Prestigitation Abuse

[Black_Zawisza]

What ways to cheese it up with this handy cantrip has the Playground thought of? Here's mine, tell me if I'm wrong on this...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707

It says there that "You [can] increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal." Is there any RAW reason one couldn't heat the temperature of a humanoid's heart to 139 degrees, instantly killing them? :smallbiggrin:

[Zeta Kai]

Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

Here's the text for prestidigitation, bolded for emphasis. By RAW, I would say that killing someone is not a minor effect, & that doing so emulates the effects of several other spells, regardless of how they actually go about doing them. Also, the spell itself does not specify the heating power that you are referring to, so by RAW, it can't even do the thing that you say it can do; the rules that you are referencing are from a 3.0 splatbook, making it spurious at best. Lastly, to quote your source:


You increase the temperature of an object by about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the object's temperature returns to normal.

That says an object. By RAW, creatures are not objects, so again, it wouldn't work. You can interpret the hell out of the rules, but they are clear on several points. The spell can't do what you say that it can do. That's it, The End.

[Chilingsworth]

The RAW says it cant do damage or affect spellcaster concentration. I also thought it couldn't do anything against a creature or attended object unless the taget was willing, can't seem to find that, though.:smallconfused:

[Black_Zawisza]

Here's the text for prestidigitation, bolded for emphasis. By RAW, I would say that killing someone is not a minor effect,
Relatively minor in the big scheme of things. People die every day, it's a fact of life. :smallbiggrin:


doing so emulates the effects of several other spells, regardless of how they actually go about doing them.
But Prestigitation clearly emulates Mage Hand. Interesting. :smallwink:


Also, the spell itself does not specify the heating power that you are referring to, so by RAW, it can't even do the thing that you say it can do;
Fair enough. However, it does say that "It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round." One could simply "cleanse" a humanoid's heart of blood. :smalltongue:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm


the rules that you are referencing are from a 3.0 splatbook, making it spurious at best.Fair enough.


That says an object. By RAW, creatures are not objects, so again, it wouldn't work. You can interpret the hell out of the rules, but they are clear on several points. The spell can't do what you say that it can do. That's it, The End.
Note that I said it affected the humanoid's heart, not the humanoid itself.

[Chilingsworth]

Ok, even assuming the humanoid's heart is an object distinct from the humanoid itself, you still have neither line of sight nor line of effect to it because it's inside the humanoid's body cavity.:smalltongue:

[Black_Zawisza]

Ok, even assuming the humanoid's heart is an object distinct from the humanoid itself, you still have neither line of sight nor line of effect to it because it's inside the humanoid's body cavity.:smalltongue:
I see you're enjoying this. So am I. :smallbiggrin:

Very well. I use Prestigitation to clean a 1 foot cube of blood, centered on the humanoid's chest.

[Chilingsworth]

I see you're enjoying this. So am I. :smallbiggrin:

Very well. I use Prestigitation to clean a 1 foot cube of blood, centered on the humanoid's chest.

:smallbiggrin:

Clever, I'm not sure that can be ruled out, except that parts of creatures are not generally targetable indepentantly of the creatures themselves.

EDIT: Though one thing you might be able to do with prestigitation would be to cook/otherwise ruin the heart and/or brain of a corpse. That would make it much harder to bring back from the dead.

[Black_Zawisza]

:smallbiggrin:

Clever, I'm not sure that can be ruled out, except that parts of creatures are not generally targetable indepentantly of the creatures themselves.
Isn't there a variant rule somewhere that says you can target particular parts of a creature's body? Called shots, I believed they're called?

[Chilingsworth]

Isn't there a variant rule somewhere that says you can target particular parts of a creature's body? Called shots, I believed they're called?

If its a variant rule, it's not RAW. Also, I think that's only for weapons and other attack rolls. Prestidigitation doesn't have an attack roll. Finally, it would still require line of sight/line of effect.

