4E - You *really* want to eat the troll?

[Ignatius]

OK - so in our session last night the party's chaotic evil eladrin assassin picked up a troll leg after the party had killed and burned it and started taking a few bites cause she was hungry.

She took a bit of poison damage at the time and I said that she was poisoned and at the end of each extended rest would need to roll a check to see if the disease got better or worse.

The only thing I dont know now is which disease should I give her... I will go looking through the compendium, but thought that the playground might have some extra poisons/disease ideas that might be cooler...

[Saint GoH]

Turn her into a troll.



Rawr.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Why was the Troll poisoned? :smallconfused:

Anyhow, you can just look at the Disease Rules and pick one which is equal in level to the Troll. As for effects... I really don't know where you're going with this.

What do you want the disease to accomplish?

[hamishspence]

If eating trolls counts as cannibalism, why not use the Wendigo Transformation from Demonomicon?

There's no rules for it though- so you might have to stat out the "disease" yourself- where the spirit of a Wendigo enters the person and turns them into Wendigo form.

[Saint GoH]

If eating trolls counts as cannibalism, why not use the Wendigo Transformation from Demonomicon?

There's no rules for it though- so you might have to stat out the "disease" yourself- where the spirit of a Wendigo enters the person and turns them into Wendigo form.

Oi. I said it first. You just said it more eloquently :smalltongue:

[Ignatius]

I like the idea of starting the process of turning her into a troll... I might look into that.

We only have two sessions left in this year long campaign and I was just looking for something fun to end on for this chaotic evil character.

Ideally I would love for the disease to rear its ugly head at the most inopportune times as in the final session they are going to need to resuce a city that is under siege from three opposing armies, crown and king and save the day.

Having the assassin vomit at the coronation or something like that would be an awesome way to end this heroic campaign and provide a good starting point for the paragon campaign when it happens.

[John Campbell]

I thought that's how you were supposed to convince trolls to stay down.

[Defiant]

Or how about the troll regenerates inside her. She gets torn apart from a troll growing in her stomach.

[druid91]

Or how about the troll regenerates inside her. She gets torn apart from a troll growing in her stomach.

Acid damage.

[Tvtyrant]

If you wanted to you could be nice to her and give her a weakness to acid and fire but give her fast healing. So acid and fire do double damage but she gets fast healing 1. Or make it so she takes only a little extra damage from fire and acid but can only use fast healing for 10-15 rounds a day.

[Tiki Snakes]

Eh, I think the simple fact that the troll was dead, she cooked the meat and the stomach is full of acid means that crazy over-the-top responses are pretty unfair, really. It's practically the safest thing you could do to a dead troll, really.

The way I see it, there are two ways it could, or should go.

1 - Nice DM route;
Having killed and eaten the troll, she takes it's strength inside her. Gains a daily regeneration-stance style power, something along the lines of the Bloodline feats, or the Shifter Racial that gives something like that.

2 - Naughty DM route;
She's cooked it carefully and eaten it, but that doesn't make the food edible. The disease she is tracking is, infact, food poisoning. The only question is, can she hold it down long enough not to come down with explosive diarrhea during the ceremony.

[dgnslyr]

Or how about the troll regenerates inside her. She gets torn apart from a troll growing in her stomach.

It was mentioned in one of the Drizzt novels that would happen, but it irked me a bit when I read it, because the stomach acid would negate the regeneration! Oh, Salvatore, you're so silly!

[Mercenary Pen]

Well, you know what they say, you are what you eat...

Maybe have her take on a monstrous transformation as the troll regeneration tries to take hold of her body, potentially turning her into something monstrous in appearance as well imposing penalties on her day to day adventuring, but providing her with temporary hit points each round...

[WitchSlayer]

If you have a DDI subscription, you could check out some of the assassin poison effects for eating something with the poison on it.

[Ignatius]

Eh, I think the simple fact that the troll was dead, she cooked the meat and the stomach is full of acid means that crazy over-the-top responses are pretty unfair, really. It's practically the safest thing you could do to a dead troll, really.

The way I see it, there are two ways it could, or should go.

1 - Nice DM route;
Having killed and eaten the troll, she takes it's strength inside her. Gains a daily regeneration-stance style power, something along the lines of the Bloodline feats, or the Shifter Racial that gives something like that.

