power and not actually have it, then it just means the wand doesn't need the power, and it's just locked out.

Maybe you're just getting slight grasps of actual arcane/divine power every time you make a UMD check.

Considering UMD also let's you fool alignment, race and class abilities, I'd think it was you fooling the magic item.

[Tvtyrant]

I always thought it was mimikcing what a caster would do; so you don't know why you twitch your fingers three times to make the wand of fireball go, you just do. However you don't have the ability to draw on magic itself, so you can't UMD spells, only things that already have magic in them. So a scroll, being precast, can be used but you couldn't UMD a spellbook into casting a fireball, since it doesn't have the inherent magic to do it.

[The Dark Fiddler]

An analogy I literally just though up is that UMD is akin to hot-wiring a car.

[Defiant]

Considering UMD also let's you fool alignment, race and class abilities, I'd think it was you fooling the magic item.

So that means that anyone could use a wand? It's just locked out for some reason to characters who don't have that particular spell on their spell list? This implies that it should be possible to create wands that anyone can use; just make it so that there's no lockout in place.

I can understand why wand creators would possibly create wands that can only be used by people who can cast the spell in the first place... but I could also see them creating some that can be used by anybody. And don't tell me that creating a wand without this lockout would make the price skyrocket to 5 times its original price (like it does in the item creation rules).

I still like the "flashes of insight" idea. Alignment? You get flashes of insight and actually are Lawful Evil for a moment. Race? You're not one, but your mind and psyche think exactly like one (so this would mean that an orc in a human's body should be able to use orc-only items). Class features? You *are* a spellcaster. But only for a brief moment, as a flash of insight gives you a good idea of exactly what it's like.

This makes sense in the whole "charisma" to the skill. Charisma is about relating to other people. In a way, understanding other people's viewpoints and stances, so that you can interact better - whether it be to find common ground for diplomacy, find quirks that you can exploit to make yourself believable for bluff, or find weaknesses and fears that you can pounce on for intimidate.

So maybe this is the dire half-dragon version of that. Not only do you perfectly see the wizard's viewpoint and perspective. You *are* a wizard, for a brief moment.

[Defiant]

I always thought it was mimikcing what a caster would do; so you don't know why you twitch your fingers three times to make the wand of fireball go, you just do. However you don't have the ability to draw on magic itself, so you can't UMD spells, only things that already have magic in them. So a scroll, being precast, can be used but you couldn't UMD a spellbook into casting a fireball, since it doesn't have the inherent magic to do it.

I would say this is a good analysis if it didn't mostly blow my paragraphs-long interpretation out of the water :smallsigh:

[Tvtyrant]

I would say this is a good analysis if it didn't mostly blow my paragraphs-long interpretation out of the water :smallsigh:

Hilariously I was just about to say that about yours :P

[Defiant]

Hilariously I was just about to say that about yours :P

Thanks! But I still think yours takes the cake. After all, scrolls and wands have the spells already cast into them, you just need to complete them. Similarly wizards pre-cast their spells when preparing them from a spellbook, they just need to complete them - with the material, verbal, and/or somatic components. This seems to be a big theme in D&D magic.

So a UMD check is to know how to complete it. Granted, this interpretation implies that once you've used an item once, you should be able to use it (and similar types) forever, but we can probably say that it's so complex that you don't even know exactly how you're doing it. [Whereas if you have the spell on your spell list, you presumably already know exactly how to complete it.]


Unfortunately for you, the cake is a lie. :smallbiggrin:

(an old reference, I know, but I felt it was warranted :smallwink:)

[Goober4473]

this interpretation implies that once you've used an item once, you should be able to use it (and similar types) forever

By the same logic, once you succeed at striking an orc with a sword, you should always be able to hit orcs with swords with no roll. That's basically the way I see it anyways. You may understand it, but it's still hard to do, and depends on the situation: your heart rate, breathing, flow of chi, your emotional state, what you're thinking about, etc. being comparable to battlefield conditions, enemy movement, what they're armed with, how they try to dodge, etc.

[Defiant]

By the same logic, once you succeed at striking an orc with a sword, you should always be able to hit orcs with swords with no roll. That's basically the way I see it anyways. You may understand it, but it's still hard to do, and depends on the situation: your heart rate, breathing, flow of chi, your emotional state, what you're thinking about, etc. being comparable to battlefield conditions, enemy movement, what they're armed with, how they try to dodge, etc.

The orc is dodging in a non-distinct pattern and has armour that is not necessarily uniformly strengthened; while the procedures to activate the magic item do not change :smallwink:

But yes, you bring a good point.

[Goober4473]

Right, but your personal state has a lot less effect on how you swing a sword, sans fatigue, wounds, etc. If you're thinking about cheese, you can still smack someone with your axe. But maybe fireball only works if you aren't thinking about cheese, so you need to force that image out of your head before you can use the wand.

I want some cheese now...

[Defiant]

Right, but your personal state has a lot less effect on how you swing a sword, sans fatigue, wounds, etc. If you're thinking about cheese, you can still smack someone with your axe. But maybe fireball only works if you aren't thinking about cheese, so you need to force that image out of your head before you can use the wand.

I want some cheese now...

I have cheese right now and am going to eat it :smallbiggrin:

[Tvtyrant]

As for that; taking my earlier example and extrapolating, if you don't understand why what your doing works its a lot harder to make it work everytime. Like fixing a computer if you aren't a computer engineer; you have seen how things work but sometimes issues you don't expect come up (like a dead Bios). You don't understand those things, so you just reformat it over and over again trying to get rid of the problem.

Same thing here I think, something could go wrong and you don't actualy know what it is.