(3.5) Opinion on Duskblades

[Atheon]

Hi, I'm just curious as to what peoples opinion on this class is. It seems pretty decent to me but the limited spell list kind of turns me away. What do you think.:smallconfused:

[gbprime]

They're great for multiclassing. Free combat casting at level 2, and arcane channelling at level 3.

IN fact, read Arcane Channeling again. "any touch spell you know". Doesn't say it has to be a Duskblade spell.

[Atheon]

True, but it is a little lame that as a pure class they can't really standalone as well as a pure spell caster or war mage

[Mongoose87]

Actually, they can make pretty nice single-classed casters, seeing as they get full attack channeling, later on in their careers.

[Greenish]

True, but it is a little lame that as a pure class they can't really standalone as well as a pure spell caster or war mageI'm not sure what you mean. They most definitely can stand alone better than Warmages (unless you go rainbow shenanigans), and not being as good as most full casters is a good thing.

Anyhow, there was an expanded spell list for them haunting the forums.

[gbprime]

Actually, they can make pretty nice single-classed casters, seeing as they get full attack channeling, later on in their careers.

Indeed. They can light someone up with channelled spells. And a small spell list is fine when it's doing exactly what you need it to do. A single classed duskblade can compete with a single classed Crusader, for example, you just usually don't find them single classed.

[Tvtyrant]

They can do megalithic damage by adding pounce to full attacking with a touch spell. Like Vampiric Touch, healing you up to multiple times you base hp.

[Mongoose87]

Indeed. They can light someone up with channelled spells. And a small spell list is fine when it's doing exactly what you need it to do. A single classed duskblade can compete with a single classed Crusader, for example, you just usually don't find them single classed.

See, almost all of the builds I've ever seen that use Duskblade recommend single-classing, so you don't miss out on channeling.

[Atheon]

I'm not sure what you mean. They most definitely can stand alone better than Warmages (unless you go rainbow shenanigans), and not being as good as most full casters is a good thing.

Anyhow, there was an expanded spell list for them haunting the forums.

I meant spell casting wise

[Greenish]

I meant spell casting wiseYes, they're worse at casting than full casters. I don't see how this is a problem.

[Zaq]

They're better than the warmage (by which I mean the class in Complete Arcane, not just "any blaster caster"). They're limited in that they really don't do much other than DAMAGEDAMAGEDAMAGEDAMAGE, but if that's your thing, they're a gish that's relatively hard to screw up. The standard trick is to take Arcane Strike and pour some of your million extra slots (you do have a Ring of Wizardry I, right? That's at the top of any duskblade's wish list) into extra d4s (by my reading, the to-hit bonuses don't stack, but the d4s do. Ask your GM) on pretty much every swing they make.

One of the biggest hurdles to overcome is energy resistance. Getting at least a couple hard-to-resist spells to channel is a good idea. If you're not pursuing a feat-heavy path, you may want to take Rapid Metamagic, Energy Substitution (Fire), and Searing Spell, so that you can make just about any energy spell unresistable for only a +1 spell level increase. Depending on how your GM feels about metamagic reducers, you might even be able to shave off that +1 somehow.

Also, duskblades don't make good utility casters. For example, they don't even get a proper dispel until ECL 13 at the earliest, and even that's just Dispel Magic, not even the Greater version . . . Dispelling Touch is well and good, but all too often I find that you either can't or don't want to touch the things that really need dispelling. You can and should have a few extra magical tricks that make you more than "a fighter whose blade is on fire," but I wouldn't trust a duskblade to cover any sort of magical support role.

That said, they're hard to screw up, they do good damage, and they're less boring than an out-of-the-box barbarian.

[WinWin]

They are not wizards, despite casting spells. They play differently than a Gish. I prefer to think of them as fighters with actual class features.

[Atheon]

thanks for all of the opinions, I think I'll do a little more research. see ya later

[Dralnu]

Do you like playing melee with spellcasting flavor? Then Duskblades are awesome. They can do tremendous damage and have more versatility than your average power attack barbarian.

They're also really darn simple. You can go straight duskblade and be effective. You don't need any variants or fancy things. PHB 1&2 and you're golden. You don't need to jump through hoops to optimize either. Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior and Knowledge Devotion from Complete Champion go a long way. If you still want more then the class tells you at level 13 that now you can multiclass for more power if you really want to.

It's easily one of my top 3 favorite base classes.

[true_shinken]

Duskblades are awesome. I really think they are one of the best designed classes in the game. A Duskblade is not too weak and not too powerful. He has build options and he has awesome fluff (the name alone is awesome - melee is day, magic is night, so you're a duskblade).
Indeed, I think duskblade is a pretty cool guy. He channels spells and doesn't afraid of anything. :smallcool:
Also, check my Bladesinger substitution level for them, where I try to get the Bladesinger prc fluff in the Duskblade chassis. /shamelessplug

[fireinakasha]

I also once wondered about Duskblades.

For me, the /thread occurred when I realized that dimension door is a touch spell and on their spell list.

Also consider that the ability to deliver touch spells through a full attack means that you have the opportunity to buff an entire party with a single casting of what is usually a single-target spell.

[Psyren]

They're good at what they're meant to do (i.e. gish-in-a-can); naturally I prefer Psywars but Duskblades are decent nonetheless.

Their other function was a public apology for the Hexblade; in that, WotC did quite well.

