How to Have a Frenzied Berzerker NOT Kill You When You're Engaged To It

[Rasman]

I have done the impossible. I somehow convinced my fiance to try D&D. I apologize if this even being in a tread causes the forums to crash out of sheer shock. The most interesting thing is that she WANTS to play a Barbarian.

Well, I want to make her an effective character and what makes a better barbarian than a Frenzied Berzerker. It...kind of fits her personality anyway...

My only thoughts/problems with this is that if we're not in a large scale battle, she'll either end up killing half the party or the party will end up killing her...and the first person to feel the pain in and out of game would be me...

So, other than just building it straight Barbarian, what are some good ways to handle a "Friendly" Frenzied Berzerker?

[FMArthur]

Not to build a Frenzied berserker? There are tons of ways for a big burly melee guy to let loose and deal a preposterous amount of damage, and only one of them threatens to TPK after combat. :smallconfused:

[Jack_Simth]

They have problems with Reflex saves. Quickened Grease is your friend.

[SurlySeraph]

Have a wand of Calm Emotions ready at all times. Since you can choose to fail a save, that's really all you need.

[Akal Saris]

Give her levels in Thayan Bodyguard (same book as FB) and take levels in Red Wizard. Now she auto-fails spells cast by you. Like Calm Emotions.

[Chilingsworth]

Make a barbarian/fighter/warblade, or just a barbarian/warblade, maybe? Frenzied Beserker is just asking for trouble.

Edit- Also, congrats! I've also gotten my fiance to play recently.

[Gnaeus]

Steadfast Determination.
A luck feat or item to let you reroll a 1 on a save
lots of items that give you bonuses to your will save, starting with a vest of resistance.

Basically you can pimp your saves so that she comes out of frenzy on anything but a 1, and you reroll if you get a 1.

Alternately, if you like to live dangerously, you can design your casters to immobilize the berserker when it flips out. This is dangerous because it doesn't stop the FB from frenzying at an inopportune time and one-shotting the caster before they can lock him down.

[WinWin]

Frenzy requires that the character attack the closest enemy, only attacking allies if they are unreachable.

Summoning a critter or using a magic item to produce a punching bag provides a target for a FB to attack.

Subdual damage can take down a Frenzied Berseker very easily. This works even character has deathless frenzy (which incedentally is why Deathless Frenzy is a useless non-ability except for warforged). Due to the phrasing of Complete Warrior PrC's, reducing strength via penalties would also work.

There are a whole heap of methods for dealing with a character in a Frenzy, most of them require a little planning ahead though. When it comes down to it, nothing says that the FB has to use their most effective attacks on allies, just that they must fight foes to the best of their ability. They could use unarmed strikes.

Finally give the character a will boosting item. DC 20 to come out of frenzy is not that hard.

[Fouredged Sword]

Take a level of warblade. Iorn Heart Surge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Rasman]

Have a wand of Calm Emotions ready at all times. Since you can choose to fail a save, that's really all you need.

I have a Cleric of Calm Emotions, he will be an awesome replacement XD


Make a barbarian/fighter/warblade, or just a barbarian/warblade, maybe? Frenzied Beserker is just asking for trouble.

Edit- Also, congrats! I've also gotten my fiance to play recently.

I would throw in Warblade, but we're taking Baby steps here. If i wanted to run her off from D&D I would have made her play a Wizard. So I want to keep it FAIRLY simple, but still effective.

We may end up just Pinning her until she comes out of it like we did the FB we had to kill earlier in the battle.

And thanks, it was like pulling teeth until I explained to her that she could literally do "anything". I fear for my Druid's life now, but it got her to play.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

I believe there's also a feat in the Book of Exalted deeds that lets you remain in full control while using rage. (aka you can still use skills and choose to not attack/do other things instead of swinging). Though that might be the one prestige class... might be worth a look in any case.

[Rasman]

I believe there's also a feat in the Book of Exalted deeds that lets you remain in full control while using rage. (aka you can still use skills and choose to not attack/do other things instead of swinging). Though that might be the one prestige class... might be worth a look in any case.

I...think you're RIGHT! Good thing no one travels during the winter...4 hours of searching should turn it up XD.

