[3.pf] Building a Cleric

[Halae]

I've been playing warrior type characters for a long time now, pretty much ever since I've started playing dungeons and dragons, with a few times where I've played arcane characters (mostly wizards), but those weren't very optimized. I've decided to branch out, and try out a cleric. maybe not uber-powered, but of average optimization, surely.

I was wondering what the best feats, spells, and the like would be for a cleric that will likely be another character wading into battle in full-plate?

[Escheton]

Feats: Divine Metamagic(Persist spell), Persist spell
item: nightsticks, lots of them

have fun with your 24 hour rightious might and divine power.

That prettymuch it, the rest is icing.

[Coidzor]

Have a specific deity or alignment in mind yet? Your domain choices can yield quite the bit of power, and not just because you can trade them in for devotion feats.

And will you be starting from level 1 or somewhere higher? Yea or nay on flaws?

If you want to use Divine Metamagic, one of your domains should be Planning so that you start off with Extend Spell as a metamagic feat in order to qualify for Persist Spell and then DMM: Persist Spell.

If you dip a level in Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin), then you get the nice 4th level spell "Holy Sword" which makes a weapon a +5 Holy weapon that generates a magic circle against evil, so unless you have something more particular in mind with the weapon's enhancements that's fairly good, especially at the level it's obtained. And don't lose any caster progression for the first level of the dip to get the pally spells on the spell list. Also, adds martial weapons to your proficiencies for more fun in beating people. And you'd get everything but remove disease that a paladin grants with 3 levels of it with 2/3 caster progression.

[Greenish]

If DMM Persist seems a bit too much, you can use your turning attempts to fuel Devotion feats from CChamp. Of note are the Law (swappable, scaling AC or to hit bonus), Animal (scaling str bonus, flight speed or couple of other options) or Travel (move your speed as a swift action). Knowledge is also good, but not fueled by turning.

Remember that you can pick devotion feats up as normal feats too.

Power Attack and (if you took War domain) Holy Warrior are great feats for a melee cleric.

If you can part with some caster levels, Ordained Champion or PrC paladin make excellent dips, to be finished with the 9/10 casting & full BAB PrC of your choice.


[Edit]: Or do you perhaps want to turn undead. There are several ways to boost it into a viable tactic.

[Coidzor]

Knowledge Devotion is less good for a non-cloistered cleric due to how few skillpoints a regular cleric gets, though.

Also, that reminds me, Knight of the Raven (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) & Bone Knight (5 Nations, Eberron) are two good fighting-focused PrCs for cleric that don't lose much casting.

Alternatively, with a dip into crusader to qualify, Ruby Knight Vindicator can get nice maneuver progression from Tome of Battle while still netting 9th level cleric casting (I believe 1 level of crusader is needed, then RKV loses 2 more levels of spellcasting).

[Saph]

I'd suggest confirming with the player what sources are allowed before recommending 3.5 stuff. Note the "pf" in the thread title.

BTW, Pathfinder clerics don't get to wear fullplate.

[Coidzor]

I'd suggest confirming with the player what sources are allowed before recommending 3.5 stuff. Note the "pf" in the thread title.

The "3." in the thread title suggests that, yes, material from Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition is being used. But yes, he does need to tell us what materials he has available.


So, yeah, Harnel, what do you have to work with?


BTW, Pathfinder clerics don't get to wear fullplate.
Is this due to lack of armor proficiency or some mechanic punishing them if they do so (as in, they get ASF or sommat)?

[Saph]

Is this due to lack of armor proficiency or some mechanic punishing them if they do so (as in, they get ASF or sommat)?

No heavy armour proficiency. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/cleric.html) It was the only base class to have its armour proficiencies changed, if I remember right.

[Greenish]

Also, that reminds me, Knight of the Raven (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) & Bone Knight (5 Nations, Eberron) are two good fighting-focused PrCs for cleric that don't lose much casting.Indeed, they're two of the 9/10 full BAB classes I mentioned, and perhaps my favourites too. Others like that include Swanmay and Fist of Raziel.

I'd suggest confirming with the player what sources are allowed before recommending 3.5 stuff. Note the "pf" in the thread title.I've thought 3.PF means that both 3.5 and PF are valid sources.

[molten_dragon]

The Divine Metamagic/Persist is fairly cheesy, and you may not want to go there. Some other good suggestions are:

Divine Metamagic and Extend, not nearly as cheesy, but still useful. Actually, just extend by itself is pretty nice.

