Xykon vs Richard

[faustin]

I am beginning to read the "Looking for Group" Canadian strips ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_for_Group if you are interested ) and it´s impossible for me not to find similarities between Richard and Xykon: undead sorcerer, Chaotic Evil, charismatic, hilarious, affable and terrific at the same time. The point is, is any possible relation/feedback between the two characters?

[Dr.Epic]

undead sorcerer

Richard's a warlock, and yes, the similarities have been noticed many times before.

[Leecros]

it´s impossible for me not to find similarities between Richard and Xykon: undead sorcerer, Chaotic Evil, charismatic, hilarious, affable and terrific at the same time.

There is one big difference....Richard is a Chaotic Evil warlock fighting on the side of good and because of this he essentially has a free pass to do whatever evil thing he can come up with.


Xykon is a Chaotic Evil Sorcerer Lich fighting on the side of evil, but where there are consequences he just kills the people trying to call him out on it.


In terms of who would win? Xykon hands down. He's a Lich, and while Richard definitely does some badass stuff i don't think he's as powerful as Xykon.

[Kareasint]

Richard has more style and a pet bunny.


In terms of who would win? Xykon hands down. He's a Lich, and while Richard definitely does some badass stuff i don't think he's as powerful as Xykon.

Richard also would be considered a lich but it is difficult to translate how a WoW character would work in D&D. It could end up giving Richard more tools for mayhem.

[faustin]

Richard's a warlock

I used "sorcerer" meaning spellcaster because Richard, although his WoW warlock-like dressing, can use elemental spells of fire and ice. Anyway, Richard win over Xykon because he has a archmage-bunny and his own theme "Slaughter your World" :smallbiggrin:.
And sorry, i didn´t know this thread was posted before.

[Morty]

The main difference between Xykon and Richard is that Xykon is a well-written charater whereas Richard very much isn't.

[Anteros]

Richard is closer to a black mage rip-off than a Xykon one anyway.

[Reverent-One]

It's hard to say, Richard's full abilities have not been revealed. He has the potential to be more powerful than Xykon. However, he has lost nearly all conflicts against other spellcasters (granted, they have also outnumbered him each of those times, whatever that may count for), though it's hard to say if he threw some of those fights or not.


The main difference between Xykon and Richard is that Xykon is a well-written charater whereas Richard very much isn't.

That's giving him a bit too little credit I think.

[Dr.Epic]

Anyway, Richard win over Xykon because he has a archmage-bunny and his own theme "Slaughter your World" :smallbiggrin:.
And sorry, i didn´t know this thread was posted before.

While I love Slaughter Your World, no. Richard is not better than Xykon. Xykon has goals and style. Richard is just a one dimensional "I kill things with dark magic" joke. Yeah, Xykon does this, but we do see some depth and interesting moments with him. Not to mention, LFG has no story. Seriously, what are the characters doing? What is their goal other than to find the "not-stolen-from-another-story" Sword of Truth? Not to mention, what's the deal with the movie? Years ago I remember hearing they were making a LFG movie, and nothing's happened.

[Reverent-One]

Richard is just a one dimensional "I kill things with dark magic" joke.

Richard's outward appearence is just a one dimensional "I kill things with dark magic" joke, though from times when we see him by himself, it's indicated there's a more there, he's just hiding it behind the act.


Not to mention, LFG has no story. Seriously, what are the characters doing?

Trying to not get wiped out by Legara by gaining control the Sand dragons?


What is their goal other than to find the "not-stolen-from-another-story" Sword of Truth?

Unite the various peoples of the world, rebuild Kethenecia, and defeat the evil empire.

[Kish]

Well, Xykon is a character from a webcomic. Richard is a character from a particularly bad Author Tract that might be possible to mistake for a webcomic.

...What was the question again?

[Reverent-One]

Well, Xykon is a character from a webcomic. Richard is a character from a particularly bad Author Tract that might be possible to mistake for a webcomic.


Hmm, that's new. What is it you think LFG is an Author Tract for?

[The Glyphstone]

I've heard it claimed that Richard is the author's Gary Stu insert as well, so the only conclusion I can work out is that LFG is an Author Tract for the joys of sociopathic mass murder.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Well, Richard Burlew is Xykon's author so...

wait, what was this thread about?

[Kish]

Well, Richard Burlew is Xykon's author so...
...so Xykon would defeat him as surely as Frankenstein's monster was stronger than him rather than the other way around?

