Belkar's afterlife [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Keinnicht

2010-12-13, 01:17 AM

Inspired by the Miko's afterlife thread. I actually think this is a very interesting question involving alignment's effects on afterlife in D&D.

The Deceased: Belkar Bitterleaf, Chaotic Evil.

The Evidence:

Belkar has committed an uncountable number of evil acts, both on and off screen. He's sadistic and unpleasant. Yet, strangely, he's acting in the service of good. All of his allies are good, with one possible exception (V.) He's acting to save the world, and has certainly assisted his good teammates on many occasions.

The question is: Where does Belkar go when he dies? By the RAW, he'd presumably end up as a petitioner in the Abyss. Personally, however, I can easily see the good-aligned deities stepping in to at least prevent his infinite torment. While it's pretty unlikely they'd let him into one of the good afterlives, it seems like a fair possibility he'd be moved to a neutral plane. Quite possibly Acheron, which is probably Belkar's idea of heaven anyways.

Lord_Gareth

2010-12-13, 01:19 AM

I doubt it. Note that the gods have no sway as to if Roy got into Celestia or not; as such, Belkar would get kicked into the Abyss and end up as a Mane like every other sucker that was evil but not effective at his job.

Tyndmyr

2010-12-13, 03:10 AM

Given the larger service to good thing, he might actually end up getting sorted into chaotic neutral.

Which would probably annoy him incredibly.

martianmister

2010-12-13, 07:28 AM

In the deepest part of Chaotic Evil afterlife...

Eldan

2010-12-13, 07:36 AM

Acheron? Sounds like a nightmare to Belkar, really.

Being a rank-and-file soldier without distinguishing features for all eternity? Fighting senseless wars? (Wars, not personal combat, mind you.) Hell no.

Ysgard could make him happy, but he's too evil for it, really. So, I'd still say abyss. He can eternally slaughter things there, too.

Morquard

2010-12-13, 07:46 AM

Why would the good gods intervene on Belkar's behalf? Heck they nearly didn't let Roy into Celestia because of his assosiation with Belkar.

And what good deeds?

martinkou

2010-12-13, 09:02 AM

He can probably go to Shendilavri in the Abyss - the plane of succubus, one of the most beautiful (if not the most) planes in the Abyss. He can just beat people up, steal their money, and woo the succubi demons there. He's gonna enjoy the Abyss so much there he won't ever come back.

Chaos rising

2010-12-13, 09:57 AM

Anyone ever read 8-bit theatre...

The Succubus

2010-12-13, 05:19 PM

Orzel

2010-12-13, 05:52 PM

Maybe Cathrys, the second layer of Carceri.
Belkar functions much like an animal and literally lies to reality.

Then he breaks out the prison plane like the awesome halfing he is.

Eldan

2010-12-13, 06:03 PM

By killing everyone. Which is a legitimate approach.

TheBlackShadow

2010-12-13, 06:23 PM

I'd say the Abyss, or perhaps Carceri. Maybe Pandemonium, if he's lucky. Getting as far up as Limbo would be some sort of miracle.

Half-Orc Rage

2010-12-13, 06:25 PM

Depends, Belkar has shown character growth and might redeem himself before he dies. Unintentionally, probably, but it still counts.

martianmister

2010-12-13, 06:25 PM

I think he will go to somewhere he doesn't want to stay...

Trazoi

2010-12-13, 06:37 PM

It depends if the Powers That Be wish to truly punish Belkar or "reward" him with an afterlife he would actually enjoy. I don't know a lot about the D&D planes, but if Belkar ends up in one of the endless battles there it would be his idea of heaven. On the other hand, if he annoys some greater power he could get dumped into some empty room all alone for all eternity, which IMO for someone who craves stimulus as much as Belkar would be his ultimate hell.

Eldan

2010-12-13, 06:45 PM

Hehe. Too bad he can't go to Ooze, really. It would be the perfect punishment for him, then.

Maybe Elysium? To reach your destination, you have to do random good acts along the way, or you never get anywhere. Also, it's absolutely lovey-dovey perfect.

Kish

2010-12-13, 07:09 PM

He will sacrifice himself to save the one entity other than himself he ever truly cared about, Mr. Scruffy. And he will go to Limbo, to his own horror and outrage. The last we will see of Belkar will be a shriek, "WHAT? I've been Evil all my life!"

Eldan

2010-12-13, 07:11 PM

I'm not sure, but wasn't Limbo based on Wisdom? I.e. you could create whatever you dreamed of, as long as you had enough wisdom to hold it together?

Because that would be hilarious for Belkar.

Keinnicht

2010-12-13, 08:12 PM

I'd say the Abyss, or perhaps Carceri. Maybe Pandemonium, if he's lucky. Getting as far up as Limbo would be some sort of miracle.