Augment healing and/or the healing reserve feat. Healing isn't really all that fun, but your party will expect it of you. The fewer spells you have to use for healing, the more you have for fun stuff.

Some of the domain devotion feats are good, I like protection devotion a lot.

[Coidzor]

Wand of Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium, I believe) is your friend for healing up between fights, followed by wand of cure light wounds. Touch of Healing (Complete Champion) is good for bringing people to half to save on wand charges and time with the lesser vigor route.

Depends on your group's proclivity for dropping below half HP after level 3 and if an individual use of the reserve feat's power can exceed the half HP cap whether it's worth the feat slot though.

Some thoughts on healing (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_And_why_you_will_be_Jus t_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal) if you haven't already looked into that area.

[Tael]

If DMM Persist is not allowed, go for Quicken. Not nearly as game breaking, and twice as fun.

[Halae]

As far as the sources go, While we are technically playing pathfinder, we're allowed nearly everything from 3.5. The following are excluded from the list

Fiendish Codex 1 and 2
Miniatures Handbook
Book of Exalted Deeds/Vile Darkness
Dragon Magazine

just about everything else is available

As far as the DMM persist goes, that's nigh unreasonable cheese. mixed with irresistable spell, a consumptive field could turn into a world destroying force. Fortunately, I'm not going to be doing that, as I don't want my DM to be drowning in cheddar, so I'll only be using DMM for things like extend and maximize, like it was intended. Looking into Power Attack with divine might is reasonably powerful, so good on that. However, I would like to hear this way of making turning a viable tactic.

Also, thank you everybody for responding

[Tvtyrant]

Best Domains:

Travel~You get teleport and fly, what isn't to love?
Magic~you get some nice spells and the ability to use wizard items.
Cold~Blastyness
Glory~You get Holy Weapon to add to Greater Magic Weapon
Force~Barrier Warrior!
Knowledge~ The more you know! Adds all of the knowledges to your skills


Those are my favorites/have the best overall abilities.

[Coidzor]

Spell domain gets you Anyspell which is nice.

Trying to remember where, but there's a discussion of domains based upon their domain powers vs. their spells granted, should check that out.

It's not in this handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0), gah... something like "domain users guide," was the title.

And of course, you'll have to compare what it has to say with the pathfinder changes to the domains.

Ahh, here's a link (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3927.0)on sovereign speakers and other domain users. May or may not be the one I was remembering, but it's a resource. This handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866830/The_Cleric_Handbook)does discuss it a bit as well.

And this is if you're interested in having a couple of MINIONS! around, and/or Jacinite doctrine appeals to you. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872726/Revised_Necromancer_Handbook)

[CockroachTeaParty]

I'd highly recommend looking into an archery cleric build. With the right feats and spell selections, clerics can turn into divine-powered turrets of death.

One good route is to play an elf or something, get the Elf and War domains, and grab Precise Shot, Holy Warrior, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Rapid Shot. The Elf domain gives you Point Blank Shot for free, being an elf lands you bow proficiency, and if you're doing ranged the whole time the CON penalty doesn't hurt as much. If you've got a wizard friend casting Haste, and a bard buffing you up with songs, you can unleash a veritable storm of death within the first round of combat.

If you're hurting for DEX, there's the Zen Archery feat that lets you apply WIS to ranged attacks, as well.

[Greenish]

However, I would like to hear this way of making turning a viable tactic.Well, it obviously works only against undead, but your should be able to dust quite a few of them by a single standard action.

Let's see:
Bonus to your effective cleric level
MIC has Ephod of Authority +1 for 700g
DMG has Phylactery of Undead Turning for 10,000g
A&EG has the Sacred armor/shield enhancement +2 for a +2 equivalent bonus
CDivine Glory Domain adds +1
LM Rod of Defiance lowers Turn Resistance of all undead within 30 by 4 for 10,000g

You can also increase your turning check:
DMG Cloak of Charisma (up to +6)
PHB Consecrate, also Sacred Exorcist (CDivine) gets a permanent personal one

The Exalted Turning feat (BoED) gives you extra turning damage.

The Risen Martyr (BoED) PrC grants you bonuses to Charisma specifically and ability checks (such as turning checks) generally, though the prerequisite is kind of harsh.

The Saint (BoED) template's "Holy Power" feature grants bonuses to Supernatural abilities (such as turning).

Pelor - and Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC (CDiv) - gives the best bumps to turning. The Sun Domain is probably the easiest way to increase the power of your turn attempts in Core.

