[3.5 / PF] Staking vampires

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Driving a wooden stake through the heart of a vampire destroys it instantly, the SRD says - but how does one do that?


In a session of a game I just ran, I ruled that to stake a vampire, you would need to render it immobile, through paralysis, subdual or - crucially - pinning in a grapple.

In a grapple, a vampire can of course turn gaseous. However, if it did not (electing to drain or slam its grappler) and got pinned, is it reasonable to then say that another character can stake the vampire?

Aside from my specific example, are there any other ways to stake a vampire in the RAW?

[FelixG]

to go along with this it should be fun watching someone try to pierce that dr10/silver with a small bit of improvsed wood :smallbiggrin:

[Altair_the_Vexed]

to go along with this it should be fun watching someone try to pierce that dr10/silver with a small bit of improvsed wood :smallbiggrin:
Hm.
By that logic, you plain cannot ever stake a vampire, even assuming they're lying dormant due to extreme damage from the party or paralysis effects of any sort.
If that's right, why mention staking at all?

[Coidzor]

Well, a +1 collision lance on a mounted charge would brute force that DR with (1d6 or 1d8 + 1 + 1.5 strength) * 2 to spare.

[Amiel]

Too balance their array of innate powers, vampires are susceptible to a range of weaknesses. You may need to bring these to bear to have a fighting chance of staking said monster.

Some examples: Weaknesses: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from mirrors or strongly presented holy symbols. These things don't harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against that creature. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action. After 1 round, a vampire can overcome its revulsion of the object and function normally each round it makes a DC 25 Will save.

Wearing strings of garlic or carrying hand mirrors or presently holy symbols with strength and vigour will all hold the vampire at bay.

[Darrin]

Aside from my specific example, are there any other ways to stake a vampire in the RAW?

The rules for slaying a vampire state that bringing the vampire to 0 HP incapacitates it, and then it refers to the fast healing entry, where it says a vampire reduced to 0 HP automatically assumes gaseous form and can't be damaged further. It then retreats to its coffin, becomes solid but is helpless for the next hour. It sounds to me like the only way to can drive a stake into the vampire's heart is following him back to his coffin and staking him within that single "golden hour". Since the vampire is helpless, the DR vs. the stake is largely irrelevent, and the specific rules for staking trump the general rules for DR. It's not exactly a permanent "slaying" until you destroy the body (via sunlight) or the decapitation/holy wafers thing, which doesn't mention whether it destroys the body or not... common folklore typically recommends burning the body and head on separate pyres. That should work for destroying the body without sunlight.

The context is confusing because the paragraph before, it was talking about an obviously not-helpless vampire being destroyed by sunlight. Given the gaseous form thing, it looks like the only way to stake a vampire is when he's helpless and in his coffin. There doesn't appear to be any RAW way to do this during combat with a non-helpless vampire.

Check Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. There may be special rules for staking non-helpless vampires in there. Otherwise, you'll have to come up with some homebrew rules. I'd probably allow a grappled + pinned vampire to be staked by another PC, but he'd have to be quick about it. Pinned = immobile but *not* helpless, maybe require an attack roll and the vampire might get some sort of Ref or Fort save, depending on how badly I want the vampire to stick around as an annoying recurring villain.

There are some alchemical items in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft that can help:

Alchemical Sun Flash (50 GP). Works like alchemist's fire, but has a daylight effect that staggers a vampire for one round, no save.

Alchemical Flare Stake (15 GP). Treated as a dagger for attacking, and once you hit it lodges inside the undead's body and does an additional 1d6 fire damage every round (energy damage, so bypasses DR) until it's removed. Assuming the undead isn't mindless, all stakes can be removed as a standard action, but this prevents the vampire from doing anything else that round such as attacking, gaseous form, etc. Load up a vampire with enough stakes, and you could bring him down to 0 HP, at which point he turns gaseous automatically and retreats to his coffin. It's not clear if the stakes go with him while gaseous... they could be treated as attended items or part of his equipment. Not sure... the specific rules for the stakes may say that the only way to remove them is by physically pulling them out, in which case they turn gaseous with the vampire, but don't do any damage until he gets back to his coffin and assumes physical form... at which point they do damage again, and if its enough to overcome his fast healing, the vampire pretty much burns for the rest of eternity, flipping back and forth from gas to solid until someone comes along and removes the stakes or hammers in the final one through the heart.

