[3.pf] Polymorph any Object abuse

[Halae]

I'm taking a look at the spell Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm) and I suddenly realized how ungodly powerful it is, capable of turning half-breeds into their more powerful counterpart permanently, if nothing else (and suddenly, your half-dragon buddy is no longer half...). And thus, 3 questions spring to mind.

1. Has this been errata-ed? It seems doubtful since it's essentially the same in Pathfinder

2. I'm guessing this works like other polymorph spells in that you keep your normal HD/Class Levels, but do you gain all the benefits from being the new form (Such as troll regen, or a dragons breath weapon)?

3. If it hasn't been errata-ed, then what kind of other abuses can we come up with?

[Koury]

Most common abuse is to cast it twice to make it permanent, I believe.

[WarKitty]

Polymorph spells have been errata'd in pathfinder so that they do not change your ability scores.

[Halae]

Most common abuse is to cast it twice to make it permanent, I believe.

Then that would work for other polymorph spells too, wouldn't it? transform into a balor or something, then polymorph any object to stay that way?

[Last Laugh]

IIRC polymorph has a duration based on Caster Level, PAO has a duration based on how close you are to the target. (cat-->dragon has a short duration, but dragon-->dragon has permanent duration... this seems fair)

Edit: oh, I understand what your mean now -.- Polymorph-->PAO

[Claudius Maximus]

I'm not familiar with Pathfinder but the 3.5 version is indeed one of the strongest spells in the game. It never did get nerfed.

[Urpriest]

Then that would work for other polymorph spells too, wouldn't it? transform into a balor or something, then polymorph any object to stay that way?

Maaybe...there's a very twisted RAW argument (worthy of Curmudgeon if you're familiar with his style) by which one argues that Polymorph does not actually change you into a creature for the purposes of PAO's duration chart because it says it turns you into "another form of living creature". PAO on the other hand says it is like Polymorph except that it "changes one...creature into another." This gets interpreted to mean that under PAO you actually count as the target creature for things like Prestige Classes, PAO duration, etc., while Polymorph doesn't go that far.

[WarrenZig]

I believe one of the arguments that has a point is how the transformation is based on the "Original" form and whether or not PAO changes your "Original" form.

[Incanur]

You can certainly permanently change humans into firbolg giants. You can pay around thousand gold to have an NPC cast this on you at four level or so. It helps balance monks!

[Runestar]

PAO, like polymorph uses the lower of your caster lv or the recipient's HD, to a cap of 15. So there is no way a 4th lv PC can be transformed into a planetar or whatever form with more than 4HD.

One trick is to use PAO to turn a wizard into a sarrukh for its 30 int.

[Incanur]

PAO, like polymorph uses the lower of your caster lv or the recipient's HD, to a cap of 15. So there is no way a 4th lv PC can be transformed into a planetar or whatever form with more than 4HD.

Unlikely. The examples given specifically refute this notion. Pebbles don't have any hit dice and manticores have more HD than shrews. A single 15th-level wizard with PAO can give power to the people like nobody's business. Want to be a giant with 36 Str? You're a giant with 36 Str! Now grab grab a pitchfork and come with me to depose the local lord. :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

PAO, like polymorph uses the lower of your caster lv or the recipient's HD, to a cap of 15. So there is no way a 4th lv PC can be transformed into a planetar or whatever form with more than 4HD.

One trick is to use PAO to turn a wizard into a sarrukh for its 30 int.

Except PaO has explicit examples of transformations that ignore that rule, involving turning things into other things that don't have HD at all (creature->object) or very much turning one creature into another with greater HD (shrew->Manticore.) It *might* obey the caster level limit, but that still doesn't stop you from transmuting an object to another object- say, turning the corpse of your Fighter friend into the corpse of a Firbolg or a dragon before you Raise him.

Edit: Ninja'd. Is not big surprise.

[Runestar]

So a wizard could PAO a 1-HD commoner into a fire giant? And he would be a fire giant with single-digit hp and +0bab? :smallconfused:

[fireinakasha]

1. Has this been errata-ed? It seems doubtful since it's essentially the same in Pathfinder

It is actually completely (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polymorph-any-object) different (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polymorph) in Pathfinder. There is a very limited list of abilities and special qualities/attacks that you can derive from your polymorphed form, determined by the spell and not the chosen form. Also, instead of giving you the ability scores of the creature, you get static ability bonuses, again chosen by the spell and not the form. Pathfinder polymorph is much, much less powerful.

All that said though, 3.5 polymorph any object is like one of the most abusable core spells there is.

Edit: Oh yeah, and in Pathfinder you can't polymorph into an aberration or outsider.

[Incanur]

So a wizard could PAO a 1-HD commoner into a fire giant? And he would be a fire giant with single-digit hp and +0bab? :smallconfused:

I believe so. It's a wonky spell in many respects. What I really wonder about is how many hit dice a pebble transformed into a fire giant has. 1 HD seems like the only balanced option but it's rather odd. But alternative interpretations make the table a joke or the spell even more overpowered.

[TheMeMan]

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems the one of the easiest ways to abuse it is through gaining obscene amounts of wealth with a single casting.

All you need to do is take a massive hunk of Copper, say 2 tons worth, and a single casting under the bonuses would turn it into a 2 ton hunk of gold or platinum permanently.

Granted this isn't very creative, but it's probably the most obvious and glaring abuse.

[fireinakasha]

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems the one of the easiest ways to abuse it is through gaining obscene amounts of wealth with a single casting.

All you need to do is take a massive hunk of Copper, say 2 tons worth, and a single casting under the bonuses would turn it into a 2 ton hunk of gold or platinum permanently.

Granted this isn't very creative, but it's probably the most obvious and glaring abuse.


This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine.

They're two steps ahead of you on that one :smallwink:

[Alleran]

One trick is to use PAO to turn a wizard into a sarrukh for its 30 int.
Ethergaunts are another option.