Edit: I should note that prestidigitation is one of my favorite spells, whenever I play a class with the option to do so, I always put it on my sells known list and/or prepare it.

[Black_Zawisza]

If its a variant rule, it's not RAW. Also, I think that's only for weapons and other attack rolls. Prestidigitation doesn't have an attack roll. Finally, it would still require line of sight/line of effect.
Eh, it's irrelevant anyway. I'm not targeting a portion of the creature's body; all I'm doing is doing a bit of tiding up in a cubic foot of space that the BBEG just happened to wander into. What a tragedy. :smallfrown: :smallwink:

[Yuki Akuma]

Prestidigitation cannot deal damage.

Prestidigitation cannot emulate spells.

There is no 'interpretation' here. Prestidigitation cannot be used to kill. Ever. At all.

[Chilingsworth]

Eh, it's irrelevant anyway. I'm not targeting a portion of the creature's body; all I'm doing is doing a bit of tiding up in a cubic foot of space that the BBEG just happened to wander into. What a tragedy. :smallfrown: :smallwink:

The best spell for BBEG-cleaning is disintigrate. then prestdigitation to clean up the dust.

Actually, speaking of dust, one interesting use a party-member of mine put the spell to was as a counter to glitterdust: He used it to gather up the dust that had been thrown on him, then disposed of it. He wasn't blinded, so no clue if our dm would have allowed it to fix that, but it did allow him to regain his invisibility.

[Black_Zawisza]

Prestidigitation cannot deal damage.
Correct me if my memory is faulty, but aren't there methods of killing someone in D&D without dealing damage?


Prestidigitation cannot emulate spells.Except that qualifier makes no sense, because it says in the same paragraph that it can slowly move a pound of material, which Mage Hand can also do.


There is no 'interpretation' here. Prestidigitation cannot be used to kill. Ever. At all.
Sure, it can be used to kill; just without dealing damage. :smallwink:

[balistafreak]

Similar argument would to "create small objects" in creative places. The creature's open mouth. Nostrils, too. Shove them as far down the windpipe as we can.

Or in the middle of battle - we've inflicted pretty serious sword cut but not a fatal one, since our opponent's massively awesome and now we "create small objects" inside the wound, within a major vein that's been exposed. It gets sucked in until it reaches a smaller vein and gets stuck. Blood clots. Heart attack/stroke/death. Heck, even better if it breaks up inside because "materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile", because then we block the brain, not a larger blood vessel. :smallamused:

It is easily arguable that neither of these are damage.

The only printed effect with a duration is "Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour." The "create small objects" ability doesn't seem to pay attention to this duration, even if "they look crude and artificial... are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components". So I create small objects. A metric ton of small objects. They might be "fragile", but one ton of sand still buries and drowns you. Of course, creating a ton of any matter might not be "minor". :smalltongue:

I would personally never allow such a usage in my own games due to the "minor" clause (aka the DM veto clause), but it's still an amusing thought exercise.

[Yaiamyai]

Exactly where in the many manuals does it say you need a heart, or a beating heart, or blood in your heart, to live?

Where exactly does it say that normal anatomy even exists inside the body.

Sure some spells may potentially be worded to mention the heart and or stopping it, but then they probably also mention them getting killed, therefore the spell actually kills them, the heart stopping is just a minor cosmetic side effect.

All things that kill (except starvation and drowning (dehydration deal a special kind of damage according to sandstorm)) that i personally know of, do it because either it outright kills, or it deal enough hp damage to kill. The fencer critically hitting and piercing your heart doesn't kill you unless it dealt lethal damage.

Sure you could prolly prestidigitate all the blood from a person, but by RAW they don't actually need the blood to live.

[Ganurath]

Create a brittle porcelain object a few feet off the ground in an alley near the guards you need to sneak past. Remotely ignite a tindertwig laid out near lamp oil and paper to set fire to a building you want to discretely destroy. Make the food served to the easily offended diplomat taste like it went bad. The effects of Prestidigitation are wanting, but are versatile enough that the consequences of those effects can be substantial.

