(3.5) Wu Jen suck, how else can I get giant size?

[Goonthegoof]

I'm trying to get either a permanent or an all day Giant Size spell (p109, CA) which turns the character colossal if you get it to caster level 19. I'm trying to get this on a gestalt barbarian, and the easiest way seems to be cleric 1/wu jen 13, divine metamagic and a bunch of temporary caster level increasing items.

I looked into making an item of permanent giant size, but it cost about 500k. Now: Is there a way to put giant size on the spell list of another class? I don't mind blowing the levels on wu jen, but I would really prefer any other class. I looked at Extra Spell feat from the same book and it seemed like it would let me do this, am I correct?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think the favourite method was persisted miracle, using the function to copy a spell even from other lists.

I think a properly timed dip into Wyrm Wizard can get you Giant Size on your list.

[Goonthegoof]

Thank you, wyrm wizard was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Edit: Wait a sec, fridge logic just kicked in. You can add any spell to your arcane spellcasting list. Doesn't that mean you can make any spell into an arcane scroll, and by extension have any spell on a wizard's spell list as long as they can find a wyrm wizard with the right spell?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not really IIRC for you to scribe the spell on your spellbok it must be on the general sor/wiz spell list, Wyrm Wizard is just an exception to the rule AFAIK

[true_shinken]

Psychic Warrior for Expansion gets pretty close.

[Glimbur]

There is a domain that grants Giant Size. Possibly it's the Hero domain, I'm too lazy to check anywhere besides Spell Compendium.

[Flickerdart]

Archivists can scribe the spell in their prayer book.

[Goonthegoof]

How? It isn't a divine spell is it?

[Flickerdart]

Oh, did I confuse Wu-jen and Shugenja again? Excuse me. If it's in a domain after all, then they can learn it anyway, though.

Spell-to-power Erudite can do it, too.

[Goonthegoof]

Can't find the heroism domain anywhere, though I can find mentions of giant size being in the domain.

[Flickerdart]

It's in Oriental Adventures, apparently. Maybe updated in SpC.

[Godskook]

The Extra Spell feat is, depending on DM, non-list specific, so that's an option if your DM swings that way.

[Curmudgeon]

There is a domain that grants Giant Size. Possibly it's the Hero domain, I'm too lazy to check anywhere besides Spell Compendium.
That's a Shaman domain, in Oriental Adventures. Wu Jen and Shamans are the only classes that get Giant Size.

[Jack_Simth]

Oh, did I confuse Wu-jen and Shugenja again? Excuse me. If it's in a domain after all, then they can learn it anyway, though.
Doesn't matter. Whether a scroll is arcane or divine depends on the creator, not the spell itself. When two people collaborate on a spell, they pick one of the two to be the creator (and pay the XP cost). So if an Archivist collaborates with a Wu-jen on a Scroll of Giant Size, and the Archivist pays the XP, then it's a Divine scroll of the Wu-Jen spell (which the Wu-Jen can't use without UMD). The Archivist, however, can learn any spell off of a Divine scroll....

[Eldariel]

Miracle is really the simplest way; it's a Cleric-spell and Cleric spell list kicks ass. You get it through either Cleric or Archivist and can use Divine Metamagic or whatever for easy Persisting.

[Goonthegoof]

Unfortunately I'm level 15, no miracles for me.

[Salanmander]

Artificers would be able to make scrolls of it and UMD them, but that seems like it would probably be...suboptimal if you're doing it every day.

[Augmented Lurk]

You know, Wu Jen don't actually suck. Just because they're not quite as broken as tier one casters doesn't mean they're weak. They're probably stronger than 80-90% of the classes in the game.

[Darrin]

Wyrm Wizard can add it to their spell list (Dragon Magic) but you lose a caster level.

[Prime32]

The Extra Spell feat is, depending on DM, non-list specific, so that's an option if your DM swings that way.The psionic equivalent (Expanded Knowledge) is explicitly non-list-specific, so that's one point in its favour.

[Person_Man]

Find a Colossal enemy - preferably one with a piss poor Will Save. Cast Magic Jar on it. Put your body inside a padded adamantine coffin with air holes or something similar, and have your new Colossal body carry it around inside of it's armor somewhere. Magic Jar lasts for hours per caster level, so you can easily memorize 3-4 per day, and renew it repeatedly as needed.

[Emmerask]

You know, Wu Jen don't actually suck. Just because they're not quite as broken as tier one casters doesn't mean they're weak. They're probably stronger than 80-90% of the classes in the game.

Agreed, and their spell-list is pretty good actually, though they suffer from being forgotten after CA with no new spells added in different source books unlike wizards or clerics who get new spells in pretty much every single book.

[Claudius Maximus]

Complete Mage and Spell Compendium have Wu Jen spells, so it's not like they have no support at all.

[Yora]

Tell the dm that the wizard is researching an original spell, that does the same thing as that Wu Jen spell. Relly depends on if the dm lets it pass or not.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If you're a Changeling, you can also go Recaster to nab it.

[Barbarian MD]

Please tell me you're aware of this barbarian variant:

Penny Dreadful Barbarian: https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYdLcxsM7Nx0ZGc2NzhibjNfNzFkNjl3ajMzYg&hl=en - gain two size categories when you rage as the capstone.

[Claudius Maximus]

It's nice to see PD stuff mentioned. I think they're still working on SUPR and/or Legend, but I haven't received any news recently.

[Curmudgeon]

Complete Mage and Spell Compendium have Wu Jen spells, so it's not like they have no support at all.
Have you checked your SC recently? From page 3:
Spell Compendium deals exclusively with spells used by the classes and prestige classes introduced in the Player’s Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide The updated Wu Jen spells from Complete Arcane are there, but none of them have non-core spellcasting class tags.

[Tael]

Have you checked your SC recently? From page 3: The updated Wu Jen spells from Complete Arcane are there, but none of them have non-core spellcasting class tags.

Well if you're willing to vet every spell, the SC does say this:

Wu Jen (Complete Arcane): Add spells with element (except
air), wood, and metal themes.

[Claudius Maximus]

Well it's a reference book so I don't read some of the bits that often. Sue me.

Edit: Please don't.

[Vizzerdrix]

Well if you're willing to vet every spell, the SC does say this:

Hmm... I wonder exactly what that would give the Wu Jen...

[Claudius Maximus]

You can see using this (http://imarvintpa.com/dndLive/FindSpell.php) if you check SpC as the only source, and check the appropriate descriptors.

Pretty sure it's all OGL or vague enough not to violate it.

[JaronK]

Silly method... using the Draconomicon rules for advancing dragons, a Dragonwrought Kobold of 121+ years of age who gains 6 HD immediately becomes colossal. Whee! Of course, I'm pretty sure they meant 6 racial HD... and I don't think you'd get the stat bumps, so it's really not worthwile.

JaronK