Ruby Knight Vindicator

[molten_dragon]

The idea of the Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class looks pretty awesome to me, but I don't like how narrowly focused it is (have to worship Wee Jas). Has anyone made a generic version that will work for any god?

[fireinakasha]

1) Skip two more pages (page 125) past it's class abilities to the "adaptation" section.
2) Read it.
3) All your problems are solved.

[molten_dragon]

1) Skip two more pages (page 125) past it's class abilities to the "adaptation" section.
2) Read it.
3) All your problems are solved.

Though I appreciate the effort, that doesn't really solve my problems. All that section really says is that it can be adapted to suit worshipers of other deities. It give no information on how exactly to go about doing that.

Specifically, the requirement of 4 ranks in hide and the armored stealth ability in particular seem to be very wee jas specific, I was wondering if anyone had come up with things to replace them with for a more generic RKV.

[Mongoose87]

I believe there was a thread in the Hombrew section detailing alternate Windicators.

[Elfin]

I believe there was a thread in the Hombrew section detailing alternate Windicators.

I believe the technical term is 'WINdicator'.

[Incanur]

I adapted it to Red Knight in Faerun by switching the skill requirement to Martial Lore and the granted maneuvers to Devoted Spirit, Iron Heart, and White Raven. Still haven't decided what to do with armored sleath, though. :smallannoyed:

[Greenish]

Specifically, the requirement of 4 ranks in hide and the armored stealth ability in particular seem to be very wee jas specific, I was wondering if anyone had come up with things to replace them with for a more generic RKV.The sample RKV worships St. Cuthbert. :smallwink:

Besides, I don't see how hiding would be specific for WJ, it's not like she'd have Trickery domain.

[SurlySeraph]

I believe there was a thread in the Hombrew section detailing alternate Windicators.

Here are the Windicators you requested. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139711)

[Escheton]

Right, so you basically want to grab a well rounded, powerfull prestige and cut off the balance and keep the power?

[molten_dragon]

Right, so you basically want to grab a well rounded, powerfull prestige and cut off the balance and keep the power?

Huh? How does tweaking it minorly so that it focuses on a different deity remove any of the balance in the class? The wee jas only elements aren't really balance, they're just flavor, and as long as they're replaced by equally powerful things, the balance doesn't change.

[Escheton]

Good point, but part of the balance comes from the fluff actually.
They are the spanish inquisition assassins of the church.

By changing more then just the Deity you are messing with the balance.

If you want a dual progression cleric/initiatorclass, make one based on it. Just don't dishonour the name of the WINdicator.

[Mongoose87]

What balance? This class is broken.

[Escheton]

No it's not. Its the simple tricks to bypass having to take certain classes for the prereqs that make it more broken.

The class itself is just ToB version of sacred fist.

[Urpriest]

No it's not. Its the simple tricks to bypass having to take certain classes for the prereqs that make it more broken.

The class itself is just ToB version of sacred fist.

Sacred Fist doesn't get multiple swift actions per round.

[Akal Saris]

Yeah, there's no "tricks" involved in breaking RKV, Cleric 4/Crusader 1 is both an intended entry and probably the strongest possible entry as well.

Seriously, who the hell plays with the Eberron deities anyways? I don't think the fluff is intended to limit PCs' power by Wee Jas' domains either, since they are pretty damned good domains.

[SurlySeraph]

No, that's not true at all. You can't pick up Turn Undead via feats as far as I'm aware, and entering by picking up Martial Study and Martial Stance is usually less optimal than taking a Crusader level despite the lost caster level, due to the wasted feats, lower IL, and lack of recovery mechanic for whatever maneuver you take. The prereqs aren't the issue, the class features are.

RKV is powerful because it gets OK skills, good casting, maneuvers from three good schools, and especially because of Divine Impetus. Its other class features are only relevant inasmuch as they make Divine Impetus better, such as letting you trade Turn Undead attempts for full attacks with movement at a 3:1 rate (1 TU to gain a swift action, 1 TU to recover Shadow Blink as a swift action, 1 TU for a swift action to use Shadow Blink). Replacing Armored Stealth with something else is little more than a fluff change, because Armored Stealth provides very little power.

[molten_dragon]

Good point, but part of the balance comes from the fluff actually.

By changing more then just the Deity you are messing with the balance.

How, exactly?


If you want a dual progression cleric/initiatorclass, make one based on it. Just don't dishonour the name of the WINdicator.

Why, since a perfectly good class that already does that already exists.

[fireinakasha]

Here's an idea:

Chose a skill other than hide that armor check penalties apply to that would make sense for the deity - like swim for an ocean deity, or escape artist for a deity of freedom, etc. Then just make the skill requirement be for that skill, and make the armored stealth remove the armor check penalties for that skill instead.

Alternately, for a war god, you could require ranks in intimidate and make armored stealth instead a power that reduces/eliminates movement penalties for heavier armors.

[molten_dragon]

Here's an idea:

Chose a skill other than hide that armor check penalties apply to that would make sense for the deity - like swim for an ocean deity, or escape artist for a deity of freedom, etc. Then just make the skill requirement be for that skill, and make the armored stealth remove the armor check penalties for that skill instead.

Alternately, for a war god, you could require ranks in intimidate and make armored stealth instead a power that reduces/eliminates movement penalties for heavier armors.

I talked with the DM about it, and since I'll be playing a dwarf and worshiping the god of dwarves we did the following:

I get access to iron heart rather than shadow hand.
Replace the requirement of 4 ranks in hide with 4 ranks in balance.
Instead of no penalty on hide checks, I get no penalty on balance checks.

[Mongoose87]

That'll probably make getting in a bit easier, though no check penalties to balance isn't nearly as useful as hide, IMO. All in all, a fairly even tradeoff.

[Akal Saris]

Glad you and your DM figured something out =)