Feats for my fighter questions.

[Gomar]

I know fighters get a bad rap around here, but i don't care...having fun with my character and my group.

I am about to hit 6th level (2Barb, 4Ftr) and pick up 2 Feats...

Already have: WF, CombatExpertise, Improved Trip, Iron Will, and Short Haft (swift action allows me to choke up on polearm and threaten adjacent)

Here are my considerations...though I would like your recommendations.

6th--Weapon Spec (as a pre-req for Mastery) & Power Crit*
*here is the issue--My crit range is only 20...but it is x3...basically, I really NEED to confirm when I get the chance...even if I take ImpCrit later, is PowerCrit worth a feat for such a paltry crit range?

8th(Ftr feat)--Weapon Mastery
9th(reg feat)--Improved Crit

So, is this a good set of decisions? I would be happy to hear your opinions and alternative suggestions. Feel free to suggest changing out some of the feats I already have, my DM would likely not mind...

Am I silly for not going the CLEAVE route?

[Smiling Knight]

Power attack is always good.

[Gomar]

sigh...yeah, i know....

so...give up the power crit, i presume?

[Defiant]

sigh...yeah, i know....

so...give up the power crit, i presume?

Opportunity cost.

Power attack is too good to pass up (even too good to have passed up so far along). Take it; you won't regret it.

[true_shinken]

I know fighters get a bad rap around here, but i don't care...having fun with my character and my group.
Congrats on sticking to your character concept. I already like you. :smallbiggrin:



So, is this a good set of decisions? I would be happy to hear your opinions and alternative suggestions. Feel free to suggest changing out some of the feats I already have, my DM would likely not mind...
Some sort of lockdown is always welcome. You already have Improved Trip - how about Power Attack + Standstill?
I see you have Short Haft, but I find the only use for it is when you have stellar bonus with your chosen weapon, and you just have Weapon Focus. If you could retrain it and buy armor spikes you'd probably end up with a power boost - specially since you save your swift actions.
Also, since you already have Combat Expertise, I can't help but suggest a look in my defensive fighting guide.
But definetely, definetely take Power Attack. Also, level 6 is where you qualify for tactical feats. And they are awesome.


Am I silly for not going the CLEAVE route?
Probably not. Cleave tends to suck unless your DM enjoys throwing mobs at you (I particularly love doing this, but YMMV).

[Flickerdart]

Cleave is a fine feat if you have spectacular reach, and can be assured of having another enemy in range. Great Cleave is useless - anything bunched up around you that you can kill in one shot was never a threat.

[Gomar]

I'll look at the tactical feats again...

As for cleave and mobs...i can't really tell...only played 4 games with this group, and we havent had much combat (still loads of fun, though).

I am giving in and going with Weapons Spec and Power Attack at 6th...the double damage for using a two-handed weapon IS too good to pass up...

I will stick with WS so that I can take Mastery...i think it is hard to argue with +2A/+2D

[Flickerdart]

I will stick with WS so that I can take Mastery...i think it is hard to argue with +2A/+2D
Not really. You can expect to be making maybe five attacks at 20th level (at best, without TWF or some such), translating that into 10 damage at the most. Stuff like Standstill, on the other hand, gives you a strategic option beyond "I sword this guy slightly more than I would otherwise sword him".

[Gomar]

can't find Standstill...please explain...

NVRMND...found it

[SurlySeraph]

I will stick with WS so that I can take Mastery...i think it is hard to argue with +2A/+2D

You most certainly can argue with it; compare Knowledge Devotion, which is available at 3rd level with no significant prereqs, gives you an automatic +1 attack and damage against everything if you put 1 skill point in each combat-related knowledge skill, and can get you a reliable +5 attack and damage against everything if you invest in it enough.

Plus Driving Attack, Slashing Flurry, and whatever the bludgeoning-related feat is that Weapon Mastery acts as a prereq for are all pretty weak.

With that said, as long as you have fun with it it's fine.

[true_shinken]

Plus Driving Attack, Slashing Flurry, and whatever the bludgeoning-related feat is that Weapon Mastery acts as a prereq for are all pretty weak.

Don't think so, they are quite good. The problem is their requirements.

[Adamantrue]

Weapon Mastery Feats aren't bad in certain circumstances, if you try to make them work. Mounted Combat with a Lance, so its +4 Damage on a Charge (or +6 with Spirited Charge). Two-Weapon Fighting, so you get double-duty out of it with matching (or at least qualifying) Weapons.

Also...Knowledge Devotion. Why is it always considered an Instead-Of, rather than an Addition-To, with Weapon Focus?

[Greenish]

You most certainly can argue with it; compare Knowledge Devotion, which is available at 3rd level with no significant prereqs, gives you an automatic +1 attack and damage against everything if you put 1 skill point in each combat-related knowledge skill, and can get you a reliable +5 attack and damage against everything if you invest in it enough.Straight fighters lack any Knowledges as class skills, so the earliest they could qualify is level 7 (and so take it at 9th level), and even then it eats most of their skillpoints (not that they have much to invest them into anyhow). It's still decent though.


