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Welknair
2010-12-16, 05:54 PM
I recently got Exalted 2e after perusing 1e. Wow. It's taking me a little while to get a hold of all of the new information and mechanics, but I have most of it down. Only a couple ideas still elude me.

1. When looking at the artifacts, namely the weapons, there are several values. I don't know what the "Attune" number represents, nor do I know what the "Cost" dots mean. I'd assume that the latter was the amount of essence that must be committed if not for the Long Powerbow, which states that it needs to have seven motes committed while it's cost is 6. I don't think that the cost means for your Resource value, as several have a cost of 6, an amount of Resource which is unattainable. So what do "Cost" and "Attune" mean? I cannot find the answer anywhere either in the book or online.

2. Since Movement is a reflexive action with a speed of 0, can you technically move every tick?

3. Is opening a door, pushing a box, unfastening a necklace, and the like all considered miscellaneous actions? (I assume so)

I may have a few more questions. Thanks in advance!

Malek
2010-12-16, 06:08 PM
1. When looking at the artifacts, namely the weapons, there are several values. I don't know what the "Attune" number represents, nor do I know what the "Cost" dots mean. I'd assume that the latter was the amount of essence that must be committed if not for the Long Powerbow, which states that it needs to have seven motes committed while it's cost is 6. I don't think that the cost means for your Resource value, as several have a cost of 6, an amount of Resource which is unattainable. So what do "Cost" and "Attune" mean? I cannot find the answer anywhere either in the book or online.
Cost is the number of dots in Artifact background you need to have. So to have three-dot artifact you need three dot Artifact background. If you want more than one artifact you need to take the background more than one time.

Attune is the number of essence motes that you need to "commit" to get the benefits provided by the item. More detailed info is on page 380 under "The cost of power" header.


2. Since Movement is a reflexive action with a speed of 0, can you technically move every tick?
I might be wrong, but I believe that this is indeed the intent.

Welknair
2010-12-16, 06:20 PM
Thank you much! I should have thought of the "Cost"... I didn't realize it matched the "Artifact" number by the name.

As for the attunement being the essence cost, what about the Long Powerbow? It's description says 7 essence committed, while it's attune is only 6. :smallconfused:

WalkingTarget
2010-12-16, 06:20 PM
I don't know if the official Errata has ever addressed the discrepancy between the stat block and text description for the attunement cost for a long powerbow, though.

Malek
2010-12-16, 06:40 PM
Scroll of Errata mentions Attune for Long Powerbow as being 6 (interestingly not because of description, but because cost and attune are switched for powerbows) so it seems that's the correct attune vaule.

Welknair
2010-12-16, 06:49 PM
Hmm. Thank you, that helps quite a lot.

Oh, what magical material are Infernals linked to? The four celestial exalted each have their own, then there's jade for the DB and Alchemicals choose one which they are made out of. So what about Infernals?

WalkingTarget
2010-12-16, 06:56 PM
Hmm. Thank you, that helps quite a lot.

Oh, what magical material are Infernals linked to? The four celestial exalted each have their own, then there's jade for the DB and Alchemicals choose one which they are made out of. So what about Infernals?

If I'm remembering right, they use Vitriol (a magical acid) to corrupt any of the other magical materials to be suitable for their use.

Mr.Bookworm
2010-12-16, 06:56 PM
Hmm. Thank you, that helps quite a lot.

Oh, what magical material are Infernals linked to? The four celestial exalted each have their own, then there's jade for the DB and Alchemicals choose one which they are made out of. So what about Infernals?

They don't have one naturally. Infernal Artifacts aren't usually made out of a magical material.


If I'm remembering right, they use Vitriol (a magical acid) to corrupt any of the other magical materials to be suitable for their use.

They can also do this, too. You can corrupt a magic material, and then an Infernal who attunes to it gets the benefit of the material bonus.

Welknair
2010-12-16, 07:24 PM
Say you wanted to simply lie to someone. What type of roll would that be? Does that use Social Combat? If so, what ability do you use? (Obviously Manipulation is used)

Tengu_temp
2010-12-16, 07:32 PM
Manipulation + Presence/Socialize, depending on the situation. If it's just a single lie then there's no need for social combat, because social combat is for when you start a longer conversation in order to persuade the other party to do something.

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-16, 09:14 PM
You don't really have a roll for lying. It's more like a defense ((Manipulation + Socialize) / 2, to be exact), against which others roll to see whether you're lying or not.

Welknair
2010-12-17, 01:36 AM
You don't really have a roll for lying. It's more like a defense ((Manipulation + Socialize) / 2, to be exact), against which others roll to see whether you're lying or not.

Huh. Where would it say that? And would that just be a Perception+Investigation roll?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-17, 01:37 AM
Huh. Where would it say that? And would that just be a Perception+Investigation roll?

Under Reading Motivation in the Drama & Systems chapter, Social stuff. It's not covered under social combat.

Welknair
2010-12-17, 01:46 AM
Thank you much! That actually helps quite a deal.


How do the Tiers figure into Exalted? Does the concept even apply? Seeing as there is a deal of dissonance between the various types of Exalted, there should be some sort of tier system there. Are Twilights tier 1's while the Dawn's are down at 5? Then again, the Dawn could have Occult as a favored. So how does the tier system work with Exalted, if at all?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-17, 01:49 AM
Solars, Abyssals and Green Sun Princes are Tier 1.
Lunars and Sidereals are Tier 2 (assuming their errata gets here soon).
Alchemicals are Tier 3.
Terrestrials are Tier 4.
Spirits, Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk and raksha are Tier 5.
A random rock you can find lying around which isn't even really sapient is Tier 6.
Mortals are Tier 7.

golentan
2010-12-17, 01:50 AM
Solars, Abyssals and Green Sun Princes are Tier 1.
Lunars and Sidereals are Tier 2 (assuming their errata gets here soon).
Alchemicals are Tier 3.
Terrestrials are Tier 4.
Spirits, Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk and raksha are Tier 5.
A random rock you can find lying around which isn't even really sapient is Tier 6.
Mortals are Tier 7.

Now that's just cruel. Rocks aren't above tier 7, only their least gods are. Give the mortals SOME credit.

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-17, 01:52 AM
Now that's just cruel. Rocks aren't above tier 7, only their least gods are. Give the mortals SOME credit.

Rocks have lethal soak, mortals don't.
Rocks get more health levels than mortals.
Rocks have hardness.
Rocks are never extras.

Advantage: rocks.

Welknair
2010-12-17, 01:59 AM
Rocks have lethal soak, mortals don't.
Rocks get more health levels than mortals.
Rocks have hardness.
Rocks are never extras.