[gorfnab]

I believe there's also a feat in the Book of Exalted deeds that lets you remain in full control while using rage. (aka you can still use skills and choose to not attack/do other things instead of swinging). Though that might be the one prestige class... might be worth a look in any case.
Feat: Righteous Wrath
Prestige Class: Champion of Gwynharwyf

[Rasman]

Feat: Righteous Wrath
Prestige Class: Champion of Gwynharwyf

you are gloriously awesome

I did I mention you're awesome in a shiny fashion?

I'm just glad that my Cleric won't have to prepare so many Calm Emotions spells now :D

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I prefer something like Goliath Whirlpounce Barbarian 1/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Bear Warrior X with Extra Rage, Improved Bull Rush, Knock-down and Shock Trooper myself. It's not too hard to learn, either.

Step 1. Get so angry you turn into a Bear.
Step 2. Charge and PA for full, dumping AC due to Shock Trooper.
Step 3a. Full attack for pretty good damage (only one-to-one PA conversion, but...)
Step 3b: Directed Bull Rush on every successful attack with an absolutely ridiculous modifier (8+str+2*PA), knocking the foe back for 8d6+3*str mod if he hits something hard.

[Eldonauran]

Feat: Righteous Wrath
Prestige Class: Champion of Gwynharwyf

I'm a fan of an Apostle of Peace character that acts as a "you-need-to-cool-off-now" buddy to a Frenzied Berserker. Vow of Peace (required for the prestige) grants an aura of 'Calm Emotions' (will negates). At second level, the Apostle gets a touch attack that is the same as Calm Emotions, except there is no save and spell resistance does not apply. So you can try to ignore the Aura but you keep it up, they are going to lay hands on you and you will CALM DOWN!

Sometimes, the BoED makes me happy. :smallamused:

*hand wave Jedi mind trick* You are not angry at me. You want to rethink your hostility.

[MeeposFire]

I believe there's also a feat in the Book of Exalted deeds that lets you remain in full control while using rage. (aka you can still use skills and choose to not attack/do other things instead of swinging). Though that might be the one prestige class... might be worth a look in any case.

Unfortunately it does not help. It is specific about what it does and what it does is not very helpful since you normally have control in a rage anyway.

It is debatable whether you can volunteer to fail a saving throw when you are trying your darndest to kill another party member. Same with iron heart surge. While it could remove the condition if you use it you can not attack and the frenzy says you must attack something so you would not be able to use iron heart surge unless it could not find somebody to attack (mass invisibility maybe?).

The biggest problem is if you do not neutralize the berserker fast enough then he will kill somebody very fast, as in one round so you need to be on the ball.

[Strife Warzeal]

*hand wave Jedi mind trick* You are not angry at me. You want to rethink your hostility.

I'm not angry at you. I want to rethink my hostility.

[Eldonauran]

I'm not angry at you. I want to rethink my hostility.

Excellent. We shall get along splendidly then. :smallwink:

[SurlySeraph]

Unfortunately it does not help. It is specific about what it does and what it does is not very helpful since you normally have control in a rage anyway.

Thus the interpretation that it must work for rage abilities that aren't explicitly called Rage, because if it doesn't it's totally useless.


It is debatable whether you can volunteer to fail a saving throw when you are trying your darndest to kill another party member. Same with iron heart surge. While it could remove the condition if you use it you can not attack and the frenzy says you must attack something so you would not be able to use iron heart surge unless it could not find somebody to attack (mass invisibility maybe?).

Legitimate point on IHS; I can see how needing to attack someone with your actions would keep you from taking the action to use it. However, on failing saving throws I find it's best to default to whatever's most fun. If you're playing a dark and tragic game in which it's thematically appropriate for one party member to attack others uncontrollably and not be able to do anything about it, then there's reason to disallow intentionally failing the save. In a normal game, for a new player, it'll probably be more enjoyable for everyone if the newbie doesn't slaughter the party.

[Rasman]

she actually just asked me an excellent question

if she's in a Frenzy and her hit points drop in the negatives below her Con, can she be healed above that or is she considered "the walking dead"?

[SurlySeraph]

As long as her frenzy hasn't ended yet, she can be healed.

[Lord.Sorasen]

So, if you guys choose that she can't intentionally fail saves while trying to kill you...

The apostle of peace, as has been mentioned, is a good idea. The apostle of peace has a power called "Pacifying touch" which can calm any unit with a touch attack, and has no save. However, it requires the vow of peace as a prerequisite feat. This will make your party hate you, generally.

Also, I hate to throw this out there.. But how are you going to heal her when she's berserking without her instinctively killing the healer?

