Sorcerer Spell Selection

[Rasman]

I'm having to throw together a character for a campaign this weekend and I grabbed a character I had been working on that was lower level and upped him up to 16th level, up from like...8th...

I only had picked up to 4th level spells.

This is my spell list thus far.

0-Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hand, Ray of Frost, Ghost Sound, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Launch Bolt, Message

1-True Strike, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Orb of Sound, Lesser, Feather Fall

2-Invisibility, Ray of Ice, Cloud of Knives, Eagle's Splendor, Glitterdust

3-Acid Breath, Rainbow Blast, Protection From Energy, Major Image

4-Greater Invisibility, Enervation, Illusory Wall, Solid Fog

5-Hungry Pit, Cloudkill, Hold Monster, Greater Blink

6-True Seeing, Contagious Flame, Getaway

7-Arcane Spellsurge, Greater Teleport

8-Prismatic Wall

9-

The build is Spellthief1/Sorcerer4/Unseen Seer2/Spellwarp Sniper5/Arcane Trickster4

This is a Bond Type Character albeit a Tiefling, mostly a Suave Secret Agent like focus. Looking for spells I can turn into Rays and utility spells that help with evasiveness.

Any suggestions to "woah, you don't have THAT" would be awesome.

[Wings of Peace]

For one of your 7th level slots I HIGHLY recommend Arcane Spellsurge from Dragon Magic (pg. 64) along side the metamagic feat Invisible Spell from Cityscape (pg. 61).

Arcane Spellsurge has a duration of 1 round/caster level and bumps the casting speed of all of your spells up a notch (with some wonkyness for spells that take longer than 1 Full Round action. So casting time wise: 1 Full Round -> 1 Standard, 1 Standard -> 1 Swift, 1 Swift -> still 1 swift.

This combines well with Invisible Spell because Invisible Spell has a level adjustment of 0 but being a metamagic will make your spells take a Full Round action to cast thus allowing you a large degree of control over your action economy.

Other than that I personally am also fond of the Arcane Fusion/Greater Arcane Fusion line of spells (found in Complete Mage) if only because more options are ALWAYS a good thing for a Sorcerer.

[Tyndmyr]

You have invisibility at both 2 and 4. I presume you mean greater invisibility. Dump the earlier version.

You want: Some method of flight. Whichever slot is open, really. Wings of Cover. Wings of Flurry. Greater Dispel. Arcane Fusion or it's greater cousin are options if you want nova ability.

Greater Mage hand is a decent level 1 option, if the 5 lb limit on mage hand is an issue. Boosts it to 15. Situational, but probably fits the char.

Alter Self is also amazing.

[Draz74]

Some method of flight. Whichever slot is open, really.

Note that one of your options is Phantom Steed. I tend to prefer it over Fly or Overland Flight, for a high-level Sorcerer.

It's unfortunate that it can be shot out from under you, yes, but hopefully that should be a rarity -- get off your Steed and ignore it when you fight in tight quarters, and your opponents will probably ignore it too; in more open terrain, use the Steed's awesome move speed to make sure neither you nor it are practical targets for your opponents' attacks. (Wear a Ring of Feather Falling just in case.)

In return for these drawbacks, the spell lasts hours/level like Overland Flight, can be used on your party members like Fly, and has a way higher speed than either of them.

[Rasman]

For one of your 7th level slots I HIGHLY recommend Arcane Spellsurge from Races of the Dragon (pg. 64) along side the metamagic feat Invisible Spell from Cityscape (pg. 61).

Arcane Spellsurge has a duration of 1 round/caster level and bumps the casting speed of all of your spells up a notch (with some wonkyness for spells that take longer than 1 Full Round action. So casting time wise: 1 Full Round -> 1 Standard, 1 Standard -> 1 Swift, 1 Swift -> still 1 swift.

This combines well with Invisible Spell because Invisible Spell has a level adjustment of 0 but being a metamagic will make your spells take a Full Round action to cast thus allowing you a large degree of control over your action economy.