Advantage: rocks.

You can't argue with the facts.

And again thank you.

How do you feel about the relative strengths of the various castes of Solar Exalted?

golentan
2010-12-17, 02:02 AM
Because as we all know, the way exalted combat works extra health levels and soak vastly increase your survivability more than additional ability points to do things like pump your DVs. And the extra rules (1/3 of damage dice autoconverts) are less forgiving than the inanimate object rules (all damage autoconverts).

Quit your damn exaggeration!

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-17, 02:06 AM
Because as we all know, the way exalted combat works extra health levels and soak vastly increase your survivability more than additional ability points to do things like pump your DVs. And the extra rules (1/3 of damage dice autoconverts) are less forgiving than the inanimate object rules (all damage autoconverts).

Quit your damn exaggeration!

Rocks are lighter and usually more aerodynamic than mortals, so I can toss them faster, which means you get a higher penalty for attacking them.

Advantage: rocks.

Let's face it, rocks get more advantages than extras. Heroic mortals are slightly above rocks, but they still don't get hardness and extra health levels. And lethal soak.

InaVegt
2010-12-17, 02:13 AM
You really need to split Raksha into Noble Raksha and Commoner raksha.

Commoner Raksha are way below spirits and mountainfolk, while Noble Raksha would probably be almost as powerful as Terrestrials, and as such qualify to be on the same tier just as you put the solaroids all on the same tier.

Tengu_temp
2010-12-17, 07:12 AM
How do you feel about the relative strengths of the various castes of Solar Exalted?

Eclipse and Pre-errata Dawn are a bit less useful than Zenith, Twilight and Night, because in most cases you won't use more than two of their caste abilities, and because there are very few concepts that fit Dawn/Eclipse and don't fit any other caste. But there's no tier system per se, because, mechanically, your caste barely means anything - only 5 out of 10 of your caste/favored abilities and your anima banner power special ability.

GrayWatch
2010-12-17, 08:44 PM
Unless he means the stratification of Solar/Abyssal/Infernal.

Which basically boils down to Solars are the best at everything, except murder, where abyssals have a slight edge. Infernals can outstrip solars, but only in pre-defined niche areas, and tend to need more charms to do it.

Welknair
2010-12-19, 11:12 AM
Interesting, thank you.


The Daiklave of Conquest is getting on my nerves. It has a listed Cost of 2 while the Artifact value is 5. It has an Attune of only 5 whilst the text says that 10 motes must be committed. In both cases, the higher value seems more appropriate, but the former just confuses me.

Two weapon fighting. There's a specialty for it, charms to make set pairs, artifacts that come in pairs, and the like. After a bit of searching I confirmed that the off-hand rule is still -1 on all die pools for things involving that hand. How does this apply to TWF? Why would you want to use your offhand if it's at a penalty? I assume to attack with both hands you'd need to make a flurry anyways, so the only difference is that if you do mainhand/offhand, the second is at a further -1 whereas mainhand/mainhand has only the normal penalties. So why would anyone want to Two Weapon Fight?

I'm getting the feeling that Exalted wasn't made for use with a combat grid. There are no references to such in the text, no explanations about what to do with diagonals, or any of that stuff. However, there are set speeds in increments that could be overlaid on a combat grid. But... 5 people can surround you. 3 in narrow spaces. What kind of grid would that be? Pentagonal? :/ So I thought of Mechwarriors and their movement. If you aren't familiar, it's a game where players have little mech miniatures duke it out on a battlefield. Everything is measured using a piece of string with set distances on it. This is used for movement, firing range, the and everything else. I was thinking that this may work for Exalted; having a string where 1 inch is about a yard and using that to show distances. The three and five seem reasonable when you're not on a grid...

No AoO's? Can't find rules for them anywhere. Missing something, or can my archer go nuts while surrounded?

Movement is reflexive. At what points can you move? Can you decide to move when someone declares they're attacking you, such that you are now out of range? I don't think so, but a little clarification would be nice.

Reynard
2010-12-19, 11:38 AM
Interesting, thank you.


The Daiklave of Conquest is getting on my nerves. It has a listed Cost of 2 while the Artifact value is 5. It has an Attune of only 5 whilst the text says that 10 motes must be committed. In both cases, the higher value seems more appropriate, but the former just confuses me.
Daiklave of Conquest is garbage for two reasons.
1: It's abilities aren't all that useful all the time. A five-dot artifact really should be.
2: It's best in Mass Combat. Mass Combat should be avoided like the Great Contagion.


Two weapon fighting. There's a specialty for it, charms to make set pairs, artifacts that come in pairs, and the like. After a bit of searching I confirmed that the off-hand rule is still -1 on all die pools for things involving that hand. How does this apply to TWF? Why would you want to use your offhand if it's at a penalty? I assume to attack with both hands you'd need to make a flurry anyways, so the only difference is that if you do mainhand/offhand, the second is at a further -1 whereas mainhand/mainhand has only the normal penalties. So why would anyone want to Two Weapon Fight?
Natural Weapons don't have an off-hand penalty.
The weapons best designed for TWF also specify that they don't suffer it either. TWF is till a sub-par choice for anyone not a Fire Dragon Immaculate, due to relying on Rate.

Or well, dual-wielding pistols and using Righteous Devil style.


I'm getting the feeling that Exalted wasn't made for use with a combat grid. There are no references to such in the text, no explanations about what to do with diagonals, or any of that stuff. However, there are set speeds in increments that could be overlaid on a combat grid. But... 5 people can surround you. 3 in narrow spaces. What kind of grid would that be? Pentagonal? :/ So I thought of Mechwarriors and their movement. If you aren't familiar, it's a game where players have little mech miniatures duke it out on a battlefield. Everything is measured using a piece of string with set distances on it. This is used for movement, firing range, the and everything else. I was thinking that this may work for Exalted; having a string where 1 inch is about a yard and using that to show distances. The three and five seem reasonable when you're not on a grid...

Yeah, that should work. Really, a lot of Exalted is abstractions, so just use whatever you feel works. You can probably get away with not using miniatures at all, and just make everything up on the fly.

As long as you're consistent, it works.


No AoO's? Can't find rules for them anywhere. Missing something, or can my archer go nuts while surrounded?

No AoOs. There are two actions that were added in Errata, one of which is sort of like an readied action. But yes, the archer can go nuts while surrounded. But due to not being able to parry, he won't last long if he does.


Movement is reflexive. At what points can you move? Can you decide to move when someone declares they're attacking you, such that you are now out of range? I don't think so, but a little clarification would be nice.

