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Maho-Tsukai
2010-12-16, 04:45 PM
Exlcuding 3rd party and Dragon Magnetize exclusives like the Death Master, 3.5e has little options for the Arcane Necromancer aspiring to have an undead legion. While the Dread Necromancer certainly gets to have a big army, wizards and sorcerers get shafted in the whole "commanding lots of undead" area of necromancy and to me that's a big shame. Thus, instead of changing the classes I have decided to start to homebrew a series of spells and feats which allow the arcane necromancer(but specifically the wizard) the ability to compete with clerics in the legion animating aspect of necromancy. However, my issue is that what I have made thus far is not balanced and thus I want your help balancing it.

New Wiz/Sorc spells

Lesser Animate Dead
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Wiz/Sorc 2
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Instantaneous
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Area: Special
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

This spell acts as Animate Dead in all ways except the following. Corpses animated by this spell may be no older then one day per level of the caster. The creatures animated by this spell are not completely functional and only stay animated as long as the caster devotes some portion of his attention to their existence. This spell instantly ceases if the caster loses consciousness. If the caster is stunned or otherwise unable to think clearly, the undead pause during this time. The caster may still cast spells freely while he/she has undead animated by this spell under his/her control. If an undead creature animated with this spell is “killed” it turns to dust, leaving the remains unable to be animated again. The Materal components for this spell is a drop of blood, a piece of human flesh and bone dust which must be sprinkled on the corpses animated with this spell. This spell possesses it's own control pool and animation limit which is identical to that of the Animate Dead spell.

Desecration
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Wizard/Sorc 3
Components: V, S. M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close
Area: 20-ft. radius emanation
Duration 2 hours/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell acts as the Desecrate spell except as noted. Anybody who casts Lesser Animate Dead, Animate Dead, Greater Animate Dead or Perfect Animate Dead in an area desecrated by this spell can chose to create double the amount of undead those spells would normally allow a caster to animate. In addition, any shrine, alter or permanent fixture dedicated to any evil aligned god gives undead in the area desecrated by this spell the bonuses the desecrate spell gives to undead for a shrine, alter or permanent fixture dedicated to a cleric’s patron deity being present in the desecrated zone.

Animate Skeletal Minions
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Wiz/Sorc 3
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Instantaneous
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Area: Special
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

This Spell acts in the same manner as Animate Dead except for the following differences. All undead animated by this spell are skeletons. All flesh is removed from the corpses by the negative energy this spell channels into the bodies. This spell possesses it's own control pool and animation limit that is identical to that of the spell Animate Dead. This spell is treated as the spell "Animate Dead" for the effects of spells such as Desecrate and Desecration, as well as feats like Legion of Undeath

Animate Zombie Minions
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Wiz/Sorc 4
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Instantaneous
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Area: Special
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

This spell acts in the same manner as Animate Skeletal Minions except it animates zombies instead of skeletons and no flesh is removed from the bodies during the casting of this spell. This spell possesses it's own control pool and animation limit that is identical to that of the spell Animate Dead. This spell is treated as the spell "Animate Dead" for the effects of spells such as Desecrate and Desecration, as well as feats like Legion of Undeath

Greater Animate Dead
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Wiz/Sorc 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

This spell functions in the exact same manner as the spell Animate Dead except as noted. The limit on the number of Undead this spell can create is 3HD per caster level rather then 2 HD per caster level. In addition, the amount of undead created by this spell that the caster can control is 6HD per caster level rather then the standard 4HD per caster level.


Perfect Animate Dead
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Wiz/Sorc 8
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Targets: One or more corpses touched
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

This spell functions in the exact same manner as the spell Animate Dead except as noted. The limit on the number of Undead this spell can create is 4HD per caster level rather then 2 HD per caster level. In addition, the amount of undead created by this spell that the caster can control is 8HD per caster level rather then the standard 4HD per caster level.

All other spells are [WIP]

New Feats

Zone of Desecration
Prerequisites: Corpsecrafter, Ability to cast the spell Desecration
Benefits: You gain an ability identical to the Zone of Desecration class feature of the True Necromancer prestige class. At 13th level and onward, this ability gains the benefits of the Major Desecration class feature of the True Necromancer prestige class.