Other than that I personally am also fond of the Arcane Fusion/Greater Arcane Fusion line of spells (found in Complete Mage) if only because more options are ALWAYS a good thing for a Sorcerer.

I think you mean Dragon Magic and...frickin...awesome...sauce...I only get two...but that might make the cut

[Tyndmyr]

Excellent point. I use that spell quite a lot myself.

If you find yourself with a strong desire for more low level spells than you have slots, I strongly suggest investing in Eternal wands. 2/charges a day for life. Good options on hr/lvl spells or longer. It's an easy way for a sorcerer to economically cover the bases on the stuff you gotta have so you've got room for interesting things.


On the higher level, I have a weakness for prismatic wall. It's just great to throw up a giant wall of "no". Especially when it's an invisible wall of no that does horrible, horrible things to whoever walks into it.

Reverse Gravity is a fantastic spell as well. Optimal? Not really. But damn stylish, and a creative mind can come up with all sorts of uses.

True Seeing is also great.

[Wings of Peace]

I think you mean Dragon Magic and...frickin...awesome...sauce...I only get two...but that might make the cut

Ha ha, yeah it's Dragon Magic. Finals season has my brain all jumbled. *Edits his earlier post*

[Rasman]

Excellent point. I use that spell quite a lot myself.

If you find yourself with a strong desire for more low level spells than you have slots, I strongly suggest investing in Eternal wands. 2/charges a day for life. Good options on hr/lvl spells or longer. It's an easy way for a sorcerer to economically cover the bases on the stuff you gotta have so you've got room for interesting things.


On the higher level, I have a weakness for prismatic wall. It's just great to throw up a giant wall of "no". Especially when it's an invisible wall of no that does horrible, horrible things to whoever walks into it.

Reverse Gravity is a fantastic spell as well. Optimal? Not really. But damn stylish, and a creative mind can come up with all sorts of uses.

True Seeing is also great.

Prismatic Wall has a special place in my heart as well and taunting with an Invisible one in front of you is just plain awesome. Although I'm torn between it and Mind Blank since MB foils "See Invisibility" creatures and casters.

The only thing I haven't figured out how to counter is True Seeing though...I'm working on it though...

[Boci]

Celerity is a pretty popular spell for sorcerors, and without daze immunity it isn't cheesy. There's also ruin delver's fortune which gives a buff to 1 save for a short duration, but it is an immediate action.

[JeminiZero]

I would probably try to get one of the image series of spells (silent, minor or major). You also don't seem to have a way to see invisible foes, or Glitterdust to highlight said foes so that the fighter can start whacking him.

I'd also get at least one of the energy resistance spells (Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, and Energy Immunity).

Level 1:
*Featherfall: Because sometimes a trapdoor opens underneath your party, or your phantom steed got shot out from under you, and you don't want to waste a casting of (mass) fly.
*Summon Component: If you don' have Eschew Materials, and have nothing better to learn, this little nugget keeps you from being crippled when you're stripped and thrown into jail.
*True Casting: Since caster level doesn't affect anything, get this in a wand. Stacks with Assay Resistance.

Level 2:
*Glitterdust: No SR Save or Blind. As mentioned above, also great for breaching invis.
*See Invisible: So you know where to drop your glitterdust. Get this if you have no other means of detecting invisible (items, blindsense/sight).
*Ray of Stupidity: Useful one shotting low-int types like animals and magical beasts.
*Alter Self: is powerful, so much that its widely considered cheese- ask your DM.

Level 3: At such high levels You'll want Greater Dispel Magic to start fighting off enemy casters. Basic Dispel magic just doesn't cut it anymore, so you might want to swap it out for something else.
*Magic Circle Against X- (where X depends on who your likely foes are) Very useful for hedging out summoned creatures and mind control. Just stand near/cast on the weak-willed fighter, and the BBEG can't dominate him anymore. Combine multiple castings with a lesser rod of extend metamagic and you can even keep it running the whole adventuring day.
*Unluck/Slow: Will targetting save or suck.
*Phantom Steed: Faster than overland flight, at the risk of getting it shot out. But see Shadow Conjuration on level 4.
*Heart of Water: Freedom of movement for mages.