Movement is reflexive for them as well, so they can follow. Unless they're noticeably slower.

Welknair
2010-12-19, 11:41 AM
Why thank you, Reynard!

On the Daiklave, are we just saying that the numbers listed in the stat block are typos and to ignore them? (Along with ignoring the rest of it as it costs more than it's worth)

Reynard
2010-12-19, 11:46 AM
Why thank you, Reynard!

On the Daiklave, are we just saying that the numbers listed in the stat block are typos and to ignore them? (Along with ignoring the rest of it as it costs more than it's worth)

Ignore the Daiklaive of Conquest. It is stupid, ugly, and it's mother never loved it. But yes, if you do use it (don't), favor the text over the table.

On the other hand, do the opposite for Long Powerbows. Hell, reduce the Attune cost to 5. The Artifact bows are terribad compared to pretty much everything else.

MickJay
2010-12-19, 01:03 PM
With right charms, powerbows can be insanely good, especially if combined with sneak attack from long range (as many surprise negators have a limited range). On the other hand, if you're still trying to use them when the enemy can engage you in melee (or effectively attack you with thrown weapons), you're screwed.

Reynard
2010-12-19, 01:13 PM
With right charms, powerbows can be insanely good, especially if combined with sneak attack from long range (as many surprise negators have a limited range). On the other hand, if you're still trying to use them when the enemy can engage you in melee (or effectively attack you with thrown weapons), you're screwed.

Those charms also apply to Archery weapons that aren't bows (Such as all guns and essence-firing ones). Range is negated by the use of a first-in-the-tree Archery charm.

Bows suck, becuase of Speed 6.

TheCountAlucard
2010-12-19, 05:20 PM
Because as we all know, the way exalted combat works extra health levels and soak vastly increase your survivability more than additional ability points to do things like pump your DVs. And the extra rules (1/3 of damage dice autoconverts) are less forgiving than the inanimate object rules (all damage autoconverts).

Quit your damn exaggeration!But rocks also have immunity to social combat! :smallamused:

Not only that, but Abyssals don't regain motes from eating rocks, either. :smallbiggrin:

Drascin
2010-12-19, 05:47 PM
Those charms also apply to Archery weapons that aren't bows (Such as all guns and essence-firing ones). Range is negated by the use of a first-in-the-tree Archery charm.

Bows suck, becuase of Speed 6.

The fact that I need to use a Charm (and therefore spend Essence and use my one Charm per turn) to have greater range with a supposed ranged weapon than I would by throwing bullets barehanded never did much to endear me to Exalted's version of guns, personally. You wouldn't catch me dead with a plasmatongue repeater.

golentan
2010-12-19, 10:00 PM
The fact that I need to use a Charm (and therefore spend Essence and use my one Charm per turn) to have greater range with a supposed ranged weapon than I would by throwing bullets barehanded never did much to endear me to Exalted's version of guns, personally. You wouldn't catch me dead with a plasmatongue repeater.

This is what Prayer Pieces are for.

Arcanoi
2010-12-19, 11:06 PM
This is what Prayer Pieces are for.

Or stunts. Or most STs. I've yet to meet an ST who went "Okay, so you start 20m away from that guy, and thus you can't shoot him yet! Too bad!" As long as you aren't trying to snipe people from across town with them, most STs won't care.

Welknair
2010-12-27, 12:22 PM
Hello all! I had a great Christmas and received a stack of Exalted 2e books!

I got:
MoEP: Lunars, Infernals, DBs, Sidereals
CoTD: Scavenger Lands
Tome of Sorcery: Vol I and II
And the ST's companion


However, I do have some questions.


1. What makes a Green Sun Prince stronger/better than an akuma (who was already an exalt)? Akumas get access to the powers of their original exaltation in addition to a slew of new infernal charms (Those of their patron and sire), and they get Demonic Inheritance 5 and Demonic Patron 5 for free! That alone gives them a major power boost which GSP's don't get. Yeah Akuma don't have much in the way of free will, but if they were truly stronger, you'd think that would affect the hierarchy a bit. I can't even find reference stating that Infernals can get mutations... Akuma gain access to celestial martial arts (If they were DBs) as well as getting huge flexibility (Min/maxer?) in their build.

2. I was confused somewhat by the (Elemental) style formulation charm. Namely by the clause at the end stating that it was inferior to mastering the Glorious Dragon Styles. Wait, don't you need to master a style of the appropriate element to get the charm in the first place? I looked up the errata which at least clarified that mastering those styles removed the elemental surcharge of all charms of that element, but still, you need one to get the other it seems.

3. Given the Arcane Fate of the Sidereals, they have a number of odd side effects. Namely their forget-ability and they're ability to be easily overlooked. For the first, hopefully other Sidereals are immune to this. I could not find that information anywhere in the book, however. As for the second, people need to be continuously be making perception+awareness checks to see the sidereal, at difficulty 1 but a -3 internal penalty. Does this mean that someone with perception 2 and awareness 1 can never see a sidereal? I.e. the sidereal is invisible to them?

4. So we started with 300 Solars, 300 Lunars, and 100 Sidereals, correct? Then the Neverborn snagged a few escaping solar exaltations and turned them into the first Abyssal Exalted. I'd assume there were only 10 or so of these first abyssals. Then the Yozi's were inspired and formulated a plan and together with the Neverborn they broke open the jade prison and managed to grab half of the solars - 150. 100 went to the neverborn and 50 went to the Yozis. So now we have ~140 Solars, ~110 Abyssals, 50 Infernals, 300 Lunars, 100 Sidereals, and a whole slew of DBs. Correct?

So we're saying that the Lunars possess the most total power currently, given their numbers and relative power. What if they were to jointly invade creation? Of course this is hypothetically, but I thought that the differences in numbers was interesting.

5. So the solar's return... Was that entirely due to the jade prison being broken open by the Yozis, or did a few escape before then?

6. How much are STs expected to change the setting? Any examples of what you have done/ would do?

7. So the Yozis and Demons are in Malfeas, and the Neverborn/Deathlords are in the Underworld, right? Two different places? So the Underworld is a synonym for the Abyss? Because it's mentioned as such in the MoEP: Infernals when it says that the Ebon Dragon looked to the abyss and watched the neverborn...

7b. So do mortals (or their souls) ever go to Malfeas instead of the Underworld?

7c. Why was the Jade Prison kept with the evilest beings in existence? Who's idea was that?

8. They make a big deal about DBs being enlightened and being able to learn celestial martial arts. However, aside from Sidereal Martial Arts (Which I don't think the DBs can learn still), I can't find many styles that would benefit them better than their slew of Terrestrial Styles. Not to mention, wouldn't they think those styles were originally created by demons or something?

