[3.x] Left for Dead

[Saint GoH]

So I've recently been staying up till 5 am playing Left for Dead 2 with some friends of mine, and at the behest of one I have decided to run a Left for Dead campaign.

Most of it I think will be easy enough, I can homebrew most of the Special Infected and make the missions similar in nature to the original though of course converting them to a fantasy/steampunk setting.

The question I pose to you, playground, is what to do about spacing? Typically the horde in LFD2 is a constant nuisance (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/) and I want to recreate that. However my players are smart. They know that other things can't enter their 5-foot square or multiple enemies can't fit in the squares around them, so they will just lock down in every doorway and murder as many thousands of zombies that I throw at them. Even if there was no doorway they could only be attacked by 8 at a time, which doesn't seem to grasp the true nature of Left for Dead in my opinion.

Second question is thus, the Witch (http://left4dead.wikia.com/wiki/The_Witch)and the regular Infected (http://left4dead.wikia.com/wiki/The_Infected). Whaaaaaat do I do with those? Regular MM zombies have this issue where they can only take partial actions, and move FREAKING SLOW. I want scary, fast, regenerating, omg-its-climbing-up-the-wall-kill-it zombies. Any special templates or homebrew suggestions? The Witch I'm at a loss of how to do. Do I crank her hit die so she isn't one-shotted, then give her a death attack or something? She basically needs to incapacitate a PC in one hit, which seems a little difficult IMO.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm basically building this from the ground up:smallbiggrin:

--Saint

[SilverLeaf167]

When I have time, I work on my versions of the Left & Dead zombies, making them different templates. I'll tell you when (if) I'm done.

[Diarmuid]

So you give your zombies improved grapple, make the use bull rushes, make your scenery dynamic so that the zombies come through the wall/floor/cieling/etc rather than come through the door.

There are plenty of ways to get around tactical choke points. Though...it's a perfectly valid tactic and probably one of the only ways to actually deal with a horde...so you dont want to completely invalidate it.

[Saint GoH]

When I have time, I work on my versions of the Left & Dead zombies, making them different templates. I'll tell you when (if) I'm done.

Id appreciate it :smallbiggrin:


So you give your zombies improved grapple, make the use bull rushes, make your scenery dynamic so that the zombies come through the wall/floor/cieling/etc rather than come through the door.

There are plenty of ways to get around tactical choke points. Though...it's a perfectly valid tactic and probably one of the only ways to actually deal with a horde...so you dont want to completely invalidate it.

For sure, I just don't want the campaign to turn into a "stand by the door and wait" type of campaign, where the enemies are too boring. Of course the Special Infected will mix it up a little.

[Necroticplague]

There already is a fast zombie template and some other special zombie template. In order to get something close to the effects your looking for, these are my recommendations:

1. All zombies have the fast zombie template applied to them.
2. Smokers have the chameleon template applied to them.
3. Tanks have the unkillable zombie and tough zombie template applied.
4. Hunters have the hunter zombie template.
5. Boombers have the filth zombie template.
6. Witches have the short tempered flaw.
7. Most zombies have the ravenous template.
8. Spitters have the acidborn template (not sure if it can be applied to zombies.)
9. Mudmen have the lesser phantom template (again, not sure if it can be applied.
10. If you want them to regenerate, give the zombies the evolved template.

[Saint GoH]

There already is a fast zombie template and some other special zombie template. In order to get something close to the effects your looking for, these are my recommendations:

1. All zombies have the fast zombie template applied to them.
2. Smokers have the chameleon template applied to them.
3. Tanks have the unkillable zombie and tough zombie template applied.
4. Hunters have the hunter zombie template.
5. Boombers have the filth zombie template.
6. Witches have the short tempered flaw.
7. Most zombies have the ravenous template.
8. Spitters have the acidborn template (not sure if it can be applied to zombies.)
9. Mudmen have the lesser phantom template (again, not sure if it can be applied.
10. If you want them to regenerate, give the zombies the evolved template.

Good call sir. Very good call. The boomers I will probably homebrew to allow for summoning of the Horde, but the rest is pretty solid.

