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AtlanteanTroll
2010-12-09, 06:47 PM
As people know (or so I presume), Christmas is coming up. I have recently started a new campaign, and am becoming intriuged with Pathfiner. And, as we aren't far in at all yet, it'd be easy to convert my players. Is it worth it to buy a Pathfinder Guide? Why is it better? Is it easy to convert? If I don't buy the bestiary, can I still use monsters from my Monster Manual?

Starbuck_II
2010-12-09, 07:01 PM
As people know (or so I presume), Christmas is coming up. I have recently started a new campaign, and am becoming intriuged with Pathfiner. And, as we aren't far in at all yet, it'd be easy to convert my players. Is it worth it to buy a Pathfinder Guide? Why is it better? Is it easy to convert? If I don't buy the bestiary, can I still use monsters from my Monster Manual?

Yes, you could use MM creatures. Note that there will be conversions required.

Polymorph (and its extended family Alter Self) has been changed: it is now Stat bonus not full Stat exchange.
So Druids can't dump Str in Wild Shape.

Instead of Grapple/trip/sunder checks (and so on) you have to work out CMD (Defense) and CM (whatever the attacking one was).

Simpler to figure out bonus, but they also lowered the normal bonuses (size gives less now, feats give les bonus) so harder to achieve sometimes.

I can't say better: but I can say it gives more abilities to each class (well, except Bard has rd/music instead of daily. This means less rd in comparison sadly since music last till stopped in 3.5. And Barb now has to work out Rage/rd instead of rage/day).

I personally just use PSRD instead of buying primary book:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/
And PSRDd20
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

I say Adanced Player's Guide is best book to buy: it has lovely alternate class features that seemed to me worth it.

klemdakherzbag
2010-12-09, 07:49 PM
Pathfinder is worth it if you dont have much invested into 3.5, or have more liquid assets than I do.(In which case, pm me for the address to send me money:)

Personally, I didnt have any 3.5 material so I bought into Pathfinder and have found that most of the material is compatible with 3.5 if you take the time to make sure it is compatible.

Aron Times
2010-12-09, 07:55 PM
I'll be the first to voice dissent and say that you're better off getting 4e. Pathfinder isn't different enough from 3.5 to justify its cost, and it's nowhere near as streamlined and balanced as 4e.

Yuki Akuma
2010-12-09, 08:01 PM
In my completely unbiased opinion that is in no way coloured by the fact that Paizo's forum is filled with a bunch of jerks, I shall say that no, it isn't.

It's sold as a 'fix' for D&D 3.5 without actually addressing half the things that needed fixing and nerfing things that didn't need to be depowered.

DeltaEmil
2010-12-09, 08:02 PM
I'm pro-4th edition and find it superior to any incarnation of 3.x.

However, pathfinder does have a free srd.

So, if money's an issue, and you find normal 3.5 to be somewhat lacking and want to go , you can have 3.75 (or pathfinder, in this case). And if you don't like it, you can still go back to 3.5, until you have the money for 4.x, which might or might not be to your liking.

Show
2010-12-09, 08:06 PM
I tried it, but it just didn't seem to satisfy. Perhaps it was just the campaign, but there is something missing. Very little was changed, and since my DM didn't allow 3.5 material except on a very select basis, I had few feats to choose from. It was painfully agonizing.
It is probably just a matter of opinion, though.

RebelRogue
2010-12-09, 08:06 PM
It's really just a bunch of houserules, it seems. More options for players (some look cool), but not what it promised to be as far as I can tell. I haven't played it, though, just looked through some of the rules. Personally, I think I'd just stick with ordinary 3.5 (or go 4e).

Psyren
2010-12-09, 08:16 PM
It's worth it if people around you play. If not, skip it.

However, their psionics are shaping up nicely (thanks to the wonderful ministrations of the DSP crew) so I'm leaning towards them more by the day.

Enix18
2010-12-09, 11:15 PM
I would definitely recommend Pathfinder. I've been playing v3.5 for a few years and have invested a ton of money into supplements and gaming accessories, but this didn't make the switch very difficult at all. The fact is that v3.5 and Pathfinder are completely compatible. Many things require a bit of conversion, but the conversions are very simple to do, so you can still use any and all of your v3.5 material.