9. In the DB errata it says

Among Primordial Exalted, Alchemicals resonate with all six Autochthonian elements, Infernals resonate with Vitriol and Abyssals resonate with all corpse elements.
How does this apply to Martial Arts again? And what exactly are "Corpse Elements"?

10. Was anyone else slightly disturbed by the... complete description of the Twin Faced Hero Charm?

11. I found a reference in the Infernals book about how their Ability maximums are one greater than that of other exalted... or was it their essence? I remember reading it and was intrigued by it but for the life of me I can't find it again.

11.B. Nevermind! I found the section!

The trait cap for an akuma is one dot higher than it normally would be. Thus, an akuma with essence 1-5 can have up to six dots in a trait, while an akuma with essence 6 can go up to seven dots.
Firstly, that's another thing on the "Pros" side for Akuma. Second, wait, you're trait maximum increases with your essence? When did we get that?


12. A bit of quick math involving average encounters per level in DnD (13.333) and the amount of EXP commonly given to Exalted after an encounter (5, I believe), an Exalted gets ~67 EXP for each equivalent DnD level of play time. So I tried to make a "mid level" Exalted character. Yeah, that's a LOT of exp.

Anyways, if I were to start a group at a point in time slightly after their exaltations, as to, say, let the sorcerer learn some spells with their EXP, what EXP amount would be best suited for a power increase such to allow that but not make Exalted capable of killing the Unconquered Sun.

13. How do the 5 seasons sync up to our 4?

14. How does size affect combat? Is it just reflected in higher strength/stamina scores for larger creatures? What about the ability to more easily hit larger targets? I found no note of that in any of the books.

15. As far as Martial Arts ability and access goes, my understanding is as follows: All Exalted are capable of learning any terrestrial martial arts styles. All Exalted save for DBs can learn any Celestial Style, with the exception of the Sidereal Style. I know it's forbidden for the Sidereals to teach non-sidereals this style, but are other capable of learning? A bit of scattered information in the Infernals book under the Infernal Martial Arts section makes it seem as if others cannot naturally learn it, though I could not find that information in other books.

16. What's up with the clothing (or lack thereof) for pretty much all the females portrayed in any of the books?

16b. Does anyone else find it ironic that the Solar Twilight often depicted, a sorcerer, is wearing more clothes than many of the warrior-type Exalts?


I think that's it for now. Thanks!

Tavar
2010-12-27, 01:43 PM
3. Given the Arcane Fate of the Sidereals, they have a number of odd side effects. Namely their forget-ability and they're ability to be easily overlooked. For the first, hopefully other Sidereals are immune to this. I could not find that information anywhere in the book, however. As for the second, people need to be continuously be making perception+awareness checks to see the sidereal, at difficulty 1 but a -3 internal penalty. Does this mean that someone with perception 2 and awareness 1 can never see a sidereal? I.e. the sidereal is invisible to them?
I'm not sure where, but I believe that it mentions that those working for the Celestial Bureaucracy, as well as other Sidereals, are both immune to this.

4. So we started with 300 Solars, 300 Lunars, and 100 Sidereals, correct? Then the Neverborn snagged a few escaping solar exaltations and turned them into the first Abyssal Exalted. I'd assume there were only 10 or so of these first abyssals. Then the Yozi's were inspired and formulated a plan and together with the Neverborn they broke open the jade prison and managed to grab half of the solars - 150. 100 went to the neverborn and 50 went to the Yozis. So now we have ~140 Solars, ~110 Abyssals, 50 Infernals, 300 Lunars, 100 Sidereals, and a whole slew of DBs. Correct?

So we're saying that the Lunars possess the most total power currently, given their numbers and relative power. What if they were to jointly invade creation? Of course this is hypothetically, but I thought that the differences in numbers was interesting.
Umm....I don't think that's correct. In the Ursuption, all but about 15 solar shards were captured, most of those being night caste, but at least one(Bull of the North's shard) being Dawn. Later, the Ebon Dragon made a deal with the Neverborn; he'll tell them the location of the Jade Prison, as well as how to capture the shards. In return, they give him 50 of the shards that they capture(he thought that the Neverborn were going to fail really hard, so the 50 would have been all/most of the captured shards). The Neverborn managed to get 150, so we have 100 Abyssals, 50 infernals, 150 Solars, 100 Sidereals, and ~300 Lunars.

More Solar shards can be captured and turned into Abyssals(possibly infernals as well), but I don't think that's happened yet in canon. The Confusion on the lunar Shards is due to the fact that of the 300, some have fallen to Chimearism(at least one in canon, it's likely that there are more, though).

5. So the solar's return... Was that entirely due to the jade prison being broken open by the Yozis, or did a few escape before then?
Some hadn't been captured, which, along with hunting the Lunars, was the purpose of the Wyld Hunt. The majority didn't return until the Prison was broken.

6. How much are STs expected to change the setting? Any examples of what you have done/ would do?
It's your story. You can change it as much or as little as you like.

7. So the Yozis and Demons are in Malfeas, and the Neverborn/Deathlords are in the Underworld, right? Two different places? So the Underworld is a synonym for the Abyss? Because it's mentioned as such in the MoEP: Infernals when it says that the Ebon Dragon looked to the abyss and watched the neverborn...
I think the Abyss is more of a synonym for the Void or Oblivion.

7b. So do mortals (or their souls) ever go to Malfeas instead of the Underworld?

7c. Why was the Jade Prison kept with the evilest beings in existence? Who's idea was that?
Well, mortal Souls can also(and, by design), should go to the Lethe, the underworld is an unintened side effect of the Neverborn. I don't think mortal souls even go to Malfeas, except possibly Akuma or mortals killed in Malfeas.

It wasn't. It was sunk into the ocean floor around the Realm, and promptly forgotten about(due to the breaking of the mask, the same thing that gives the Sidereals their arcane fate).

8. They make a big deal about DBs being enlightened and being able to learn celestial martial arts. However, aside from Sidereal Martial Arts (Which I don't think the DBs can learn still), I can't find many styles that would benefit them better than their slew of Terrestrial Styles. Not to mention, wouldn't they think those styles were originally created by demons or something?
They can't learn Sidereal Martial Arts. MA have three tiers: Terrestial, Celestial, and Sidereal. Sidereal can only be learned by Sidereals/certain spirits naturally, though they can be taught to Solars/Abyssals by a Sidereal Tutor.

