Language in D&D

[Sarakos]

This question has come up a bit in our sessions. The question is how do you learn new languages in D&D? I know you get a number of bonus languages equal to your Int modifier if positive, but I can't find any rules for learning languages after play. How long does it usually take? What resources if any do you need?

Specifically this question came up when our group decided to learn Draconic together so we can communicate with each other in a language nit many people are likely to understand. The DM houserulled that with the tutelage of our party sorceror who knew the language for at least an hour each day we would learn draconic in 6 game months.

I'm aware of the tongues spell but it generally doesn't las long enough and we usually play low to mid levels and can't permanency it without bankrupting the group. Anyway thanks for the suggestions and I'm open to others interpretations and houserules used for this, I'd just have to run it by the group and see if they all agree to it

Thanks in advance :D

[hewhosaysfish]

You learn languages by spending skill points. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/speakLanguage.htm)



The Speak Language skill doesn’t work like other skills. Languages work as follows.

* You start at 1st level knowing one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus.
* You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak.
* You don’t make Speak Language checks. You either know a language or you don’t.
* A literate character (anyone but a barbarian who has not spent skill points to become literate) can read and write any language she speaks. Each language has an alphabet, though sometimes several spoken languages share a single alphabet.


1 point per language if "Speak Language" is a class skill for you, 2 points per language if cross-class.

[JeenLeen]

I think, by RAW, you just need to level up so you have the skill points to purchase it, maybe with a week or so of downtime to train and consolidate your previous learning. I'm not really sure what in what I wrote is RAW or just fluff, but I remember reading in the PHB something about needing some downtime to level. (My groups have always ignored this.)

To have some realism, though, 3-6 months sounds fair. I could see it vary depending on the Int of the character learning the language and how many languages they already know (since it's probably easier to learn your 5th and your 2nd since you understand linguistics in general better), but that could be unnecessarily complicated or shaft players who have less Int.



Another option, if you have a magic shop that will sell them, there is an item in the Magic Item Compendium, for about 600 gp, that is an orb that you can put in your mouth or swallow (forget which) and it is absorbed into you. You learn a language while you have the orb absorbed, and you can consume the orb to use a Hold Person or some such spell on someone who knows the language.
I used it on one character to learn a lot of languages for a few gp in a high-level game.

[Sarakos]

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm not sure how I missed the speak language skill. Although my characters usually dump int and were are still a long way from leveling the orbs from MiC, if they work as advertised look like a great choice

[JeenLeen]

I found the item: Pearl of Speech. It is 600 gp, but I was wrong about two things. First, the spell is Command. Second, and more importantly, it says you can only have one active at a time. But you all could learn Draconic or Terran or some other rare language for your purposes.

I also saw a Crystal Mask of Languages for 2500, which gives 5 languages, but that takes up your face slot.

[Hanuman]

You can take Smatterings which is a language feat that allows you to learn partial languages easy, alternatively a common homebrew system I see used for more RP heavy games is 1-7 skillpoints in Language [Specific Language Here] will grant you different levels of knowledge, 1 being novice and 7 being mastered.

[Sarakos]

I found the item: Pearl of Speech. It is 600 gp, but I was wrong about two things. First, the spell is Command. Second, and more importantly, it says you can only have one active at a time. But you all could learn Draconic or Terran or some other rare language for your purposes.

I also saw a Crystal Mask of Languages for 2500, which gives 5 languages, but that takes up your face slot.

Thanks for checking, although I still feel incredibly stupid for missing the Speak language skill lol

[Gensh]

If your group has consolidated skills like Pathfinder, then you could just ask the DM if s/he'll do what I did: Decipher Script and Forgery are part of a "Linguistics" skill. For every four ranks you put in Linguistics, you gain another language, so a first-level character with maximum Linguistics starts with a bonus language.

[Sarakos]

If your group has consolidated skills like Pathfinder, then you could just ask the DM if s/he'll do what I did: Decipher Script and Forgery are part of a "Linguistics" skill. For every four ranks you put in Linguistics, you gain another language, so a first-level character with maximum Linguistics starts with a bonus language.

Sadly the Dm forthis group would throw a the 3.5 rulebook and all subsequent splat book he has on hand at my head if I suggest playing pathfinder, I partake of my guilty pathfinder pleasure with a different group of friends who would likewise proceed to throw the core rules, bestiary and APG at my head if I suggest we play 3.5

[Gensh]

Sadly the Dm forthis group would throw a the 3.5 rulebook and all subsequent splat book he has on hand at my head if I suggest playing pathfinder, I partake of my guilty pathfinder pleasure with a different group of friends who would likewise proceed to throw the core rules, bestiary and APG at my head if I suggest we play 3.5

That's really kind of odd. I don't think asking about consolidating the skills would meet with that much resistance, though. I mean, who needs Open Lock when one of the example uses of Disable Device is opening a lock? :smallbiggrin:

[woodenbandman]

I had a character who was a linguist once. That explained why i learned new languages every level.

I ran out of languages to learn at like 3rd level.

It didn't really matter though because i had a vow of silence.

I miss that character.