The Sacred Exorcist PrC (CDiv) grants you the effects of a Consecrate spell.

The Empower Turning feat (CDiv) allows you to turn more undead.
Combo some of the above (ripped from Keld Denar & Telonius in an old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106249)) with Disciple of the Sun feat from CDiv, which allows you to burn two TU attempts to destroy the undead you'd normally turn away. There are several good cleric PrCs that advance turning.

[Coidzor]

Well, it obviously works only against undead, but your should be able to dust quite a few of them by a single standard action.

Let's see:
Bonus to your effective cleric level
MIC has Ephod of Authority +1 for 700g
DMG has Phylactery of Undead Turning for 10,000g
A&EG has the Sacred armor/shield enhancement +2 for a +2 equivalent bonus
CDivine Glory Domain adds +1
LM Rod of Defiance lowers Turn Resistance of all undead within 30 by 4 for 10,000g

You can also increase your turning check:
DMG Cloak of Charisma (up to +6)
PHB Consecrate, also Sacred Exorcist (CDivine) gets a permanent personal one

The Exalted Turning feat (BoED) gives you extra turning damage.

The Risen Martyr (BoED) PrC grants you bonuses to Charisma specifically and ability checks (such as turning checks) generally, though the prerequisite is kind of harsh.

The Saint (BoED) template's "Holy Power" feature grants bonuses to Supernatural abilities (such as turning).

Pelor - and Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC (CDiv) - gives the best bumps to turning. The Sun Domain is probably the easiest way to increase the power of your turn attempts in Core.

The Sacred Exorcist PrC (CDiv) grants you the effects of a Consecrate spell.

The Empower Turning feat (CDiv) allows you to turn more undead.
Combo some of the above (ripped from Keld Denar & Telonius in an old thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106249)) with Disciple of the Sun feat from CDiv, which allows you to burn two TU attempts to destroy the undead you'd normally turn away. There are several good cleric PrCs that advance turning.
Some more thoughts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7847733&postcount=20)

I believe there's also a Lyre of the Restful Soul that also gives another negative to turn resistance that stacks with that rod. Possibly from Libris Mortis as well, so if you have some perform ranks or a friend with perform ranks you can get some additional penalties to your foes' resistance.

I would have sworn that Sacred Armor received an update outside of the AE&G though. Huh. :smallconfused: The bonus is untyped, so, if you're in, say, a chain shirt, dastana, chahar-aina, holding a shield in one hand, have an animated shield, and possibly wearing a buckler on the other arm (can't remember if dastana preclude bucklers) that's around 6 times you could get the Sacred armor/shield property's bonus to effective cleric level for turning purposes.

Of course, this is also a lot of money for +3 equivalent pieces of armor, several of which don't contribute anything beyond being vessels for the property. This was just me waxing sillily on it. Still, another +2 or +4 on turning from being a sword and board cleric is always useful.

Oh, and apparently there's a Scepter of the Netherworld in Libris Mortis that also boosts turn undead level.

Also, Improved Turning is a feat that gives another level to effective character level, and it's only really good for a level 1 cleric who wants to be able to dust/command basic skeletal undead from level 1 and then retrained somewhere between levels 2 and 4. If you can get it on an item though, well, that's a different thing entirely. Likely still wouldn't be cost effective though.

So...Items: Scepter of the Netherworld (LM) +3 cleric levels, held object
Sacred armor/shield property (AE&G) +2 cleric levels per item, armor/shield
Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1 cleric level, neck slot
Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG) +4 cleric levels, neck slot

Rod of Defiance (LM) Turn Resistance of Undead -4, held object
Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM) Turn Resistance of Undead -4, activated object

Domains:
Glory Domain (Complete Divine) +1 cleric level

Feats: Improved Turning (PHB) +1 cleric level

So, effectively, a boost of 12 levels if one has a shield and armor with it and a penalty of 8 to undead with the items, and all together is +22 effectively. With additional silliness with Sacred dastana, extra shields, and/or applying armor properties bracers of armor, that could get to something like +30, +32.

If Planar Touchstones are in play, the Catalogues of Enlightenment are another way to get the Sun Domain.


Alternatively, if you can't actually get your effective cleric level high enough to dust 'em outright, depending upon your DM's use of undead* , you can angle for the ACF from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft that lets you deal damage to them, which, with quicken turning can put on a fair bit of hurt along with the boosts to effective cleric level.

Some of these tools are also quite useful if you want to rebuke niftier things. Though I have yet to figure out the source of the "positive energy levels," Frank and K referred to in their Necromancy guide as being so cheesy that it would be instantly banned by DMs that recognized what they could do.

