[3.5] Little Bit of Level Up Help

[Koury]

I'm DMing a game and for various reasons I am in charge of leveling up five of the six players. It's easier for some then others, however, and one of the ones I'm having trouble with is our parties resident tank/gish.

Current sheet (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=41891).

All the numbers on that sheet (except skills) are correct, I believe. I need help with what feat he should take. I'm really at a loss for what to give him. Also, he has about 8000 gp to spend on items, so useful suggestions for that are welcome also.

His usual combat style is to rush to the front lines and full attack like crazy, occasionally burning one of his Avenging Strikes (slightly houseruled to not require an evil target, and to apply on every attack for one round). When he can't do that, he usually fires off a Scorching Ray. His casting is very defense oriented (the party has a very effective battlefield controller). He is able to tank pretty well because of his DR.

Thoughts?

[Escheton]

What lvl is he and how many hit dice does the rakshasa have really. And did you use the SS lvling or something else?

Because it looks like he has 8 racial hit die and lvl 6 casting as a lvl 8 char.
I am missing some LA...
It;s your game and if the rest is gestalt or something it prolly balances out, but some more info would be nice.

[Koury]

Using the Rakshasa from the boards here.

Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7956421&postcount=32).

And yeah, hes got level 6 Sorc casting. Like I said, all the numbers on the sheet are correct (or should be). I'm at a loss for where to go for feats, however. :smallredface:

EDIT: To answer the actual question, he just hit level 8 (the XP on his sheet is correct).

[Escheton]

If he just hit 8 then he should not be getting a feat.
It might be wise to swap out the feats he has though.
Weapon finesse is pretty pointless if your dex is only 2 or 3 points higher then your str.
Improved crit I thought had a bab 8 requirement so I dont see how he took it at lvl 6.
Nor do I see how he has 4 attacks.
Further, what is avenging strike?

I'll look into replacement feats in a minute...

[Koury]

Yes, we have a different feat schedule (it's listed in the feat section correctly).

Weapon Finesse is a weak selecion, I agree. With regard to Imp Crit, its houseruled to come online slowly (reaching normal potential at 9 BAB as usual).

EDIT: you ninja edited me. :smallsmile:

Avenging Strike is a feat in ToB.
He has four attacks from TWFing being a single feat (TWF, ITWF and GTWF coming online as they would normally, minus the Dex prereqs of I/GTWF)

[Escheton]

Any more houserules one should take into account when browsing feats and items?

[Tvtyrant]

Okay, my biggest question is why Kopeshes? :P

Anyway, I would suggest using some metamagic goodness, since he is a level 6 Sorcerer. Knowing his spells would help, but in general extend is a good one for buffs, and reserve feats are good for psudeo-Warlock blasting.

[Koury]

Any more houserules one should take into account when browsing feats and items?

Edited my last post. But no, I don't have any item houserules at the moment. Should something become an issue, that may change, but nothing for now. (No Dust of Sneezing/Choking or things like that, but yeah).


Okay, my biggest question is why Kopeshes? :P

Anyway, I would suggest using some metamagic goodness, since he is a level 6 Sorcerer. Knowing his spells would help, but in general extend is a good one for buffs, and reserve feats are good for psudeo-Warlock blasting.

Khopesh was the players choice. Essentially they're just longswords. I'm not penalizing his TWFing though (so, light longswords, I suppose).

His spells are listed on the sheet.

Rods are an option, for sure. Reserve feats seem a little weak, however. 3d6 damage is not worth a feat when his basic attack deals so much more (assuming full attack. When he can't do that he usually tosses out a Scorching Ray which does 4d6 (and will get his 2nd ray next level)).

[Koury]

No further advice?

[herrhauptmann]

If he charges a lot, how about 2 weapon rend?
What spells does he have? I didn't see them listed.
How about gloves of the balanced hand. And a healing belt. Custom item which grants the psywar power synesthete.