Theoretically... If you use summon monster I to summon some terribly weak monsters, they could be cannon fodder for the berserker until the frenzy wears off.

[Thurbane]

I have seen some RAW enthusiasts argue that Righteous Wrath specifically applies to Rage, not Frenzy (a similar but different ability)...

[Rasman]

So, if you guys choose that she can't intentionally fail saves while trying to kill you...

The apostle of peace, as has been mentioned, is a good idea. The apostle of peace has a power called "Pacifying touch" which can calm any unit with a touch attack, and has no save. However, it requires the vow of peace as a prerequisite feat. This will make your party hate you, generally.

Also, I hate to throw this out there.. But how are you going to heal her when she's berserking without her instinctively killing the healer?

Theoretically... If you use summon monster I to summon some terribly weak monsters, they could be cannon fodder for the berserker until the frenzy wears off.

Wands of some sort, probably. I think our Cleric has a feat that allows him to using healing spells that have a range of touch at close range.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have a bag of marbles on all non frenzied berserker party members?

[The Gilded Duke]

Take some feats to pick up Iron Heart Surge. Most effective way to break frenzy, don't have to mess around with saving throws. Also helps against other negative effects.

[Urpriest]

I have seen some RAW enthusiasts argue that Righteous Wrath specifically applies to Rage, not Frenzy (a similar but different ability)...

If you want to be really RAW, it applies to Frenzy, but only if you're also Raging. So you'd want the feat that lets you Rage as an immediate action in order to get full benefit in a RAWverse.

As for the people arguing that it's useless because you aren't compelled to attack people in a Rage, there are a couple feats out there that are really fluff-heavy for DMs who really care about fluff being manifested through feats. It's not inconceivable that this is what's going on here, as there are other feats that are similarly useless.

[MeeposFire]

Thats true you could argue it might work if you are raging at the time which is fully within RAW. That feat has never made sense in that last paragraph. It is like some weird fluff passage since rage has always allowed you to do those things. Maybe the author did not realize that.

Personally I think this is one of the dumbest features in the game. We should not have class features that are practically gift wrapping a party member death at the end of a fight. A well optimized berserker can kill a party on accident if a kid threw a rock at him. If you are not 100% prepared he charges and kills one to two people a round until you calm them down.

[Thurbane]

Personally I think this is one of the dumbest features in the game. We should not have class features that are practically gift wrapping a party member death at the end of a fight. A well optimized berserker can kill a party on accident if a kid threw a rock at him. If you are not 100% prepared he charges and kills one to two people a round until you calm them down.
Wouldn't surprise me...a few things have crept into WotC splat books that seem as if the author was assuming a rule that didn't exist, or the wrong interpretation of an existing rule. BoED was also one of the first 3.5 splat books (after 3.0), so maybe there were some proposed changes to rage that didn't make the final cut of the PHB? Just a thought.

[herrhauptmann]

Steadfast Determination.
A luck feat or item to let you reroll a 1 on a save
lots of items that give you bonuses to your will save, starting with a vest of resistance.

Basically you can pimp your saves so that she comes out of frenzy on anything but a 1, and you reroll if you get a 1.


This is always the advice, and it's always half wrong.
Yes, you get the FB out of a frenzy. But what about stopping him from starting a frenzy in the first place? DC 10+ Damage dealt?
In a game that's supposed to optimized, trap damage can get pretty crazy. Can the FB make a DC30 will save? How about a 40?
What about if they know they're low on frenzies/rages, and want to avoid wasting one on a mook battle, or low on frenzy/rage and know that a final confrontation with the BBEG is about to happen. Every time they get hit, that's another will save. And not every enemy deals 1d8+5 damage.


To the OP:
Please don't do a FB for your fiance. Perhaps describe the regular rage the way a frenzy is described. Just emphasize that she still retains enough clarity to not attack allies.
Give her a drunken master for hilarity. Or a bear warrior. Perhaps just build up Bear McBearington the bearbarian or whatever he's called. No FB. Especially when you know it's going to cause a problem out of game.

[Psyren]

Be very careful with Exalted Feats (including Righteous Wrath.) They're all supernatural, which means she gets to go crazy again if you're in an AMF.

Champion of Gwynharwyf is better than FB anyway imo. Spells > no spells, especially since you can cast while raging.

[Mad Wizard]

Take a level of warblade. Iorn Heart Surge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

This, but don't even bother taking a level. Just take the feat that gives you a maneuver (assuming you have a feat to spare).