As for Celestial Martial Arts, there are the Immaculate styles, which give special benefits to DB's. Also, most Celestial Styles are supposed to be better than Terrestial ones. Can you give examples of the styles you're looking at?

Plus, there's the fact that not every DB follows the Immaculate religion.

9. In the DB errata it says

How does this apply to Martial Arts again? And what exactly are "Corpse Elements"?
I think for DB's it relates on whether or not they have to pay a one mote surcharge. Not sure about that.


10. Was anyone else slightly disturbed by the... complete description of the Twin Faced Hero Charm?
Not really. What do you mean?

11. I found a reference in the Infernals book about how their Ability maximums are one greater than that of other exalted... or was it their essence? I remember reading it and was intrigued by it but for the life of me I can't find it again.

11.B. Nevermind! I found the section!

Firstly, that's another thing on the "Pros" side for Akuma. Second, wait, you're trait maximum increases with your essence? When did we get that?
Core, page 275.


12. A bit of quick math involving average encounters per level in DnD (13.333) and the amount of EXP commonly given to Exalted after an encounter (5, I believe), an Exalted gets ~67 EXP for each equivalent DnD level of play time. So I tried to make a "mid level" Exalted character. Yeah, that's a LOT of exp.

Anyways, if I were to start a group at a point in time slightly after their exaltations, as to, say, let the sorcerer learn some spells with their EXP, what EXP amount would be best suited for a power increase such to allow that but not make Exalted capable of killing the Unconquered Sun.
Exalted doesn't track experience in the same way. You generally get 4 xp per session, with more being various bonus awards.

And Sorcerer's can learn spells with their starting charm allowance, though a common house rule gives one free spell with each sorcery initiation charm.

In any case, Exalted also gain xp if there's significant time between sessions. The chart that describes this is on page 275. I find that a good starting amount(one that gives some more options without giving enough that it overshadows their Chargen) is 25xp.

13. How do the 5 seasons sync up to our 4?
It talks about this on page 27 of the core book.

14. How does size affect combat? Is it just reflected in higher strength/stamina scores for larger creatures? What about the ability to more easily hit larger targets? I found no note of that in any of the books.


15. As far as Martial Arts ability and access goes, my understanding is as follows: All Exalted are capable of learning any terrestrial martial arts styles. All Exalted save for DBs can learn any Celestial Style, with the exception of the Sidereal Style. I know it's forbidden for the Sidereals to teach non-sidereals this style, but are other capable of learning? A bit of scattered information in the Infernals book under the Infernal Martial Arts section makes it seem as if others cannot naturally learn it, though I could not find that information in other books.
Right. I'm not sure where this is, but Solars/Abyssals can learn Sidereal Styles if they have a Sidereal Tutor. Also, some spirits can learn them.

Mortals are limited to Terrestial Styles as well.

16. What's up with the clothing (or lack thereof) for pretty much all the females portrayed in any of the books?

16b. Does anyone else find it ironic that the Solar Twilight often depicted, a sorcerer, is wearing more clothes than many of the warrior-type Exalts?


I think that's it for now. Thanks!
Fan service.

Arcanoi
2010-12-27, 01:58 PM
1. What makes a Green Sun Prince stronger/better than an akuma (who was already an exalt)? Akumas get access to the powers of their original exaltation in addition to a slew of new infernal charms (Those of their patron and sire), and they get Demonic Inheritance 5 and Demonic Patron 5 for free! That alone gives them a major power boost which GSP's don't get. Yeah Akuma don't have much in the way of free will, but if they were truly stronger, you'd think that would affect the hierarchy a bit. I can't even find reference stating that Infernals can get mutations... Akuma gain access to celestial martial arts (If they were DBs) as well as getting huge flexibility (Min/maxer?) in their build.


Akuma are stronger than GSPs. Akuma are amongst the most powerful beings in existence. Akuma DBs are essentially celestial Exalts. Akuma are designed to be NPCs, however, so the ST can tweak them to whatever role they need. Don't expect to have an experienced ST allow an Akuma PC.



10. Was anyone else slightly disturbed by the... complete description of the Twin Faced Hero Charm?


Some people like the concept.



12. A bit of quick math involving average encounters per level in DnD (13.333) and the amount of EXP commonly given to Exalted after an encounter (5, I believe), an Exalted gets ~67 EXP for each equivalent DnD level of play time. So I tried to make a "mid level" Exalted character. Yeah, that's a LOT of exp.


A Level 20 DnD character can conquer the world and challenge Gods and Demons. An Essence 10 Exalted Character can slap the Storyteller if he gets fresh. So, yeah.



Anyways, if I were to start a group at a point in time slightly after their exaltations, as to, say, let the sorcerer learn some spells with their EXP, what EXP amount would be best suited for a power increase such to allow that but not make Exalted capable of killing the Unconquered Sun.


25 or 50 EXP is a pretty good level to pick up a few more charms. You might also want to check out the games recruiting down in the Finding Players section to look at their house rules.

Tengu_temp
2010-12-27, 02:12 PM
16. What's up with the clothing (or lack thereof) for pretty much all the females portrayed in any of the books?

It's a fantasy RPG. What else needs to be said?

Welknair
2010-12-27, 04:32 PM
I did not realize that the Glorious Dragon Styles were Celestial, though I found where it says that now. That makes a deal more sense now.

The Yozi plan was originally made after the Ebon Dragon saw the Neverborn make the first Abyssals. As such, those abyssals must have come from the remaining solars. As you said, there was about fifteen solars remaining, and thus my estimation of around 10 Abyssals pre-jade prison-break was close.

I did not know that you could choose spells in place of charms at character creation. Thanks.

So we have Creation (with it's various parts and boarders), Yu-Shan, Malfeas, the Underworld, and The Abyss/Oblivion/Void? Where exactly are the Deathlords? My understanding was that the Deathlords were in the Underworld while the Neverborn were referred to as being in the Abyss. Yet I thought that they were the same group of dead yozis. What am I missing?

Only the Five Glorious Dragon Styles and the other DB styles have elemental surcharges, right?

So if the Akuma are so much stronger, why does it say pretty clearly that the Akuma are below the Infernal Exalted in station? If anything, wouldn't it be the other way around?

And are the Infernal Exalted allowed to take Demonic Mutations?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 04:38 PM
Deathlords are the mad ghosts of Solars who died in the Usurpation or just before and were given power by the soul scraps of the Neverborn. They are not dead Primordials.

EDIT: Also, no one is in the Abyss. The Abyss devours everything except for Exaltations it comes into contact with. The Neverborn themselves want to dive into it, but their descent is blocked by Creation, so they hang around in the Labyrinth, having nightmares of eternal untold suffering until someone destroys Creation.