[Kurald Galain]

I am beginning to read the "Looking for Group" Canadian strips ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_for_Group if you are interested ) and it´s impossible for me not to find similarities between Richard and Xykon

Richard is more accurately compared to (and sometimes called a ripoff of) Black Mage from 8-bit theatre. Both have a role that is essentially slapstick and evil "for the lulz". Xykon has actual plans and an actual role in the plot other than being funny.

(edit) also, as pointed out above, Richard is an obvious Gary Stu, and Xykon clearly isn't.

[Trazoi]

Richard is more accurately compared to (and sometimes called a ripoff of) Black Mage from 8-bit theatre. Both have a role that is essentially slapstick and evil "for the lulz". Xykon has actual plans and an actual role in the plot other than being funny.
I've only read the first few dozen pages of LFG and that's the comparison I usually made. The big difference being that 8-bit's universe hates Black Mage and dishes back the hurt more often than not. Whereas for Richard his universe loves him and is his own personal playground.

[yldenfrei]

Agree on the Richard = Gary Stu observations stated above. It may also be mentioned that Richard operates more or less like a fantasy counterpart to Rayne Summers (Least I Could Do, same creators of LFG), who gets a free pass for many morally questionable things for the lulz. The idea of giving free reign to a morally ambiguous person was the (initial) premise of the two Blind Ferret strips, something that LICD embraces wholeheartedly, while LFG watered down the moment that blond elf what's-his-name took the limelight (hence, my not reading it anymore).

Whereas Xyxon is not the Giant's Gary Stu. D&D rules apply appropriately. Simple as that.

So Burlew's Xykon VS Sohmmer's Richard? Richard, hands down. But the win will be a Tuesday Night Special which everyone will forget by the end of the week.

And Xykon? It will be the most glorious loss in the history of all losses. Or maybe he'll let Richard win by default with a mere "Meh, not entertaining enough."

[Morquard]

Well the "free pass for the lulz" we sort of have here with Belkar. Sure, he's no epic level lich, so he obviously is limited in the mayham he can cause, but has there ever been serious consequences for his evils? Sure there was the MoJ for a time, but that got taken care of.
He killed a harmles gnome "for the lulz" (ok for a chocolate bar...) and what did happen? Haley took the chocolate bar away.

Who would win? No clue. I stopped reading LFG years ago, I think that was about the time when Richard went back to his village full of zombies or something. Only dimly remember it. But yeah, there never was a real story to the strip that I could see then, and that's why I left. And it wasn't really funny either.

[slayerx]

Well the "free pass for the lulz" we sort of have here with Belkar. Sure, he's no epic level lich, so he obviously is limited in the mayham he can cause, but has there ever been serious consequences for his evils? Sure there was the MoJ for a time, but that got taken care of.
He killed a harmles gnome "for the lulz" (ok for a chocolate bar...) and what did happen? Haley took the chocolate bar away.
Oh I disagree, the MoJ was no small thing... that ended up influencing him and punishing him for a VERY long time. And it was such a punishment that it convinced Belkar to pretend to change his ways so that he keeps his evil much more below the radar; sure he got rid of it but only AFTER he managed some form of change... if he's not punished now its mostly because he manages to be less obviously evil about it. Hell nowadays he hasn't killed anyone innocent like he would have in the past. Furthermore, the evil he does get away with often comes with a reason lately. Like when he killed the gnome, Haley was not in anykind of position to actually use any authority over him. She would have liked to have done something but she couldn't really... Another reason being that Roy and the others sometimes don't realize the stuff he does like getting all buddy buddy with the slavers

in contrast Richard gets away with EVERYTHING. The self proclaimed good guys give him a free pass over everything he does no matter how many innocents he kills. Honestly richard kills innocents on a regular basis for no reason and yet Cale has the gall to get mad at someone else killing a few innocents for the first time, who too no pride/joy in what she did and actually had reasons for why she did it; which still makes it evil but minor compared to Richard's acts...

[Ted The Bug]

Not to mention, LFG has no story. Seriously, what are the characters doing?

Thisx10. I read Sohmer's other webcomic (LICD), and love it for its one-off gags. But LFG's story...just...no.

[TheBST]

Now the 8 Bit Theatre Light Warriors vs Team Evil: there's an interesting/hilarious fight.