[MeeposFire]

That prestige class is a lot of fun and is better in most ways outside of super awesome power attack. Very mad though.

EDIT: To the above poster-you can not use iron heart surge as it will take your standard action and thus prevent you from attacking everything which you are required to do in a frenzy.

[Grelna the Blue]

To the OP:
Please don't do a FB for your fiance. Perhaps describe the regular rage the way a frenzy is described. Just emphasize that she still retains enough clarity to not attack allies.
Give her a drunken master for hilarity. Or a bear warrior. Perhaps just build up Bear McBearington the bearbarian or whatever he's called. No FB. Especially when you know it's going to cause a problem out of game.
+1.

She's your fiancée. On her very first character--quite possibly her only character if she doesn't have fun--do you truly want to take unnecessary chances? Normal barbarian rage is flavorful enough, truly. If you feel it's not, give her the Bear Warrior PrC or the Frostrager PrC (assuming you can clean up the errors in it) or something like that. Don't roll the dice on this one. That goes double if Frenzied Berserker "kind of fits" her personality.

[JaronK]

Well, I want to make her an effective character and what makes a better barbarian than a Frenzied Berzerker.

A Barbarian focused on mounted combat. Lance + Spirited Charge + Riding Boots beats Frenzy and the FB power attack mods any day. And then she doesn't destroy you... and gets an awesome mount to ride.

But if you really want FB, then Grease will stop her cold when she flips out. Calm Emotions is good too.

JaronK

[Psyren]

I still advocate Champion of Gwynharwyf. It's perfect. She gets all the fun of raging, plus she can clobber foes with nonlethal if she wants to, smite/detect evil, and even heal people. Compulsion-immunity later keeps her from being 'danced or dominated.

[Darrin]

But if you really want FB, then Grease will stop her cold when she flips out. Calm Emotions is good too.


Marbles (A&EG p. 24) are cheaper. 2 SP per bag. Spread a bag under her feat as a standard action. If she attempts to move out of that square or make an attack from it, she has to make a balance check, and she automatically fails while frenzying. (Note: she can jump or crawl out, but it may not occur to her to do so.)

[MeeposFire]

It has fair DR as well. It is like a normal barb but better.

[MeeposFire]

Marbles (A&EG p. 20) are cheaper. 2 SP per bag. Spread a bag under her feat as a standard action. If she attempts to move out of that square or make an attack from it, she has to make a balance check, and she automatically fails while frenzying. (Note: she can jump or crawl out, but it may not occur to her to do so.)

Can you drop an item from the A&EG as an immediate action when they were created before that action was created?

EDIT:oops I should have edited a previous post, sorry.

[Darrin]

Can you drop an item from the A&EG as an immediate action when they were created before that action was created?


That's more of a DM's call. The item description doesn't actually say what kind of action it takes to spread/deploy them. Even if you treat them as caltrops... the caltrops description doesn't specify what action it takes to spread/deploy them, either. Hmm. Not sure where I got the "standard action" thing, I thought that was part of the caltrops description.

Anyway, it'd be up to the DM. He might rule that just dropping them or emptying the bag into a square as a free action doesn't spread them out enough to pose a credible risk.

[Tiki Snakes]

The problem with marbles is not that it might take a certain action.

It's that if you aren't fighting on a flat, hard surface then they aren't going to do diddly squat. Marbles + Mud = Marbles in embedded in Mud and a TPK.

[ZeroNumerous]

Step 1: Cast Domination Person.
Step 2: Order the Frenzied Berserker to do as she(or he) wishes
Step 2a: Tell the player playing him(or her) to continue playing her(or him) as per normal.
Step 3: If at any point they ever Frenzy when you don't want them to, just take a free action to mentally order them to stop attacking you.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Step 1: Cast Domination Person.
Step 2: Order the Frenzied Berserker to do as she(or he) wishes
Step 2a: Tell the player playing him(or her) to continue playing her(or him) as per normal.
Step 3: If at any point they ever Frenzy when you don't want them to, just take a free action to mentally order them to stop attacking you.

Wouldn't work very well, as the berserker would still attack the closest creature.

[Grelna the Blue]

Step 1: Cast Domination Person.
Step 2: Order the Frenzied Berserker to do as she(or he) wishes
Step 2a: Tell the player playing him(or her) to continue playing her(or him) as per normal.
Step 3: If at any point they ever Frenzy when you don't want them to, just take a free action to mentally order them to stop attacking you.