You're probably not getting much advice because there's a lot of houserules/homebrew people had to ask about, rather than being told at start it existed.
Also, why is it that you the DM have to do this for your players?

[Tvtyrant]

Well the reserve feat is to not run out of blasting; you don't get to full attack every every round afterall!

If he is concentrating on melee he should work on getting pounce or two weapon rend.

[Koury]

If he charges a lot, how about 2 weapon rend?
What spells does he have? I didn't see them listed.
They're listed under "Spells" Its right under Skills.


You're probably not getting much advice because there's a lot of houserules/homebrew people had to ask about, rather than being told at start it existed. A lot of houserules? There are like 4 houserules. TWF is all one feat. Feats are gained at an accellerated rate (which is clearly detailed on the sheet itself). Avenging Strike is slightly less useless. His swords are longswords but are treated as light. Thats about it.


Also, why is it that you the DM have to do this for your players? Its just the way it is. I don't mind doing it really, I just don't know where to go for feats with him is all. Hes probably the #3 damage dealer in the group, and about the #2 most consistent hitter. His real schtick is that hes so consistent. In any given fight you can be sure he is hitting consistently for solid damage, and soaking most of the damage he takes due to his DR. I'm sure he'd like something to increase his damage output, so long as it doesn't cause him too much trouble with his to-hit.


How about gloves of the balanced hand. And a healing belt. Custom item which grants the psywar power synesthete.
I'm not familiar with most of these. (I know the Healing Belt, but he doesn't need much in the way of healing. Its mostly covered by the Wand of Lesser Vigor the party runs on.) I'll look into the other items.

He currently has no use for swift actions though.


Well the reserve feat is to not run out of blasting; you don't get to full attack every every round afterall!

If he is concentrating on melee he should work on getting pounce or two weapon rend.

He is actually pretty good at managing to score full attacks. He might pick up a level of Barb at 11 (his Rakshasa is only 10 levels) for pounce though. Where is Two Weapon Rend?

[Escheton]

The reason why it is difficult to think of something is because the level of balance is quite different from a normal build.
Normally one builds towards something and gets progressively better at something while still looking for ways to cover the weak areas.
This char has no weak areas and besides twoweapon fighting no real specialisation.
Further, almost every aspect is homebrew, the class, the feats, the number of feats.

Though for your current feat powerattack might be a good one.
Take some save or suck spells, such as ghouls touch. Then crit for massive amounts as your foe is paralysed.

[Koury]

The reason why it is difficult to think of something is because the level of balance is quite different from a normal build.
Normally one builds towards something and gets progressively better at something while still looking for ways to cover the weak areas.
This char has no weak areas and besides twoweapon fighting no real specialisation.
Further, almost every aspect is homebrew, the class, the feats, the number of feats.

Though for your current feat powerattack might be a good one.
Take some save or suck spells, such as ghouls touch. Then crit for massive amounts as your foe is paralysed.

I considered Power Attack. The main problem is that, at a one for one trade, its just not worth it. His +10/+10/+5/+5 routine would change to +2/+2/-3/-3 on a max attack for only 8 extra damage. If he used it while using an Avenging Strike he'd not lose any to-hit, but its still only 8 damage. It just seems weak.

As for him being all around solid, yes, thats what he was after. Hes pretty good at everything, but not spectacular at anything. And I believe you are right about tht being why I'm having trouble finding a route to take him.

[herrhauptmann]

Oooh, I see the spells now.
I don't use tangled web, didn't know they had an option to hide portions of the sheet.

And yes, your 4 houserules are significant, even if there's "only 4".
You took a 7 HD, LA+5 (?) creature, and turned it into something that can be played level by level alongside a normal character. Most of the houserules, we only found after asking.


Anyway, how about 'combat casting'? It might be a weak feat, but it would open him up to Abjurant champion later.
Or learn haste, take dodge and mobility. Go swiftblade later. Or do Abjurant Champion AND swiftblade.