[Greenish]

I had a character who was a linguist once.Was he very cunning? :smallcool:

[gbprime]

Was he very cunning? :smallcool:

Not with a vow of silence he wasn't. But I see what you did there. :smallwink:

[Sarakos]

That's really kind of odd. I don't think asking about consolidating the skills would meet with that much resistance, though. I mean, who needs Open Lock when one of the example uses of Disable Device is opening a lock? :smallbiggrin:

Both groups are defensive as hell about their chosen play style. The 3.5 group beleives everything pathfinder related is broken and won't budge in that beleif. The pathfinder group beleives 3.5 to be unbalanced like crazy (can't say I disagree) and that Pathfinder comes the furthest to fixing the problems of 3.5 without becoming 4.0 which both groups unanimously loathe. So the pathfinder group beleives their play style was written by god and laude it's superiority over 3.5 consistantly. It's kinda fun to watch them go at it actually :)

[ryuteki]

That's really kind of odd. I don't think asking about consolidating the skills would meet with that much resistance, though. I mean, who needs Open Lock when one of the example uses of Disable Device is opening a lock? :smallbiggrin:

Answer: Someone who wants to be able to lock it again. :P Funny how people notice that you can disable a lock to open it, but don't make the connection that the lock is now disabled... ;)

[Xuc Xac]

Answer: Someone who wants to be able to lock it again. :P Funny how people notice that you can disable a lock to open it, but don't make the connection that the lock is now disabled... ;)

So "disable device" can't re-enable a device, but "open lock" can close a lock?

[MeeposFire]

Both groups are defensive as hell about their chosen play style. The 3.5 group beleives everything pathfinder related is broken and won't budge in that beleif. The pathfinder group beleives 3.5 to be unbalanced like crazy (can't say I disagree) and that Pathfinder comes the furthest to fixing the problems of 3.5 without becoming 4.0 which both groups unanimously loathe. So the pathfinder group beleives their play style was written by god and laude it's superiority over 3.5 consistantly. It's kinda fun to watch them go at it actually :)

I imagine it is fun considering how small the differences in balance PF is compared to straight 3.5. Probably leads to circular arguments of hilarity.

[TheMeMan]

Although by no means related to actual D&D rules on it(WHich makes language aquisition remarkably easy), learning a language in 6 months is rather... well... not quite possible with 1 hour a day of teaching. You could learn the basics of it, and would likely be speaking a pidgeon language of sorts, with the basics being within draconic. Of course, different people would learn at different rates. That said, you could learn a very basic form, and talk generally about something. However, if you wanted to have a full-on fluent conversation with a dragon you would need a whole lot more, lest you get chided or somehow insult the dragon in question.

D&D rules on language baffle me, really. One can learn a language almost instantly through leveling. Which just doesn't make much sense.

Hmm... I may actually do some homebrew on linguistics.

[Godskook]

That's really kind of odd. I don't think asking about consolidating the skills would meet with that much resistance, though. I mean, who needs Open Lock when one of the example uses of Disable Device is opening a lock? :smallbiggrin:

Where exactly is this example? It isn't in the SRD or the PHB. There's a "Jam Lock", but Jam != Open, by any measure of the imagination, and just by comparing the DCs, a "very simple lock" is DC 20 to deal with by Open Lock, so I doubt the DC 10 "Jam Lock" does anything nearly as generally useful.

[Xuc Xac]

Although by no means related to actual D&D rules on it(WHich makes language aquisition remarkably easy), learning a language in 6 months is rather... well... not quite possible with 1 hour a day of teaching.

Depends on the language. You can learn Indonesian in about a year and it's considered one of the world's easiest languages to learn. You can learn Basic English (an artificially simplified form of English) in a very short time, but it's hard to talk about anything complicated in it. For example, "watermelon" in Basic English would be "fruit with green outside and red inside and shape of an egg and a good taste."

For the situation in the OP, I think it would make more sense for the group to just make up their own private code. They aren't the only ones who can speak Draconic, so their conversations won't be all that private (especially since people who understand them might not announce "Hey, I speak Draconic too!" when they start plotting in front of them).

[MeeposFire]

Although by no means related to actual D&D rules on it(WHich makes language aquisition remarkably easy), learning a language in 6 months is rather... well... not quite possible with 1 hour a day of teaching. You could learn the basics of it, and would likely be speaking a pidgeon language of sorts, with the basics being within draconic. Of course, different people would learn at different rates. That said, you could learn a very basic form, and talk generally about something. However, if you wanted to have a full-on fluent conversation with a dragon you would need a whole lot more, lest you get chided or somehow insult the dragon in question.

D&D rules on language baffle me, really. One can learn a language almost instantly through leveling. Which just doesn't make much sense.

Hmm... I may actually do some homebrew on linguistics.

Really if you think about nothing about leveling makes much sense. Yes I killed a creature I am now spontaneously stronger, tougher, better at unrelated skills, and picked up a new special ability!

