Multi-class spellcasting PrC

[Half-orc Bard]

How good are the mystic thurge ceribramancer and ultimate magus and the like. At first they seemed great but now the low spell lvl sucks

[Defiant]

How good are the mystic thurge ceribramancer and ultimate magus and the like.

This is how good they are:


At first they seemed great but now the low spell lvl sucks

[WarrenZig]

Well, the ultimate magus could actually be about average in strength but multi caster prcs really take a hit from their low spell levels for their char level.

They seem good because they have double caster progression....but then you realize it doesn't matter when all you have are 2 lists of 6 level spells, and you are limited in the amount of actions you can take per turn, which is the same as the wizard with level 9 spells.

[Godskook]

Mystic Theurge: Bad. The class gives no class features, and offers no method of gaining double 9ths on many reasonable entries.

Arcane Heirophant: Great. The class has several class features of its own, the most impressive of which is down-right exploitable(super-mount builds). Even for non-exploiting purposes, there's several good builds associated with it, and double 9ths are an easy to acquire option(Mystic Theurge).

Ultimate Magus: Good+. The RAI on the class is great, and only costs 1 level of multiclassing to get in, and it only takes 1 feat to ensure 9ths on your wizard side. The lost spell levels hurt a little, but are made up for by the fact that you're getting a *LOT* out of the class, including free metamagic 8 times per day by the end of the class.

Psionic Theurges: Good. Psionics are hurt a lot less by multiclassing than Vancian casters are, and generally, are perfectly functional losing 3 ML, due to Practiced Manifester. Ardents can survive a loss of up to 7 ML and still get 9th level powers, but they're the extreme example. Regardless, psionic theurges are infinitely better than Vancian ones.

[WarrenZig]

here's one!
True Necromancer: Very Bad: All but one class ability is a once per day cast of a spell they would have normally as a 20th level wiz/cleric and that ability is a permanent desecration that follows the TN. There is also the topic of whether or not the wizard and cleric levels share the same undead pool.

A vanilla 20 level wizard or cleric would be miles better than this at necromancy.

[FMArthur]

The Geomancer from Complete Divine advances either an arcane or a divine class at each level (your choice, each time) and requires both to enter. It's terrible at being a Theurge, but the class features it grants really benefit arcane spellcasters. I suppose Duskblade or something could really benefit Divine casters as well. In practical usage I treat it as just being an 11-level Wizard PrC where you lose casting progression the first level (Cleric dip) in exchange for casting all your arcane spells the same way a Cleric would if it's advantageous. Lots of minor bonuses, better BAB and hit dice all combine to be an actually decent trade.

Anyway, that's probably not especially relevant to what you want OP and I mention it mostly for completeness. IMO, dual-progression is a bit powerful for 1-level dip entry, but also quite weak for 3-level split entry. My last DM houseruled that their requirements all change to need 2 levels in each side, and it worked out well enough that I've kept it after taking the helm. Maybe that's what's needed in your game.

[Psyren]

How good are the mystic thurge ceribramancer and ultimate magus and the like. At first they seemed great but now the low spell lvl sucks

I'm with Defiant, you basically answered your own question.

With accelecasters (e.g. Ur-Priest) though, they can get pretty good.



Psionic Theurges: Good. Psionics are hurt a lot less by multiclassing than Vancian casters are, and generally, are perfectly functional losing 3 ML, due to Practiced Manifester. Ardents can survive a loss of up to 7 ML and still get 9th level powers, but they're the extreme example. Regardless, psionic theurges are infinitely better than Vancian ones.

The other advantage of psionic theurges - high-level psionic powers aren't as "must-have" as their magical equivalents. For example, the best psionic summon (astral construct) is 1st-level, and augmentation allows you to push it to late-game relevance; for a magical summoner however, missing SM7-9 and GPB are crippling.

[Escheton]

They are great in multicaster gestaltbuilds to fill in the gaps on less then full spellcastingprestiges on the other side.