Build advice for a Psion Shaper

[JKTrickster]

Hi there! Currently I'm trying to build a Psion Shaper for a campaign that I'm applying for. He will created at ECL level 5. I was thinking a Human Shaper 5 for now.

However I've never made a Psion before and I really need help. The Astral Construct power looks really interesting and I want to see the different ways to capitalize on it. I've managed to look up two PrCs: the online Constructor PrC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) from The Mind's Eye and the Ectopic Adept from Complete Psionic. Which one is better? Or should I take both for the next 15 levels?

Also is it worth it to take Practiced Manifester since both PrCs don't advance 5/5 or 10/10 manifesting? Or is a 1-3 level loss acceptable?

Also what Ectopic Form feats are especially useful? Are any of them outright traps?

And the concept of my character is pretty malleable since he is still in the drawing phase. Feel free to suggest other races/PrCs/etc as you want. Just for now I have him drafted up as a Human Shaper that developed his powers by himself, sort of a natural gifted ability in shaping ectoplasm to form new objects.

Thanks for any advice!

[Escheton]

The forms are quite handy if focused on summoning.
You can only shape 1 form at a time, and not 1d3 or 1d4+1 smaller kinds like summon spells. So adding some utility on them helps.

[Gnorman]

ALL of the Ectopic Forms are traps. Don't take any of them. Convince your DM that Complete Psionic never happened.

Take the Constructor all the way, as it is a fantastic prestige class for those focused on astral constructs.

[Endarire]

This should do (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9283.20).

Get 2 power stones of psychic reformation by Psion5. Right before you level to 6, PsyRef in two feats from Cityscape which increase your max skill ranks in one skill by 1, qualifying you for Constructor.

When you're a Constructor, PsyRef the feats out and proceed as desired.

I advise getting level 9 powers before taking Constructor10. That helps.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Take the Personal Construct (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ACF at Psion 5, so your Astral Construct only takes a swift action to cast. It always has to be the same level with the same abilities, but you get to reassign what it has every time you gain a level. That way you won't have to lose a level of manifesting for that 10th Constructor level.

Ectopic Form isn't entirely bad in the early levels. An Emerald Gyre has Improved Grab, a Menu B ability, and if you have Boost Construct then a 1st level Emerald Gyre can have a second Menu B ability, or two extra Menu A abilities. Later on you can use Psychic Reformation to replace your Ectopic Form feat(s), and having Psychic Reformation means you're never stuck with it as a power known. You hit level 7, pick Psychic Reformation, manifest Psychic Reformation, repick whatever feats/powers/skills you need to, and pick a different 4th level power instead of Psychic Reformation!

[JKTrickster]

So my build should be Shaper 6 / Constructor 10 / Shaper 4+? If so, how do I pick up Psychic Reformation then?

Also I don't understand how Personal Construct alleviates losing another manifester level at the 10th Constructor level. Can you explain a little more?

[Psyren]

So my build should be Shaper 6 / Constructor 10 / Shaper 4+? If so, how do I pick up Psychic Reformation then?

What do you mean, how? It's a general power, just learn it.


Also I don't understand how Personal Construct alleviates losing another manifester level at the 10th Constructor level. Can you explain a little more?

Personal Construct makes Astral Construct a swift action, just like the Constructor capstone. If there's a specific construct you always summon first, you no longer need the Constructor capstone to summon it quickly - which means you don't have to take Constructor 10, which means you keep that manifester level you would have otherwise lost.

So your build would actually be - Shaper 6/Constructor 9/Shaper +5.

[JKTrickster]

But the Constructor PrC's first level has another manifester level loss...which means I have to grab it at level 8 right? Guess I'm fine with that.

If I'm using Personal Construct, what abilities do you recommend as being particularly useful? I think flying would definitely be one of them, but can't think of any others. And does Boost Construct still apply to the Personal Construct?

[Draz74]

Don't worry about Psychic Reformation. Endaire was suggesting getting it on a Power Stone as part of a cheesy combo to enter Constructor one level earlier than you're supposed to get into it. Don't bother ... it's a small benefit for the cost of making most normal DMs angry at you. :smallyuk:

Mind you, you should still consider learning Psychic Reformation the normal way once you get to a high enough level. It's a good power.

I'd personally skip the Personal Construct ACF. I'd rather have another Feat, and possibly pick up the swift action thing anyway at Constructor 10. You can use that bonus Feat, for example, to pick up Linked Power (CPsi, everyone's favorite metapsionic feat), which, among other things, will let you manifest Astral Construct as a swift action anyway (with a 1-round delay and your psionic focus), if needed.

[erikun]

Ectopic Adept from Complete Psionic is pretty bad. Its capstone is to allow you to have two Astral Constructs active at a time once per day - which seems pretty silly, given that you can have as many active as you'd like at any time. The only reason it is of any use is if your DM is using the change to the Astral Construct power in the Complete Psionic, which only allows you one Construct active at a time. You're better off just asking your DM to ignore the change, or better yet, pretending you never noticed it to begin with.

I thing the Ectopic Form feats are kind of fun, assuming you get the special abilities of the form and can choose abilities based on the PP you spend for the Construct. If not, you're spending a feat for something much weaker than the basic Construct created by the power. Even then, Ectopic Form isn't one of your most powerful feat choices. It's just something fun to play with.

[JKTrickster]

Is it too OP to allow an unchecked amount of Astral Constructs? Has anyone actually recommended some kind of limit? E.g. By Manifester Level, HD, ECL, etc. Or is allowing as many as the Shaper can cast completely fine?