What does the player want to do with his character? Does he give you direction, and then you make it happen? Or are you designing and implementing everything?

[Koury]

And yes, your 4 houserules are significant, even if there's "only 4".
You took a 7 HD, LA+5 (?) creature, and turned it into something that can be played level by level alongside a normal character. Most of the houserules, we only found after asking. I didn't do that, actually. It was pulled from the (rather large) list of creature that have been given this treatment in the homebrew sections here. I linked it in the 3rd post.


Anyway, how about 'combat casting'? It might be a weak feat, but it would open him up to Abjurant champion later.
Or learn haste, take dodge and mobility. Go swiftblade later. Or do Abjurant Champion AND swiftblade. Both solid options. I'd need to look at Swiftblade again, but is it worth taking 5 levels (assuming a Rakshasa 10/Abjurant Champ 5/Swiftblade 5)?


What does the player want to do with his character? Does he give you direction, and then you make it happen? Or are you designing and implementing everything? To put it simply, he wanted to be a Rakshasa. He wanted to be a gish-y type, using magic to augment his fighting prowess. He wanted to use dual khopeshes.

Thats about all I was given.

[Douglas]

How the hell has this thread gotten this far with no one mentioning Arcane Strike? Seriously, Arcane Strike is THE quintessential gish feat and he's got the prereqs..

[Tael]

Swiftblade is Fantastic, as is Abjurant Champion obviously.

I also second Arcane Strike. For a character with 4 attacks it's really good. And damage seems to be exactly what he needs.

[Keld Denar]

Arcane Strike is not quite so good for a TWFer, since as written, it only applies to one weapon. Also, it requires 3rd level spells, which I don't think he has. Not a terrible option, but not a bad one.

What about a more defensively oriented feat? Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness) is one of my typical go-to feats for filling space. No prereqs, and if you start your turn unable to act, you get a save to salvage your standard action at least, even if the ability that denied your action normally doesn't allow a save. Improved Toughness isn't a bad option either, since using monster levels he has full HD.

I'd say that if he can't go Rakshasa10/Swiftblade9 at LEAST, he should probably skip Swiftblade. AbjChamp5/SacEx5 would be decent, or AbjChamp5/Spellsword1/SacEx4 even better with an extra point of BAB.

[Koury]

What seems the better build, you think? Rakshasa 10/Abj. Champ. 5/X 5 or Rakshasa 10/Swiftblade 10.

For Abjurant Champion, I would change Mage Armor and Shield (etc) to Abjuration. He'd get free Extend on all his Abjurations, and free Quicken up to 3rd level on Abjurations. He'd gain Arcane Boost, giving him a mediocre bonus to certain options (think of it as Arcane Strike Lite, but with minor defensive options too, and not repeatable like Arcane Strike is.) He'd also gain a few Caster Levels, since he'd still be full BAB. It has one prereq feat, and has 5 levels left at the end.

Swiftblade, however, gives him concealment, a huge bonus to initiative, an extra standard action per round and a form of Time Stop (which will always be capped at one round since he'd only have 12th level casting). It has two junk prereqs, but at least one can be gotten via armor.

Opinions? I'm leaning Swiftblade.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Keld. He just got 3rd level spells.

[Keld Denar]

Rakshasa10/Swiftblade10 is no doubt stronger, IMO, and tends to lend more to his play style than a more caster oriented build. Higher level spells are great and all, but most of the good gishy buffs are all in the 1-5 level range. Plus, if he takes over on the buffage with Haste, it'll take pressure off our BC mage to cast Haste as well, since she didn't seem to like the idea of doing something that wasn't directly royally screwing the bad guys. Plus, the extra actions he gets synergize will with TWFing, allowing you to be much more mobile, and the miss chance makes him a LOT more tanky on top of his DR and massive AC.