As other people have said, it does not fix the many balance issues that v3.5 had. If balance is all you really want then you can go to 4e, but however much I enjoy the new system I cannot deny that it's much slower and offers many fewer options than a good game of Pathfinder. My gaming group doesn't have any optimizers or power gamers, just a bunch of people there to have fun, so the lack of a remedy for all the balance issues wasn't really a problem at all. We just enjoyed the fact that Pathfinder brought plenty of new ideas and new energy to our D&D games.

If you want to, you could try using the Pathfinder SRD (which is free to access online) as a means to test run the rules before deciding whether or not to invest your money into them. However, in my opinion, Pathfinder is without a doubt worth every penny—it's certainly helped to reinvigorate my gaming group.

Grifthin
2010-12-10, 12:04 AM
Pathfinder is fantastic. We switched from 3.5 to pure pathfinder earlier this year and it's one of the best changes we could have made. I've now bought all the pathfinder books and i'm very happy I did.

Typewriter
2010-12-10, 05:50 AM
A long time ago I started a thread detailing some of the changes from 3.5 to PF. I never completed it, but you may want to take a look anyway:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125863&highlight=pathfinder

NOTE: Make sure not to post in that thread as it is very old, and would be the very definition of thread necromancy.

Short answer: My group loves it. We tried going to 4th edition, and now I have 100 dollars in 4E books that I use as paper weights.

In the core PF game we have more options available to us. In overall 3.5 we had more options, but it got to be too much of a hassle to maintain, especially with Wizards putting out so many books that unbalance each other. So far PF has had two 'player' books, with a third on the way, and they seem to work well with each other. Haven't seen any feats come out that totally unhinge things from the previous.

Ragitsu
2010-12-10, 05:59 AM
Very much worth it.

FelixG
2010-12-10, 06:12 AM
Totally worth it. It made me happy after 4E was utterly depressing.

and the Advanced Players Guide is a great book, it has many fun options in there

Saph
2010-12-10, 06:23 AM
Here's a guide on what's changed. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136890)

It's worth having a look at - there are several minor improvements from 3.5, and it's a fairly well-designed system.

Amiel
2010-12-10, 07:31 AM
I really recommend Pathfinder, especially if you like reading well-written fluff; I've thoroughly enjoyed all the PF supplements I own to date, and each has been exceedingly well developed and designed, and crafted with a fresh perspective on tired old traditions.

The mechanics aren't bad either; all of PF core is available within the PRD (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/), so I'd recommend purchasing the Advanced Player's Guide as has been suggested, and the Pathfinder Chronicles supplements, now known as the Pathfinder Campaign Setting line of supplements.

TalonDemonKing
2010-12-10, 08:20 AM
I find that Pathfinder has strong improvement for melee types; esp for core classes. Alot of cool stuff around; Sorcerer bloodlines, Barbarian rage powers, rogue tricks, fighter's get a specific pool of feats to grab from. The advanced players guide is cool too.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-12-10, 08:33 AM
It's worth it if people around you play. If not, skip it.

This is the fundamental point. Pathfinder is great, 3.5 is great, and I haven't played 4e but everything I see from reliable internet sources suggests that it's great. Play whatever lets you connect with your local gamers.

Zeta Kai
2010-12-10, 09:03 AM
It's worth it if people around you play. If not, skip it.

This is the best answer so far. No one can tell you what you local gaming scene is like unless they're right there with you, in the trenches so to speak. I know places where 4E is a joke & 3.X is the only game in town, & other spots where 3.X is all but forgotten & 4E has become the default. There are gaming scenes where Pathfinder is the banner of the new gaming paradigm, & other places where even mentioning Paizo will get you the stink eye. The base is more thoroughly broken than it has been in years, with no sign of reunification in sight.

For my two cents, I'd say that PF is worth a look, but don't invest in it until you have determined whether it's right for you & your players. Dip you toes in, see how the waters feel, & if you like it, then take the plunge. No one's making you dive in, so go at your own pace, & stay near the shore until your ready to swim (to drive the analogy into the ground).

Also, don't be afraid to houserule & homebrew, regardless of your chosen system. The only set of rules that is perfect for your group are the ones that you made yourself.

warmachine
2010-12-10, 09:23 AM
Pathfinder addresses balance problems a bit but fails to address the fundamental problem of Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard. IMHO, the real strength of Pathfinder is the published campaigns.

Malisteen
2010-12-10, 11:54 AM
PF is like going from 3.0 to 3.5 - enough is the same that they can claim it's compatible, but enough has changed that it isn't really true. Some of the changes to the game are improvements, but to me it's not worth cutting yourself off from the wealth of content available for 3.5.