[Necroticplague]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the feat from the flaw for witches is used to get Tooth and Nail feat, thus giving them claws.

[Hanuman]

There already is a fast zombie template and some other special zombie template. In order to get something close to the effects your looking for, these are my recommendations:

1. All zombies have the fast zombie template applied to them.
2. Smokers have the chameleon template applied to them.
3. Tanks have the unkillable zombie and tough zombie template applied.
4. Hunters have the hunter zombie template.
5. Boombers have the filth zombie template.
6. Witches have the short tempered flaw.
7. Most zombies have the ravenous template.
8. Spitters have the acidborn template (not sure if it can be applied to zombies.)
9. Mudmen have the lesser phantom template (again, not sure if it can be applied.
10. If you want them to regenerate, give the zombies the evolved template.
11. Give all zombies a climb speed.
12. For random elite zombies use the Evolved template.
13. Optionally, witches could be zombified hags.
14. You probably want to give hunters a crawl speed (movement while prone), kip up, always jump as if they took a running start, a fat jump and hide bonus and most importantly Pounce.

[pffh]

I'd also give hunters two claw attacks and improved grab.

[Toliudar]

Alternately create a "swarm of zombies" creature that responds badly to attacks on individual members, but can get mown down with area attacks. Swarms can share squares with other creatures, and it might give the "overwhelmed" quality that you're looking for.

[Saint GoH]

Alternately create a "swarm of zombies" creature that responds badly to attacks on individual members, but can get mown down with area attacks. Swarms can share squares with other creatures, and it might give the "overwhelmed" quality that you're looking for.

I was just considering that, though I was under the impression swarms had to be diminutive or tiny... does it matter?

*Sudden image of 6 inch zombies swarming someone... Bollywood horror movie at its finest*

Btw, its coming along great, figured the charger and common infected out, working on the hunter and the smoker. Muahahahaha

[The Dark Fiddler]

Idea: make them aberrations instead of undead?

Just a random thought, they seem to fit better that way to me, personally.

[pffh]

Idea: make them aberrations instead of undead?

Just a random thought, they seem to fit better that way to me, personally.

Yeah or monstrous humanoid seeing how they are still living breathing people, just infected.

[Saint GoH]

True Statement. Dear god this will throw their perceptions off... but then I can't apply all my goody fast/ravenous/evolved/bloodthirsty zombie templates :smallannoyed:

[pffh]

But now they aren't restricted to partial actions and you can still apply what ever templates you want you are the dm.

[Bayar]

I was just considering that, though I was under the impression swarms had to be diminutive or tiny... does it matter?

*Sudden image of 6 inch zombies swarming someone... Bollywood horror movie at its finest*

Btw, its coming along great, figured the charger and common infected out, working on the hunter and the smoker. Muahahahaha

There's a horde template in The World's Largest Dungeon. It's third party, but that shouldn't be an issue (actually finding the book will though).

Basically, it's like a swarm template. The horde get's one attack roll (BAB being the creature's HD multiplied by the number of creatures), and you multiply the damage based on the number of creatures in the horde (for example, 7 creatures in a horde would be normal damage, 27 would be triple damage...).

[Hanuman]

Alternately create a "swarm of zombies" creature that responds badly to attacks on individual members, but can get mown down with area attacks. Swarms can share squares with other creatures, and it might give the "overwhelmed" quality that you're looking for.
How many AoO's do you get vs. a swarm? Would it nerf combat reflexes?

[olentu]

There's a horde template in The World's Largest Dungeon. It's third party, but that shouldn't be an issue (actually finding the book will though).

Basically, it's like a swarm template. The horde get's one attack roll (BAB being the creature's HD multiplied by the number of creatures), and you multiply the damage based on the number of creatures in the horde (for example, 7 creatures in a horde would be normal damage, 27 would be triple damage...).

I recall there being a mob template somewhere. Perhaps the DMG 2 or something like that.

[pffh]

I recall there being a mob template somewhere. Perhaps the DMG 2 or something like that.

Someone also homebrewed a better mob template on these forums. I have it bookmarked on my other computer and will edit in a link tomorrow.

EDIT: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129179