Emberverse

[Demon 997]

Has anyone else read any of the Emberverse series? First one is Dies the Fire, by S.M. Stirling.

Basic premise is that all modern tech just stops working. Gunpowder doesn't expand fast enough to be useful, an internal combustion motor just doesn't work, neither does electricity, or steam. The book is about the consequences of that event and trying to survive and rebuild. Its set in Oregon.

I'd say its a good fun book, through certainly not literature. I'd recommend it to the playground, it has good characters, and an interesting plot. The later ones (To the Sunrise Lands onwards) get kind of predictable at least in broad plot points. They seem to be well researched, at least to my limited knowledge of the subjects.

Since the playground seems to love figuring out what they'd do in Apocalypse's, how would you deal with this one?

Personally I think I could sell my services as a tactician to an aspiring warlord. I know a bunch of medieval military history, and I think I have some grasp of real world tactics. I'd learn fast enough at any rate. I don't have any real experience with a sword but I have a lot more than you're average person. I also own one, which is a massive advantage. I also know a few very capable people, people I could probably convince to drag me along. Barring that I could probably organize my school into a band of semi feral coast raiders.

[Mikeavelli]

Eh, that happening would mean tens of millions of people would die within a few months from starvation. Or post-starvation rioting, just here in the states. The current world population absolutely depends on modern technology. Without engines, there'd be no way of shipping enough food into most major cities to support their populations. Without modern technology, the quantity of food grown and harvested would fall dramatically on top of that.

Fortunately, I don't think our world would descend into dark-ages style living. The US military would likely remain coherent, and post-crisis order would likely come from them. Leadership in the short term would most likely be taken by the commanding officers of local military bases, who would then extend out to bring order to as much territory as possible. From here on out, it would depend a lot on the individual character of those officers, and civilian leadership..

Does a military dictatorship get established, indefinite martial law followed by a de-facto "king" of a small kingdom? Is democracy demanded by the people and granted? These are the things that a story is made out of.

[hr]

As for what I would do? I'd pack up as much food as I could, some mechanical engineering books (my current major in College is Electrical Engineering, but that wouldn't be worth much in the post-crisis world - I figure I can learn enough to be useful just from the books though), and start hiking \ biking out towards farming country is what I'd do. I live out in Washington, so there's a fair amount of it a few hundred miles east of where I live.

Most people in the world wouldn't immediately realized how ****ed they are staying in cities or suburbs that can't possible support them, and by the time it sinks in, it'll already be too late for them. Wait it out in the fields for a few years, learn to farm (without modern machinery, farming is going to get a LOT more labor intensive, which means there'll be plenty of work to be had) - and chill out there for a few years.

Persuade farmers to enact a "you work, you eat" policy, vigorously defend ourselves from "raiders" and move in to start rebuilding the cities once everything calms down.

[DomaDoma]

Having read this series, I can safely say I'd be completely screwed. To get to arable land in my area, I've got to go through a sizable city, and I have no preindustrial skills whatsoever. (Unless you count keeping a fire going after you've already used matches and newspaper.)

[pffh]

Has anyone else read any of the Emberverse series? First one is Dies the Fire, by S.M. Stirling.

Basic premise is that all modern tech just stops working. Gunpowder doesn't expand fast enough to be useful, an internal combustion motor just doesn't work, neither does electricity, or steam.

How does steam not work? Also what about other chemical reactions if most of the more basic stuff still works I could sell my chemistry and medical knowledge to an aspiring warlord.

[Tazar]

I really like the Emberverse, but I am absolutely fed up with CUT.


Any faction that gets moddy powers that the other factions don't have is annoying by default, but CUT is just getting ridiculous. Taking entire PPA castles simply by mind-controlling some guy and having him open the gate? Come on.


Anyways, definitely read these books if a) you like post-apocalyptic fiction or b) you like medieval stuff.

Steam and any other stuff that's more technologically advanced than the Middle Ages would have had (including gunpowder) doesn't function, because of Alien Space Bats. That's the explanation given by the characters, who are at a loss to explain why it happened. :smallbiggrin:

Also, the island of Nantucket went into the far past, with all of its technology, and the far past Nantucket went into the present day.

[Demon 997]

How does steam not work? Also what about other chemical reactions if most of the more basic stuff still works I could sell my chemistry and medical knowledge to an aspiring warlord.

I believe its that steam can't get to high enough pressure, but as Tazar said the characters don't really know why. I believe chemistry is unaffected with the exceptions of gunpowder and other explosives.


