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daxos232
2010-12-09, 05:25 PM
I have always wanted to know more about Castles and Crusaders. I am not a huge fan of 3.5, but I defintely prefer it to 4E, though I see the point to some of 4E's changes.

I can't find any rules examples or anything to C&C, can someone tell me what makes it different?

Mark Hall
2010-12-09, 06:28 PM
Hi, I'm the local evangelist for C&C.

Castles and Crusades is very familiar if you know 3e, but has a much more old school flavor. While any race can be any class, bonuses are generally lower (rather than being based on a 2 point scale, it's based on standard deviations.... +1 at 13-15, +2 at 16-17, and +3 at 18), and classes are more rigidly defined, and multiclassing is less free (in the basic game, there is no multiclassing). You can actually make a character more or less by picking a race, a class, and rolling stats.

The real draw of the system is "Primes". Rather than define a skill system, each character has two (or three) Primes, which define some of his training. Primes impact which saves you're good at... someone with Intelligence prime is good against Arcane Magics, someone with Charisma Prime is good at resisting Charms and Death Magics, and someone with Strength Prime is good at resisting paralysis. Likewise, someone with Intelligence prime is probably pretty good at puzzles and languages, someone with Charisma prime is a talker, and someone with Strength prime is good at feats of athletics.

One of your primes is determined by your class; all fighters have Strength prime, and all wizards have Intelligence prime. All races get to select a second prime; humans get, as their sole racial ability, a third prime. This helps to define your abilities and focus. In a recent game, we had a Fighter with Strength, Constitution, and Charisma prime. He was played as a rakish warrior of noble background. Our Human Ranger chose to have Dexterity and Wisdom prime (Strength being the required prime of rangers), because some of his class abilities were based on Dexterity and Wisdom.

All in all, it is an excellent game; my description above is pretty poor, since I'm typing it at work. However, I can probably answer your questions better tonight, when I'm not constantly distracted by library patrons.

Thurbane
2010-12-09, 06:49 PM
Thanks for that Mark. I'd love to hear more about C&C when you get a chance to expound futher. :smallwink:

Mark Hall
2010-12-09, 08:22 PM
Ok, home now.

The basics of the system is that you roll a d20, add your stat bonus, and try to get above an 18. It sounds hard, until you realize that you get to add 6 if the stat involved is prime, and you get to add your level if it's something to do with your class. On the downside, the DM also adds a Challenge bonus, based on how hard the task is.

So, a rogue trying to open a lock rolls a d20 and adds his stat bonus (+1 or +2, usually), but he also adds 6 for it being prime and his level... even a 1st level rogue is usually looking at only needing to roll a 10 or so to open a simple lock. If the DM thinks the lock is hard, he can add a few levels to it.

Saving throws are ALWAYS class related... you may not get a prime bonus, but you do get your whole level. Downside? The saving throw to resist a spell from a 10th level caster is 28... whether it's a cantrip or a 5th level spell. Class skills are always class related. Depending on your DM, other things can be class related... had our Mongolian (Tuigan, actually, but it gives you the idea) Ranger ever gotten his hands on a horse, I'd have let him add his level to riding checks. We had a thief who got his level to acrobatics checks, because he was a former circus performer.

It is very easy to run, even fresh out of the book for 1e or 2e adventures.

daxos232
2010-12-09, 09:04 PM
Thank you Mark, I greatly appreciate it.

I heard a bit about C&C, like how Gygax didn't like where wizards was taking 3.0 (IIRC). I would love to learn more. What's combat like? How's the magic and spells? Are there any issues or major complaints about the system? Do you think it encourages more role play?

I like that idea about Primes, and Challenges. And about how certain saves are linked to class level.

Dakeyras
2010-12-09, 09:29 PM
This sounds interesting is the and srd?

SimperingToad
2010-12-10, 12:11 AM
Troll Lord Games has a free Quick Start set of rules on their site HERE (http://www.trolllord.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=97). Obviously it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it should give you an idea of how things work.

Mark Hall
2010-12-10, 01:02 PM
Thank you Mark, I greatly appreciate it.

I heard a bit about C&C, like how Gygax didn't like where wizards was taking 3.0 (IIRC). I would love to learn more. What's combat like? How's the magic and spells? Are there any issues or major complaints about the system? Do you think it encourages more role play?

I like that idea about Primes, and Challenges. And about how certain saves are linked to class level.

I find that combat goes a lot faster than in 3e and 4e, partially because there are fewer modifiers. There's a lot less interrupting the flow of combat with interrupts and the like; it's roll, add 2-4 numbers (the d20, your melee attack bonus, and anything special from spells), and declare an AC.

Most of the spells are straight out of the SRD, with only changes to represent which attribute they save with; fireballs are "Dexterity Half", because if you succeed on your Dex save, you take half damage.

I think the major complaint I have run into is that the character options are somewhat limited. There are multiclassing options, but they're somewhat complicated (I have a simpler option, but it's likewise somewhat limited). Basically, you're playing an archetypical set of stats. However, it's very easy for a DM to make changes to accomodate a player's preferences. Another example from the recent game had a character who was a priest of the God of Invention. He traded away Turn Undead for the ability to open locks and find traps like a rogue of half his level.

It's hard to say that any given system encourages more role-playing. However, what I think a system like C&C does is encourage the out-of-stat development of the character. Because your character is always an elven ranger, and is not looking towards his next feat or prestige class, there's more time to think about his development as a person, rather than a set of numbers... his development as a person is in the game world, not the real world.



This sounds interesting is the and srd?

There is no SRD, though Simpering Toad posted a link to the QuickStart.

Matthew
2010-12-10, 08:48 PM
My feeling is that it is a good half-way house between D20/3e and AD&D; it is probably what a third edition of AD&D would have looked like if Wizards of the Coast had not encouraged a more daring redesign. Well worth a look if you think D20/3e is too rules heavy, but that AD&D has too mch of an eccentric and arbitrary aesthetic. The production values are obviously not as high as TSR or WotC products, nor Paizo or Mongoose, but about par for small press publishers.