2 - Naughty DM route;
She's cooked it carefully and eaten it, but that doesn't make the food edible. The disease she is tracking is, infact, food poisoning. The only question is, can she hold it down long enough not to come down with explosive diarrhea during the ceremony.

I think I like this the best - even though I would love to give her some awesome disease that does crazy stuff I think I will go with a combination of both of these.

So... each at encounter she can make an endurance check. If she succeeds, then she gets regen 10 while bloodied or something along those lines - I will look up some feats and powers and see what is best. First time she fails an endurance check, lose 1 healing surge. The second time, she disrupts whatever is going on with her explosive diarrhea!


If you have a DDI subscription, you could check out some of the assassin poison effects for eating something with the poison on it.

I do - I will have a look into this.

[holywhippet]

About the worst I'd expect to happen is for the food to not agree with the character. Troll meat isn't exactly on the menu for most people.

Maybe apply the weakened condition to the character from time to time?

[Tehnar]

If only the character was a goblin and a male then he would turn into the most awesome PC ever with awesome sauce in his veins...but alas...wrong setting.


I say give her a permanent -2 to everything (from the pain of indigestion), a further -2 to social skills (from flatulence), but she gains regeneration 5.

[Marnath]

It was mentioned in one of the Drizzt novels that would happen, but it irked me a bit when I read it, because the stomach acid would negate the regeneration! Oh, Salvatore, you're so silly!

A) maybe stomach acid is too weak to count? or B) maybe it grew fast enough it got stuck before it went in with the acid? :smallwink:

Also, I had an idea. Maybe trolls don't reproduce through sex, but rather by loosing limbs to wounds, and through a disease in their flesh that transmutes a normal fetus into a troll. Or bonds with the eggs to create a half-offspring( half-troll is a template, after all.) Although I'd be wary of doing that, as many people are uncomfortable with the idea of roleplaying pregnancy. It would be a hilarious consequence though.

[dgnslyr]

A) maybe stomach acid is too weak to count? or B) maybe it grew fast enough it got stuck before it went in with the acid? :smallwink:

Nope, they definitely said the unfortunate cat burst a while after nomming on the troll corpse because of a bunch of trolls popping out of its stomach.

I guess you could reason that stomach acid is too weak, though.

[Tiki Snakes]

It would be a hilarious consequence though.

Not particularly, really.

And given that troll corpses are not known for breaking down into hundreds of little trolls, I really doubt the appropriateness of a piece of dead troll miraculously turning into several complete mini (and live) trolls in the stomach of anything.

But then with R.A. Salvator, you really should expect ass pulls like that, I guess.

[holywhippet]

A) maybe stomach acid is too weak to count?

According to wikipedia, gastric acid has a pH of about 1-2. That's pretty corrosive.

[dgnslyr]

But isn't it diluted when actually in the stomach?

[Marnath]

Not particularly, really.

And given that troll corpses are not known for breaking down into hundreds of little trolls, I really doubt the appropriateness of a piece of dead troll miraculously turning into several complete mini (and live) trolls in the stomach of anything.

But then with R.A. Salvator, you really should expect ass pulls like that, I guess.

I don't remember what book that happened in, so I'll have to take your word for it that it didn't make sense.


According to wikipedia, gastric acid has a pH of about 1-2. That's pretty corrosive.

Pssh, you and your science. Would you like a shovel to bury those catgirls with?:smallwink:

[Feliks878]

As was hinted at by Tehnar, there's a named character in Warhammer Fantasy Battle that ate some troll. He was a goblin named Grom, I believe. The troll continued to expand inside him (it's worth noting that regeneration as a rule in WHFB is usually only overcome by fire damage) giving him a constantly expanding stomach and rather nasty flatulence. He was the best character ever.

Also, in the Roguelike game Nethack, eating a dead troll was one of the safest ways to prevent it from regenerating. Either that, or tinning it and eating it later.

But coming up with a 4th Ed custom disease isn't too hard, in general. Just look at a similar level disease for the guidelines, and roll with it, doing something funny. If the meat was raw, I'd say this is totally a way to go. Cooked though...meh. Probably safe. I've made custom diseases for 4th a few times, it's actually really fun. Some effects like "Gains Regeneration 5 (if the inflicted individual takes acid or fire damage, regeneration does not function until the end of its next turn), loses one healing surge, gains vulnerable fire 10, etc." Having a disease have bad and good effects is kind of interesting, as long as it works towards a bad end (death, helplessness, etc.)

