Good RPGs for DS

[true_shinken]

So, I'm almost wrapping up Final Fantasy IV and I need a new RPG for my DS. I can't seem to find Golden Sun Dark Dawn in any stores here - it's all sold out.
Any suggestions for a game I could try while I can't put my hands on Golden Sun?

[Zevox]

Don't have time for my usual long list (have to get to work fast here), so here are just my top two recommendations:

The World Ends With You. One of Square-Enix's best games ever (much better than any Final Fantasy games I've ever played), this is a very unique RPG, both in terms of story and combat. Combat actually occurs on both screens at once, though you can have the AI handle half of it if you don't have the multitasking skills to fight two battles simultaneously. The combat also makes great use of the touch screen, a rarity in DS RPGs to say the least. The story I can't really say much about without giving out spoilers, so I'll just say it's very original and quite good. It's frankly one of the best games on the DS, and I'd highly recommend it.

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor. Also one of the DS's best games, on par with the above. Combat is a fusion of tactical RPG and traditional turn-based RPG mechanics, using teams of demons lead by humans. The story, which is basically based on a demonic invasion of a section of Tokyo, is very well-written, features a number of fascinating ideas (such as the Death Clock - a number you will see above peoples' heads telling you how many days they have left to live), and has multiple endings which, the obvious bad choice aside, you may well have difficulty choosing between.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Dragon Quest IX. I've logged well over 200 hours on it. There's also remakes of some of the older DQs out there, I think IV-VI if I remember correctly. DQV is responsible for this Lucky Star clip. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M9gTjmtil4)

[Sipex]

The good news is there are a lot of DS rpgs.

The bad news is there are A LOT of DS rpgs.

- Mario & Luigi RPG: Partner's in Time
Built similar to mario RPG games, you press a button mid attack (or buttons) to do more damage, etc. Very unique. This is the 2nd in the series with the 1st being on game boy advance.

- Mario & Luigi RPG: Bowser's Inside Story
Third in line of the gameboy mario & luigi rpg games. Very fun and interactive. You don't need to play the 2nd to understand what is going on as they are seperate games.

- Chrono Trigger
It's chrono trigger, nearly identical to the classic version except there's some extra (kind of meh) content

- Dragon Quest 9
Classic turn based RPG, very well told story. Immersive but nothing very innovative (except post game content). If you liked any other DQ game this will be fun. If you've never played one this is probably the best to start with (either that or Dragon Quest 8). Used to be called Dragon Warrior.

- Dragon Quest 4 and 5
Two seperate games remastered and created for the DS. Good if you like DQ games.

[Drascin]

To you, I pose a question: Do you like dungeon crawling?

If so, get Etrian Odyssey. Like, yesterday. A beautiful old-school game with full party customization, a deep system, a challenging difficulty curve, and a wonderful, wonderful sense of exploration that is greatly helped by you having to draw your maps yourself. You will get attached to your party as you go through the horrible deathtraps of the Labyrinth, I guarantee it.

All three are good, but they're not sequential and the third (The Drowned City) is probably the best one, so you can get that one directly - though you may not appreciate how much it broke from the usual "Euromedieval fantasy" feel in its classes without the background from the others. Two (Heroes of Lagaard) is also awesome - classic in every sense. One is a bit rough in spots and a few points are kind of broken.

Other good suggestions are Bowser's Inside Story, which may well be the funniest RPG ever, FFCC: Echoes of Time if you're feeling like some RPG multiplaying, FF Tactics A2 if you want some aweome grid-based gameplay and don't care that the story is plain bad, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor for a game with great, relatable characters and classic SMT demon-summoning...

...and Knights in the Nightmare if you want to try one of the coolest, but weirdest, densest (god, the tutorial), and most twitch-based RPGs ever.

[true_shinken]

Oh, man, now I'm gonna have to buy lots of games...
So, Etrian Odyssey and Dragon Quest 9 seem interesting. I might try Devil Survivor, if I find it (I've been trying to find it for a long time).

I heard about a Eye of the Beholder remake. Is it any good? I'd like to try it.

The combat system of The World Ends With You felt... boring. I might give it a try if a friend borrows me the game, but definitely not something I'd buy.