[KillianHawkeye]

I suggest looking to some of the older vampire movies (think Bram Stoker's Dracula as opposed to Buffy the Vampire Slayer). Traditionally, one stakes a vampire while they are asleep in their coffins, rather than trying to do it while they are awake and in combat.

[Starbuck_II]

Driving a wooden stake through the heart of a vampire destroys it instantly, the SRD says - but how does one do that?



Actually, it paralyzes it permanently till Stake is removed. This is why it says people cut off the heads so it is dead for good.

[Abies]

to go along with this it should be fun watching someone try to pierce that dr10/silver with a small bit of improvsed wood :smallbiggrin:

Why would you need to overcome the DR? The stake need not deal damage to pierce the heart and immobilize the vamp.

By that logic a non-silvered Vorpal weapon would have no effect either.


By RAW, there's no way to stake a vampire in combat. Staking is reserved for catching the vampire resting or recuperating in thier coffin.

That said, in a campaign I ran where vampires were a primary enemy, I changed the DR to dr10/silver or wood. Any attack with a piercing wooden weapon that had a confirmed critical was considered a "stake" and the vampire dusted. It made vampires a bit more manageable as common enemies.

[Jallorn]

In my experience, you can stake a pinned vampire. Not sure if you can the turn you pin it or not, but still.

[Psyx]

Give a stake (a proper one, of the right wood. Not a spear-shaft or any nonsense) stats of 1d3 damage and a crit chance of 20. Then they player simply has to crit the vampire.

Sure: You can't normally crit undead, but you can't crit them because they have nothing to crit. But in the case of a stake a vampire very specifically DOES have a vulnerable area to crit.

I'd maybe make the player make a heal check (DC10?) to get it int he right place, too. If I was feeling mean.

[Jan Mattys]

Give a stake (a proper one, of the right wood. Not a spear-shaft or any nonsense) stats of 1d3 damage and a crit chance of 20. Then they player simply has to crit the vampire.

Sure: You can't normally crit undead, but you can't crit them because they have nothing to crit. But in the case of a stake a vampire very specifically DOES have a vulnerable area to crit.

I'd maybe make the player make a heal check (DC10?) to get it int he right place, too. If I was feeling mean.

Probably a Knowledge check instead of a heal check, but yeah, I more or less agree with this (s)take on vampires :smallbiggrin:

[Starbuck_II]

Give a stake (a proper one, of the right wood. Not a spear-shaft or any nonsense) stats of 1d3 damage and a crit chance of 20. Then they player simply has to crit the vampire.

Sure: You can't normally crit undead, but you can't crit them because they have nothing to crit. But in the case of a stake a vampire very specifically DOES have a vulnerable area to crit.

I'd maybe make the player make a heal check (DC10?) to get it int he right place, too. If I was feeling mean.

Stakes haven been stated out in Advanced Players Guide: 1d4 damage, x2 Crit (20).

[Psyx]

Probably a Knowledge check instead of a heal check, but yeah, I more or less agree with this (s)take on vampires :smallbiggrin:

Heal check to know where the heart actually is, rather than a knowledge check to know about the weakness is what I meant.

[Le-vante]

In my campaign we managed to stake a vampire in combat just a few sessions ago.

Cutting a longstory short our party was out for revenge against the vamp who killed our previous characters, when we inadvertantly stumbled upon him (or where ambushed by him in other words) he hadn't fed for weeks and had become savage and instinctual. When we awoke to find him trying to bite the wizards jugular out, the meat(s) of the team grappled him and managed to pin him against the floor after which my cleric applied the stake to his chest.

So if your lucky enough to find a vampire who hasn't eaten for a while.. I guess it's posible.