Does the magic enhancement bonus to armor from a shield can be used for shield bash?

[Guchalez]

I know the shield bonus can't be used but can the magic one?
I'm Dming a game and one of my player's wants to use two-weapon fighting with improved shield bash to keep his shield bonus to AC, now this is a magic shield, does the enhancement bonus apply to the attack?

[Marnath]

No, the enhancement does not apply to bashing. You can however also enchant it seperately as a weapon.

[erikun]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#shieldLightWoodenorSteel


An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

[Guchalez]

That's what I was afraid of. What if is has the defending property?

[DeltaEmil]

Then your shield would first need to be a +1-shield at minimum, and you could get the separate enhancement bonus that is used for attacking as a defense bonus, but the price of the shield would soar in exorbitant ranges not really worth it.

So a +1-shield with a +1-magic weapon enhancement and defending property costs the same as a +3-shield...

[erikun]

That's what I was afraid of. What if is has the defending property?
Defending is a weapon properity, so you can't add it to the (defensive) part of a shield.

One of my favorite shields to use is a +5 Bashing/+5 Defending shield, or a +5 Bashing shield with +5 Defending shield spikes. You get some nice bonuses to shield bashing (an increase in three sizes) and can switch it to a +10 defensive enchantment when needed. Two +6 enhancement items are cheaper than a single +10 item, at that!

I prefer shield "rivets" - identical to shield spikes, but bludgeoning - along with a locked gauntlet. Just personal taste, though.

[Guchalez]

But if it's enchanted just as a weapon with the defending property.
Like a wizard going into the weapon shop:
W: I'm making a +3 defending kukri. I need a MW kukri.
ShopKeeper: Sorry sir, we are all out of kukris. How about a MW light shield?
W: OK I can try that.

So now he can use the shield for defending or attacking not both at the same time. Sure the cost for a magic weapon is more than a magic shield, but that way you get a weapon and a shield.

[erikun]

But if it's enchanted just as a weapon with the defending property.
Like a wizard going into the weapon shop:
W: I'm making a +3 defending kukri. I need a MW kukri.
ShopKeeper: Sorry sir, we are all out of kukris. How about a MW light shield?
W: OK I can try that.

So now he can use the shield for defending or attacking not both at the same time. Sure the cost for a magic weapon is more than a magic shield, but that way you get a weapon and a shield.
Well, there is the problem that your wizard isn't proficient in the light shield, and thus would take penalities for wearing one. It would also be cheaper to have a simple +3 Light Shield rather than a +3 Defending Kukri anyways. You also don't need to assign the Defending bonus, so it is still active if you don't notice the attack coming.

You could make a +3 Light Shield with +3 Defending, of course, but that would be more expensive.

[Guchalez]

Well you can "choose" to always be on defending unless said otherwise.
Now this:

and can switch it to a +10 defensive enchantment when needed.
The DM guide says the bonus from the defending weapon stacks; but I think that's wrong, the defending property comes from shield of faith or shield wich means it gives a shield bonus to AC (that should say in the DM guide) and it shouldn't stack with your other shield bonus to AC.
If you were a player in my campaing I'd say sorry dude you can't do that:smallconfused:.

[erikun]

So the Defending properity is a shield bonus in your game? Makes sense, although I'm not sure why you'd ask about the Defending properity on a shield when your DM has ruled that it won't work.

PS. Shield of Faith is a deflection bonus, similar to the Ring of Protection, not a shield bonus.

[Kylarra]

Well you can "choose" to always be on defending unless said otherwise.
Now this:

The DM guide says the bonus from the defending weapon stacks; but I think that's wrong, the defending property comes from shield of faith or shield wich means it gives a shield bonus to AC (that should say in the DM guide) and it shouldn't stack with your other shield bonus to AC.
If you were a player in my campaing I'd say sorry dude you can't do that:smallconfused:.Shield of Faith (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shieldOfFaith.htm) grants a deflection bonus to AC though, so that logic is kind of weird at best.

edit:swordsaged

[Marnath]

They're right, it should work fine. It'd be too expensive to be worthwhile, but it would work.

[Guchalez]

I guess you're right but that leaves some questions unresolved.
If a wizard makes a defending weapon it gives a shield bonus to AC and if a cleric does it it gives a deflection bonus?
S if a wizard made it you can't combine it with a shield and if a cleric made it you can't combine it with a ring of protection?

[Kylarra]

by RAW it stacks with anything as an untyped bonus and frankly that's generally not overpowered unless you start allowing multiple defending items.

[JaronK]

Even then, multiple defending items gets really expensive really fast, unless you're spamming Greater Magic Weapon all over the place.

JaronK