[Inhuman Bot]

The combat system of The World Ends With You felt... boring. I might give it a try if a friend borrows me the game, but definitely not something I'd buy.

I don't understand how anyone could feel this way. :psyduck:

[Zevox]

I'd recommend Dragon Quest 5 over 9. 9 was a decent entry in the series, but 5 is one of the best in my opinion. Though 4 and 9 are still plenty worth getting if you like the series.

I'll also second the recommendations of Bowser's Inside Story and Chrono Trigger. Very good games.

Other recommendations:
- Disgaea DS. An excellent tactical RPG with a lot of humor and a great cast of characters, plus a fairly good story to boot. And for post-game content, if you like grinding, this game series facilitates it pretty much literally infinitely. The maximum level is 9,999, and you only need to get to 70 or so to beat the main story, yet there are still challenges worth fighting even at the maximum level. Oh, but that maximum level doesn't mean you can't keep grinding - the game lets you reincarnate your characters at level 1 with a stat boost based on how powerful they were before reincarnation. There is a maximum your stats can hit, or so GameFAQs tells me, but good luck getting there.
- Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, but only if you're a Sonic fan. It's not one of the best games on the system, but it is one of Sonic's best games since Adventure 2.
- Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, but only if you're already a Fire Emblem fan. It's not one of the series' high points, but still good enough to pick up for fans. If you haven't played Fire Emblem before though, the GBA game (seventh in the series, no subtitle outside Japan) is the best place to start.

Zevox

[dgnslyr]

I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet, but POKEMON. Sure, it may be oriented towards kids, and it may seem incredibly easy at times, but it's incredibly fun nonetheless. Also, it's renowned for multiplayer. There's a good reason why there's a very active thread on Pokemon on these very forums.

[Lord Seth]

The Mario & Luigi games as well as The World Ends With You.

[Drascin]

Oh, man, now I'm gonna have to buy lots of games...
So, Etrian Odyssey and Dragon Quest 9 seem interesting. I might try Devil Survivor, if I find it (I've been trying to find it for a long time).


Good choices.

Friendly tip: people will tell you Etrian is horrifyingly hard. It really isn't. It's just that it works in a different paradigm than most recent RPGs and it takes a bit to get accustomed to. Being prudent, making a team that cooperates well, and taking your time is really important in EO, and if you do you won't have many problems. If you try to play Rambo, though, you will be eaten by a FOE :smallwink:.

As I usually say when people call bull****, "Etrian Odyssey doesn't bull**** you. It's, in fact, incredibly honest. It's just you're badly accustomed. When other games tell you "this is an extremely dangerous foe, get away!", they're just psyching you up for a slightly harder boss fight. When EO tells you that, it's being completely honest. Consider running" (you will be doing a fair bit of running in this game. Less in EO3, which had its FOEs a bit defanged, but still, you learn to appreciate the Escape option in the menu)

[T.G. Oskar]

Statement: The Dark Spire is unforgivingly harder than Etrian Odyssey.

How? Well, let's start on why Etrian isn't so hard. Usually, the game prizes you for starting with at least a healer and a tank (hence, you'll usually see Protector and Medic as two of the required classes; in the newer version, it's probably Phalanx and Monk). Then, you NEED a Troubadour with you: their buffs are just brutally good and they actually grant you bonus XP (I'd believe the Prince or the Shepherd in the third game would be rough equivalents). The other two are your choice.

What's unforgivingly hard about Etrian Odyssey is the FOEs. Yes, Drascin is right: if you go and make a party without thinking, the first FOE will punish you. HARD. Like, TPK hard. However, a well-planned party not only makes the first FOE easy, it makes the entire game easy (just not ridiculously easy). EO1 is the shining example of this, being the first game and thus the one with the strongest moves: a Medic had a buff that protected you from all damage for 5 turns (the top reduced damage to about 10% of maximum), the Troubadour had a song which slowly restores TP (which means you can have no TP problems), and for the last few hard bosses the Protector is just uber-powerful (there's a boss which is unforgivingly hard even with level 60-something characters: a properly prepared Protector reduces that to just "mere nuisance", by entirely blocking moves that for all means are death sentences.