Fine, aside from a few points.
1) It's a move action, not a free action.
2) No one appreciates being dominated (by the spell).
3) The Dominate spells says
Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus.Given that a raging barbarian already gets a bonus to Will saves and while in a frenzy any command to stop attacking is "against its nature", well...

[Hawk7915]

I'd like to 3rd the suggestion of "just don't use Frenzied Berserker". Not being able to control your character is super unfun and not a good introduction to gaming. In D&D you have to deal with loss of control at some point anyways (Dominate and other mental control spells), but having a character with a chance of flying into an unstoppable, party-murdering rage every time she gets tapped in addition to all the other stuff can't possible end well. For example, have you asked the rest of the party how they feel about introducing a character who may, at any given moment, kill their beloved characters they've had for several sessions?

If your group is only midlevel optimization, a stock barbarian with Leap Attack and Shock Trooper should be fine. If you really want an extra class, take Champion of Gwar-whatever or Hellreaver or Bear Warrior or literally anything but Frenzied Berserker. I think they'll all be simpler, more fun, and less risky.

[Rasman]

I'd like to 3rd the suggestion of "just don't use Frenzied Berserker". Not being able to control your character is super unfun and not a good introduction to gaming. In D&D you have to deal with loss of control at some point anyways (Dominate and other mental control spells), but having a character with a chance of flying into an unstoppable, party-murdering rage every time she gets tapped in addition to all the other stuff can't possible end well. For example, have you asked the rest of the party how they feel about introducing a character who may, at any given moment, kill their beloved characters they've had for several sessions?

If your group is only midlevel optimization, a stock barbarian with Leap Attack and Shock Trooper should be fine. If you really want an extra class, take Champion of Gwar-whatever or Hellreaver or Bear Warrior or literally anything but Frenzied Berserker. I think they'll all be simpler, more fun, and less risky.

I sadly agree with not wanting her to play a FB at this point. I'm "D&D Knowledge Base Fiating" that since she'll only be 9th level and is set on Half-Orc that she can't get all the feats that she'd need in order to be at the level to get Deathless Rage. She's mostly in the field of "I just want to break things" mindset, so I'm building the classic Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave Barbarian. Since it's a Pathfinder game, I'm also considering either Improved Bull Rush > Bull Rush Strike or Improved Sunder > Sundering Strike, but I'm not sold on anything on the last two feats yet.

I do appreciate all the feed back though. I kinda wish I had know some of it before we had to fight a FB in our campaign.

[LordBlades]

As others have said, you can either pick up Iron Heart Surge, or have her try a different class.

Barbarian/Fighter/Revenant Blade is also a very powerful and straightforward combination (and most girls that I know and are into fantasy have a sweet spot for elves anyway).

[Merellis]

Well, if you want to keep the Frenzied Beserker and have her able to make the DC 20 will to get out of it...

Might I suggest Druidic Avenger 8 to start with? Large Wildshape, 4th Level Spells (One being Sheltered Vitality to become immune to Fatigue/Exaustion/Ability Dmg/Ability Drain for 1 min/lvl, it is from Libris Mortis though. So no downside to ending the frenzy at all!), a +6 base save on Will plus whatever you went with for Wisdom. You get Intimidate/Listen/Spot/Concentrate as class skills so you can make her enimies pee themselves in fear as you hunt them down easily.

And for ease of paper-work, no Animal Companion, and no dropping spells to just cast Natures Ally.


Though thus also means that you don't get Deathless Frenzy for 3 more levels, but the fun of being a rampaging animal has HIGH strength is just hilarious.

[Myth]

Look into Runescarred Berserker from UE. I love me some FB but dropping that on a new player is too much.

[Psyx]

Kelp Strand is your friend.

[Tyndmyr]

Steadfast Determination.
A luck feat or item to let you reroll a 1 on a save
lots of items that give you bonuses to your will save, starting with a vest of resistance.

Basically you can pimp your saves so that she comes out of frenzy on anything but a 1, and you reroll if you get a 1.

Alternately, if you like to live dangerously, you can design your casters to immobilize the berserker when it flips out. This is dangerous because it doesn't stop the FB from frenzying at an inopportune time and one-shotting the caster before they can lock him down.

Even better, there's as luck feat that treats 1s on saves as nat 20s.