[NegativeFifteen]

Richard is more accurately compared to (and sometimes called a ripoff of) Black Mage from 8-bit theatre. Both have a role that is essentially slapstick and evil "for the lulz". Xykon has actual plans and an actual role in the plot other than being funny.

(edit) also, as pointed out above, Richard is an obvious Gary Stu, and Xykon clearly isn't.

Weird. I always compared BM to Belkar. Go figure, I guess.

[Chaos rising]

I think that richard is what would happen if Xykon had never met redcloak (and therefore never got started on his control the gate plan) and was then put in the same position Belkar is.

[Welknair]

I agree that Xykon has a deal more story than Richard (Not saying that Richard doesn't have an underlying personality, but we don't see much of it)

As far as power goes... Xykon is on his quest because he wants more power. Richard is on his because he's as strong as he'll get and bored with his power.

Not enough v So much I'm bored

Richard.

[Kurald Galain]

Not enough v So much I'm bored

In other words, willing to do whatever it takes to obtain more power, vs lazy and unwilling to improve himself.

Advantage: Xykon.

[HandofShadows]

Richard's outward appearence is just a one dimensional "I kill things with dark magic" joke, though from times when we see him by himself, it's indicated there's a more there, he's just hiding it behind the act.

And we have a winner! We see some of the real Richard at his trial (and how powerful he is when wipes out the demon court). There is much to him than meets the eye.

Start of the trial http://lfgcomic.com/page/151
End http://lfgcomic.com/page/158

[The Pilgrim]

Main differences between Xykon and Richard:

- Xykon works with evil guys. Richard works for the good guys

- Xykon is the boss of his team and tolerates no other position than the dominant one. While Richard submits to a boss, Cale (or whoever bound him to work for Cale, for instance)

- Xykon would never do even the smallest sacrifice for anyone. Richard endures sacrifices for (at least) Cale

- Xykon is the main villain. Richard is a comic relief

- Xykon lacks organizative skills (needs Redcloack for that). Richard is the mayor of a seaside village

- Xykon has no respect towards his minions and has no conpunction in pointless sacrificing them. Richard, through brutalizes his people, has taken responsibility for the defense of the inhabitants of his undead village

- Xykon's in-comic development has been from man (SOD) to undead. From a brat to a complete monster. Richard, on the other hand, seems to be going the opposite way, from undead and complete monster, back to human capable of experiencing emotions (http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/158)

- Xykon pursues his selfish desires, and requires no higher purpose or motivation. While Richard follows Cale because that gives him a sense of purpose, and makes him feel being following a higher Path (see above link).

- Xykon is uncapable of loving. Richard loves Bunny

- Xykon does not bear any humilliation. Richard tolerates some abuse from Cale and the others

- Much of Xykon's character developement can be tracked back to willing to take back at wizards because they humilliated him for being a sorcerer, and loses no chance to do so (Eugene's Master, Dorukan, Darth V...) while Richard is at terms with what he is and feels no need to prove anything to anybody.

- Xykon is inspired in D&D. Richard in WoW.

- Xykon lives under a Black and White morality system (even through Rich Burlew plays with the Alignment System, deconstructs it, challenges common misconceptions and gives it more depth... ultimatelly Good is still Good and Evil is still Evil). Richard lives in a Grey morality world.

- Xykon is a stick figure. Richard is drawn. (This doesn't means I don't acknowelde stick art as a proper art form, through. I like Rich Burlew's chosen art style for his webcomic and I value it's merits)

Overall, however, I like OOTS more than LFG or any other webcomic. Wich doesn't stops me from enjoing other webcomics.

EDIT: I dunno Richard is a Gary Stu, Ryan Sohmer already satisfies his ego with Rayne from Least I Could Do.

[Dr.Epic]

Richard's outward appearence is just a one dimensional "I kill things with dark magic" joke, though from times when we see him by himself, it's indicated there's a more there, he's just hiding it behind the act.

In the most recent comics, Cale lost a leg and was going to be eaten. What does Richard do when he sees a party member in life threatening danger? Make jokes of course. Saying Richard has depth is like saying Belkar has depth, or a line has depth.


Trying to not get wiped out by Legara by gaining control the Sand dragons?

Unite the various peoples of the world, rebuild Kethenecia, and defeat the evil empire.

Between all the filler and subplots it's hard to keep track.

[The Pilgrim]

In the most recent comics, Cale lost a leg and was going to be eaten. What does Richard do when he sees a party member in life threatening danger? Make jokes of course.