I'll keep that in mind! Maybe I can take a couple of Ectopic Form feats, try them out, and then just use Psychic Reformation to phase the rest of them out.

I'm assuming that Practiced Manifester is a good deal in order to have a full Manifester level, right?

EDIT: If I'm going to use Linked Power or other metapsionic feats, is Psionic Meditation worth it?

[Kantolin]

Is it too OP to allow an unchecked amount of Astral Constructs? Has anyone actually recommended some kind of limit? E.g. By Manifester Level, HD, ECL, etc. Or is allowing as many as the Shaper can cast completely fine?

Speaking from the perspective of a fairly low-optimization game, I can't imagine unchecked astral constructs being overpowered. A wizard/cleric/druid summoner can have an unchecked amount of summons on the field, can get more of them out at once, and they can do neat cool things as well as just be bruisers. :P

[Trekkin]

In my experience, by the time you can summon a worrying amount of astral constructs, fights are over too quickly for your army of ectoplasm people to be truly worrying. Besides, it's usually better to make fewer, more powerful constructs than to make little ones ad infinitum.

Practiced Manifester is a very good thing, as manifester levels are even more important than caster levels. So is Psionic Meditation if you intend to rapidly use metapsionics; it's almost a requirement in my psionic builds.

Ectopic Forms fairly explicitly require you to use the construct as written, which is considerably weaker than a level-equivalent astral construct. They are less attractive than the amount of attention paid them would indicate.

Also, Shapers are one of those classes that benefits a LOT from player creativity. The Creation powers are incredibly versatile, although I always got more mileage out of Minor than Major. Make shields, make decoys, (I'd say make poison, but that can quickly lead to horrible things), make ladders, make rope, make arrows, make kindling (sawdust is wood in nearly explosively flammable form), make caltrops, and so on. Don't forget you can sculpt astral constructs with a Sculpting check to change their form and do some similar things, including put on a fascinating puppet show (which can be used to communicate with those with whom you do not share a language, or as a dynamic visual aid to tactical planning, both of which have gotten me circumstance bonuses from DMs past).

So in build terms, include the creation powers.

[Psyren]

Is it too OP to allow an unchecked amount of Astral Constructs? Has anyone actually recommended some kind of limit? E.g. By Manifester Level, HD, ECL, etc. Or is allowing as many as the Shaper can cast completely fine?

No, it's not, and I can't imagine why WotC thought it would be. :smallannoyed:

They didn't try to stealth-nerf their precious wizards and druids, they shouldn't do it to us.

[JKTrickster]

Just wondering; on the Personal Construct ACF is says that summoning the construct only requires expending your psionic focus. Wait, there's still an PP cost right? And when I choose its abilities, Boost Construct, et al. still apply right?

[Psyren]

Just wondering; on the Personal Construct ACF is says that summoning the construct only requires expending your psionic focus. Wait, there's still an PP cost right? And when I choose its abilities, Boost Construct, et al. still apply right?

Yes, there is still a PP cost for the construct itself. What you are no longer paying for is Quicken Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#quickenPower), which increases the PP cost by 6. (This is a Very Good Thing.)

The Constructor Capstone has the same clause - the only difference being you can use this on any astral construct, not just your personal, pre-designed one. But Personal Construct comes online MUCH earlier in the game.

[Lateral]

Just wondering; on the Personal Construct ACF is says that summoning the construct only requires expending your psionic focus. Wait, there's still an PP cost right? And when I choose its abilities, Boost Construct, et al. still apply right?

Yeah. It's just like Quicken Power, but you don't need the feat.

[Endarire]

I interpreted the Personal Construct ACF to mean no PP cost. It's like an animal companion as an astral construct.

Then again, the wording's vague.

[Lateral]

I interpreted the Personal Construct ACF to mean no PP cost. It's like an animal companion as an astral construct.

Then again, the wording's vague.

That... would be pretty epic.

I'm... gonna go play a shaper now.

@V: Yeah, of course. The other one seems to me like a bit too much mozzarella.

[Endarire]

I also assumed I could only have one at a time. No spamming swift action 0PP astral construct.

[JKTrickster]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I really appreciate all of it!

Here is my final level 5 build.

Human Shaper 5

Str 8
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 18 + 1 (level 4 bonus) +2 (Item)
Wis 13
Cha 10

HP: 18
AC: 9
F/R/W: 4/1/6

Feats
H: Psicrystal Affinity (Artiste)
P: Overchannel
P: Personal Construct ACF
1: Boost Construct
3: Durable Construct

Powers
1st
Astral Construct
Vigor
Ecto Protection
Minor Creation, Psionic
Entangling Ectoplasm

2nd
Psionic Repair Damage
Share Pain
Detect Hostile Intent
Control Sound

3rd
Ectoplasmic Cocoon
Time Hop

[Psyren]

Dex 8


Ouch! No way you can bump that?

[JKTrickster]

I need the 13 for Wis....

Well if I take Cha 8 instead, sure why not?

EDIT: I just realized how close I am for dying (about a full attack away...that would probably just hit from my abysmal AC..:smalleek:)

[Ernir]

I need the 13 for Wis....

Well if I take Cha 8 instead, sure why not?

EDIT: I just realized how close I am for dying (about a full attack away...that would probably just hit from my abysmal AC..:smalleek:)

Definitely put one of the 8s in Cha.

Also, none of those powers require attack rolls, right?
Unless it's completely out of character, buy a Full Plate, wear it, and suck up the nonproficiency penalties. :smalltongue:

EDIT: You might be able to get one out of cool crystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm) or something, flavoring it some astral matter you have created.