[3.5] CharOp: Help me smite/maul things better

[abadguy]

PreambleSo I'm starting (or restarting) a new RL campaign soon. This time round the DM is implementing starting wealth and point buy system based on Tier (the one by Dictum Mortum i think)

I got stuck with Big Stupid Fighter role, one which I'm not terribly good at.

We start ECL 4
Tier 5s get 34 pt buy and thrice WBL
Tier 4s get 32 pt buy and twice WBL
Tier 3s get 30 pt buy and WBL.

My three choices are Paladin (34 pt buy) or Totemist/Barb (30 pt buy) or Barb/Fighter- unarmed warrior (32 pt buy)

Questions:
What are some good races and/or racial templates combination for melee classes out there (max LA+1 in total)? And some good PrCs that make me blend better? I prefer large sized races or templates that make you large.

Almost all sources considered. So far I have short listed the following templates: Feral (Savage Species), Half Minotaur (Dragon 313 I think). Even dragonborn seems good. Not sure of any other good LA+1 races that I can tack on LA+0 templates as we can buy off LA right away with our starting wealth.

Also prefer not to have racial HD unless the monster offers really good features for a melee class.

Also riddle me this: how does having racial natural weapons make it easier playing a Totemist? Can he enchant his racial natural weapons with Totemist soulmelds?

[subject42]

If you can handle the fluff, Fist of the Forest is an absurdly good PRC for the unarmed barbarian//fighter.

[imperialspectre]

Tier system was done by JaronK; Dictum is awesome, but he didn't do this particular awesome thing.

3x WBL is pretty much absurd. For that, it's worth it to go straight up Paladin, as it's entirely possible to optimize Paladins very effectively (at least if your game only goes up to Tier 3 classes). Battle Blessing is a very good feat for mid levels; up to that point, smiteadin builds with Spirited Charge are very good for you. Ironically, you're generally better off going with a Small race for your character, as you can fit on a Medium-sized mount and therefore have a great deal more mobility.

You're not able to buy off LA with wealth by RAW. I'm not sure what the nature of your houserule on this subject is. If you go Totemist, Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) is absolutely fantastic - mental stats are basically dump stats for you, and it gives +4 Con to help with your main stat. Totemist is the only Tier 3 option worth considering, because you can use soulmelds to duplicate the effects of the magic items that the lower-tier classes will be buying like crazy.

[abadguy]

If a paladin is not focused so much on Smite Evil and mounted combat, what kind of feat tree should he then go for?



If you can handle the fluff, Fist of the Forest is an absurdly good PRC for the unarmed barbarian//fighter.

I know! Its awesome in a bucket. But its also one-trick pony-ness (instead of slash slash slash I go punch punch punch punch)

Do you have suggestions for Racial/template combinations?



Tier system was done by JaronK; Dictum is awesome, but he didn't do this particular awesome thing.

3x WBL is pretty much absurd. For that, it's worth it to go straight up Paladin, as it's entirely possible to optimize Paladins very effectively (at least if your game only goes up to Tier 3 classes). Battle Blessing is a very good feat for mid levels; up to that point, smiteadin builds with Spirited Charge are very good for you. Ironically, you're generally better off going with a Small race for your character, as you can fit on a Medium-sized mount and therefore have a great deal more mobility.

Oh yeah it was one of them who wrote it. Both are awesome.

Really? Optimise Paladins seem to be a misnomer. I was thinking of a Paladin/Crusader/RKV build ... which means no mount until much later and even then I would prefer the Dungeonscape ACF. I anticipate that Mounts don't do very well in the current campaign world unless they can fly.



You're not able to buy off LA with wealth by RAW. I'm not sure what the nature of your houserule on this subject is. If you go Totemist, Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) is absolutely fantastic - mental stats are basically dump stats for you, and it gives +4 Con to help with your main stat. Totemist is the only Tier 3 option worth considering, because you can use soulmelds to duplicate the effects of the magic items that the lower-tier classes will be buying like crazy.

Yeah I should have clarified that.