I can see him getting along with Erythnul pretty well. Although OoTS doesn't use the Greyhawk pantheon, it seems pretty likely there's some similarly unpleasant deity who lives in Pandemonium.

I'm not sure, but wasn't Limbo based on Wisdom? I.e. you could create whatever you dreamed of, as long as you had enough wisdom to hold it together?

Because that would be hilarious for Belkar.

That would be a fitting punishment, really. Not only the insult of not being deemed ebil enough, but also to have to exist in a plane where he could be god if he was just a little wiser.

Spirited Charge

2010-12-13, 11:24 PM

I'm not sure, but wasn't Limbo based on Wisdom? I.e. you could create whatever you dreamed of, as long as you had enough wisdom to hold it together?

Because that would be hilarious for Belkar.

Ah, that sounds like an awesome plot twist; that combined with the idea of him sacrificing himself for Mr. Scruffy. It'd be disappointing, though, if he went out with a huge climatic scene but didn't get any of the enlightening background information that many of our other PCs have received.

Raging Gene Ray

2010-12-13, 11:38 PM

That would be a fitting punishment, really. Not only the insult of not being deemed ebil enough, but also to have to exist in a plane where he could be god if he was just a little wiser.

The best punishment for Belkar would be eternal isolation. His reasons for being Evil are to show everyone else what a badass he is, whether they're gazing in admiration or screaming in terror.

Oh, and his own ass becomes sentient and attacks him. For some reason.

:belkar: :smalleek: I'M ALL ALONE FOREVER AND MY ASS ATE MY HAND!
Belkar's Ass: 'Twas delicious, mate.

WeLoveFireballs

2010-12-13, 11:48 PM

ArlEammon

2010-12-13, 11:51 PM

However we are not even sure he will die. Simply that he will draw his last breath. 1 guess is that he will become an undead minion of Xykon. The only thing stopping him from turning to evil entirely is Mr.Scruffy, who, by virtue of being awesome when thrown on someone's face and the threat of being honey glazed has saved him from being truely irredemmable.

If he does die then he will go to the abyss or to a neutural afterlife and be pissed if he is.

A most fitting punishment would be for Belkar to end up in ARCADIA, with all the stuff-nosed snobs who think they know everything live. Belkar would just be ignored there forever and be forced to endure not being able to kill anything.

And, it would also be a reward if he redeemed himself. So it would balance out.

M.A.D

2010-12-13, 11:54 PM

Shendilavri sounds pretty good for anyone who'd wish him a happy ending, which is almost no one at all

blazingshadow

2010-12-14, 01:43 AM

the first 2 layers of carceri look like the perfect place for belkar if he is rewarded for his evil. i don't see him going to the abyss unless he gets involved in killing the fiends that tempted V and getting enough recognition to rule his own layer because of his contribution to the continuation of the blood war

Tvtyrant

2010-12-14, 02:05 AM

Why would the abyss be a punishment for him? I think he would enjoy it.

The Pilgrim

2010-12-14, 07:25 AM

Is someplace there deeper than Abbyss?

If not, someone should build one, just for him.

factotum

2010-12-14, 07:55 AM

Given the larger service to good thing, he might actually end up getting sorted into chaotic neutral.

I don't see it. The deva who judged Roy's case was close to kicking him down to Neutral Good purely for his mistake in leaving Elan behind, despite all the good he'd otherwise done; the tiny amount of good Belkar has done doesn't outweigh the kilonazis of evil!

Burner28

2010-12-14, 08:12 AM

I don't see it. The deva who judged Roy's case was close to kicking him down to Neutral Good purely for his mistake in leaving Elan behind, despite all the good he'd otherwise done; the tiny amount of good Belkar has done doesn't outweigh the kilonazis of evil!

Correction, True Neutral, not Neutral good

Zmflavius

2010-12-14, 12:35 PM

Is someplace there deeper than Abbyss?

If not, someone should build one, just for him.

I thought the Abyss was infinitely deep?

factotum

2010-12-14, 12:52 PM

Correction, True Neutral, not Neutral good

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html

Neutral Good, not True Neutral.

Zmflavius

2010-12-14, 01:29 PM

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html

Neutral Good, not True Neutral.

True Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html), and Neutral Good later.

JonestheSpy

2010-12-14, 01:41 PM

Why would the abyss be a punishment for him? I think he would enjoy it.

Because there are vastly more powerful, meaner, and more dangerous things than Belkar all over it that would enjoy tormenting him, that's why. Same goes for all the Lower Planes - the idea that going there is a "reward" for evil is ludicrous, imho.

No, where Belkar would actually be happy is Ysgard - fight all day, party all night, wake up and do it again, ad infinitum. And considering it's for chaotics in between the neutral/good spectrum, he just might get there if his character progression continues in such a manner.