Of course, Person_Man has a guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7047955&posted=1) for melee combos.

[Escheton]

Seeing you are using improved trip and a reach weapon.
And probably either have or are getting steadfast boots, Knockdown is pretty cool.

That way prettymuch every attack that hits also gives a free trip(without follow-up attack).

Exotic weapon prof: harpoon, gives you a good combatcontrol ranged weapon with decent damage.
Something you might be missing.

[Acanous]

you say "Level 6 Fighter" and "Dungeoncrasher" keeps echoing through my head.
You'd have to retrain for that to work, though :/
Still, if you could convince your DM to let you swap out Weapon Focus for Dungeoncrasher at 2, take Improved Bull Rush and Dungeoncrasher at 6, you could get some really good use out of that reach weapon of yours. Send your opponents flying. Through Walls.
Then pick up a level of barbarian to nab pounce and keep your attack after bull rush/charging.

[Vladislav]

I know you're probably not expecting comments on past feats you took, but ... did you know Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) gives you Improved Trip for free? Is it too late to ask your DM to change regular Barbarian into Wolf Totem? This will free up two feats - Imp. Trip and Combat Expertise for something else. Use them for Power Attack and Cleave.


you say "Level 6 Fighter" and "Dungeoncrasher" keeps echoing through my head.
Uhm, he's Barbarian 2/Fighter 4

[Person_Man]

Weapon Focus, Iron Will, Weapon Specialization, Power Critical, Weapon Mastery, Improved Crit, Cleave: All Suck. As a general rule, you should avoid spending Feats on minor static bonuses, and instead look for Feats that provide a special ability you can't cheaply buy with a magic item, and/or provide a scaled bonus, and/or reliably provide you with an extra attack(s) every round.

Combat Expertise: I know you probably only took this because it's a pre-req for Improved Trip, but it's worth mentioning that this Feat hurts your To-Hit when used, and that the bonus to AC isn't very impressive. An exception is if you can activate it with an Attack of Opportunity or Swift Action, but use your normal actions to do something that doesn't require an attack roll, such as casting a spell or using a magic item. But clearly you're not going to do that, so this Feat is essentially a "tax" for people who want to take Improved Trip.

Short Haft: In most cases you can just take a 5 ft step to adjust your reach as needed, or invest in Tumble cross class, or use spiked gauntlets or armor spikes or a natural weapon to attack. If you're using Enlarge Person or something similar a lot and absolutely need to kill the donut hole of reach, then a superior choice would be Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), which is "always on" and doesn't require a Swift Action to switch back and forth.

Improved Trip: A decent battlefield control option. But if you're going to use it, you should really invest in Knock-Down (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Knock-Down).

Anywho, you should probably check out my melee combo guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7047955) that Greenish linked to. It spells out all of the non-obscure options for you.

I know that you wasted your first 2 levels on Barbarian, but you can still pick up the first part of Dungeoncrasher with your 4th level feat, and then pick up the second at 6th level. Once you've finished out your Bull Rush combo, then pick another one you like. My suggestion is Fear or a Daze effect.

[Psyx]

Rapid recovery from LoM is a good anti-annoyance feat.

I quite like the heavy armour expertise line from RoS.

[SurlySeraph]

Don't think so, they are quite good. The problem is their requirements.

Slashing Flurry would be nice if it didn't put all your attacks at -5. It's usable, but that's a damn big penalty.

Crushing Strike gives you... +1 on subsequent attacks that round for each attack that hits. Woo, your last attack of the round might have -7 compared to your first attack instead of -10.

Driving Attack trades your full attack for one attack and either a bull rush or an auto-knockdown. Maaaaybe useful with Dungeoncrasher, but then Dungeoncrasher combines even better with Knockback, Shock Trooper, and other things that you don't have to wait until 14th level for.


Straight fighters lack any Knowledges as class skills, so the earliest they could qualify is level 7 (and so take it at 9th level), and even then it eats most of their skillpoints (not that they have much to invest them into anyhow). It's still decent though.

Education feat. Makes all Knowledges class skills. Fighters aren't exactly feat-starved. You'll need good Int for enough skill points, but good Int is a good idea for Combat Expertise + Improved Trip anyway, and it's not like you have something better to do with those skill points.

[Eldariel]

Don't think so, they are quite good. The problem is their requirements.

They aren't really as good as they should be; Slashing Flurry is an extra attack, which is awesome, but at -5 to all attacks which gets really severe in a hurry (mostly, means you get to PA for far less making the extra attack less impressive) unless you really sink resources into pumping To Hit.

And Driving Attack is nice, but it limits you to a single attack, which blows for obvious reasons. Even if they had no feat prerequisites, they'd be rather niché feats. And the prereqs are hard.