Level 4:
*Shadow Conjuration: Has all sorts of utility. Use it to get yourself a Phantom Steed, or fake Greater Mage Armor and Magic Tattoo without the expensive material components. Don't have see invisibility? Summon a dire bat, and get it to point out your unseen foe with its blindsense.
*Solid Fog: No Save, no SR Battlefield control that works well even at high levels.
*Assay Resistance: Because being able to overcome SR is good.
*Heart of Earth: Stoneskin without the expensive diamon dust.
*Polymorph: See Alter Self.

Level 5:
*Overland Flight: If you have no other means of flying.
*Mass Fly: So that the Fighter and Cleric can reach the BBEG flying around on his zombie dragon. Or so that you can all run away.
*Wall of Force: Not as impressive as Prismatic Wall, but almost as impassable, save for the occasional monster with disintegrate. Unlike Prismatic Wall, it is effective against monsters with Magic Immunity or unbeatable SR.

Level 6:
*Greater Dispel Magic as mentioned above.
*True Seeing: Expensive, but sometimes necessary.
*Freezing Fog: Upgraded Solid Fog.

Level 7:
*Polymorph Any Object: Again, see Alter Self.
*Stun Ray: No save stunning.
*Arcane Spellsurge: already mentioned above.

[Killer Angel]

I suggest to drop one of the 2 invisibility.
Then, you need Change Self (so many uses...), Fly OR Phantom steed, Greater dispel magic.

Grease is useful, and at least one teleport spell (dimension door?) and some spy spell (arcane eye? clarvoyance?).
Meh, also Tongue should serve the Secret agent Type.

Get at least one from see invisibility or true seeing.

[Ravens_cry]

Prismatic Wall has a special place in my heart as well and taunting with an Invisible one in front of you is just plain awesome. Although I'm torn between it and Mind Blank since MB foils "See Invisibility" creatures and casters.

The only thing I haven't figured out how to counter is True Seeing though...I'm working on it though...
Invisible Fog spell mayhap?

[Rasman]

Invisible Fog spell mayhap?

I thought about it, but...doesn't it just make it Fog you Can't see? Now if I knew that I could create a Fog that was Invisible that traveled with me that thwarted True Seeing, I'd be dancing all over it, but I just don't know how it would be ruled.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Two words: Custom Runestaff.

Talk to your DM about it. What theme might you fit, you ask? Elements! Heart of Elements, specifically. You can see where I'm going with this.

Also, invisible phantom steed. Harder to shoot it out if you don't know it's there.

[Strife Warzeal]

How invisible fog works is that it takes the fog and adds invisibility to it. True Seeing(Or anything like See Invisibility) sees through the invisibility and then they see the fog.
Then cast Invisibility(or Greater) on yourself and you are invisible to normal sight, and True Seeing.

Did that make any sense at all? Probably not :smalltongue:.

[Killer Angel]

For the equipment, don't forget partially charged wands!

(runs for cover)

[Rasman]

Two words: Custom Runestaff.

Talk to your DM about it. What theme might you fit, you ask? Elements! Heart of Elements, specifically. You can see where I'm going with this.

Also, invisible phantom steed. Harder to shoot it out if you don't know it's there.

lol...yeah, and with True Seeing, i always know where it's at


How invisible fog works is that it takes the fog and adds invisibility to it. True Seeing(Or anything like See Invisibility) sees through the invisibility and then they see the fog.
Then cast Invisibility(or Greater) on yourself and you are invisible to normal sight, and True Seeing.

Did that make any sense at all? Probably not :smalltongue:.

yes, but then why not just make it regular fog other than the fact that I'd be able to see though it just fine, assuming that I don't have True Seeing on myself at the time?

I think I just answered my own question...

I like Custom Runestaffs, I don't get to pick the gear though. I am asking for Sniper Goggles, though, since they duplicate the spell Sniper's Shot all the time.


Also updated my Spell List, I'm still torn on the spaces missing.

[JeminiZero]

Also updated my Spell List, I'm still torn on the spaces missing.