EO2 removes and shifts some of the abilities, so the Medic loses its uber-defense buff and Troubadours lose their awesome TP-recovery skill, but they still have some good stuff. Protectors are slightly buffed, Ronin are still out-right brutal (Glass Cannons, but you don't care when you use Midareba, right?), and the new classes have some skills that are just interesting to use.

Can't say much about EO3, though.

Now, what does The Dark Spire has in terms of difficulty that Etrian Odyssey's three incarnations don't? While Etrian Odyssey is a new twist on old-school dungeon crawling RPGs, The Dark Spire is a reimagining of the old ones. "Reimagining" in this sense meaning that only few things change; otherwise, it's unforgivingly similar to the old Wizardry and Might & Magic games. You'll see because, while Etrian Odyssey has the more modern TP system and allows all classes to have their own skills (thus acting a bit of a blend between WRPG and JRPG), The Dark Spire retains most of the old charm.

"Old Charm", of course, being: Fighters being like AD&D fighters (huge HP, ability to use nearly all weapons and armor, but they only "hit hard" and that's it); Thieves being your classic AD&D thieves (low attack abilities, slightly lower HP, trap-disarming); Priests and Magicians being your classic AD&D Cleric and Magic-Users (low HP, Clerics using heavier armor while Magic-Users use none, Vancian spellcasting). What Wizardry does is allowing you to change your class and do some sort of "dual-classing" except you don't really do dual-classing, and The Dark Spire retains some of that: you can take levels in all four classes, but you retain your limits based on the restrictions of the other classes.

However, one of the big changes is that XP is not just for levels, unlike in Wizardry and Might & Magic. In the game, you can buy some skills (which may or may not be useful VERY later on), some of those being prerequisites for what really separates The Dark Spire from both old-school dungeon crawling RPGs and AD&D; the "Prestige Class" skills.

In Wizardry, if you met certain requirements, you could change into a newer, more advanced class; these were Bishop/Wizard (basically a Mystic Theurge or Red Mage, basically a Priest/Mage), Samurai (actually a Fighter/Mage), Lord (basically a Paladin, or a Fighter/Priest but really more like a Paladin), and Ninja (basically a Fighter/Thief that fights better without weapons or armor, a la 3.5 Monk). The Dark Spire, instead, allows you to get a few unique "Prestige Class" skills that blend the abilities of two classes, and use some of the Wizardry conventions. For example: the Paladin is your archetypal Fighter/Priest which allows you to use Priest spells in combat while simultaneously progressing Fighter hits and HP with Priest spellcasting; Ranger blends the ability to use Thief and Priest armor and weapons, the Thief's lockpicking and disarming skills and the Priest's spellcasting. Each of these has a special unique benefit to it: for example, Paladins get more AC when using a shield, and Rangers...well, I don't remember what Rangers get but it's meant to be good.

Now, this may seem a bit odd, but if you heard it well (no special techniques - well, you get a few but they are more like combat maneuvers in D&D; Vancian spellcasting), you can figure out that you REALLY need a good group or else you can get beaten. And, unlike in Etrian Odyssey where most monsters are pretty easy and the leap in difficulty is not much barring fighting an FOE, The Dark Spire has brutal leaps in difficulty. For example: in the first floor, you face relatively normal creatures; the second stage, the creatures are slightly advanced. The third stage, though, has a rise in difficulty equivalent to traversing two dungeons. The basement has stronger monsters than that of the third floor, just in case. There are seven floors (plus basement and a secret room) total, and the difficulty in each floor increases exponentially. By the time you reach the fourth floor, if your Wizard isn't already doing area spells, your party is certainly killed; by fifth floor, your characters should be already having 5th or 6th level spells. By the time you reach sixth floor, the game expects you to have four characters that can cast spells, and at least two or three Arcane spellcasters (full blasters) or you won't survive the floor. Still haven't reached the Seventh Floor, but I already got 7th level spells; you need to unlock 8th level and 9th level spells, though, and that depends greatly on your character alignment.

