"Normal" AC by level

[NineThePuma]

What's the normal AC based on levels? Like, what's the range of AC we should be looking at having at level 1, for example.

[Goonthegoof]

The typical guideline is an AC of level+13 and try to get yourself a source of displacement/concealment as soon as possible.

[NineThePuma]

Wow, so my AC 20 at level 1 is excessive? Oops...

[Goonthegoof]

Not really, it's easy to get high armour at level 1, especially depending on class. 13 is a the minimum, but it really depends on the type of character you're playing. By the 20 AC at level 1 I'm assuming you either have a lot of dex or full plate?

[Roc Ness]

Not really, it's easy to get high armour at level 1, especially depending on class. 13 is a the minimum, but it really depends on the type of character you're playing. By the 20 AC at level 1 I'm assuming you either have a lot of dex or full plate?

Full plate and heavy shield is enough to do that. Where you'd get a full plate at first level, though...

[NineThePuma]

Lots of Dex.

Fullplate actually costs more money than you can get your hands on at level 1.

And admittedly, I do have some fierce Natural Armor, but that's less important to me than being really hard to hit (maybe a quarter of the time for focused fighters who aren't power attacking)

[Elric VIII]

You can get your AC very high, even if you're not AC focused. Using things like defending armor/shield spikes. If you're going for high AC I assume you're trying to tank?

> +1 Defending Shield Spikes (+1 AC) - 8000gp
> +1 Defending Armor Spikes (+1 AC) - 8000gp
> Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (+1 AC) - 2000gp
> Ring of Protection +1 (+1 AC) - 2000gp
> Dusty Rose Ioun Stone (+1 AC) - 2000gp
> +1 Animated Heavy Shield (+3 AC) - 9000gp
> +1 Full Plate (+9 AC) - 3500gp

The armor and weapons cost a few hundred more when factoring in actual item cost + masterwork quality. In the first few levels you're basically working with mundane plate and a shield if you want to focus on that. As you level up you can begin to invest in small increases in AC that begin to add up. So at level 1, Half Plate + 1 Dex + Heavy Shield = 20 AC and you can increase it by 1/level until about level 6-7 when the magic items really start kicking in. At that point, expect to be able to add 2 per level for a while, but be wary, it's exponentially expensive.

Additionally, If you want to invest in the Ride skill + a mount you can make DC 15 ride checks to gain cover (+4 to AC) as a free action whenever you're attacked.

So, I'd say your AC is about average for a tank/dex-based character at level 1.

[2xMachina]

Also Spiked Gauntlets. You can hold them at the same time as you hold your main weapon.

[Roc Ness]

Lots of Dex.


Ahh, I see that it could be Blaze the Firefly. :smalltongue:

Lesse, normal AC for level would be as Goonthegoof says, ~ Level + 13. That'd be what I'd expect.

As a player, however, there are certain ACs I strive for.
In Low Level games (1-6), I try to get 17-22 AC. Lower, and I feel exposed, higher, I feel overpowered.
Mid-level (7-12) and I try to get 26-30 AC for the same reasons
High Level (13+) the minimum I try to get becomes about 35 and there isn't a maximum anymore, because at high level a high AC isn't as important anymore.


... This is personal opinion, of course.

[NineThePuma]

And now my 22 AC at level 1 feels like I'm pushing it.

As a corollary, what's the highest possible to hit you can have at level 1? +7 or so? (+1 Size, +4 Mod, +1 BAB, +1 Weapon Focus)

[Elric VIII]

Also Spiked Gauntlets. You can hold them at the same time as you hold your main weapon.

That's a good point. But does this work with two-handed weapons?

[NineThePuma]

That's a good point. But does this work with two-handed weapons?

Considering they're built into your armor, I'd say "yes" <<

[grimbold]

And now my 22 AC at level 1 feels like I'm pushing it.

As a corollary, what's the highest possible to hit you can have at level 1? +7 or so? (+1 Size, +4 Mod, +1 BAB, +1 Weapon Focus)

22 ac is at the high end, tower shield and breastplate and high dex gets you that
highest to hit for me is +9 if playing a giant orc (a genetic anomaly but hey why not) +8 if playing a normal orc

[NineThePuma]

So a devoted fighter type is hitting about 1/4 of the time. Good idea to pack in some sort of... "discouragement" device, I suppose.