Presumably you completely missed my post?

[Rasman]

Presumably you completely missed my post?

lol...apparently...must have overlooked it or got distracted by a customer


I would probably try to get one of the image series of spells (silent, minor or major). You also don't seem to have a way to see invisible foes, or Glitterdust to highlight said foes so that the fighter can start whacking him.

I'd also get at least one of the energy resistance spells (Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, and Energy Immunity).

Level 1:
*Featherfall: Because sometimes a trapdoor opens underneath your party, or your phantom steed got shot out from under you, and you don't want to waste a casting of (mass) fly.
*Summon Component: If you don' have Eschew Materials, and have nothing better to learn, this little nugget keeps you from being crippled when you're stripped and thrown into jail.
*True Casting: Since caster level doesn't affect anything, get this in a wand. Stacks with Assay Resistance.

Level 2:
*Glitterdust: No SR Save or Blind. As mentioned above, also great for breaching invis.
*See Invisible: So you know where to drop your glitterdust. Get this if you have no other means of detecting invisible (items, blindsense/sight).
*Ray of Stupidity: Useful one shotting low-int types like animals and magical beasts.
*Alter Self: is powerful, so much that its widely considered cheese- ask your DM.

Level 3: At such high levels You'll want Greater Dispel Magic to start fighting off enemy casters. Basic Dispel magic just doesn't cut it anymore, so you might want to swap it out for something else.
*Magic Circle Against X- (where X depends on who your likely foes are) Very useful for hedging out summoned creatures and mind control. Just stand near/cast on the weak-willed fighter, and the BBEG can't dominate him anymore. Combine multiple castings with a lesser rod of extend metamagic and you can even keep it running the whole adventuring day.
*Unluck/Slow: Will targetting save or suck.
*Phantom Steed: Faster than overland flight, at the risk of getting it shot out. But see Shadow Conjuration on level 4.
*Heart of Water: Freedom of movement for mages.

Level 4:
*Shadow Conjuration: Has all sorts of utility. Use it to get yourself a Phantom Steed, or fake Greater Mage Armor and Magic Tattoo without the expensive material components. Don't have see invisibility? Summon a dire bat, and get it to point out your unseen foe with its blindsense.
*Solid Fog: No Save, no SR Battlefield control that works well even at high levels.
*Assay Resistance: Because being able to overcome SR is good.
*Heart of Earth: Stoneskin without the expensive diamon dust.
*Polymorph: See Alter Self.

Level 5:
*Overland Flight: If you have no other means of flying.
*Mass Fly: So that the Fighter and Cleric can reach the BBEG flying around on his zombie dragon. Or so that you can all run away.
*Wall of Force: Not as impressive as Prismatic Wall, but almost as impassable, save for the occasional monster with disintegrate. Unlike Prismatic Wall, it is effective against monsters with Magic Immunity or unbeatable SR.

Level 6:
*Greater Dispel Magic as mentioned above.
*True Seeing: Expensive, but sometimes necessary.
*Freezing Fog: Upgraded Solid Fog.

Level 7:
*Polymorph Any Object: Again, see Alter Self.
*Stun Ray: No save stunning.
*Arcane Spellsurge: already mentioned above.

I've considered Featherfall, but I'm not totally worried about it. Might fill that last spot, but I could just get a ring and save a spell.

I'm a Sorcerer, don't need material components :D

Not sure/can't find True Casting, what's it do exactly and what book is it from?

Glitterdust/See Invisible: See Trueseeing

Ray of Stupidity is tempting, but...too situational for me. I'll think about it considering how smart Trolls are...

Alter Self isn't nearly as good as it was in Pathfinder and I'm playing a Tiefling, so I already get Darkvision and the best I get out of it is Scent and a +2 to Str or Dex. I can see the out of combat perks and it can be persisted. More tempting than the other suggestions.

I thought about Magic Circle spells, I get Against Good as a free spell from my bloodline. Law or Chaos might be the second I'd take. The funny thing is that we don't really have a weak willed fighter...or a tank...it's pretty redunculous. I also just don't have a clue what we'll be facing. Law is sounding tempting...