So yeah; while you may not figure this out at first, those who know about dungeon crawler RPGs (not roguelikes, mind you) can figure that Etrian Odyssey is actually easy, if only because the difficulty spikes aren't so deep and the game doesn't expect you to know things beforehand (and actually expects you to level-grind). That's not like Wizardry, which the difference between the difficulties of monsters in each floor is doubly exponential, and you can easily suffer stuff like mass petrifaction and level drain in the fourth floor (out of, say, seven floors), alongside spells that unless you get the manual you have no idea of what they do. And not only it is hit-and-miss what you have to do, you also have no map.

So yeah: Etrian Odyssey is not ridiculously hard, and if you think of it as such, you haven't played dungeon crawling RPGs before (chances are you haven't). In that case, don't get The Dark Spire. If you find dungeon crawling RPGs to be interesting and find EO easy, then buy The Dark Spire. If you find The Dark Spire easy, then do me a favor and find an old copy of Wizardry; I know you'll love it ;)

As for other DS RPGs...well, you can always get Ragnarok Online DS; the story is incredibly corny and the NPC allies can be downright annoying, but the fact that you can customize your character (to an extent; always male unless you go to a certain place) and the game is almost a faithful representation of the MMO in terms of areas and monsters, as well as skills. It's also a system that likes using the stylus, so prepare for it.

As for the Eye of the Beholder remake...it's for the GBA IIRC, and uses 3.0 rules. However, it's strikingly limited (you can only use Fighter, Cleric, Rogue and Wizard; Clerics only get a handful of spells, Wizards roughly the same, not sure if Rogues get sneak attack, you can get feats) and you can't multiclass as you could do in the original, so it's a big change. YMMV.

[VanBuren]

1. Chrono Trigger

It's Chrono Trigger on a portable system. I don't think there need be another reason.

2. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story

Effort was put into polishing this one, and it shows.

3. Pokemon SoulSilver Version/HeartGold

With the possible exception of Black/White, which I have yet to play, these are perhaps the best iterations of the series to date. They are remakes yes, but they are the better for it, taking the best games of the original generation (well, Gen2, but still on the GB...GBC if you count Crystal) and giving it the best of the DS generations mechanics.

4. The World Ends With You

It's a piece of art, frankly. The gameplay is fun, and the presentation is pretty original. The story's pretty good too.

5. Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes

It's part puzzle-game, but don't let the lack of genre purity stop you.

[true_shinken]

- Disgaea DS. An excellent tactical RPG with a lot of humor and a great cast of characters, plus a fairly good story to boot.
I just can't get myself to like Disgae. Maybe it's too tongue in cheek for me. Dunno.


- Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, but only if you're a Sonic fan. It's not one of the best games on the system, but it is one of Sonic's best games since Adventure 2.
Wasn't aware this existed! Nice, very nice. If I can find, I'll be sure to buy it.


I'm surprised it hasn't been said yet, but POKEMON. Sure, it may be oriented towards kids, and it may seem incredibly easy at times, but it's incredibly fun nonetheless. Also, it's renowned for multiplayer. There's a good reason why there's a very active thread on Pokemon on these very forums.
I play pokemon only for the multiplayer. The single player game is so easy that it has ceased to amuse me.



As for other DS RPGs...well, you can always get Ragnarok Online DS; the story is incredibly corny and the NPC allies can be downright annoying, but the fact that you can customize your character (to an extent; always male unless you go to a certain place) and the game is almost a faithful representation of the MMO in terms of areas and monsters, as well as skills. It's also a system that likes using the stylus, so prepare for it.

Hm, I might give this a try. I'm also intrigued by Dark Spire. Is it the kind of game I'd probably find with a discount?

[Drascin]

@TG Oskar: Personally, I find Etrian very fun, and not that hard not counting some difficulty spikes (such as the discovery in 2 that you really should have got some Volt element before the Third Stratum boss, dude) but Dark Spire doesn't sound all that appealing as you explain it. As I said, Etrian is not so hard - it's just appropiately challenging and doesn't do you many favors, but it never goes "ha, gotcha!". Whenever you lose in Etrian, you know it was your fault - the game didn't bull**** you. Dark Spire, from what you say, seems to be more in the "HAHAHAHAHA YOU DIDN'T READ THE GUIDE YOU LOSER! DIE!" Sierra-like side of the spectrum - and trial and error gameplay you could never have predicted on your own is not all that amusing (nor a valid method of making things hard) to me. At least not in games where dying means you wasted a huge amount of time.