*(unlikely if you pull out enough of the stops, though you're likely to run into a lot more evolved undead with their bonuses to turn resistance if you pull out all of the stops, so might trigger an arms race, might not)

[Greenish]

If Planar Touchstones are in play, the Catalogues of Enlightenment are another way to get the Sun Domain.True, but the granted power of Sun domain is 1/day, while Disciple of the Sun allows you to do the same thing as often as you want, though it takes two TU attempts.


Hmm, to add to the list, War Cross of St. Cuthbert increases your "effective divine caster level" for turning by one.

[Coidzor]

True, but the granted power of Sun domain is 1/day, while Disciple of the Sun allows you to do the same thing as often as you want, though it takes two TU attempts.


Hmm, to add to the list, War Cross of St. Cuthbert increases your "effective divine caster level" for turning by one.

Indeed, was mostly mentioning it for completion's sake. Where's the War Cross from?

On that vein, Flame-touched iron holy symbols are from the Eberron Campaign Setting, page 127, though are highly setting specific and dependent, and they boost effective cleric level for turning by 1. Since it's a material the holy symbol is made out of, though, it can easily be combined with magical items as a simple boost in the price for materials cost rather than having to invoke magical item property stacking ala MIC or do without. And since there's a way to make a shield or armor into a holy symbol in Dungeonscape, if the armor/shield is made of Flame-touched iron, it'll give the flame-touched iron bonus in addition to the bonus from Sacred. Depending on DM interpretation/rules text, this may or may not be able to be managed by just having the add-on to the armor made out of flame-touched iron.

Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has a moonfriend ring (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7851952&postcount=40) that gives a +3 to level for turning.

The Light of X spells from Complete Champion give nice bonuses to the next turn attempt one does, but in particular Light of Wisdom is great because it gives +1 to effective turning level for every 3 Caster Levels. And is a 3rd level spell, so it starts as a +1, then jumps quickly to +2 and then scales up to a +6 at 18th. And although it's [Good], it can be used by Neutral Necromancer Clerics too! :smallbiggrin:

And Ghostwalk does have a feat called Divine Energy Focus that gives a +2 to effective turning level and other benefits, so it's strictly better than improved turning as it improves turning checks and turning damage rolls by 2 as well.

New tally: Boosting turn undead and effective cleric level as high as it will go
Items that boost turning level:

Scepter of the Netherworld (LM) +3 cleric levels, held object 9,000 gp

Sacred armor/shield property (AE&G) +2 cleric levels per item, armor/shield so +4 total, cost: +2 bonus (minimum of 9,000 gp each)

Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1 cleric level, neck slot? torso slot? 700 gp

Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG) +4 cleric levels, neck slot 11,000 gp

Moonfriend Ring (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) +3 cleric levels, ring slot 9000 gp (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8936.100)

Flame-touched iron holy symbol* (ECS, 127) +1 cleric level per item, material, so +3 total. 750 gp for holy symbol +1000 gp for an armor/shield made of it, +50 gp for sanctified armor/shield property.

War Cross of St. Cuthbert (Complete Champion) +1 cleric level, holy symbol 350 gp +750 gp for flametouched-iron (the section on page 133 states that the cost for such a holy symbol already covers 100 gp of materials, so I'd say subtract 100 gp from the 750 gp for the material to be flame-touched iron, so it'd cost 1,000gp rather than 1,100 gp)

Talisman of Undead Mastery (MIC) 3 charges, 1 charge +2 cleric levels, 2 charges +3 cleric levels, 3 charges +4 cleric levels, neck slot. (could get multiple and switch them out with an alternate body slot, otherwise is stuck getting stacked onto the neck slot) 3,000 gp

Items that negate turn resistance:

Rod of Defiance (LM) Turn Resistance of Undead -4, held object, 13,000 gp

Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM) Turn Resistance of Undead -4, activated object, 3,000 gp

total cost of equipment:
13000
3000
3000
1000
2100
9000
11000
700
9000
18000
=
69,800 gp in gear + the cost of the masterwork shield(light shield or buckler, need to be able to hold something in the hand) and armor(chain shirt if the dastana+chahar-aina trick is to be used, else full-plate?) (so 300+X+Y gp)

also, potentially -500 gp if the flame-touched iron holy symbol price can be combined directly with the sanctified armor/shield property without having to make the entire armor/shield out of flame-touched iron, as unlikely as that probably is.