[senrath]

Except that qualifier makes no sense, because it says in the same paragraph that it can slowly move a pound of material, which Mage Hand can also do.


The phrasing is "any other spell effect", not "any spell effect".

[Hanuman]

Prestidigitation* was designed to be used creatively and not abused.
Damage means lethal, nonlethal, ability and perhaps level drain.

Most dangerous uses? It can create fire. It can cause social damage. That's about it.

The rest are really just pranks, but perhaps effective.

What I can tell from the link?

The combination of tie and stitch is pretty cool, I can imagine tying up a sleeping guard and when he gets up he trips, shoelaces could be tied together or pantlegs sewn.

Being able to hogtie someone by throwing a rope at them is also quite useful for a downed monster, because you never really know when they are "down".

[Psyren]

The phrasing is "any other spell effect", not "any spell effect".

This. If it is trying to mimic something already spelled out in the description, it will succeed. Anything else is a failure.



The combination of tie and stitch is pretty cool, I can imagine tying up a sleeping guard and when he gets up he trips, shoelaces could be tied together or pantlegs sewn.

In Elfsong, Harper Bard Danilo Thann uses the spell to do exactly that (tie someone's shoelaces together.)

[balistafreak]

heart stopping is just a minor cosmetic side effect

Funniest quote out of context ever.

[Hanuman]

In Elfsong, Harper Bard Danilo Thann uses the spell to do exactly that (tie someone's shoelaces together.)
Perhaps the sewn option then?

[Psyren]

Perhaps the sewn option then?

Eh? I wasn't contradicting you, I was backing you up - saying that there's precedent for that being a valid use of the spell.

[Yuki Akuma]

Except that qualifier makes no sense, because it says in the same paragraph that it can slowly move a pound of material, which Mage Hand can also do.

Mage Hand moves five pounds. Not one pound.

Five. Not one.

It is not emulating Mage Hand.

[Hanuman]

Eh? I wasn't contradicting you, I was backing you up - saying that there's precedent for that being a valid use of the spell.
Shoelace tying would be another spell's effect and therefore invalid for prest.?

[Zeta Kai]

Relatively minor in the big scheme of things. People die every day, it's a fact of life. :smallbiggrin:

So, if your DM killed your PC, using the shenanigans that you are describing here, & used your logic that it's minor because people die every day, are you saying that you would not cry foul? Players think that they are so clever when they cook up semi-illegal stunts like this, but they get so mad when the DM starts equipping the bad guys with the same tactics. If that's the game you wanna play, then be my guest. For my game, I prefer to have a gentlemen's agreement to not ruin the game with cheap tricks & deliberate RAWtardedness.

[dgnslyr]

I'm sure, with very clever application, you could indirectly kill someone with Prestidigitation. "Cleaning" a cubic foot of blood seems to be pushing it a bit, though.

[Black_Zawisza]

So, if your DM killed your PC, using the shenanigans that you are describing here, & used your logic that it's minor because people die every day, are you saying that you would not cry foul? Players think that they are so clever when they cook up semi-illegal stunts like this, but they get so mad when the DM starts equipping the bad guys with the same tactics. If that's the game you wanna play, then be my guest. For my game, I prefer to have a gentlemen's agreement to not ruin the game with cheap tricks & deliberate RAWtardedness.
...you realize we're all just having fun here, right? Nobody's seriously going to try and pull this in front of a DM. Jeez, it's just a funny brain exercise.


Mage Hand moves five pounds. Not one pound.

Five. Not one.

It is not emulating Mage Hand.
One of the functions of Mage Hand is moving one pound of material. Prestigitation can do just that.

But yes, as others have corrected me before, it's "any other spell", not "any spell".

[AnswersQuestion]

...you realize we're all just having fun here, right? Nobody's seriously going to try and pull this in front of a DM. Jeez, it's just a funny brain exercise.