Sides, I like the customization and ability trees - the idea of going back to boring "whack whack whack" D&D fighters doesn't sound all that appealing to me in tabletop and it sure doesn't sound appealing in a videogame :smalltongue:. Personal preference.

[Ogremindes]

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey is another good DS RPG

[Deth Muncher]

Thirdening or fourthening Chrono Trigger. I have it, but haven't played it yet (I got most of the way done with an emulated copy, so I haven't mustered up the desire to go and do it again from the beginning).

Pokeymans is always a good way to go. Get Heart Gold or Soul Silver, preorder Black or White, and you're set.

Go for Final Fantasy III, perhaps? It's not the one with Terra and Locke, it's the ACTUAL FFIII, with the Onion Knight and junk.

Seconding FF:TA2. And possibly go back and get Final Fantasy Tactics: Advance if you've got a DS Lite or a GBA/SP.

Disgaea and Knights in the Knightmare have an odd learning curve, so if you want just good ol' RPG, give them a miss.

I'm going to say no to TWEWY. I have it. I've played through the first couple missions. The combat system is awkward, and it really only shines apparently when you have other friends with the game, so you can swap pins.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I think all the good games have been named, so I'll just double up on suggesting TWEWY, FFTA:2 and any pokermans game. The Disgaea sand Etrian Oddyssey I'll recommend with a caveat: they can get very grind and the difficulty curve at the start of these games is... wonky. Disgaea is absolutely hilarious though.



And I simply do not understand how TWEWY's combat can be called boring or awkward. It can be extremely hectic and (numbers-wise) complex. It is also fast, visceral, immersive and flat-out makes the best use of the DS's touchscreen I have seen to date.

[Wookieetank]

On the topic of TWEWY it does take a bit to get into. I thought it was novel at first, but not much else, and played it off and on rather sporadically until I made it through the first several missions. Then the game all of a sudden just clicked for me and I ended up playing it most every day for the better part of 3 and a half months. The game kinda sneaks up on you and once it's got you, you wonder why you ever thought it wasn't amazing. Also the ability to lower your character's current level to increase item drops and xp bonuses was rather fun. I think I ended up playing through most of the game at Level 1 just so I could get the better pins sooner :smallbiggrin:

[true_shinken]

OK, I got Dragon Quest IX last night. It's... it's... FANTASTIC.
Creating my own character with the Akira Toriyama design was awesome. Seeing him fly and discovering he was a guardian angel was even more awesome. Combat animations are awesome. I'm still waiting for the plot to pick up (I just rescued Patty) but the game grabbed be by my heart and it won't let go!

[Sipex]

Glad to hear :)

It just gets better from there. I really don't want to spoiler anything but if you like customisation you'll love the next parts.

[T.G. Oskar]

@TG Oskar: Personally, I find Etrian very fun, and not that hard not counting some difficulty spikes (such as the discovery in 2 that you really should have got some Volt element before the Third Stratum boss, dude) but Dark Spire doesn't sound all that appealing as you explain it. As I said, Etrian is not so hard - it's just appropiately challenging and doesn't do you many favors, but it never goes "ha, gotcha!". Whenever you lose in Etrian, you know it was your fault - the game didn't bull**** you. Dark Spire, from what you say, seems to be more in the "HAHAHAHAHA YOU DIDN'T READ THE GUIDE YOU LOSER! DIE!" Sierra-like side of the spectrum - and trial and error gameplay you could never have predicted on your own is not all that amusing (nor a valid method of making things hard) to me. At least not in games where dying means you wasted a huge amount of time.

Sides, I like the customization and ability trees - the idea of going back to boring "whack whack whack" D&D fighters doesn't sound all that appealing to me in tabletop and it sure doesn't sound appealing in a videogame :smalltongue:. Personal preference.

Well, The Dark Spire isn't as mind-bendingly hard as you may think, given that it gives you a few bones to chew. For example: the game gives you a map that completes on its own (unlike EO, where one of the charms is completing the map on your own and giving it your own quirks), and delivers the combat maneuvers I mentioned.