Also, he'd qualify for Elusive Target at 12, always a fun time.

[herrhauptmann]

I'd say that if he can't go Rakshasa10/Swiftblade9 at LEAST, he should probably skip Swiftblade. AbjChamp5/SacEx5 would be decent, or AbjChamp5/Spellsword1/SacEx4 even better with an extra point of BAB.
He doesn't have the alignment for Sacred Exorcist.

Although, if the fluff and roleplaying can be adjusted to fit, I'd suggest a pair of [exalted] feats for entry into Risen Martyr in addition to Sacred Exorcist.
You need, I think nimbus of light, and one other exalted feat. In exchange, should you ever die without getting resurrected (on a task relevant to your holy mission), you come back as a risen martyr level 0, having gained the 'deathless' creature type. Deathless gives you a whole bunch of effects, similar to being undead, but without some of the penalties. It also grants a bit of charisma bonus, and some charisma synergies. It's in Book of Exalted Deeds, and the deathless type is in the same book, but in the monster section.
-Cha boost, deathless type. Deflection bonus equal to charisma. 3 elemental immunities. Various auras. Bunch of minor, though flavorful Supernatural abilities.

I've never used it, but in 'uberhard' games, if I'm playing a holy type (especially the only one in the party), I'll usually consider spending two feats for a guaranteed resurrect.
I mention it now, because I was investigating it in preparation of entering a PbP game here, adding it to my Cleric/Radiant Servant/Sacred Exorcist.

[Optimator]

For a melee character which I don't know what feat to choose, I always fall back on Close-Quarters Fighting.

[Tael]

Although, if the fluff and roleplaying can be adjusted to fit, I'd suggest a pair of [exalted] feats for entry into
Risen Martyr


Risen Martyr


Risen Martyr

NOOOO! Don't do it! If you so much as think of doing something wrong, you die! And isn't even very good anyway, with no way to get out of it! And the capstone is that you die!

tl;dr: Don't.

[Psyren]

Risen Martyr is for games with no resurrection... and even then it's better to just reroll.

[Koury]

Looks like the player is leaning heavily toward Swiftblade. Thankl you all for the help with him. :smallsmile:

Now, any advice for this Factotum (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=42731)?

He is lacking a bit in the to-hit department and the damage department (except when he is able to dump a bunch of points on Sneaks). He is just now getting Cunning Surge, so we'll see how he does, but I'm still thinking he's on the weak side.

Thoughts on him? Session is tomorrow, so any advice I get tonight is good. :smallsmile:

EDIT: There is a good chance he just takes another FoI, as he just got another point of Int bonus. But in the future hes thinking either Warblade 12 or Factotum 19/X 1.

[Escheton]

Can't do much combat-wise with that factotum, he has neither the str or dex to take any chain that would be good.
I really don't get the 14 con and cha.

[Koury]

Can't do much combat-wise with that factotum, he has neither the str or dex to take any chain that would be good.
I really don't get the 14 con and cha.

The player specifically wanted the Cha. Nothing wrong with 14 Con though.

[Escheton]

The player specifically wanted the Cha. Nothing wrong with 14 Con though.

If it didn't prevent him from taking many-shot, i'd agree

[Gabe the Bard]

Here's a thread from the homebrew section with some feats for the Factotum, if you choose to allow them:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51893

I'm not sure if any of these can help your factotum hit things better. Short of taking something like weapon focus, you may need to look at the long term and consider multiclassing. Swashbuckler could take some advantage of the high Int score.

Alternatively, you could try to boost his other features, such as spellcasting, which may be able to help his martial abilities indirectly. Or a familiar perhaps?

Edit: If his Charisma were 1 point higher, he could also take Imperious Command and demoralize his enemies to make them cower.

For all of your spontaneous casters, you should consider Rapid Metamagic so they can eventually have access to quicken metamagic rods. Since you're using a different feat schedule, you'll have to wait until after 9th level, though.