Legions of Undeath
Prerequisite: Corpsecrafter, Ability to cast the spell Lesser Animate Dead
Benefits: You add your intelligence or charisma modifier, whichever is higher, to the number of undead you can control with the spells Lesser Animate Dead, Animate Dead, Greater Animate Dead and Perfect Animate Dead. This ability dose not stack with the Undead Mastery class feature and if you already possess or gain the Undead Mastery class feature while you have this feat all spells that would be effected by this feat are instead effected by the Undead Mastery class feature.

All other new feats are [WIP]
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Please note that all of these feats and spells are WIPs and thus I want your input on how to balance them if they are unbalanced. In addition, once I finish all of these and get your input I would like to start a sort of "community project" to assemble all Necromancy related homebrew from this forum including feats,classes, PrCs, spells ect.. into one nicely assembled pdf that will be the ultimate resource for necromancy homebrew that can be used in 3.5e.

I know that some of you are going to ask why these homebrew spells I have made are not also on the cleric list and that's because I don't want them to be. These spells and feats where created for wizards(and sorcerers, though wizards where at the forefront of my mind for this) to be able to be on-par with clerics in the necromancy department. Thus, while these spells do make them good animators, if clerics got them then they would once again be better then wizards at necromancy. Thus, these feats and spells where created to give wizards some things which can replicate key cleric abilities and some things that clerics can't do as far as animating minions goes. That's why their not on the cleric list. Clerics are good enough animators with their current list, wizards(and sorcerers) are not. So, despite how much you tell me to put these spells on the cleric list I will absolutely refuse to do so. Not to be rude or anything but telling me to do so is a lost cause because it won't happen and I just want to make that clear to anybody who had that question in mind when reading through these.

So, can any of you help me make these more balanced/better.(Though without putting them on the cleric list.)

Hyooz
2010-12-16, 04:52 PM
Wait, what's wrong with the Dread Necromancer?

Maho-Tsukai
2010-12-16, 04:54 PM
Nothing. It's fine as it is. These where created to give Wizards(and sorcs) the ability to animate undead legions as good as a cleric or DN can. If the DN needed help then these spells would also be put on the DN list but the DN dose not need help. These spells and feats where created PRIMARILY to aid the Wizard(and sorc to a lesser extent) in the animating/legion creating part of Necromancy. The reason DNs where mentioned however was because some of these feats/spells can be obtained due to advance learning.

gkathellar
2010-12-16, 04:58 PM
I'm ... thinking that this is wholly unnecessary? The Dread Necromancer can do the big undead army thing already, also allowing wizards to do it just means there's one more class that everyone's favorite gamebreaker makes irrelevant.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-12-16, 05:01 PM
The cleric can do it, and do it better then the DN. I don't really like clerics that much and have played too many DNs and I have ALWAYS been trying to find a way to make Wizards able to be a good undead horde maker. Wizards make poor necromancers without homebrew or 3rd party help, pure and simple.(That is unless your not into the whole "army of undead" thing.)However, if you feel this makes the wizard too broken(which he/she already is anyway) then I can easily eliminate the undead mastery-esc feat or just give all these spells to the DN as well.

gkathellar
2010-12-16, 05:04 PM
It doesn't really matter from a broken-ness perspective, that's probably fine. You're not going to make the wizard any worse (better) than it already is. It just rubs me the wrong way that classes other than the DN could be as good at the DN's schtick as it is. But that's basically what Tier One classes do, so go nuts.

Gamer Girl
2010-12-16, 05:24 PM
Animate Skeleton-This spell animates 1 Skeleton to serve as your minion.

No HD limit? So with this spell the necromancer can be making powerful high HD skeletons?



Skeletons animated with this spell do not count against your control limit but no matter what your control limit is this spell can only animate one corpse per cast.

And worse you can create a unlimited number of powerful skeletons?



Animate Zombie

Same problem as Animate Skeleton, the necromancer could have an unlimited army in just a little time.





Lesser Animate Dead

This spell acts as Animate Dead in all ways except the following.

So do lesser undead count towards the Animate Dead HD? Or does Lesser Animate Dead have a HD cap on the number it can control? Or does this lower level spell allow the caster to have an unlimited number in their army.



This spell instantly ceases if the caster loses consciousness.

Does this include sleep? Do the lesser animated undead turn to dust when the caster sleeps for the night? What about magical sleep? What about peterfication?

And what about undead spellcasters that don't ever sleep? Does a lich get to keep their lesser undead army forever?



The material components for this spell include a drop of blood, a piece of human flesh and either bone dust or a bone shard.