Welknair
2010-12-27, 04:42 PM
They are not dead Primordials.

Ah! So the Neverborn are the dead Primordials and they empowered crazy solars, turning them into the Deathlords. Then the Neverborn and their Deathlord Minions went about making the Abyssal Exalted to serve the Deathlords. That makes more sense.

Malfeas: Yozis/Infernals/Akuma/Demonblooded
Underworld: Deathlords/Abyssals/Ghosts(and the like)
Abyss/Void/Oblivion: Neverborn. Complete nothing.

Am I correct?

Edit Response:


EDIT: Also, no one is in the Abyss. The Abyss devours everything except for Exaltations it comes into contact with. The Neverborn themselves want to dive into it, but their descent is blocked by Creation, so they hang around in the Labyrinth, having nightmares of eternal untold suffering until someone destroys Creation.
But the MoEP: Infernals makes it pretty clear that the Neverborn were in the Abyss...

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 04:45 PM
Between the Underworld and the Void, there is a place carved by the murmurs of the Neverborn called the Labyrinth. That's where the Neverborn's tombs lie, not the Abyss. Nothing really exists in the Abyss, since it tends to destroy all existence it touches.

Also, not crazy Solars, but ghosts of crazy Solars. There is a huge difference (for starters, the lack of an Exaltation in the latter).

TheCountAlucard
2010-12-27, 04:46 PM
But the MoEP: Infernals makes it pretty clear that the Neverborn were in the Abyss...Well, they're hanging right over the mouth of it, yeah. Perhaps they were using figurative language there?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 04:47 PM
But the MoEP: Infernals makes it pretty clear that the Neverborn were in the Abyss...

I could say a few choice words about the Infernals book, but it basically boils down to "read the Abyssals book and the Underworld book if you want to learn about the Abyssals and their current masters".

Welknair
2010-12-27, 04:57 PM
Thank you, that helps to clear things up.

Ooh, several Alchemicals books on Amazon! (When I was looking before there was only two, each costing at least $115). Abyssals and Alchemicals are my next books to buy. =D

Too bad Dreams of the First Age is so darn expensive... I want to be able to read the Old Realm in Keychain of Creation!
Spent two days learning the Old Realm Lessons from the internet before realizing it wasn't correct... *grumblegrumblegrumble*

So since the Deathlords are deceased Solars, the Solar Exaltations get to be reused still, instead of being stuck with the Deathlords. As such, the number of deathlords does not count against the 300 Solar(or not) exaltations.


So the cosmology of Exalted is a little like:

Yu-Shan
Creation
Underworld Malfeas
Labyrinth
Abyss


How did the Yozis and Neverborn break the Jade Prison if it was in Creation while they were in Malfeas and the Labyrinth?


Edit: I don't believe I got an answer to


2. I was confused somewhat by the (Elemental) style formulation charm. Namely by the clause at the end stating that it was inferior to mastering the Glorious Dragon Styles. Wait, don't you need to master a style of the appropriate element to get the charm in the first place? I looked up the errata which at least clarified that mastering those styles removed the elemental surcharge of all charms of that element, but still, you need one to get the other it seems.

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 05:01 PM
The Yozis told the Neverborn (somehow - I don't pretend to know how the Neverborn work) about the Jade Prison. Then, the Neverborn whispered to the Deathlords about the Jade Prison, who in turn created a behemoth that cracked the Jade Prison open and collected about half the Exaltations trapped within (slightly more than half, but who's keeping count).

Welknair
2010-12-27, 05:03 PM
The Yozis told the Neverborn (somehow - I don't pretend to know how the Neverborn work) about the Jade Prison. Then, the Neverborn whispered to the Deathlords about the Jade Prison, who in turn created a behemoth that cracked the Jade Prison open and collected about half the Exaltations trapped within (slightly more than half, but who's keeping count).

You'd think that they could have devised something more sophisticated than a behemoth to trap the escaping Exaltations... Some sort of giant net? Or at least another couple behemoths... I assume that this is more extensively covered in the Abyssals book...

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 05:05 PM
If the Deathlords did not succeed too well in creating the behemoth, they would have gotten all the Exaltations. The problem was that they made it too strong, so the Jade Prison shattered wider than expected, which let a lot of Exaltations slip the jaws of the behemoth.

Tavar
2010-12-27, 05:08 PM
I could say a few choice words about the Infernals book, but it basically boils down to "read the Abyssals book and the Underworld book if you want to learn about the Abyssals and their current masters".
From what I've ready, it's pretty clear that that statement is being figurative.



So the cosmology of Exalted is a little like:

Yu-Shan
Creation
Underworld Malfeas
Labyrinth
Abyss

Not quite. It's more like...

Elsewhere-
Autochon
Malfeas


The Wyld and Creation
-Yu-Shan

Underworld
Labyrinth
Abyss

Welknair
2010-12-27, 05:11 PM
Elsewhere-
Autochon
Malfeas


The Wyld and Creation
-Yu-Shan

Underworld
Labyrinth
Abyss

Wait, as in the Wyld and Creation are above Yu-Shan? I always got the impression that Yu-Shan, as the home of the gods, was the higher of the two...

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 05:13 PM
It is difficult to map Exalted's cosmology onto a three-dimensional map, let alone a two-dimensional one, since Yu-Shan, the Underworld, the Wyld and Creation itself pretty much cover the entire three-dimensional space in such a map, leaving Elsewhere, Malfeas, Autochthon and the Labyrinth in the fourth dimension.

Welknair
2010-12-27, 05:24 PM
Huh, I guess I can live with that explanation.

Question 2 still would like an answer...


Also:
So each Lunar has a Solar mate, right? They aren't necessarily required to be... mates, but it's very common and was probably intended. Well, are Exaltations tied to a specific gender (I don't think so), and if they are not, what happens when the Solar and Lunar happen to be the same gender? And this is another case where the Twin-Faced Hero charm is really disturbing...

Does someone have a list of the various official styles?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 05:26 PM
So each Lunar has a Solar mate, right? They aren't necessarily required to be... mates, but it's very common and was probably intended. Well, are Exaltations tied to a specific gender (I don't think so), and if they are not, what happens when the Solar and Lunar happen to be the same gender? And this is another case where the Twin-Faced Hero charm is really disturbing...

Exaltations are not tied to specific sexes, no. In fact, there are various examples in canon that clearly indicate otherwise. If the Solar and Lunar are of the same sex, well, they react according to their personalities and sexualities, like normal people do. The Lunar just happens to have a generally positive reaction to the Solar.