Domains:

Glory Domain (Complete Divine) +1 cleric level, +1d6 turning damage

Feats:

Improved Turning (PHB) +1 cleric level

Divine Energy Focus (Ghostwalk) +2 cleric level, +2 to turning checks and turning damage rolls.

Spells: no gp or xp cost

Light of Wisdom (Complete Champion) +1 cleric level for 3 caster levels. +6 at level 20, +7 at level 20 for clerics with the good Domain. no material components.

So, effectively, +19 levels and a penalty of 8 to undead with the items, +4 from feats and domain, and all together is effectively +31 unbuffed. +38 buffed if a good domain cleric, +37 if buffed w/out good domain. +42 with the nova from the talisman of undead turning and good domain, +41 with the nova otherwise.

At level 20, with the good domain, only two creatures are not automatically destroyed or commanded with a regular turn/rebuke undead. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872726/Revised_Necromancer_Handbook&post_num=2#338468934)

With additional silliness with Sacred dastana, extra shields, and/or applying armor properties bracers of armor, that could get to something like +47-48 without novaing, +51-52 with the nova, though no reason for the nova at that point, as once one has effective cleric level of 64, all printed undead creatures are automatically commanded or destroyed. And be two domains, two feats, and a lot of GP sunk into the turning trick. Most of these could also be used for rebuking as well, however.


*combine with Sanctified Armor/Shield from Dungeonscape to make your shield or armor into the holy symbol in order to have hands free for both scepters. Either +800 gp or the cost of making the armor out of flame-touched iron (cost of armor + 1000 gp) +50 gp for it being sanctified. I feel this is entirely up to DM adjudication as to how they interact, though if you don't need mithril armor, this won't affect a cleric quite so much. Also, as the rules don't require one to use the flame-touched iron holy symbol to actually turn undead with, it should stack with Sacred for a total +3 per armor/shield.

honorable mention:
(Bone Talisman wizards website (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a): druid spell, grants 1 use of turn undead per casting of the spell with cleric level for turning equal to CL.)

This is fairly out of date guide to turning (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872990/Comprehensive_Guide_to_Turning), but still has some useful stuff in it.

[Greenish]

Indeed, was mostly mentioning it for completion's sake. Where's the War Cross from?Oh, I forgot to say. It's one of the more powerful holy symbols introduced in Complete Champion. The rules could allow for one even more focused on turning.

There's no particular reason why one of the "greater symbols" (I forget what the book calls them) couldn't also be made from Flame-touched Iron.

[Edit]: Talisman of Undead Mastery from MIC also increases your effective cleric level for turning or rebuking. Three daily charges, burn more for greater effect (all three increase your effective level by 4).

[Coidzor]

Oh, I forgot to say. It's one of the more powerful holy symbols introduced in Complete Champion. The rules could allow for one even more focused on turning.

There's no particular reason why one of the "greater symbols" (I forget what the book calls them) couldn't also be made from Flame-touched Iron.

[Edit]: Talisman of Undead Mastery from MIC also increases your effective cleric level for turning or rebuking. Three daily charges, burn more for greater effect (all three increase your effective level by 4).

Indeed, thank you for pointing that out. In fact, I just noticed that it doesn't even require that the holy symbol be the one that is used in the turning process, so as long as the DM didn't shut it down, unlikely as that may be, the +1 to effective turning level from flame-touched iron holy symbols would stack with one another and the sacred armor enhancements. So that's a +3 for each item of armor/shield one is wearing and an additional +1 to the War Cross.

Might lead to a slight bit of trickiness to have it and the scepter and the rod of Defiance, but one doesn't actually need to hold the Rod of Defiance, as far as I can tell from the object description, so an ally can hold it as long as they're close enough to you and the drummer(?!?) on the Lyre of the Restful Soul.

So that leads to breaking into the +41-42 range for the nova even barring the multiple shields thing. So that leaves, at level 20, 4 creatures released that can't be instantly commanded/destroyed by such a cleric who has sunken a significant portion of his wealth into this, and only 2 if he has the good domain, 0 if he has dastana or chahar-aina or an extra shield/buckler or bracers of armor with the sacred property. I'll calculate out the GP cost of all of this in a bit. Calculated. except for moonfriend ring.

I left out nightsticks from the price calculation due to the variable number of them one would have, but they are highly useful pieces of equipment for those who use DMM, or who are still dependent upon Disciple of the Sun and using 2 uses of turn undead per turning attempt.