On CUT
My annoyance (that I'm pretty much over) is that it went from being a series with no or very very little magic, to one with some. Its not better or worse, but it was unexpected. Powers do equalize some in the latest book.

[Tazar]

Yeah, the magic did pretty much come out of nowhere; it was medieval battles, medieval battles, medieval battles, satan-possessed priests. Kind of an abrupt transition.


That said, I do like the warrior-priests and am hoping they get equally epic in return.

[DomaDoma]

I realized I was reading a fantasy series when I read that scene between Rudi and Epona. By the time we got to the CUT, it seemed like a perfectly natural expansion on the Pope Leo thing.

The High Seekers should really save their boldface for when they seriously want their opponents to crap their pants, though. The way they gratuitously throw it around just devalues it as currency.

[Demon 997]

Yeah the magic is starting to show up too much. I'm also finding that while I still really want to read the next two books, I know exactly what will happen, at least as far a major plot points go.

I'm really not sure how well I'd do. I've got some some survival skills (or at least am much better equipped to pick up those skills quickly) and while I'm not in great condition I could become so very quickly if I had too. I'm in a small town, which while close enough to cities to make life uncomfortable, means I do have a chance. We'll also the largest wooden boat community in the northwest (bonus points if that tells you want town I live in). We can also make them with hand tools. If a mass exodus got organized we'd probably do pretty well as fisherman and raiders.

The interest in medieval warfare only serves me if I could join someone who wanted to forge a kingdom, not keep some town from starving. Someone else would be better for training a town militia, since they need that experience now and I have no practical experience. With a warlord he (or she) can afford to feed me while he puts me through whatever officer training school is getting set up.

I think I have the friends and equipment that gives me a shot at getting to wherever that warlord is. I'd just need good information (hopefully enough to tell an arminger from that Duke whatever his name was the bearkillers killed). It would also really help if wherever I'm going is accessible by boat.

[Tazar]

I'd want to be a member of Boise lead by Frederick Thurston; there's just something so badass about a fusion of the Roman military and US Army.

[Demon 997]

It could only get better with the addition of bear calvary (people riding bears or bears riding horses? you decide!) but I have to agree with Stirling on the likely fate of most of the U.S. military. It's the loss of communication that would hurt them the most. They'd just start helping people or wait for orders that'll never come. A lot of them would leave to protect their families. Bits might stay together (and possibly pull some towns through) but only in remote areas.

[DomaDoma]

Talking of communication - why is there no semaphore telegraph? I mean, if we're going to have awesome innovations like pedal-powered airships and the hippomotive, why are signal fires out of the question?

[Demon 997]

Long term stuff like that probably isn't. Its just that right after the change most military units are going to get slaughtered by the hordes around them. They have no idea what happened, so would probably try to function in an emergency services role while they wait for help to show up. Then they starve when the food runs out. I imagine a few units did very well if they're commanders realized what was happening and got them and their families out.

There's also the fact that modern military training teaches stuff thats bad for you in medieval combat.

EDIT: Oh you meant in the long term. Probably because he hasn't thought of it or it would mess up his plot.

[G-Man Graves]

Eh, that happening would mean tens of millions of people would die within a few months from starvation. Or post-starvation rioting, just here in the states. The current world population absolutely depends on modern technology. Without engines, there'd be no way of shipping enough food into most major cities to support their populations. Without modern technology, the quantity of food grown and harvested would fall dramatically on top of that.

This happens.


Fortunately, I don't think our world would descend into dark-ages style living. The US military would likely remain coherent, and post-crisis order would likely come from them. Leadership in the short term would most likely be taken by the commanding officers of local military bases, who would then extend out to bring order to as much territory as possible. From here on out, it would depend a lot on the individual character of those officers, and civilian leadership..

This kind of Happens. (Boise)


Does a military dictatorship get established, indefinite martial law followed by a de-facto "king" of a small kingdom?


This happens.

In any case, I think the books would be made fundamentally better if CUT was replaced by a good, respectable communist faction. Think about it. Blocks of infantry, marching under the hammer and sickle. PPA knights mixing it up with Knights that use only hammers and sickles. All that red.

[Demon 997]

While that does sound really cool, wouldn't you have problems with classism with the knights? Also hammers and sickles sound like poor calvary weapons.

[DomaDoma]

You say that like actual Communists didn't have problems with classism.

[Demon 997]

Thats true, through you'd imagine that someone in the states wouldn't have had much experience with actual communism. They'd probably still be reasonably naive.