monk/cleric disarm build, any help?

[brann miekka]

hiya, my friend is running a game soon that, grudgingly, im joining(hes not a very good dm) but anyways i decided to try a build i was pondering for a while. its a monk/cleric build made to disarm and overall destroy his creatures with harm+stunning fist moves.

so far im a human monk 3/cleric 7
stats are

str 18
dex 18
con 15
int 14
wis 18
cha 16

(ability bumps are used)

i havent chosen feats yet but atleast one will be improved disarm, and a favored tactic of mine will be to divine power myself, enlarge via domain then disarm the biggest dude in the room and drop him out of commission with a stunning fist and an inflict serious wounds combo( not sure if thats technically legal but my dm said it was ok).

im not sure how this build will work but ide apreciate some feedback on what i could do with the resources i have(dmg,phbI/II, MM, complete adventurer)
thx.

[Master_Rahl22]

Disarming as a Monk is kind of a trap. You won't be all that great at it and not everything you fight needs a weapon. Tripping or grappling focus would be much better. Also, it's best to stop with Monk levels at 1, 2, or 6 since those are the best breakpoints in their abilities.

You should try to get access to Complete Divine, since Sacred Fist progresses unarmed damage and divine casting. Without it, you should probably stop taking Monk levels after 6 at max and then go Cleric all of the rest of the way.

[Mikka]

2 monk levels gives you 2 feats, unarmed strike, evasion/spell deflection and +3 to all saves. very worthwhile.

3 levels though . thats a waste.

Check out the sacred fist like the above poster suggested, sounds like you can use it, also, check out alternative monk class features so that you can chose what the two bonus feats you get will be : )

[brann miekka]

normally i could agree with you, except my dm isnt smart enough to use creatures without weapons, hes ganna send the biggest orc with the biggest flaming greataxe at us and ide like to be prepared. as to complete divine, i tried hes adamant on not allowing any other books, too hectic for him. if others were allowed ide take feats from sword and fist that book is too good to pass up if its open.

[Curmudgeon]

a favored tactic of mine will be to divine power myself, enlarge via domain then disarm the biggest dude in the room and drop him out of commission with a stunning fist and an inflict serious wounds combo( not sure if thats technically legal but my dm said it was ok).
It's quite legal, too. Inflict Serous Wounds is a touch attack spell. Casting a touch attack spell grants you a bonus attack with which to (try to) deliver that touch charge in the casting round. You may also make an unarmed attack to (try to) deliver that spell, but of course that reduces your chances of hitting compared to a touch-only attack. The Stunning Fist effect piggybacks on any unarmed attack. So all of this hangs together, at least by the rules. How it fares when you try to make all those rolls is an other matter, of course. :smallwink:

[brann miekka]

mikka- thx, i seem to awkwardly place the levels, the 7 levels cleric is the base for fourth level spells and the 3 monk was so once i bought the belt of the monk i would be doing 1d10 instead of a d8 for damage, for best damage in the now i figured this was the best combo split, but i do see where your coming from and ty, i should have specified that i was going to buy that belt.

curmudgeon- also thx, i had my doubts when i saw a feat somewhere that did close to the same thing, it was smite spell i believe, so i figured ide ask someone with more knowledge than myself.

also for something i might have neglected to mention(if it matters) this is a twenty level build im going for so i plan to have this build monk6/cleric14, that is unless someone can suggest a better combination(multiclass penalties are of no consequence to me)

[Gavinfoxx]

Whyever are you watering down one of the BEST classes in the game, known for melee awesomeneess with one of the WORST classes in the game, known for melee suckiness?

If you want to deal damage as a cleric, just two hand a Morningstar, and *cast buffs*!

Going from a d6 to a d8 is a +1 damage point, and a d8 to a d10 is another +1, which is basically WORTHLESS.

As a cleric, you have, for example, access to these spells:


Bless
Divine Favor
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Magic Weapon
Magic Vestment
Prayer
Divine Power
Freedom of Movement
Greater Magic Weapon
Righteous Might
Wind Wall
Summon Monster
Lesser Planar Ally


With these spells, they can take care of ANYTHING that might melee them... or if they need melee to happen without them getting their hands dirty, they can do that too. Really, if your DM isn't that great at DMing, you should keep things simple. Just go human, straight Cleric, PHB only, and cast buff spells. You'll be fine.

And, oh god, what level will you be playing at most of the time? If you are ever going to be at level level 17 or up, YOU NEED NINTH LEVEL SPELLS!!

[Mikka]

taking an entire level monk for +0-2 damage. . is pretty damn bad : P

[ericgrau]

Action economy is huge. I wouldn't spend more than 1 round buffing yourself. In 2 rounds a lot of the fight is already resolved. Better yet you may want to try for a permanent enlarge person to make it 0. Do you have a way to get your caster level up to your character level for divine power BAB? It's already questionable as-is at a 1 round casting time. An extra round to full attack might be better unless you get a buffing round.

See if your DM will allow a sai's +4 to disarm to be an actual +4. Cue debate on weapon size and how a weapon designed for disarming isn't good at it. Ok is that over now? Good, just ask the DM what he thinks.