Xefas
2010-12-27, 05:30 PM
Well, are Exaltations tied to a specific gender (I don't think so), and if they are not, what happens when the Solar and Lunar happen to be the same gender? And this is another case where the Twin-Faced Hero charm is really disturbing...

Exaltations are not tied to a specific gender. If a Solar and Lunar mate are the same gender, well, it's not exactly a mystery, is it? Either they're best buddies if they don't feel sexual attraction to their same gender, or if they do feel sexual attraction to their same gender, then they may, in fact, be lovers despite (gasp) having the same dangly parts. Or, hell, what would be so wrong with two people of compatible sexual orientation that have strong feelings for one another just having a platonic relationship? I know that isn't really explored in fiction very often, but it could happen.

And then you get into the fact that Exalted, if they live long enough, become unknowable transhuman creatures, and a bonded Solar and Lunar may define their relationship in terms that we mere humans may not be capable of comprehending.

Welknair
2010-12-27, 05:43 PM
Question 2 would still be useful.

I found a few lists of Styles. Is the Scroll of the Monk worth picking up?

And, just checking, martial arts, nor any other type of charm, have an elemental surcharge unless stated, right? And if it is stated, only DBs of the correct element or those with the correct Formulation can avoid the charge.

After thinking a bit, I think I answered 2 myself. I had originally thought that the styles were not quite as numerous as they are. There are many styles of each element, whereas I had thought there only to be the Five Glorious Dragon Styles and the Fivefold Dragon Style (being water), thus making the getting of the Formulation charm redundant, however, the formulation allows those who master other elemental styles to waive the charge without having to master the Five Glorious Dragon Styles.

Right?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 05:49 PM
Elemental Style Formulation requires only a Terrestrial Martial Art, which is weaker, cheaper and easier to learn than an Immaculate Style, which is Celestial. Thus, the latter give more benefits than the former.

((Ideally, at least. In practice, the power levels of the Immaculate Styles vary wildly as to be useless for any practical comparison.))

Welknair
2010-12-27, 06:04 PM
Okay, I think that's it for now. Thanks so much for your time!

Edit: I forgot something! The reason that the mastery of the Five Glorious Dragon Styles is said to be superior to simply learning a Formulation is that the mastery of one of these styles waives the elemental surcharge of all charms of that element, martial arts or not. However, I know of no other Exalted with normal charms requiring such a charm. As such, the mastery of one of those styles would only be better than the formulation if the learner was a DB or an Eclipse/Moonshadow/Fiend.

Welknair
2010-12-27, 09:15 PM
Hmm. The main Sidereal Style allows swords, staves, and knives to be used as martial weapons. Does this mean that as long as you have at least one of those charms, you can use your Martial Arts score instead of Melee when fighting with those weapons?

Welknair
2010-12-27, 11:19 PM
T-t-triple post!


Solars, Abyssals and Green Sun Princes are Tier 1.
Lunars and Sidereals are Tier 2 (assuming their errata gets here soon).
Alchemicals are Tier 3.
Terrestrials are Tier 4.
Spirits, Dragon Kings, Mountain Folk and raksha are Tier 5.
A random rock you can find lying around which isn't even really sapient is Tier 6.
Mortals are Tier 7.

It's been said that the Akuma are more powerful than the GSPs. As such, they would be above the tier 1. What about Solar Akuma?

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-28, 12:50 AM
It's been said that the Akuma are more powerful than the GSPs. As such, they would be above the tier 1. What about Solar Akuma?

Akuma are not more powerful than Green Sun Princes - intrinsically. Most of their power comes from their close relationship with their patron Yozi (since the Yozi knows the akuma will never do anything he is not programmed to do), which gives them a great amount of backing, but otherwise, they can access only one Yozi's Charms, which will always have gaping holes in it. A Green Sun Prince, on the other hand, has free will, so he has to prove himself worthy to the Yozis, but if he does, he gains a lot more than a mere akuma.

Arcanoi
2010-12-28, 12:57 AM
It's been said that the Akuma are more powerful than the GSPs. As such, they would be above the tier 1. What about Solar Akuma?

Akuma power is based on their already-existing power. Akuma Dragonbloods are Tier 2.5 or 3, depending on the Yozi. Akuma Lunars and Sidereals are likewise able to reach Tier 1 with Adorjan charms. Akuma Solars are just damn scary. Sure they're metaphysically weaker, incapable of GSP/Solar apotheosis, but they get access to even more awesome charms that have all their weaknesses covered by the Solar Charmset.

Welknair
2010-12-28, 12:32 PM
Question 2 would still be useful.
And, just checking, martial arts, nor any other type of charm, have an elemental surcharge unless stated, right? And if it is stated, only DBs of the correct element or those with the correct Formulation can avoid the charge.


[S]
Edit: I forgot something! The reason that the mastery of the Five Glorious Dragon Styles is said to be superior to simply learning a Formulation is that the mastery of one of these styles waives the elemental surcharge of all charms of that element, martial arts or not. However, I know of no other Exalted with normal charms requiring such a charm. As such, the mastery of one of those styles would only be better than the formulation if the learner was a DB or an Eclipse/Moonshadow/Fiend.

Hmm. The main Sidereal Style allows swords, staves, and knives to be used as martial weapons. Does this mean that as long as you have at least one of those charms, you can use your Martial Arts score instead of Melee when fighting with those weapons?

Still confused here.

Reynard
2010-12-28, 01:23 PM
Hmm. The main Sidereal Style allows swords, staves, and knives to be used as martial weapons. Does this mean that as long as you have at least one of those charms, you can use your Martial Arts score instead of Melee when fighting with those weapons?

Not at first, but once you learn the Form charm, yes.


Edit: I forgot something! The reason that the mastery of the Five Glorious Dragon Styles is said to be superior to simply learning a Formulation is that the mastery of one of these styles waives the elemental surcharge of all charms of that element, martial arts or not. However, I know of no other Exalted with normal charms requiring such a charm. As such, the mastery of one of those styles would only be better than the formulation if the learner was a DB or an Eclipse/Moonshadow/Fiend.

Is this a question or not?


Question 2 would still be useful.
And, just checking, martial arts, nor any other type of charm, have an elemental surcharge unless stated, right? And if it is stated, only DBs of the correct element or those with the correct Formulation can avoid the charge.

No, all DB charms have an elemental surcharge that needs to be paid, if the person using them is not of the same aspect as the charm.

Dodge charms, for example, are Fire. Awareness is Earth. Basically, check the Favoured Abilities of the different DB Aspects. All the ones favoured by an Aspect have that aspect.