[Grelna the Blue]

If you do go the Sunder route, don't forget to give her a Adamantine weapon so she can ignore hardness.

[herrhauptmann]

Even better, there's as luck feat that treats 1s on saves as nat 20s.
But it requires a few other luck feats as pre-reqs.

If you do go the Sunder route, don't forget to give her a Adamantine weapon so she can ignore hardness.
Starmetal from Complete Arcane. Like adamant, but better.


Don't forget, it's only a DC20 to END the frenzy. It can be significantly higher if she gets attacked. Say while at the tavern. Or wandering the street looking for some place to sell loot. Depending on how initiative works out, the rest of you could be flatfooted with an invisible enemy, while she's foaming at the mouth. Closest person is gonna get hit. And if you're already wounded, or the wizard/sorc is closest, it's going to set up a great cleave domino.
Or better yet, "closest target" ends up being townsperson number 4. Gee, 5 hitpoints. By 9th level, with that luck feat, she could cleave her way through the entire town without powerattacking. +5str, +9 BAB, +2 weapon, that's enough to hit a commoner on a 2.

[Psyren]

By 9th level, with that luck feat, she could cleave her way through the entire town without powerattacking.

This made me chuckle more than it should have given the circumstances. :smallbiggrin:

[subject42]

At what level are you playing? (Crafted) contingent teleport/plane shift works really well for this. Just make sure that there are a few of them on the FB to cover "when I strike at an ally" and "after I calm down".

[Stegyre]

I have done the impossible. I somehow convinced my fiance to try D&D. . . . Well, I want to make her an effective character and what makes a better barbarian than a Frenzied Berzerker. It...kind of fits her personality anyway...

Wow! Rasman admits that he's engaged to a Frenzied Berzerker, and all our comments are just about dealing with the character?? :smallconfused:

We are gamer geeks, aren't we? :smalltongue:

(Being married to a Frenzied Berzerker -- one who doesn't game -- I found it too good an opportunity to pass up.)

The rest of you can continue addressing the question posed in the OP. I'm going to have a private chuckle about the good times in store for Rasman. :smallamused:

[Rasman]

Wow! Rasman admits that he's engaged to a Frenzied Berzerker, and all our comments are just about dealing with the character?? :smallconfused:

We are gamer geeks, aren't we? :smalltongue:

(Being married to a Frenzied Berzerker -- one who doesn't game -- I found it too good an opportunity to pass up.)

The rest of you can continue addressing the question posed in the OP. I'm going to have a private chuckle about the good times in store for Rasman. :smallamused:

she's really more about the RP of it than the "amg, I hit stuff and it dies"

Apparently her Barbarian is going to be terribly sensitive and she'll rage if anyone makes her cry

so it's more of a "Teary Berzerker" than a Frenzied one


But it requires a few other luck feats as pre-reqs.

Starmetal from Complete Arcane. Like adamant, but better.


Don't forget, it's only a DC20 to END the frenzy. It can be significantly higher if she gets attacked. Say while at the tavern. Or wandering the street looking for some place to sell loot. Depending on how initiative works out, the rest of you could be flatfooted with an invisible enemy, while she's foaming at the mouth. Closest person is gonna get hit. And if you're already wounded, or the wizard/sorc is closest, it's going to set up a great cleave domino.
Or better yet, "closest target" ends up being townsperson number 4. Gee, 5 hitpoints. By 9th level, with that luck feat, she could cleave her way through the entire town without powerattacking. +5str, +9 BAB, +2 weapon, that's enough to hit a commoner on a 2.

I made it worse...

her weapon crits on a 13 being a Serrated, Laminated Keen, Vicious +1 Falchion

Her DR says that she can't deal more than one point of damage to herself with it too...so...

and she has the Streetfighter Alt class feature from Cityscape, so it's even higher on a charge...so she'd crit on a 9 or 10...I think...

it literally wouldn't take her long to kill a small village...good thing we have several thousand goblins assaulting our castle...I'm just going to throw her into the middle and take a nap while she rolls dice

I've also considered making it a Large Size Falchion so it'd have reach...gives it that nice Anime Epic feel to it...best part might be that it only cost her half her starting gold...so I can make it worse...

[Ravens_cry]

Um, weapoms for Large creatures don't grant reach automatically to Medium creatures. One can, fairly reasonably too, make that a houserule, but by default a Large Falchion no more grants reach then a Medium one.