It's one that should be avoided, mostly, at least as far as the image of the gamer community is concerned. If careful readers may not see through the joke, what to say about players eager to find excuses to exploit? They're bad enough without a creative boost.

[Psyren]

Shoelace tying would be another spell's effect and therefore invalid for prest.?

Which spell says "tie target's shoelaces?" :smallconfused:

[Hanuman]

Which spell says "tie target's shoelaces?" :smallconfused:
I guess I misread Elfsong for a sourcebook.

[AnswersQuestion]

Well, tieing shoelaces are rather hard to do with prestidigitation for two reasons.
1) It's a complex, refined movement that doesn't fit under "slowly lift".
2) Most shoes don't have laces in pseudomedieval society.

[senrath]

I guess I misread Elfsong for a sourcebook.

The Elfsong example was using Prestidigitation, not some other spell.

[Psyren]

Well, tieing shoelaces are rather hard to do with prestidigitation for two reasons.
1) It's a complex, refined movement that doesn't fit under "slowly lift".
2) Most shoes don't have laces in pseudomedieval society.

Clearly they do in Faerun, given that it was a Faerun novel.

(They were described as "bootlaces" not "shoelaces" if that makes a difference.)

I'm sure if you present your arguments to Elaine Cunningham, she'll publish errata to her novel.

[AnswersQuestion]

:p will do. Mage Hand would be a more appropriate spell for such a trick.

[Hanuman]

tieing shoelaces are rather hard to do with prestidigitation
1) It's a complex, refined movement that doesn't fit under "slowly lift".

Stitch: You magically sew seams in textiles or leather. You can create new stitching or repair old work. Unlike the mending cantrip, you cannot heal rips, holes, or tears (though you can patch or sew them together). If you have thread on hand, the stitches you make remain after the effect ends, but they are no stronger or weaker than normal stitching. You also can sew without thread, but then the seams last only an hour.

Tie: You magically tie a firm knot (as though taking 10 with the Use Rope skill) in a thread, string, cord, rope, or cable up to 10 feet long. You can knot together two such objects if they're within 1 foot of each other.
Might want to read the first post.

[Psyren]

Might want to read the first post.

Away with you and your reading comprehension!

[Zeta Kai]

...you realize we're all just having fun here, right? Nobody's seriously going to try and pull this in front of a DM. Jeez, it's just a funny brain exercise.

You forgot the funny part. There's simply nothing funny about using a false premise to propose an impossibility that a game's arbiter wouldn't allow even if it were possible. You asked if it could be done, & your answer is No. It didn't require much exercise to reach that conclusion, & no humor was derived from doing so.

[TaintedDeity]

'Fun' and 'Funny' are subjective. You're not enjoying yourself, but others are. {Scrubbed}

[Magic Myrmidon]

I've enjoyed the ridiculous ideas in this topic, for one. But, you know, to each his own.

I guess you could theoretically drop a pound of material on a level one, fine, pixie or something? >.>

[OracleofWuffing]

Ah, but you see, this icicle isn't merely an icicle, it's the only thing holding this lever in place. With just a little bit of heat, the lever will snap. What does this lever do? Well, do you see that dragon over there? Oh, sure, he's asleep now, but this lever is connected to the platform upon which that dragon rests. With just one cantrip, that dragon goes flying through the air. You see your floating castle over there? You see my Intelligence mod? That's right. I predict that the dragon goes straight through the air, and at its expected velocity and arc, it will crush the magical ring of levitation that holds up your precious castle. Yes, you see where this is going: that ring gets crushed, gravity kicks in, and all of your monsters suffer the weight of the 3.5 falling objects rules as your castle crumbles under its own weight.

Alternatively, I could just break the icicle with my own hand, I mean, it's more of an ice thread, and then use prestidigitation to clean the dirt off my hands afterwards, but I really wanted to make that reference.

[nolispe]

heart stopping is just a minor cosmetic side effect.