[Popertop]

So "disable device" can't re-enable a device, but "open lock" can close a lock?

you could just combine the skills into one anyway

[Serpentine]

Saya tidak tahu Bahasa Indonesia bagus sekali.*

I have a very rough set of houserules in my game. You need more than one skill point to learn a language - 1 point gives you a smattering, tourist sort of level; 2 gives you a passable knowledge, enough to have a simple conversation, or a complicated one if they go slowly; 3 makes you fluent or close to it; and 4 makes you equal to or better than a normal born speaker. 5 wouldn't really be necessary except for fluff reasons, but basically you'd be a total expert in the language and know more about it that even well-educated native speakers.
But, it is also possible to roleplay some language skill. My characters have been in a place with an entirely different "Common" (I call it the Local Common) for a number of months. They have been immersed enough to have picked up a few very basic words - "hungry", "thirsty", "danger", "death", a few swearwords, that sort of thing. If they ever make a concerted effort in-character to learn a language over several weeks or months, I might just give them a free skill point in it (spending a skill point would make it much quicker).


*For the moderators: "I do not know very good Indonesian."

[Telok]

My memory may be retaining old information but I belive that ropers have thier own language.

[Gensh]

Where exactly is this example? It isn't in the SRD or the PHB. There's a "Jam Lock", but Jam != Open, by any measure of the imagination, and just by comparing the DCs, a "very simple lock" is DC 20 to deal with by Open Lock, so I doubt the DC 10 "Jam Lock" does anything nearly as generally useful.

You know, I can't seem to find it, but I could have sworn it was in the DMG.


My memory may be retaining old information but I belive that ropers have thier own language.

MM1 says no. I know slaad do, though.

[Ormur]

Reminds me of the time when my group found some mysterious texts when the looted some evil cleric's body. I allowed them to recognize the script which told them it was either abyssal or infernal. The sorceress with able learner was close to levelling and a single encounter later she instantly knew both abyssal and infernal from spending two skill points. How very convenient.

[Beleriphon]

Reminds me of the time when my group found some mysterious texts when the looted some evil cleric's body. I allowed them to recognize the script which told them it was either abyssal or infernal. The sorceress with able learner was close to levelling and a single encounter later she instantly knew both abyssal and infernal from spending two skill points. How very convenient.

I assume the book was written in coded Abyssal or Infernal.

[Godskook]

I have a very rough set of houserules in my game. You need more than one skill point to learn a language - 1 point gives you a smattering, tourist sort of level; 2 gives you a passable knowledge, enough to have a simple conversation, or a complicated one if they go slowly; 3 makes you fluent or close to it; and 4 makes you equal to or better than a normal born speaker. 5 wouldn't really be necessary except for fluff reasons, but basically you'd be a total expert in the language and know more about it that even well-educated native speakers.

Maybe 5 gives you a roguish ability to fake accents and other language oriented points of subterfuge?


You know, I can't seem to find it, but I could have sworn it was in the DMG.

It it possible you read "Jam Lock" and only actually 'caught' the "Lock" part?

[Sillycomic]

The Disable Device clearly says "Jam a lock" is one of the things you can do with this skill.

So, that means a lock is clearly a device when it comes to this skill. Jamming a lock isn't the only way to disable it, you can do other things to a lock to disable it (like... opening it, it would just require a higher DC to do)

One of the trickier parts of Disable device says you are allowed to "disarm a trap." Now, up until this point, jamming and sabotaging simple devices means you could claim the skill doesn't really require any sort of workings of the device, just stick a piece of wood or small pin in somewhere and you can jam a lock or sabotage a cart.

But, now the skill is assuming you know the complicated workings of said "device" and can easily disarm and rearm it so long as you have enough ranks to do so.

Again... if you can do this with some devices, you should be able to do this with others. Not all devices, but some, particularly those that work very similar to each other. Like say... a lock and a trap.

[Chilingsworth]

This guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet) learned Icelandic in one week. I don't know how many hours he trained in it each day, though. Apparently, Icelandic is one of the hardest lanuages to learn, too.

[stainboy]

He can also recite pi to 22,000 digits. If this guy were a D&D character he'd be cheating.

The cost of learning a language in D&D has to be balanced against "I cast Tongues and it doesn't matter." I just rule that one particular language is hard-wired into the human brain and all humans cultures speak Common. I call it the Star Wars solution.

Trying to make languages more realistic results in players not being able to talk to NPCs as soon as they travel 100 miles in any direction, which means your gameplay options are dungeon crawls and shopping. Or worse, results in the wizard being the only one who can talk to anyone, and D&D didn't need more things that only the wizard can do.

[Chilingsworth]

He can also recite pi to 22,000 digits. If this guy were a D&D character he'd be cheating.

The cost of learning a language in D&D has to be balanced against "I cast Tongues and it doesn't matter." I just rule that one particular language is hard-wired into the human brain and all humans cultures speak Common. I call it the Star Wars solution.

Trying to make languages more realistic results in players not being able to talk to NPCs as soon as they travel 100 miles in any direction, which means your gameplay options are dungeon crawls and shopping. Or worse, results in the wizard being the only one who can talk to anyone, and D&D didn't need more things that only the wizard can do.

It isn't something "only the wizard can do," A bard, cleric, or sorcerer could get the comprehend languages and tounges spells also.

Also, if it's possible in real life, (with no particular technological assistance) it should be possible in D&D without cheating.