[grimbold]

this is a real strategy a group i had used to enact for the frenzied berserker in out door adventures
We would have a catapult with us at all times, whenever we saw an enemy coming we would toss "K'boom" towards the enemy where he would break into a frenzy and have a slaughterfest. He had so much hp he basically could not die from being launched several hundred feet.

asides from this the frenzied berserker can be dangerous,
hold person is another good spell to stop them.

[Wings of Peace]

Force her to make a balance check.

[Thurbane]

Her DR says that she can't deal more than one point of damage to herself with it too...so...
I believe the damage you take from your own Vicious weapon is untyped - I don't think DR would affect it. Of course, you are free to rule as you wish.

[Rasman]

I believe the damage you take from your own Vicious weapon is untyped - I don't think DR would affect it. Of course, you are free to rule as you wish.

the reason I say that is because we once fought Red Caps that used Vicious Scythes and they had DR that kept them from taking any damage, so I figure it would work that way in this case as well since it's just flat DR/- instead of something like DR/Slashing

[Grelna the Blue]

the reason I say that is because we once fought Red Caps that used Vicious Scythes and they had DR that kept them from taking any damage, so I figure it would work that way in this case as well since it's just flat DR/- instead of something like DR/Slashing

Damage Reduction works against physical nonmagical damage. I'm afraid it does nothing versus damage incurred from magic, with the sole exception of weapon enhancement bonuses (+1, +2, +3, etc), which are indirect (they make the weapon sharper, better balanced, or pointier). So DR doesn't help vs. spells, or the flames of an enemy's flaming sword, or the Vicious property of your own sword.

[herrhauptmann]

I made it worse...
her weapon crits on a 13 being a Serrated, Laminated Keen, Vicious +1 Falchion
Her DR says that she can't deal more than one point of damage to herself with it too...so...
and she has the Streetfighter Alt class feature from Cityscape, so it's even higher on a charge...so she'd crit on a 9 or 10...I think...
it literally wouldn't take her long to kill a small village...good thing we have several thousand goblins assaulting our castle...I'm just going to throw her into the middle and take a nap while she rolls dice

I've also considered making it a Large Size Falchion so it'd have reach...gives it that nice Anime Epic feel to it...best part might be that it only cost her half her starting gold...so I can make it worse...


1)What book are serrated and laminated in? They don't ring any bells for me.
2)Are you sure that serrated, laminated, keen all stack with one another, and that you're stacking correctly? A weapon with a crit range of 2, that gets doubled twice, has a crit range of 6, not 8.
Most crit builds tend to end at around 12-20 because of the nonstacking rule.
3)She wants to play someone with a certain personality shtick. And it's her first character. It's important to have a new player have fun and be effective, which means ensuring they don't play a Level 5 Monk/Paladin/Scout/Wizard. But giving them something complex which requires them to have written notes on how to act in combat (I saw it for a Leap attack/combat brute/shock trooper) fighter, makes them have less fun. At least for the non-munchkin newbie.


Um, weapoms for Large creatures don't grant reach automatically to Medium creatures. One can, fairly reasonably too, make that a houserule, but by default a Large Falchion no more grants reach then a Medium one.
+1.
That's why the titan blooded pixie gets an honorable mention any time a discussion arises over whether the rules make sense.
It's also why the gigantic reach builds use race/feats to get reach instead of trying to get larger size weapons. They get larger weapons just for more damage/lulz.

[Rasman]

1)What book are serrated and laminated in? They don't ring any bells for me.
2)Are you sure that serrated, laminated, keen all stack with one another, and that you're stacking correctly? A weapon with a crit range of 2, that gets doubled twice, has a crit range of 6, not 8.
Most crit builds tend to end at around 12-20 because of the nonstacking rule.
3)She wants to play someone with a certain personality shtick. And it's her first character. It's important to have a new player have fun and be effective, which means ensuring they don't play a Level 5 Monk/Paladin/Scout/Wizard. But giving them something complex which requires them to have written notes on how to act in combat (I saw it for a Leap attack/combat brute/shock trooper) fighter, makes them have less fun. At least for the non-munchkin newbie.

From the description I found, they do stack.

18-20 Falchion
17-20 Serrated Blades
16-20 Street Fighter Alternate Class Feature from Cityscape (Only while charging
Keen Weapon Double Threat Range

heh...I guess that is only a 12...I maintain that I'm not supposed to do math at certain hours of the day...