And then wins back his leg, and in the following fight serves as mount and "human" shield for said leg-less party member, in order to help him get his missed limb re-attached.

[Dr.Epic]

And then wins back his leg, and in the following fight serves as mount and "human" shield for said leg-less party member, in order to help him get his missed limb re-attached.

So? Is that supposed to make up for the fact a few minutes ago he was completely fine with Cale being eaten alive? Not to mention you comment is just more proof Richard is just a homicidal, over the top, joke of dark comedy.

[Gettles]

So? Is that supposed to make up for the fact a few minutes ago he was completely fine with Cale being eaten alive? Not to mention you comment is just more proof Richard is just a homicidal, over the top, joke of dark comedy.

How about we all just come to an agreement. The biggest difference between Richard, Xykon, and Black Mage are that Xykon and BM were created by much better writers.

[The Pilgrim]

Now the 8 Bit Theatre Light Warriors vs Team Evil: there's an interesting/hilarious fight.

Since a webcomic is a place with two dimensions and the Light Warriors had only one, Team Evil would win without much of a sweat.

[mr man]

This (http://lfgcomic.com/page/158) is why Richard helps cale

[Lord Raziere]

Everyone, this is not webcomics and authors, this is about peoples capabilities in a fight. any character in DBZ could probably slaughter anyone in OOTS, even though OOTS is better written.

well lets takes a look at their magical abilities:

Xykon has proven to be an epic-level sorcerer in DnD terms.

Richard has also done great things with his magic and doesn't seem limited to spell slots.

both seem to be able to survive a lot of punishment since both are basically liches, the difference being we don't know whether Richard is bound by a phylactery like Xykon is, so Richard might have the advantage in purely not being able to die.

counting allies: Xykon has MITD, RC, Tsukiko and 10,000-something hobgoblins

Richard has Kale, the rest of Kales group, and the whole Kethenecia alliance thing, plus the undead village.

so actually they are pretty equal, depending on how powerful you interpret Richard to be since we have no way to tell while Xykon is rooted in DnD rules.

though RC and MITD might arbitrarily tilt things in Xykon's favor since it doesn't seem that Kale has face anything like them.....unless you count the giant.

so......

without allies: depends on how powerful you think Richard is, and if you think he can actually die.

with allies: probably Xykon, though Richard could probably put up a good fight.

[Trazoi]

Everyone, this is not webcomics and authors, this is about peoples capabilities in a fight.
Actually according to the OP it's a comparison of the two characters' personalities and debating the common themes between the two. Hence the discussion of webcomics and authors. :smallbiggrin:

Besides, if there's no outline of the rules of the contest who says it has to be a fight? If the question is just "Xykon vs. Richard: who would win?" then it could be a chess tournament or a bake-off for all we know. Although with these two it probably would degenerate into a fight regardless.


Now the 8 Bit Theatre Light Warriors vs Team Evil: there's an interesting/hilarious fight.
Red Mage would be in his element given everyone on Team Evil operates on D&D rules. However Black Mage would instantly defect to Team Evil so they would probably get the upper hand.

[Kurald Galain]

Richard has also done great things with his magic and doesn't seem limited to spell slots.
"has also done great things" is extremely vague. There's nothing about his abilities that suggests he can match D&D Epic Spellcasting.

You can attempt to make a reliable comparison between Gandalf, Milamber, Dworkin, and Vanyel. However, to do so you need better arguments than that they have all "also done great things".

[Mikeavelli]

I think a more interesting fight would be Belkar and Richard competing to see who can be the most blatantly evil before their respective groups kick them out....

[The Pilgrim]

So? Is that supposed to make up for the fact a few minutes ago he was completely fine with Cale being eaten alive? Not to mention you comment is just more proof Richard is just a homicidal, over the top, joke of dark comedy.

Richard is bound to protect Cale, both by some sort of deal with some higher power, and because he likes to do it. So, no, the fact that he finds the situation funny and mades some puns doesn't means he was fine with leaving him to be eaten.

On the other hand, all the predicament by which Cale loses the leg is supposed to be funny, for starters; being eaten by a gigant worm without noticing it... captured by natives and realizing that despite they regard him as a God, they aren't gonna bow to him but rather eat him to get closer to God... waking up to discover the "natives" are marinating his limb, etc...

If you don't find it funny, that's fine. Everyone does not have the same tastes at humor. But that doesn't means it's a bad webcomic.