Or if you get your modifier really high and get martial weapon proficiency somehow then you could disarm the target unarmed, eat the -4, and now you wield that pretty flaming axe and he can't have it back. Unarmed disarms may put the weapon in your hand.

Basically you want to boost your size and attack bonus as much as possible without eating combat rounds if possible. If you can ask the casters for all day buffs or use magic items (expendable or permanent) for all day buffs then that's best.

[Darrin]

im not sure how this build will work but ide apreciate some feedback on what i could do with the resources i have(dmg,phbI/II, MM, complete adventurer)
thx.

Do you have access to online resources, such as the SRD and any WotC online articles? That might open up a few options.

For example, the monk variant fighting styles opens up more options with your bonus feats. For example, the Passive Way lets you take Combat Expertise at 1st level and Improved Trip at 2nd level. This lets you take Improved Disarm as your 1st or 3rd level feat. If your target doesn't have a weapon, Improved Trip is a decent way to delay/annoy an enemy (and you're much more likely to encounter enemies with legs than you are enemies with disarmable weapons). And Knock-Down, the red-headed stepchild of Improved Trip, is available in the SRD in the Divine Feats section (without the errata from Sword & Fist). You won't get Stunning Fist, though. (Personally, I think Stunning Fist is a complete waste of a feat, but you're welcome to disagree.)

Start with Monk 2/Cleric 8. No, it's not optimal, but it should make a perfectly servicable disarmer. For deities, try Zuoken (link to Living Greyhawk Deities 2.0 (http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip)). This gives you access to the Strength and War domains (and, oddly enough, gives your monk proficiency with unarmed strikes).

If you can get access to earlier 3.0 books, beg/plead/blackmail your DM into letting you take Snatch Weapon from Song & Silence. No, it's not optimal, but there's nothing more satisfying than taking an opponent's weapon right out of his hands and smacking him with it.

Some other options to consider from your available sourcebooks:

Ability Focus (MM): If you do take Stunning Fist, you can increase the save DC by 2.

Improved Natural Attack (MM): Gives you a size increase on your unarmed strike. Enlarge person + INA = somewhat more decent unarmed damage.

Fiery Fist (PHBII): Convert your Stunning Fist uses into +1d6 fire damage on all your unarmed attacks. Not very optimal, but looks friggin' awesome.

Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHBII): Actually I can't recall why I was recommending this feat... although zombies might be involved. Or bladebane, which is a spell you don't have access to (Unapproachable East).

[brann miekka]

wow, im apparently worse than i thought and this is shooting me out of the sky^^, on the bright side i did get my dm to allow sacred fist so as of know im a monk 3/cleric3/sacred fist 4, is this the right route to take? p.s. since i dont take this campaign too seriously im sort of going for aesthetics on this one. i love all the help im getting, and i kinda just figured an unarmed cleric type person would be fun.

but besides that, the third level in monk also gets my flurry up to a +0+0 which means i can get full str on damage on both attacks (since monks have no off-hand) and no penalties for two attacks above the norm, right?

[mikethepoor]

but besides that, the third level in monk also gets my flurry up to a +0+0 which means i can get full str on damage on both attacks (since monks have no off-hand) and no penalties for two attacks above the norm, right?

The total modifier is +0 for each attack, yes: +2 for factoring in your base attack bonus, -2 for the flurrying penalty. The penalty for flurrying drops to -1 at 5th level and -0 at 9th.

[Darrin]

wow, im apparently worse than i thought and this is shooting me out of the sky^^,


Don't worry about being uber-optimized. Your job is to have fun with the character. A disarming monk/cleric can still be effective and fun to play.



on the bright side i did get my dm to allow sacred fist so as of know im a monk 3/cleric3/sacred fist 4, is this the right route to take?


Make sure the DM is aware that the Sacred Fist should get +1 caster level for every level of Sacred Fist. The advancement table says they don't get a caster level and Sacred Fist 4 and 8, but if you read the "Spells Per Day/Spells Known" section, the text states that they get another caster level every time they level up as a Sacred Fist. The WotC rule for discrepancies between text and table is: Text Trumps Table.



but besides that, the third level in monk also gets my flurry up to a +0+0 which means i can get full str on damage on both attacks (since monks have no off-hand) and no penalties for two attacks above the norm, right?

3rd level in monk gets you nothing but "Still Mind", which is an almost meaningless +2 bonus on saves vs. enchantment effects. At 3rd level, your Flurry penalty is still -2 on all attacks. The monk's normal BAB at 3rd level is +2, so -2 penalty for two attacks = "+0/+0". Your Flurry penalty drops to -1 at 5th level monk, and at 9th level it drops to zero. That's why most folks recommend only taking 2 levels of monk: get your two bonus feats, and then get into a class that can actually hurt things.

[Master_Rahl22]

My preferred entry into Sacred Fist is Monk 2/Cleric 4. That 3rd level of Monk is pretty worthless considering you have a 10 level PrC to progress your unarmed damage and speed boosts, and Cleric levels to take after that's done.