[true_shinken]

Their other function was a public apology for the Hexblade; in that, WotC did quite well.
Poor Hexblades are not that bad. Their fluff is pretty good, they make for quite sturdy debuffers and the author's fix makes them a lot better as well.

[Shade Kerrin]

My opinion on Duskblade? It's too good.
Not in terms of tiers, capacity or power, it's just so perfectly suited to what I intend with it that it takes all the challenge away.

Kind of like how my friend always throws the book at me if I suggest Swift Hunter for something.

[arguskos]

Courtesy of our very own venerable Roland St. Jude comes the suggested Duskblade Spell List Expansion!

Spell Compendium:
L0
Caltrops
Electric Jolt
Know Greatest Enemy
Launch Item
Stick

L1
Corrosive Grasp
Critical Strike
Deafening Clang
Fist of Stone
Ice Dagger
Lightfoot
Nerveskitter
Nightshield
Persistent Blade
Phantom Threat
Rhino's Rush
Snowshoes

L2
Battering Ram
Bladeweave
Body of the Sun
Bristle
Combust
Daggerspell Stance
Delusions of Grandeur
Fireburst
Flame Dagger
Infernal Wound
Ironthunder Horn
Mountain Stance
Rainbow Beam
Scorch
Shadow Spray
Weapon Shift
Wracking Touch

L3
Belker Claws
Body Blades
Clarity of Mind
Diamondsteel
Find the Gap
Knight's Move
Know Opponent
Moon Blade
Ring of Blades
Spectral Weapon
Spider Poison
Steeldance
Sppress Breath Weapon
Unluck
Whirling Blade

L4
Bands of Steel
Blindsight
Displacer Form
Flame Whips
Forcewave
Frost Breath
Lion's Charge
Mind Poison
Vulnerability

L5
Acid Sheath
Aura of Evasion
Charge of the Triceratops
Emerald Flame Fist
Fireburst, Greater
Girallon's Blessing
Ray Deflection
Translocation Trick

Complete Mage
Assassin Spells
Bloodletting (1)
Catsfeet (1)
Summon Weapon (2)
Rusted Blade (3) (or (4) as per Wiz/Sorc list)
Unseen Strike (4)

Wiz/Sorc Spells
Steam Jet (1)
Escalating Enfeeblement (2)
Heart of Air (2)
Tenacious Dispelling (3)
Heart of Water (3)
Prickling Torment (3)
Heart of Earth (4)
Crypt Warden's Grasp (5)
Touch of Vecna (5)
Heart of Fire (5)
Tactical Teleportation (6) as (5)

[true_shinken]

One of the biggest hurdles to overcome is energy resistance. Getting at least a couple hard-to-resist spells to channel is a good idea. If you're not pursuing a feat-heavy path, you may want to take Rapid Metamagic, Energy Substitution (Fire), and Searing Spell, so that you can make just about any energy spell unresistable for only a +1 spell level increase. Depending on how your GM feels about metamagic reducers, you might even be able to shave off that +1 somehow.
No need for Rapid Metamagic, my friend. Arcane channeling bypasses that. Ooooh yeah. :smallcool:

[Zaq]

No need for Rapid Metamagic, my friend. Arcane channeling bypasses that. Ooooh yeah. :smallcool:

Arcane Channeling explicitly states that "The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less." Since duskblades are spontaneous casters, metamagicked spells that they cast have, by default, a casting time of 1 full round. If you want to channel a metamagicked spell, you have to get it down to a standard action, which is where Rapid Metamagic comes in.

Are you seeing something different?

[true_shinken]

Are you seeing something different?
Not really, but a reading could swing both ways. When you use a spell with metamagic, you need a full round action to cast it, but the effect is still resolved in the same round - it does not change the casting time per se.

[fireinakasha]

Arcane Channeling explicitly states that "The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less." Since duskblades are spontaneous casters, metamagicked spells that they cast have, by default, a casting time of 1 full round. If you want to channel a metamagicked spell, you have to get it down to a standard action, which is where Rapid Metamagic comes in.

Are you seeing something different?

This could be argued against. It says "the spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less," and not "the spell must be cast as a standard action or less." Spontaneous metamagic causes the spell to be cast as a full-round action, but the spell description still lists casting time as 1 standard action, so it could be said that the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action, and therefore arcane channeling is still valid.

Certainly a munchkiny way to go about it, though.

[Salanmander]

Not really, but a reading could swing both ways. When you use a spell with metamagic, you need a full round action to cast it, but the effect is still resolved in the same round - it does not change the casting time per se.

"Full round action" is longer than "standard action" and shorter than "one round".

[true_shinken]

"Full round action" is longer than "standard action" and shorter than "one round".

Check what fireinakasha said. It's a possible reading.

[Incanur]

They can do megalithic damage by adding pounce to full attacking with a touch spell. Like Vampiric Touch, healing you up to multiple times you base hp.

Technically I don't believe temporary hp from the same source stack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76988). You get the highest damage rolled, though.

As for the class, I like it. It's a sort of gish that plays evenly.

[true_shinken]

Technically I don't believe temporary hp from the same source stack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76988). You get the highest damage rolled, though.

As for the class, I like it. It's a sort of gish that plays evenly.

I always thought that as well, until Rules Compendium came to smack me across the head with it's stacking rules.