Can I sig this?

[FelixG]

I have a fun idea for its use



It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components.


Now if we look at this you can do one really mean thing to spell casters with a prepared prestidigitation

You create a largish rubber ball in their mouth thus stopping their verbal component for spells. You are not breaking their concentration BUT you are negating one of the required components for a spell :smallbiggrin:

Sure the thing may be fragile, but it would likely take a swift action to chomp it in half and spit it out, granted you have to be within 10 feet of a spell caster and invoke his fury to do this, but might be fun for an invisible gnome to do to screw with someone

[Yuki Akuma]

Generally magic can't create or summon things inside other things. This includes inside mouths.

And I agree with Zeta Kai: it's just not funny.

[Ravens_cry]

A better cantrap abuse is create water inside a creature that has swallowed you. With some CL increase, you could probably get the creature above it's carry limit. Or (this is not RAW, but I say it makes sense), force a Fortitude save to not puke you out.
A makes sense, but not RAW, possibility, is Purify Food and Drink to purify their blood in good clean water. I would say, unless you're in the monster and can make a wound, it would require an attack roll on an already wounded creature, maybe even bleeding. Not a touch attack, you have to touch the wound, so a regular attack roll.

[Psyren]

'Fun' and 'Funny' are subjective. You're not enjoying yourself, but others are. {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

You and others are more than welcome to have fun homebrewing custom spells, but this isn't the forum for it.

[theMycon]

Prestidigitation cannot deal damage.

Prestidigitation cannot emulate spells.

There is no 'interpretation' here. Prestidigitation cannot be used to kill. Ever. At all.

Thank you.


The spell name literally means "sleight of hand." Everything about the spells makes it obvious it was intended to be "parlor tricks." And, moreover, 90% of what is in this thread, even if it were doable, are more "masochism in waiting" than abuse. Abusing a spell usually means it has to help you.

"Hi DM! I'm going to use a cantrip as an all-purpose, no-save, instant shut-down/kill. What, you're going to allow it? Wait, what do you mean that coatrack had a termite/sorc 1 inside of it? Oh, sh..."

[Kaeso]

By the RAW prestidigation can spatially influence anything that weighs less than a pound...
This could mean that a wizard with prestidigation could split atoms and cause a nuclear explosion :smallbiggrin:
:vaarsuvius: and that would be wrong

[Ravens_cry]

By the RAW prestidigation can spatially influence anything that weighs less than a pound...
This could mean that a wizard with prestidigation could split atoms and cause a nuclear explosion :smallbiggrin:
:vaarsuvius: and that would be wrong
RAW and physics.
They do not end well. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2013195&postcount=89)
Actually they end things very well, thank you.

[mootoall]

Hmm, "Creative uses of Prestidigitation" might be a better name for this thread. Now, for a contribution: Since you have line of sight and effect, you could use prestidigitation to "clean" the water from an opponent's eyeballs!

[Mikeavelli]

This is one of those topics that's amusing the first time you hear it, but quickly becomes tiresome. I remember laughing at it once, but now whenever someone suggests something along these lines, I just want to throw the dmg at them.

Similarly, that osmium thing needs to die.

[Zeta Kai]

Similarly, that osmium thing needs to die.

That's funny, I thought that it did. Don't tell that it's corpse is still shambling about somewhere in the internet.

Also, why don't we all speculate on all the wacky hijinx that can be achieved with a spell that can actually do something, like say, glitterdust or grease. Now those are spells with some wicked potential.

[DeckOneBell]

Create a brittle porcelain object a few feet off the ground in an alley near the guards you need to sneak past. Remotely ignite a tindertwig laid out near lamp oil and paper to set fire to a building you want to discretely destroy. Make the food served to the easily offended diplomat taste like it went bad. The effects of Prestidigitation are wanting, but are versatile enough that the consequences of those effects can be substantial.

You know, this post was pretty cool and interesting without any RAI attempted shenanigans.