[squidbreath]

I think a more interesting fight would be Belkar and Richard competing to see who can be the most blatantly evil before their respective groups kick them out....

Richard wins then. Belkar only has to kill 1 oracle.

[Lynn]

Richard wins thanks to the power of THE FORK OF TRUTH

I think both uses all of their most destructive spells until there is only Xykon's phylactery and a pile of dust that used to be Rachard's body left (or his own phylactery or whatever remains that is enough for him to come back). Then Cale destroys the Xykon's phylactery with the Sword of Truth.


To me Richard have one avantage over Xykon:he has got an actual friend

[martianmister]

Only real similarity between them is their both being magic-users...

Otherwise, he is a parody of Belkar-Black Mage-Richard type players.

[Zeb The Troll]

There's a history that he'd rather not remember (http://lfgcomic.com/page/356).

There's also the story arc about Cale's back story, ending here (http://lfgcomic.com/page/356), that strongly suggests Richard had a rather important role in making Cale who he is today.

I disagree that Richard is a one dimensional one-off joke machine. The entire strip is intended to be comedic.

Of course, I love LFG and I think it has a deep and engaging story to this point, so your mileage may vary.

[slayerx]

Of course, I love LFG and I think it has a deep and engaging story to this point, so your mileage may vary.

Frankly i think one of the big problems with the comic is that the writer seems to forget that...
Honestly, at this point the comic has been spending like what 2-3 months on an utterly pointless worm monster detour. It makes it quite irritating when you KNOW there are much more interesting things we could be focusing on. It can be easy to forget the good parts of the comic when you have crap inbetween. Not to mention we get stupid reasons to extend these encounters
"Help us and we'll re-attach your leg"
"Ok fine, even though i'm traveling with someone who can do that also..."

Really, i often find that Richard becomes more of distraction... anytime you want the story to take a step forward we spend the page on another richard joke that is barely funny.

And to try and bring this more back on topic. Another thing Richard and Xykon are different is that Xykon makes the most out of every comic appearance. He either moves the story forward, shows us how deliciously evil he is, oh give us a good honest laugh... In short, just about every comic he appears is just shows us what a brilliant character he is, while Richard is a constant hit or miss at best

[boj0]

My biggest gripe with LFG is that it doesn't know where it's going; OOTS takes detours and side-plots, but they culminate beautifully; while you can't tell in LFG if a one panel joke is actually a really important plot line (are they actually looking for Pokemon in the desert), or just a joke. I read LFG because I sense great potential in it, hoping that the random plot points come together to makes sense in the end. I'm still waiting...still hoping :smallsigh:

As for Xykon vs. Richard, we need a better way to gauge Richard's power; he slaughters a courtroom of demons and one-shots a dragon, but then he barley scratches a giant :smallconfused:
Richard runs on Rule of Funny; while Xykon runs on 3.5
So if it would be ridiculously hilarious for Richard to win, then he might. But if we're taking off the kid gloves, I give it to Xykon.

[Reverent-One]

My biggest gripe with LFG is that it doesn't know where it's going; OOTS takes detours and side-plots, but they culminate beautifully; while you can't tell in LFG if a one panel joke is actually a really important plot line (are they actually looking for Pokemon in the desert), or just a joke. I read LFG because I sense great potential in it, hoping that the random plot points come together to makes sense in the end. I'm still waiting...still hoping :smallsigh:

This is my biggest issue with LFG at the moment. It used to keep things moving well, but of late the pacing has not been what it used to be. I'd guess the fact that Sohmer is now doing one daily comic (LiCD), one twice a week comic (LFG), and one three times weekly comic (The Gutters), as well as running a comic book shop has something to do that, and that funny comics are faster to write than plot heavy ones.

[Flame Gryphon]

(are they actually looking for Pokemon in the desert), or just a joke. I read LFG because I sense great potential in it, hoping that the random plot points come together to makes sense in the end. I'm still waiting...still hoping :smallsigh:

Both. It was a joke because the object they are looking for looks like a 'mass-produced toy' when it is actually an object of great power. Plus it was a pokeball that controls mythical creatures, so...basically just a pokeball.

Honestly, I find it advances the plot perfectly, just as well if not better than OotS, certainly better than Darths and Droids and 8-Bit Theatre. The only reason I'm not sure if LfG is in fact better at advancing the story is how far ahead the maker of OotS thinks.