Like any rpg, it's value is entirely dependant on your access to good natured gamers who play it. If the gamers in your area play 3.5, don't bother. If they play 4.0, don't bother. If they play WoD, don't bother. But if they play pathfinder, then it's an ok game. I prefer 4e for balance, or 3.5 for its wealth of player options, but PF is still a decent game.

Tetsubo 57
2010-12-10, 12:11 PM
I'll be the first to voice dissent and say that you're better off getting 4e. Pathfinder isn't different enough from 3.5 to justify its cost, and it's nowhere near as streamlined and balanced as 4e.

And we're off the rails...

Tetsubo 57
2010-12-10, 12:12 PM
I own a *lot* of 3.5 books and I love Pathfinder. I also like a lot of the third party stuff I have read for Pathfinder. If you love D&D, I consider PF a must have.

elpollo
2010-12-10, 12:26 PM
It depends. If you're purely switching to try and balance 3.5 then no, it's not. If you're switching to play a 3.X incarnation that is still being supported and has new material offered then yeah, it probably is. I personally haven't bothered - 3.5 has more than enough material for me, especially with the various homebrewers around, and I prefer to write my own campaigns.

Elfin
2010-12-10, 12:26 PM
Personally, I don't find Pathfinder all that great; it's slightly more balanced than 3.5, but not by all that much. While the published campaigns are great, as far as rules go I'd just take what you like from the PF SRD. If you're looking for a really balanced system, try 4e - it really isn't too bad, even though it doesn't run much to my taste.

molten_dragon
2010-12-10, 01:17 PM
Add my name to the list of people saying it isn't worth it. It didn't fix enough of the problems with 3.5 to be worth the money just as a fix, and it isn't different enough to stand on it's own.

Nero24200
2010-12-10, 01:27 PM
If you're willing to homebrew a little, stick with 3.5. It has it's problems, but so does Pathfinder, it just has different problems.

LordBlades
2010-12-10, 02:06 PM
I'm also of the opinion that Pathfinder isn't really worth it. It's not a bad game per se, but it just isn't different enough. It fixes some problems 3.5 had, but not enough of them (and it adds it's own brand new set of problems) to be called a better game.

true_shinken
2010-12-10, 02:20 PM
Personally, I don't find Pathfinder all that great; it's slightly more balanced than 3.5, but not by all that much. While the published campaigns are great, as far as rules go I'd just take what you like from the PF SRD. If you're looking for a really balanced system, try 4e - it really isn't too bad, even though it doesn't run much to my taste.

The OP never mentioned any balance issues.

I am planning on buying Pathfinder books myself. Lots of my friends have already converted to it, even. Pathfinder has more material, mostly compatible with the game I like the most and they write fluff quite well. So I suggest you really do give it a go. WotC is not publishing 3.5 anymore, so if you like 3.5, Pathfinder is your best choice, specially since finding 3.5 books is becoming very difficult (it's almost impossible here in Brazil, at least).

DisgruntledDM
2010-12-10, 02:29 PM
You can still use the old MM, but keep in mind, the PC classes are more powerful in Pathfinder, with all their new abilities and such.

Also, if you liked Kits from 2E, the Advanced Player's Guide basically brings them back.

Honestly, If I'd known of Iron Heroes before I bought Pathfinder, I woulda bought IH instead, but that's just because I love low-magic games.

Gametime
2010-12-10, 02:29 PM
If you already have a substantial collection of 3.5 books, you certainly don't need Pathfinder. On the other hand, pretty much all Pathfinder material is available online, for free, so it's worth perusing to see if there are rules you'd like to adopt.

If you just use 3.5 core, or are just about to get into 3.5, then I'd strongly suggest replacing core with PF core or investing in Pathfinder instead. It is a better system, in almost every appreciable way, but not to such a degree that it's an absolute necessity. It's not really worth the cost of the books to "upgrade" an existing 3.5 game, but if you're going to start fresh it's as good a place as any.

randomhero00
2010-12-10, 02:38 PM
OP

shrug, they've fixed a few things. Its worth it to some. At least druids aren't so insane now. And their advance pathfinder guide has some interesting classes in it.

edit: also the campaign setting is quite interesting.

doctor_wu
2010-12-10, 02:50 PM
What gaming system you play should really be what you and your group have the most fun with.