So you get cheap undead fodder? The you can make powerful undead, for free? And they last forever? Or at least a day? So a necromancy can always have an army of high powered skeletons and zombies around?

Desecration


Greater Desecrate looks ok



Animate Skeletal Minions and Animate Zombie Minions

Same problems as the lower level spells, unlimited skeletons and zombies.



Greater Animate Dead and Perfect Animate Dead

No problems here. They even has a HD limit.






Zone of Desecration, Legion of Undeath

Look just fine.


Necromancer’s Rebuke

This is not a 'feat'. This is an Alternative Cass Feature. Why have a character waste a feat slot to get this ability?

And Zone of Desecration might make a better Alternative Class Feature too.

Lateral
2010-12-16, 07:32 PM
1 and 3. No, by the rules, animating skeletons/zombies would have the number of HD that the dead corpse had. Skeleton/zombie are templates, they don't turn them into a new creature.
2. It takes 24 hours to prepare the salve, so that doesn't really matter for your average PC. That said, I agree, it should count towards your total.
5. "Unconsciousness" pretty definitely means "Unconsciousness". Sleep, KOs, petrification, any time your conscious mind is dormant. That way, the spell stops after the day ends, to keep a handle on its spell level.
6. No, you need high-level corpses first. See my first response.

Maho-Tsukai
2010-12-16, 08:46 PM
Thanks for the advice. It really helped me thus far. I decided the single target animation spells where both too overpowered and also, not really nessicary. level 1 is too soon to be animating skeletons of big creatures anyway. Instead I am working on a 3.5e version of "Animate Dead Animals" from 2e for the level 1 spell slot...it will more or less be a low level animate dead spell that only works on animals and only on animals of the same species. The only part I am having an issue with for that one is material components since animate dead's normal components won't be obtainable for 1st level PCs. Also, Lesser Animate Dead and the animate skeletal/zombie minions line are their own control pools whose sizes are equal to animate dead. I thought the whole thing about "identical to animate dead except the following" would make it clear that they had their own control pool which was the same size as the control pool of animate dead. As for the skeletal/zombie minions line I am making them use the standard material components for animate dead rather then the cheaper ones which I chose mostly for flavor. Lesser Animate dead keeps it's cheap components, however, because the components for animate dead will be hard to come by at low levels.

bloodtide
2010-12-16, 09:53 PM
Lesser Animate Dead

All of these spells are way to open to abuse. Even with the Same HD pool and the concentration.

The problem is simple, a necromancer can just stock up on high HD powerful monsters and simply kill and animate them at a moments notice and have a super undead army.

And even if the necromancer does not have elite undead around, they can still get fully functioning undead for a day. A low level caster could only animate one Ettin skeleton a day, but for that whole day he would have a 5 Cr monster skeleton.

An easy fix might be to limit the number of HD that can be created, such as capping at your caster level. Or limiting the skeletons to animals or at least medium sized creatures. Animate Dead should remain the 'make any type' spell, with the lesser versions doing less.

A nice flavor component and balance idea might be the necromancer has to use a 'hit point' to keep each undead in existence. Naturally this puts a limit on the number of undead that can be created. At the end of the concentration, the caster would get the hp back, but if the undead are destroyed, maybe have a 50% that it's lost as 'damage'.

This could also remove them from the Animate dead pool too. As the hit points are more then enough risk for a wizard.

I like the flavor of creating temporary undead at the cost of the caster life force.

BladeofOblivion
2010-12-16, 10:29 PM
Well, I actually had an idea somewhat like this, but my approach was very different. My feats and spells were open to clerics, but were generally regarded as balanced. Of course, my caveat with undead is that he same old Zombies and skeletons get boring, but you also get sick of special undead, which start to feel common. So, I...

You know what? See for yourself: the link is in my sig under homebrew.

Benly
2010-12-17, 04:28 AM
By the wording "This spell possesses it's own control pool and animation limit that is identical to that of the spell Animate Dead.", I assume you mean it has its own control pool that is calculated identically to that of Animate Dead and includes all bonuses to Animate Dead.

Why would a Dread Necromancer not poach these with advanced learning and thereby triple his already-gigantic undead army? (Not to mention getting them started faster.)

Pyromancer999
2010-12-18, 12:44 PM
No offense, but a lot of this looks a lot like Moongoose Publishing's Encyclopedia Arcane: Necromancy.