I like Unluck better than Slow...I think...not sure...will consider it...

I've almost decided against the Steed as much as I like it just because other options are awesome...but Invisible Steed...GAH...this is the only thing I hate about Sorcerers...

I can't find Heart of Water...book?

Solid Fog is a Def Possibility

Assay Resistance is also tempting...not sure how often I'll encounter SR, but if I do, I have Arcane Blast as a Feat, it ignores SR, so not worried with this.

Heart of Earth: again...what book, SC?

Greater Dispel Magic...eh...good, but I'm not confident about it...my dispel rolls tend to be bad...

Stun Ray...you have my attention, what book?

[JeminiZero]

Heart of X and True Casting are in Complete Mage

Stun Ray is in Spell compendium, listed as "Stun Ray" rather than "Ray of Stun".

[Runestar]

If you take slow, consider heighten spell as well, otherwise the save dc won't be too spectacular.

Also, with your build, I am seeing only a spellcaster lv of 15, so you shouldn't be able to access 8th lv spells. :smallconfused:

[Raging Gene Ray]

Glitterdust/See Invisible: See Trueseeing

But what about NON-magical invisibility? Glitterdust is the bane of Shadowdancers. Also, YOU may have True Seeing, but what about the rest of your party? The save or be blinded always seemed like a nice bonus on top of the main, unavoidable effect.



The only thing I haven't figured out how to counter is True Seeing though...I'm working on it though...

A good old-fashioned MUNDANE hide/disguise check.

There's also a 2nd level spell called Disguise Alignment from Magic of Ebberon. It not only hides your alignment, but projects a false one. Good for making perfect disguises against Outsiders.

[Rasman]

If you take slow, consider heighten spell as well, otherwise the save dc won't be too spectacular.

Also, with your build, I am seeing only a spellcaster lv of 15, so you shouldn't be able to access 8th lv spells. :smallconfused:

Master Spellthief - Spellthief and caster levels stack to determine what level of spells I have access to/can steal/their DCs


But what about NON-magical invisibility? Glitterdust is the bane of Shadowdancers. Also, YOU may have True Seeing, but what about the rest of your party? The save or be blinded always seemed like a nice bonus on top of the main, unavoidable effect.



A good old-fashioned MUNDANE hide/disguise check.

There's also a 2nd level spell called Disguise Alignment from Magic of Ebberon. It not only hides your alignment, but projects a false one. Good for making perfect disguises against Outsiders.

you make a good point about Shadowdancers...our party is FULL of rogues...I'll be the 4th roguish character...should I need to off one, that'll be a GREAT spell

a must have now...

Ok, think I'm done now, thanks for the help

[Runestar]

Master Spellthief - Spellthief and caster levels stack to determine what level of spells I have access to/can steal/their DCs

Master spellthief only works for caster lv, not spellcaster lv.

So in your case, you would have a sorc lv of 15, and caster lv of 16.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Master Spellthief - Spellthief and caster levels stack to determine what level of spells I have access to/can steal/their DCs

I'm glade my advice about Glitterdust helped you, but I have to point out that's not what Master Spellthief does. It lets your Sorcerer and Spellthief levels stack for purposes of caster level and the spells you can steal as a Spellthief, not Sorcerer spells known.

[kme]

Well, looking at your current spell list, here is what I would drop.

lvl1: You don't really need true strike since it is so situational and cheap in a form of wand/scrolls. Take grease instead, especially since you have a full rogue party.

lvl2: Eagle's splendor is kind of useless at lvl 16.

lvl3: Rainbow blast is not particularly good. Fly would be my suggestion.

lvl4: Illusory wall is unneeded when you already have major image, solid fog and prismatic wall.

lvl5: Hold monster isn't particularly good. Since you probably won't use it too often you may just as well take Dominate instead.

lvl6: I see that you like true seeing but that spell is pretty situational, especially when you consider its material component. Take see invisibility instead and buy 2 scrolls of true seeing for those rare situations.