[holywhippet]

Pssh, you and your science. Would you like a shovel to bury those catgirls with?:smallwink:

Well, it's kind of dubious coming up with the whole "eat troll, bad things happen" rule since nothing in the books supports it. I could imagine it working in 2nd edition, or maybe third but 4th isn't really geared towards stuff like that.

If nothing else though, I really don't like the idea of eating a troll making you gain regeneration. That kind of power shouldn't be readily given or easy to come by as it's very valuable to the player.

[Feliks878]

If nothing else though, I really don't like the idea of eating a troll making you gain regeneration. That kind of power shouldn't be readily given or easy to come by as it's very valuable to the player.

You're probably right, but in my mind it would come with some pretty severe penalties as well - strong enough to make it a Bad Idea. As long as the disease made you weaker when you failed, giving you some trollish abilities like Regeneration but eating up all of your healing surges, or reducing your total number of hitpoints, huge attack/damage penalties, etc, eventually culminating in a painful death.

[Tiki Snakes]

On balance I really do think that the only valid response is neither significant penalty, nor significant bonus.

Food poisoning is really the only valid response that isn't hilariously over-dramatic, completely without precedent or generally nuts.

There's nothing super magic involved, it's just a chunk of dead meat that wasn't prepared quite as carefully as it could have been. Feeling sick (a small penalty) is a decent starting point, if it gets worse on the next check then you should be looking at the weakened state and if it goes bad enough, the end-point is severe de-hydration and eventually death.
But it shouldn't reach that unless she receives no attention at all, I can't see any justification for particularly high DC's.

Mad Bonuses or Penalties just aren't justified based on the act itself. If they are given, it would basically be a reaction to the player/character more than a genuine reaction to what actually happened.

[Ernir]

Does 4E have filth fever? Sounds appropriate.

Also, troll meat has to be the worst meat ever. Seriously, it is more likely than not to have grown in a matter of minutes as a result of a manticore chewing off its leg at some point. It probably has the firmness and texture of a sock full of jello. :smallsigh:

[Grelna the Blue]

If you want to do something more flavorful than simple indigestion (which seems the most likely result to me), you could say that if he makes a check to avoid hurling from the foul and disgusting taste, he gets a temporary bonus to Strength and the ability to track by smell.

If this causes the character to regularly nosh on troll for the benefits, make it addictive. The PC doesn't have to know until he's suddenly jonesing for his next fix.

Incidentally, in my game trolls are a servitor race that has been so heavily bioengineered with forbidden magics that they would have the texture and taste of oily plastic. Fire doesn't burn them--it melts them.

[FoE]

Why was the Troll poisoned? :smallconfused:

The troll wasn't poisoned, but troll flesh contains a number of toxins that normally renders it inedible. You can actually prepare it for consumption, but it's still incredibly unappetizing.

Why not replicate the effects of botulism? It begins with double vision (negative attack modifier) and paralysis of the facial muscles (negative modifier to all Bluff, Intimidation and Persuasion checks). The paralysis then spreads outward to the limbs, which eventually leads to the player becoming completely immobilized.

[FelixG]

The troll wasn't poisoned, but troll flesh contains a number of toxins that normally renders it inedible. You can actually prepare it for consumption, but it's still incredibly unappetizing.

Source? doesn't sound like anything I have read.

[Tiki Snakes]

Does 4E have filth fever? Sounds appropriate.

Also, troll meat has to be the worst meat ever. Seriously, it is more likely than not to have grown in a matter of minutes as a result of a manticore chewing off its leg at some point. It probably has the firmness and texture of a sock full of jello. :smallsigh:

4e does indeed have filth fever.
Trolls do not carry it.

The comments on meat-texture et cetera, however, make perfect sense to me, and I approve. It's unlikely to be particularly gormet at the best of times.

[FoE]

Source? doesn't sound like anything I have read.

I'm quoting an article that was written some time ago about the city of Graywall, which is located in the Eberron setting.

The city of Graywall doesn't yet have sufficient agricultural production or trade to feed its population, so the government supplement its food supply with "grist," whcih is ground-up troll meat. It involves peeling the flesh off a troll's body slowly enough to allow it to regenerate — a fairly excrutiating process for the troll — and then treating the flesh with special herbs to render it edible, since troll flesh is normally toxic. Unappetizing, but filling.