I mean, okay, you can use silent image to create something in front of a creature's face, thus blinding him, but attempting to stretch the definition of spells just leads to more stupidity.

But about prestidigitation, I've always found magic tricks with the peasants to be amusing. Some perform skill business and some money in the pocket is a very flavorful way to create a street magician.

[Hanuman]

You forgot the funny part. There's simply nothing funny about using a false premise to propose an impossibility that a game's arbiter wouldn't allow even if it were possible. You asked if it could be done, & you're answer is No. It didn't require much exercise to reach that conclusion, & no humor was derived from doing so.

'Fun' and 'Funny' are subjective. You're not enjoying yourself, but others are. {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
Tainted is correct in the most literal and simplified sense, Zeta is correct on a pragmatic and common sense basis. I'm sure he acknowledges that there is a fun and funniness to almost anything, but as generally 15-45 year olds or whatever the demograph is, for a "good" DM to cater to this sort of thing is kinda proving that DMing is basically like looking after children, as it's generally considered childish and frustrating to deal with the gaming equivalent of "You said I couldn't have a chocolate, but you didn't say I couldn't have 5! *chuckles, amused*


By the RAW prestidigation can spatially influence anything that weighs less than a pound...
This could mean that a wizard with prestidigation could split atoms and cause a nuclear explosion :smallbiggrin:
:vaarsuvius: and that would be wrong
Yes, you are wrong.


But about prestidigitation, I've always found magic tricks with the peasants to be amusing. Some perform skill business and some money in the pocket is a very flavorful way to create a street magician.
You should see what you can do with 20 into slight of hand, like steal an attended non-held object, such as a spell component pouch.

[Maryring]

Prestidigitation cannot deal damage.

Prestidigitation cannot emulate spells.

There is no 'interpretation' here. Prestidigitation cannot be used to kill. Ever. At all.
Correction. Prestidigitation can be used to kill by changing the colour of a sheet of paper/parchment to the same colour as the writing of the text, thus obscuring the "here be dragons" warning on the sign. :smalltongue:

[Hanuman]

Correction. Prestidigitation can be used to kill by changing the colour of a sheet of paper/parchment to the same colour as the writing of the text, thus obscuring the "here be dragons" warning on the sign. :smalltongue:
I'm pretty sure RAW deals with mechanical and not contextual.

[Callista]

You want to utterly embarrass someone?

Use Prestidigitation to unravel all the stitching in their clothing. Then use it to stitch the clothing back up--without the thread. When the spell wears off... :smalleek:

So, Emperor, how d'ya like those new clothes?

Can also be used as a creative assassination method. Use it on armor; then dispel it secretly from the sidelines of a battle.

[yldenfrei]

You want to utterly embarrass someone?

Use Prestidigitation to unravel all the stitching in their clothing. Then use it to stitch the clothing back up--without the thread. When the spell wears off... :smalleek:

So, Emperor, how d'ya like those new clothes?

Can also be used as a creative assassination method. Use it on armor; then dispel it secretly from the sidelines of a battle.

That could work. If the emperor takes less than an hour to dress up before getting out in public, that is. Same goes with the armor.

1 hour duration only. :smallbiggrin:

[FelixG]

can also infuriate a blackguard.

Imagine how pissed he will be when his awesome intimidating black armor is turned neon pink

[Pink]

That could work. If the emperor takes less than an hour to dress up before getting out in public, that is. Same goes with the armor.

1 hour duration only. :smallbiggrin:

Extend/Persist :P

Similar but not quite prestidigitation, a Player of mine used Mage hand to bring sheets with explosive runes on them up close to enemy faces. Worked until they fought barbarians.

[Otacon17]

Prestidigitation cannot deal damage.

Prestidigitation cannot emulate spells.

There is no 'interpretation' here. Prestidigitation cannot be used to kill. Ever. At all.

I've seen it used to kill (indirectly, at least).