[Prime32]

Optimisation by the Numbers
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=386
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869122/Optimization_By_The_Numbers

It shows the average attack rolls and AC of monsters of each level, so you can figure out how good your stats are. Note that while monster AC goes up with levels their touch AC goes down.

[NineThePuma]

And now that you've given me that, Prime 32, I shall never ever submit a character who is not at least Optimized. <___< Because I number crunch ALL THE TIME.

[Runestar]

Isn't AC 13+cr the average cr for monsters?

For players, it should be higher, since they can access better gear and buffs.

I never heard of a 1st lv fighter being able to afford full plate (barring a warforged), so a more reasonable AC would be 17 (base10, +4 scale, +2shield, +1dex), or 15 if you wield a 2-handed weapon.

You should be able to buy masterwork fullplate at 3rd, so your AC would increase to 19 without a shield.

At 4th lv, you should also start finding +1armour, so AC20-21.

At 6th lv, your first amulet of NA+1 and ring of prot+1, so AC 22 at least (or 25 with +1 shield). Of course, buffs like barkskin or magic circle can push this to ~30 for those really critical fights.

So roughly AC = ECL+20 seems to be a good guideline though you will find that at higher lvs, monsters' attack rating outstrip your best efforts to pump your AC anyways. :smallannoyed:

[Tengu_temp]

As a corollary, what's the highest possible to hit you can have at level 1? +7 or so? (+1 Size, +4 Mod, +1 BAB, +1 Weapon Focus)

An orc barbarian can go as high as +10: +6 from base strength, +2 from rage, +1 from BAB and +1 from weapon focus (suboptimal choice, but you wanted highest attack bonus so there we go).

[Vistella]

An orc barbarian can go as high as +10: +6 from base strength, +2 from rage, +1 from BAB and +1 from weapon focus (suboptimal choice, but you wanted highest attack bonus so there we go).

+1 masterwork weapon, no?

[Tengu_temp]

Assuming you have the cash to buy it.

And technically, a halfling wizard or sorcerer with maxxed out dexterity can have +27/28 attack bonus on first level, but that's cheating since it requires you to cast True Strike.

[woodenbandman]

Optimisation by the Numbers
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=386
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869122/Optimization_By_The_Numbers

It shows the average attack rolls and AC of monsters of each level, so you can figure out how good your stats are. Note that while monster AC goes up with levels their touch AC goes down.

YET ANOTHER REASON WHY THE WIZARD IS OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!

[Psyren]

Full plate and heavy shield is enough to do that. Where you'd get a full plate at first level, though...


Lots of Dex.

Fullplate actually costs more money than you can get your hands on at level 1.


Binders can get masterwork full plate at level 1 for free :smallsmile:

[Ravens_cry]

YET ANOTHER REASON WHY THE WIZARD IS OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!
"[More then]five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind."

[Starbuck_II]

I still say 15 + 1.5*lv is a good rate for AC. 40% chance of being hit.
20+ 1.5* LV is Tank AC (around 10%-15% chance of being hit).

Still miss chances are best.

[ericgrau]

At level 1 you should have up to 17 AC because all you can afford is scale mail. 10+4 (armor) +2 (shield)+1 (dex).

For other levels, after you get full plate, try this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8888663&postcount=15

Without a shield it is around 4 points lower. Roughly it scales at 1 per level. Touch AC scales at about 0.25 per level. With heavy armor (or a high dex) and a shield you get missed around 50% to 75+% of the time and without one you get missed 25% to 50+% of the time. Usually on the high end of that range. At higher levels it creeps towards the lower end of the range for single attacks, but your ability to negate secondary attacks in full attacks pushes it back up to the high end of the range.

And, at least in core, miss chances are way overpriced until high levels. Though they help more on armorless characters. Going from being hit on a 15 to hit on a 16 (+1 AC) has the same effect as a 20% miss chance. i.e., +1 AC negates 20% of those 5 out of 20 hits just like a 20% miss chance would. About the same as the dodge feat. But on a low armor character you need to go from being hit on a 5 to being hit on an 8 (+3 AC) to equal a 20% miss chance. Anyhoo a cloak of minor displacement is 24,000 gp for 20% so you can't afford it until much later when +1 to +3 AC actually costs that much. Other sources with a higher miss chance take a standard action to activate which often isn't worth it.