[Roderick_BR]

2 - Naughty DM route;
She's cooked it carefully and eaten it, but that doesn't make the food edible. The disease she is tracking is, infact, food poisoning. The only question is, can she hold it down long enough not to come down with explosive diarrhea during the ceremony.
This. She should get sick as if she had eaten rotten food T(with troll meat being REALLY unedible for eladrins). I don't see why eating a monster should cause some special magical effect other than the DM being nasty.
At worst, have a poison effect last for some days, giving some stats penalties, until her metabolism can process it out. (pointing back to the explosive diarrhea idea),

[Le-vante]

Grom FTW.

I only know of two RAS books that involve trolls one in the Hunters blade trio, one in the icewindale set.


Also would troll meat count as White or Red? Since it's my understanding that red meat never actualy disolves in a humans stomache and rather decays instead? (hence the bloted "fall asleep on the sofa" feeling) could be wrong though.

[JonRG]

In the BoVD, there's a disease called Blue Guts, which is contracted from eating particularly disgusting creatures (an earlier cannibalism blurb mentions trolls). Incubation is 1d3 days and it does 1d4 Str damage. Plus the skin of the afflicted turns blue(ish), especially around the abdomen.

Nothing that's going to outright kill the character, but something to deter them from ever making the same mistake again. :smallamused:

[randomhero00]

I don't see why there'd be any consequences. Especially anything positive. Otherwise that stuff would be all over the black market and be widespread. I also don't see a reason for any diseases unless you roll a % and that particular troll happens to have one that survived the fire. Once their dead its just flesh.

Give them vomiting/diarehea at the most.

[Sipex]

You also have to take into account:

Did the players roll a good enough nature check on the troll any time before hand to know that one can contract X disease from eating their flesh?

I'm not saying it's something you should've mentioned at the time of roll but if they did roll well (I'd say 25) it should have come up before the player ate it. You know "You sure you want to eat that troll? Due to the roll you made earlier you know that it's generally not a good idea because of this disease you can get."

[Le-vante]

If the Pc did get some cool abilities from eating the troll you'd probably end up having the whole party tuck in to random monsters.

Gelatinous cube for afters anyone?

[Kylarra]

I'm seeing any consequences more serious than the whole indigestion/lesser food poisoning to be a case of overreaction personally. It's not that big of a deal and comes off as more fiat than anything else.

[Grelna the Blue]

If the Pc did get some cool abilities from eating the troll you'd probably end up having the whole party tuck in to random monsters.

Gelatinous cube for afters anyone?

Sounds like the start of some freakish PrC that belongs in the BoVD:


Random PC: Mm--mincemeat pie for dinner again? Is there any taste it can't disguise?

Party Cook: We're gonna find out--remember those ghasts?

Random PC: Hopefully their stench ability lasts longer on us than what we got from those trogs...

[John Campbell]

Also, in the Roguelike game Nethack, eating a dead troll was one of the safest ways to prevent it from regenerating. Either that, or tinning it and eating it later.
Having a carnivorous pet eat it is better; things eaten by pets are removed from the game immediately, even if the pet spends several turns "eating", so there's no partially-eaten trolls reviving that way. Personally, my favorite method is chucking the corpses into water, just so I can laugh at them when they drown. Doesn't work on water trolls, though.

Gelatinous cube is dangerous eating - poisonous and acidic. It's full of tasty intrinsics, though... you can pick up immunity to fire, cold, shock, and sleep from eating it.


It's actually come up in our (Pathfinder) game that the common method my half-orc's clan uses for disposing of trolls is eating them. Starting a fire big enough to cremate corpses is time-consuming and highly visible... why go through that hassle when everyone's carrying around a container of acid inside them, and you can fill the bellies of your boyz and their war-beasts into the bargain? I mean, you really don't want those dire wolves getting hungry...

[Le-vante]

Gelatinous cube is dangerous eating - poisonous and acidic. It's full of tasty intrinsics, though... you can pick up immunity to fire, cold, shock, and sleep from eating it.





Brings a brandnew meaning to "Heart burn". Hate to see the fist sized Rennie you'd need for that.

[awa]

i agree their is no reason to punish the player for their action particularly if the troll was cooked. i say nothing should happen it not like they ate an aberration.

[Escheton]

There are no troll- or hydra-burger franchises are there? Then it's probably not good eating.

[Mercenary Pen]

Sounds like the start of some freakish PrC that belongs in the BoVD:

I think there's something very similar in the homebrew section somewhere...