Some charms explicitly don't have a surcharge, but I forget which.

As for Eclipse-analogues, they pay a 2-mote surcharge for using non-Solar charms, but don't pay the Aspect surcharge on top of that. Importantly, mastering the Immaculate styles doesn't remove the non-Solar charm surcharge from the rest of the DB charms.

Also remember that they can't learn non-Solar charms that boost Health Levels or Essence Pools.

Aquillion
2010-12-28, 02:01 PM
Akuma are stronger than GSPs. Akuma are amongst the most powerful beings in existence. Akuma DBs are essentially celestial Exalts. Akuma are designed to be NPCs, however, so the ST can tweak them to whatever role they need. Don't expect to have an experienced ST allow an Akuma PC.Not true. Akumas gain a ton of power upfront (as one writer for the game put it, if you sell your soul for power, you should at least get power out of the deal), but a DB Akuma is going to be weaker than a GSP in the long run due to having access to only one Yozi. A Lunar or Sidereal one will probably fall behind eventually.

A Solar Akuma is technically stronger than a GSP on paper, yeah. But there's a catch. The fact that Akuma sold their free wills is not just fluff. Akumas cannot disobey their Urge, period. This is not just a matter of losing your free will -- it's actually a gaping practical disadvantage. An Akuma must obey their Urge even when it is transparently stupid to do so. Even when doing so will obviously get them killed and accomplish nothing, they still gotta do it.

They're not characters, they're guided missiles. Once you know their Urge you can use it against them and they're generally screwed. Having all that power doesn't help them when they can't apply it intelligently, and their Urge means that they're often not going to be able to apply it intelligently.

gartius
2010-12-28, 02:25 PM
Hmm. The main Sidereal Style allows swords, staves, and knives to be used as martial weapons. Does this mean that as long as you have at least one of those charms, you can use your Martial Arts score instead of Melee when fighting with those weapons?

Assuming you mean Violet beirs style since Sidreals don't have a Sidreal hero style. yes you are correct. What it also means is that for all charms of violet beirs that state you must make an unarmed attack you can instead use your form weapons instead.

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-28, 02:26 PM
Assuming you mean Violet beirs style since Sidreals don't have a Sidreal hero style.

Well, obviously you haven't heard of Throne Shadow, which allows Sidereals to act from the shadow of the Solar's throne.

Xefas
2010-12-28, 02:42 PM
Well, obviously you haven't heard of Throne Shadow, which allows Sidereals to act from the shadow of the Solar's throne.

As opposed to Violet Bier of Sorrows, which allows them to drown their sorrows in violet beer.

Throne Shadow is actually one of my favorite things to come out of the Scroll of Errata. Although, it does have one great failing in my eyes. Shadow Fingers? Really? Could they not come up with a better term? Pawns? Puppets? Agents? Students? Something less awkward? And then the charm has to go out of its way to specifically state that "Shadow Fingers" is not a meta-term but is, in fact, the term that all Sidereals use in-game.

Reynard
2010-12-28, 02:44 PM
As opposed to Violet Bier of Sorrows, which allows them to drown their sorrows in violet beer.

Throne Shadow is actually one of my favorite things to come out of the Scroll of Errata. Although, it does have one great failing in my eyes. Shadow Fingers? Really? Could they not come up with a better term? Pawns? Puppets? Agents? Students? Something less awkward? And then the charm has to go out of its way to specifically state that "Shadow Fingers" is not a meta-term but is, in fact, the term that all Sidereals use in-game.

From this we conclude that Sidereals are egotistical.

Not big surprise.

Tavar
2010-12-28, 03:01 PM
Not at first, but once you learn the Form charm, yes.

Can't you also use them as MA weapons when using any of the charms? Or do you essentially have to use unarmed attacks until you get the form charm?

Reynard
2010-12-28, 03:03 PM
Can't you also use them as MA weapons when using any of the charms? Or do you essentially have to use unarmed attacks until you get the form charm?

When actually using the charms, yes, but otherwise, no.

Welknair
2010-12-28, 04:48 PM
Is this a question or not?

It's a statement/hypothesis which I would like confirmed or corrected.



Not at first, but once you learn the Form charm,
No, all DB charms have an elemental surcharge that needs to be paid, if the person using them is not of the same aspect as the charm.

Dodge charms, for example, are Fire. Awareness is Earth. Basically, check the Favoured Abilities of the different DB Aspects. All the ones favoured by an Aspect have that aspect.

Some charms explicitly don't have a surcharge, but I forget which.

As for Eclipse-analogues, they pay a 2-mote surcharge for using non-Solar charms, but don't pay the Aspect surcharge on top of that. Importantly, mastering the Immaculate styles doesn't remove the non-Solar charm surcharge from the rest of the DB charms.


I meant that, random MA styles don't by default have an element associated with them. I understand that all DB charms have an element, but I was wondering how that worked when they went to learn styles that did not.

And again, this combination means that the Formulations are just as good as mastering the Glorious Dragon Styles for the purpose of waiving the elemental cost of charms for non-DBs as the only elemental charms they'd be using would be MA charms.

As for the Eclipse and their cousins, they don't incur the 2 mote penalty when using Elemental Styles, as styles aren't really specific to a particular type of Exalt, right?

Reynard
2010-12-28, 05:02 PM
It's a statement/hypothesis which I would like confirmed or corrected. Learning the whole style would be better if the learner was a DB. Eclipse-analogues wouldn't benefit at all.


I meant that, random MA styles don't by default have an element associated with them. I understand that all DB charms have an element, but I was wondering how that worked when they went to learn styles that did not. Some styles do, actually. But for the ones that don't, there are no elemental surcharges.

Useful Martial Arts Link. (http://www.brilliantdisaster.net/dif/ExaltedMA.html)
As for the Eclipse and their cousins, they don't incur the 2 mote penalty when using Elemental Styles, as styles aren't really specific to a particular type of Exalt, right?
Correct.

gartius
2010-12-28, 06:16 PM
Well, obviously you haven't heard of Throne Shadow, which allows Sidereals to act from the shadow of the Solar's throne.

no, no i had not. thanks for pointing it out ^^ surprised it doesnt have a prayer strip effect to it.

Welknair
2010-12-28, 07:15 PM
When you commit essence, which pool does it come from?

Reynard
2010-12-28, 07:18 PM
Whichever you want it to.

Committing from Peripheral only flares your anima for as long as it would normally, it will die down after a time. Use Personal it you're attuning to a weapon under the noses of some enemies and don't want to be noticed, but find some time to switch the committed motes from Personal to Peripheral, because Personal motes are more valuable.