Tier 5s are given 34 pt buy and 20000 points to build the character.
Tier 4s are given 32 pt buy and 13000 points
Tier 3s are give 30 pt buy and 9000 points

These points serves as both GP and XP for buying off LA or equipment and purchasing class options as below. The guidelines are:

Non-PHB class - 2000
Non-PHB class attunement - 1000 (meaning I can enter a non-PHB clas later)
PrC Attunement - 2000 (meaning I can enter a PrC later)
Alternative Class Features - 1000 each
DMG/PHB Equipment - Cost as listed
Outside of DMG/PHB Equipment (including MiC and all other books - 2 x cost listed
Bonus Stat Point - 5000
Bonus Feat - 5000


So I am looking at at least a LA+1 race/template combination.

Thanks for the replies guys! More suggestions are helpful.

[Runestar]

Try dragonborn goliath barb. Good physical stats, and a few tricks so you aren't just a 1-trick pony.

And if your DM lets you buyoff the LA at lv4, all the better.

[tyckspoon]

That's kind of a weird setup, personally.. I'd probably just go straight Fighter, spend a few points on the Dungeoncrasher and maybe Zhentarim Fighter ACFs, take a template/race to make me Large.. and then laugh myself silly as I still had 2x the gear and better stats than the 'good' classes. Buyoff not really required, as good templates tend to be worth more than just 1 level for a BSF-type, but doable if you want.

If you want something a little more interesting, Goliath Barbarian (Mountain Rage racial sub level- would you have to pay for this as if it were an ACF?)/Totemist going into Totem Rager is a pretty good setup, but you'd be paying a lot of your 'wealth' for the privilege, and I can't say for sure if it'd actually be a good trade. You'd be giving yourself the 'reward' of lower starting stats, and then giving up basically all your gear on top of it (2000 splatclass, 2000 access to a PrC, 3000 LA buyoff, possibly 1000 'ACF'.. for all that, you'd almost certainly do better picking a more 'normal' tier 4 or 5 and making smart use of the extra build points and wealth.)

[abadguy]

That's kind of a weird setup, personally.. I'd probably just go straight Fighter, spend a few points on the Dungeoncrasher and maybe Zhentarim Fighter ACFs, take a template/race to make me Large.. and then laugh myself silly as I still had 2x the gear and better stats than the 'good' classes. Buyoff not really required, as good templates tend to be worth more than just 1 level for a BSF-type, but doable if you want.

Mmm I agree hence the paladin option. It is still quite useful even at higher levels. Going dungeoncrasher fighter makes it tier 4. And I would want to buyoff the LA if I'm Tier 5, the XP lag is more pronounced as we go along.

Do you know of race/templates that give large size?




If you want something a little more interesting, Goliath Barbarian (Mountain Rage racial sub level- would you have to pay for this as if it were an ACF?)/Totemist going into Totem Rager is a pretty good setup, but you'd be paying a lot of your 'wealth' for the privilege, and I can't say for sure if it'd actually be a good trade. You'd be giving yourself the 'reward' of lower starting stats, and then giving up basically all your gear on top of it (2000 splatclass, 2000 access to a PrC, 3000 LA buyoff, possibly 1000 'ACF'.. for all that, you'd almost certainly do better picking a more 'normal' tier 4 or 5 and making smart use of the extra build points and wealth.)

Yeah any sort of "alternative" option, be it racial substitution and the like, are subject to the 1000 points rule. Also includes LA+0 templates like Dragonborn.

Yup Totemist is defo one of my options as the class features do make up for lack of items.

Decisions, decisions!

[HunterOfJello]

I would go with a Warblade or Crusader. Character Wealth by Level at ECL 4 is only 5400gp. Once you start going in the campaign, you're likely going to have an even split of income as everyone else. After a few levels the wealth will have evened out and you'll be happy that you picked a ToB class instead of a Core Fighter.


If you don't have access to ToB then I suggest a Dungeoncrasher Fighter or Barbarian going into Frenzied Berserker or Bear Warrior.


An optimized Fighter using Dungeoncrasher and Zhentarim Soldier (found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)) can be pretty good.

Frenzied Berserker speaks for itself.

Bear Warrior lets you TURN INTO A BEAR!

~

Also obligatory links:

Consolidated Barbarian Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867934/Consolidated_Barbarian_Handbook)

Fighter Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870606/The_Fighters_Handbook_--_2007)