The price so far would be all of a character's WBL until somewhere between 11th and 12th level, and half WBL or more until almost 15th level, but by 20th it's not that much of the character's WBL. Of course, by that high of a level, any undead that lets a cleric get off a turning check is suicidal anyway or completely immune through some means.

And that's a tangent on pretty much more than you ever wanted to know about how to boost effective cleric level for turning/rebuking undead. Though with the spell Turn Anathema or some other way of being able to apply turn undead to turning enemy outsiders, this can become quite fun.

[Halae]

Hehe. I just spoke to my DM. apparently, he's going to be running us along with Atropus from Elder Evils

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The turn undead advice is really going to help:smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

Hehe. I just spoke to my DM. apparently, he's going to be running us along with Atropus from Elder Evils

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The turn undead advice is really going to help:smallbiggrin:As with any very effective but very focused tactic, the DM is liable to circumvent it by some means, especially for important villains.

And, as usual, do not put all your eggs into one basket, even if you're a full caster with the width and breadth of the spell list a cleric offers.

[Halae]

As with any very effective but very focused tactic, the DM is liable to circumvent it by some means, especially for important villains.

And, as usual, do not put all your eggs into one basket, even if you're a full caster with the width and breadth of the spell list a cleric offers.

Fair enough. I'm thinking of making him a fighting focused cleric, you know, the usual stuff like Divine Might and power attack, so that I'm not unreasonably cheesy. I'll be sure to get minimum +8 on my turn checks though and destroy them outright, simply because the campaign is going to be undead heavy. That heaing reserve feat also looks very worthwhile, since another party member is going to be a Frenzied Berserker *groan*

[Greenish]

Fair enough. I'm thinking of making him a fighting focused cleric, you know, the usual stuff like Divine Might and power attack, so that I'm not unreasonably cheesy.Ordained Champion (CChamp) has full BAB, good fightin' features, 3/5 casting (loses on even levels) and fully advances turning. You'll qualify easily at cleric 4. Gets extra domain, too.

PrC Paladin also sports full BAB, loses casting on even levels and advances turning. 2-3 level dip would only lose you a level of casting, and gain access to all paladin spells, as well as cha to saves.

Knight of the Raven (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) has (aside from the special which is setting specific) easy entry requirements, 9/10 casting, full BAB, cool class features designed for fighting undead (including granting Sun domain) and, if my memory serves, 8/10 advance in turning level.


Those should get you started. :smallwink:

[Sillycomic]

You said you are technically using Pathfinder...

Doesn't that mean you are technically using Channel energy instead of Turn Undead?

That changes a lot of things, including some advice. Pathfinder clerics don't get Turn Undead. They channel positive or negative energy that can help allies or hurt enemies. (including undead)

Unless your GM is just saying that those things are both the same.

[Halae]

You said you are technically using Pathfinder...

Doesn't that mean you are technically using Channel energy instead of Turn Undead?

That changes a lot of things, including some advice. Pathfinder clerics don't get Turn Undead. They channel positive or negative energy that can help allies or hurt enemies. (including undead)

Unless your GM is just saying that those things are both the same.

well, there goes where I'd have spent a good portion of my money. ah, well, I can still outfight most melee characters with the proper buff spells, so it's all good

Knight of Raven also looks very good. I'll have to check it out

[Greenish]

well, there goes where I'd have spent a good portion of my money.You can still pick TU up with a feat. It should be premium in a high undead density game, when coupled with tricks to dust the turned buggers.

[Edit]: My bad, PF TU lacks the insta-kill part. Probably better to skip it.

[Paul H]

Hi

There is a sub-class of Cleric in PF Chronicles (Pg 43) that allows full BAB, full casting, but lose Domains & Domain Powers in lieu. They also gain D10 HP, but NO Hvy Armour prof. (They are proficient with Cleric & their Deity's preferred weapon).

If you add just one level of Magus at some time, you'll gain access to all martial Weapons, plus the Shield spell (amongst others).

Thanks
Paul H

[Sillycomic]

If you are still taking advice...

Might I suggest the plant domain for your epic fighter cleric?


1. Plant subdomain gives you Enlarge person as a swift action 3 times a day plus your wisdom modifier. You get Bramble Armor as a free action at 6th level, which hurts anyone who comes within melee contact with you.

2. You get barskin and righteous might as domain spells.


In this case the gardener makes a better fighter.

[Halae]

If you are still taking advice...

I'll be taking advice until friday, when the game proper starts and everybody goes through character creation. currently, I'm just taking notes