The party had just been captured by guards. These guards were searching through the party's stuff, and one of them came across what we'd been calling "Modnar's Very Nice Flagon." It was a small, enchanted flagon that could safely hold any substance, no matter how dangerous. Currently, it was holding some very dangerous, corrosive acid. Using Prestidigitation, the party wizard made the flagon smell strongly of alcohol. The thirsty guard tried to take a drink and wound up losing his lower jaw...

[Cerlis]

Well you cant clean any blood out of someone because the blood is a part of them, so using presto on their blood would be the equivelant of being a exterior kidney for them. Congrats, they wont have to pee till an hour later.

Now trying to clense it as in Clense the air, it would effect a creature so warrent a save, further it wouldnt be able to clense much, and you couldnt clean their "blood" out of the area since you dont have line of effect to it or line of sight. It would be equivical to saying "Ok i'll target the building with disentigrate" "Ok is an object roll damage, no save" "Well actually i'm targeting the furniture in the building, wont that be funny?" "no"

Isnt the range "touch"?From my understanding of the spell, any created objects appear in the hand or so, the only "far" affect is the lame-hand version (so you cant alter someones color from 20 feet away) and anything summoned would be near you. so you could summon a ball in someones open mouth, if you timed it right, and you'd have to be right next to them in their space. Might as well just clap your hand over their mouth.

oh and as for the heart thing, that same sentance says "non-living material" so no living hearts.and most other advanced effects say object. I find one of the best way to interpret any rule is to try to think of what the developer intended. I think the obvious intent was that this magic is so weak that though it can affect people, it is so weak that the mere precense of a creatures mind, soul, willpower (or whatever it is that allows a save) disassembles the weak intricate magic. So you could try to kill someone with such weak magic, its just the equivelant of trying to kill someone with a wet noodle. The noodle is cool and useful for stuff, but its to week to hurt anyone.

and i just have to say, as for fun....if we are going to be pedantic and completely literal some people think its fun to do <censored> and <nightmare fuel> to <Poor people omg>. So that argument holds no sway over me at all.
--------------

Now i love presto, it is the designers obvious attempt to allow someone to do anything slightly magical and fun that is harmless. its not"weak spell that you have to figure out how to use offensively" . its "Lets let them do anything with this as long as it cant influence combat". So there are many In the rule ways to have fun.

Making a guard stink or wet himself so he has to go change his cloths.
Embarrass someone in a miriad of ways.
Summon a lump of random material to throw it at the party warlock who is a jerk and you want to spite him.
Brush your teeth and avoid being dirty at all for the rest of your life.
Charm children and the locals with your cool tricks.
I love the bringing a dead flower back to "life" temporarily bit
......
...Though i also like the idea of summoning a rubber ball and throwing it at a warlocks head.

[Hanuman]

Extend/Persist :P

Similar but not quite prestidigitation, a Player of mine used Mage hand to bring sheets with explosive runes on them up close to enemy faces. Worked until they fought barbarians.

Metamagic + Cantrip

Uh?

[dgnslyr]

Don't some of the most ridiculous metamagic abuses involve using cantrips? Specifically, Sonic Snap?

[HunterOfJello]

Metamagic + Cantrip

Uh?

Sure, why not put a metamagic on a cantrip every once in a while? Especially the +0 cantrips like Invisible Spell or Energy Substitution if you're playing a Sorcerer.


Actually, you could pull off some interesting shenanigans if you use Born of The Three Thunders along with Energy Substitution (Electricity) to make one of the damaging cantrips able to Stun an opponent and possibly knock them Prone. The save DCs would be low since you're using a low level spell, but it is possible to succeed.


Don't some of the most ridiculous metamagic abuses involve using cantrips? Specifically, Sonic Snap?

Oh, yeah, good idea. If you did this with Sonic Snap then you wouldn't have to roll for a touch attack and there's a chance they would be deafened too.