Yes you can get it for free on the srd and check out and see if you like the rules and changes and maybe play a one off game and see if you like it. If it is worth the cost is really up to you and depends if you have fun. If everyone says a game is fun and you hate it why are you playing that game?

Golarion is an awesome setting I think and it seriously awesome and it has a wiki for the campaign setting. Hell you could play 3.5 or 4th in Golarion if you really wanted to. 4th will require more houseruling. Some people play pathfinder in Eberron.

Ultimately the decision is yours.

Ailurus
2010-12-10, 02:51 PM
Most of my experiences with pathfinder have been positive, but as several people have said you can get by pretty good with the online SRD, especially if you're familiar with the basics of the rules from 3.5.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-12-11, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the response. For now, I think I'll use the Pathfinder SRD, as the class improvements are one of things I'm most interested in for now. Maybe later I'll buy the books, depending on how a test run goes.

As for 4E, well, this:




Short answer: My group loves it. We tried going to 4th edition, and now I have 100 dollars in 4E books that I use as paper weights.

happened to me. So, NO. Though, there is some stuff in there I'd like to try and convert down to 3.5, but I see that as nigh impossible.

Akal Saris
2010-12-11, 05:43 PM
I'm glad all the feedback helped you with the decision :)

If you get a chance and have the $$, I highly recommend the PF adventure paths (series of modules). They are very well-written and organized, certainly some of the best I've ever worked with as a DM. They were my main motivation for converting to PF rules.

Amiel
2010-12-12, 04:56 AM
Thanks for the response. For now, I think I'll use the Pathfinder SRD, as the class improvements are one of things I'm most interested in for now. Maybe later I'll buy the books, depending on how a test run goes.

No worries :) Hopefully you really like PF.

Even if you have no one to game with you (like me, all of my friends who roleplay play 4e), you'll probably derive immense enjoyment from reading the fluff of the many supplements on offer. Paizo's Golarion setting greatly appealed to me even though I would never get the chance to game in their world.
Reading their supplements is like reading a well crafted story.

Acanous
2010-12-12, 05:10 AM
Pathfinder is OK. I generally treat it as another 3.5 splatbook rather than it's own system, but it can be played as a stand alone.

Really, it's pretty well written and easy to navigate. Just inform your players on what's allowed and what isn't upon game generation.
Have a game going now where at creation the DM said anything from 3.5 was OK to use, then changed his mind at lv 6 to "Pathfinder core only". Totally annihilated my character, handicapped my concept and left me rather embittered :/

Lord_Gareth
2010-12-12, 05:15 AM
I didn't think it was worth it. Some of the design decisions were...highly less than intelligent, and frankly I found their claims to be fixing 3.5 to be both offensive and wrong. Wait for Fax's D20 Rebirth and then download the PDF - he's giving it away free.

AtlanteanTroll
2010-12-12, 12:50 PM
No worries :) Hopefully you really like PF.

Even if you have no one to game with you (like me, all of my friends who roleplay play 4e), you'll probably derive immense enjoyment from reading the fluff of the many supplements on offer. Paizo's Golarion setting greatly appealed to me even though I would never get the chance to game in their world.
Reading their supplements is like reading a well crafted story.

Well, I have a 3.5 game going, but we're really early on (just about to hit 2nd levek), so it wouldn't be that hard to convert.


Pathfinder is OK. I generally treat it as another 3.5 splatbook rather than it's own system, but it can be played as a stand alone.

Really, it's pretty well written and easy to navigate. Just inform your players on what's allowed and what isn't upon game generation.
Have a game going now where at creation the DM said anything from 3.5 was OK to use, then changed his mind at lv 6 to "Pathfinder core only". Totally annihilated my character, handicapped my concept and left me rather embittered :/

Well, I enjoy the Splatbooks I do have for 3.5, so I'd just try and convert stuff.

true_shinken
2010-12-12, 12:58 PM
Pathfinder is OK. I generally treat it as another 3.5 splatbook rather than it's own system, but it can be played as a stand alone.

That's how I roll as well.

Elfin
2010-12-12, 01:08 PM
The OP never mentioned any balance issues.


He didn't, but as the he's considering buying and converting to Pathfinder, balance is still something to consider - especially since one of PF's major claims is that it improves 3.5's balance.
(Which it does, just not by that much.)

Amiel
2010-12-15, 06:33 AM
Paizo have been kind and generous enough to update their PRD; it now references and contains content from both the Gamemastery Guide and the Advanced Players Guide.