These need some clarification. Basically, on older games, you had the thing that all D&D fighters have: "I full attack the enemy". While this is to an extent true in The Dark Spire, the fighters (and to an extent the thieves) are spiced with certain techniques you can use during battle. For example: Precision Attack lowers the amount of attacks you can do but increases your chances of hitting; Lunge Attack reduces your AC for one turn but increases the chances to hit and the damage you deal (kinda like charging?); Swift Attack makes you deal less damage but makes your attack come first. Thieves only get the Swift Attack and Precision Attack maneuvers, while Fighters get access to all of them; these techniques, as well, change depending on the weapon you use. Thus, you can have a different technique by wielding a sword, an axe, a blunt weapon, a spear, or a crossbow. Mix that with the bonuses from the skill-based "PrCs" (for example, having the Paladin prefer spears to other weapons), and you get a very mild way of customization.

Another form of customization, of course, is choosing from six skill-based PrCs (or keep the original four classes, which progress faster) on a four-man party and determining your position (in a way). On the first, each combination of classes has some utility and each original class has the advantage of increased levels (since you need to level both classes to increase the actual level of skill-based "PrCs"), so you can tweak the group to your tastes, including the choice of races (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, and the semi-secret High Elf and Dark Elf races). Then there's the advent of races and the "Balanced" alignment and things can get a bit hectic. Positioning is rather simple actually: only enemies at front get hit, and you can decide whether you want one, two, or three people at front.

The best way to speak of The Dark Spire is: it's Guide Dang It (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/GuideDangIt/JapaneseRolePlayingGames), but less Nintendo Hard (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard) than real old-school dungeon crawling RPGs.


I think all the good games have been named, so I'll just double up on suggesting TWEWY, FFTA:2 and any pokermans game. The Disgaea sand Etrian Oddyssey I'll recommend with a caveat: they can get very grind and the difficulty curve at the start of these games is... wonky. Disgaea is absolutely hilarious though.

EO1 isn't that hard to grind with. There's two places where you can find two enemies (Treefrog and Immoa) where you can grind at your leisure since they have respawning abilities. You can face Immoa enough to take a character to level 70 (the maximum) twice in a few days (depending on your playstyle). Grindy, of course, but not as grindy as, say, an MMO.

[TinselCat]

I'm going to add my voice to the Chrono Trigger crowd. It was the absolute first game on my list when I got a DS (I hadn't played it for the original system). Multiple endings, a fun battle system and a great story. Plus time travel. I'm getting ready for another playthrough soon.

[true_shinken]

I'm going to add my voice to the Chrono Trigger crowd. It was the absolute first game on my list when I got a DS (I hadn't played it for the original system). Multiple endings, a fun battle system and a great story. Plus time travel. I'm getting ready for another playthrough soon.

I love Chrono Trigger, but I already have the SNES and PSOne versions (plus Chrono Cross). Did the DS version actually add anything of value? I mean, CT is a great game, but buying the same game three times is not exactly smart.

[Zevox]

I love Chrono Trigger, but I already have the SNES and PSOne versions (plus Chrono Cross). Did the DS version actually add anything of value? I mean, CT is a great game, but buying the same game three times is not exactly smart.
Not really. There were a couple of post-game additions, but they were rather... meh.

Zevox

[Ogremindes]

I love Chrono Trigger, but I already have the SNES and PSOne versions (plus Chrono Cross). Did the DS version actually add anything of value?

Portability?

[true_shinken]

Portability?
I don't think that's enough a reason to buy a game in which I've already done anything that could be done. Guess I won't buy CT DS after all.

[Gullara]

I would recommend Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced 2 *pants*

Quite a good game, fun combat, I can't remember the story :/. It was worth a hundred hours to me at least.

[Mirrinus]

Best DS RPG I've ever played was Tales of Innocence, but that was never officially released outside of Japan (the fan translation, on the other hand...). It's like they took the combat system from Tales of the Abyss, made it cooler, then crammed it into the DS system.

It also has Ange. I can't say no to Ange.

[Spinoza]

I much prefer action rpgs over anything turn based.

Phantasy Star 0

and

Dungeon Explorer


Those two could tide you over till Diablo III and Dungeon Siege III come out next year. (On PC)