That makes a 0th level spell that forces a will save for Deafened, fort save for stunned and if they're stunned, a reflex save for prone. The only cost is a 0 level spell slot and being dazed the next round.

[senrath]

Oh, yeah, good idea. If you did this with Sonic Snap then you wouldn't have to roll for a touch attack and there's a chance they would be deafened too.

That makes a 0th level spell that forces a will save for Deafened, fort save for stunned and if they're stunned, a reflex save for prone. The only cost is a 0 level spell slot and being dazed the next round.

Generally it's Fell Drain that gets combined with Sonic Snap, for obvious reasons.

[Morithias]

you can kill with prestigitation. You just have to kill INDIRECTLY. Tieing someone's shoelaces together? That won't kill them.

Tieing someone's shoelaces together, when they're about to step down 10 story tower stairs and therefore fall and REALLY hurt themselves. That's how it works.

You can kill with prestigitation.

The same way you can kill a person with your bare hands if you know what you're doing.

[HunterOfJello]

Generally it's Fell Drain that gets combined with Sonic Snap, for obvious reasons.

Ah, that would be pretty useful in a 1st level spell slot if you got Fell Drain and a metamagic reducer. (or stacked reducers)

[Fitz10019]

The Bulette description says they refuse to eat elves. I once jokingly suggested to a DM that my halfling's Ruathar level might deter the monster from eating him. I wonder if you can use prestidigitation to sprinkle yourself with elf-flavoring.

Can you use prestidigitation to make flavor that you've never tasted? Is magic all-knowing?

[Psyren]

Can you use prestidigitation to make flavor that you've never tasted? Is magic all-knowing?

I would imagine it's not; just as trying to make a Magic Mouth speak a language you don't know results in gibberish, getting a Prestidigitation to use a flavor you don't know results in chicken.

[Hyfigh]

I would imagine it's not; just as trying to make a Magic Mouth speak a language you don't know results in gibberish, getting a Prestidigitation to use a flavor you don't know results in chicken.

Mmm... chicken.

[Psyren]

Mmm... chicken.

I can't be the only one who read that in Homer Simpson's voice.

[Ravens_cry]

I can't be the only one who read that in Homer Simpson's voice.
I can assure you, you were not. I even added the little *gargling drool* sound he makes.

[Togo]

I used to use prestidigitation to clear up holy water that had missed its target, and put it back in the bottle. Makes it actually worthwhile to use the stuff, when too often it gets ignored...

My favourite use was to make a wall bearing a symbol so dirty the symbol could no longer be seen.

[fulong]

Sure, why not put a metamagic on a cantrip every once in a while? Especially the +0 cantrips like Invisible Spell or Energy Substitution if you're playing a Sorcerer.


Actually, you could pull off some interesting shenanigans if you use Born of The Three Thunders along with Energy Substitution (Electricity) to make one of the damaging cantrips able to Stun an opponent and possibly knock them Prone. The save DCs would be low since you're using a low level spell, but it is possible to succeed.



Oh, yeah, good idea. If you did this with Sonic Snap then you wouldn't have to roll for a touch attack and there's a chance they would be deafened too.

That makes a 0th level spell that forces a will save for Deafened, fort save for stunned and if they're stunned, a reflex save for prone. The only cost is a 0 level spell slot and being dazed the next round.

that would be even more awesome if you put in Fell drain

[Captain Kidd]

One of my current players, thankfully with a different DM so I didn't have to make the call, used it to dye the fluid in a spellcaster's eyes. He argued that the spellcaster's concentration was not affected; the fact that he was now blind merely royally screwed up his ability to pull off a touch attack for the spell.

Thankfully he's a barbarian in my game, but I know he's going to talk the bard or sorcerer into doing it at some point. I'll probably allow it, even though it copies blindness/deafness ... as long as it doesn't become a standard action at the start of every combat.

[Ravens_cry]

I cast Light on a mooks eyes and tried arguing he was now blind.
Didn't work.