Two questions: Getting attacked while summoning creatures and disease problems

[DarkEternal]

Summoning a creature is a spell that takes an entire round.

My party recently got into fighting two pit fiends, who used their spell like abilities to summon other devils. However, it takes a round to summon them, and basically they all charged said pit fiends and did as much damage as possible to them.

Now, I was under theimpression that you need to make a concentration check if you are injured during casting a spell, especially one that needs an entire round to be cast, however, I thought that you need to make a concentration check after each attack was made. Say, the fighter rushes you and does 15 damage with first attack, 20 with second, and 12 with third(when you take all DR in effect and things like that). My reasoning was that the pit fiend would need to make a Concentration check of 25 on first hit, 30 on second hit and 22 on third hit.

However, some of my players say that you make the Concentration check stacked of all the damage when it takes a longer time to cast the spell, so basically, you need to make a single concentration check, but with a practically impossible DC(In the above scenario, that DC would be 57 if I am correct). Is that true? Seems like summoning spells would be next to useless in any combat then unless you were tremendously far away or something.

Second question regards disease, though that is probably moot on the levels these characters are. Basically, one of the players got infected with the Pit fiends disease which has a 1d4 days incubation period and then he takes strength damage each day. From what I read, you don't tell your player that he has a disease, however, on this level is it even worth it? I mean, a single Heal spell, a Heroes feast or any restoration spells heals the disease without even him needing to know he had it, right? Diseases seem quite a bit underpowered or intended for really low levels when you don't have to access to these spells?(Even though, even a good Heal check gets rid of a disease, so yeah).

[Darrin]

Summoning a creature is a spell that takes an entire round.

My party recently got into fighting two pit fiends, who used their spell like abilities to summon other devils. However, it takes a round to summon them, and basically they all charged said pit fiends and did as much damage as possible to them.


Spell-Like Abilities and Supernatural Abilities take a standard action unless the stat block says otherwise. (They can also ignore all material components and XP costs.) This means creatures with these abilities get a break on spell effects that would normally have much longer casting times.

PCs can speed up their summons via the usual means: Quicken metamagic, rapid summoning ACFs, and Golden Desert Honey (Complete Mage p. 136).



However, some of my players say that you make the Concentration check stacked of all the damage when it takes a longer time to cast the spell, so basically, you need to make a single concentration check, but with a practically impossible DC(In the above scenario, that DC would be 57 if I am correct). Is that true? Seems like summoning spells would be next to useless in any combat then unless you were tremendously far away or something.


I'm not sure if you add the damage or treat each attack separately. However, *any* single creature that can be rat-packed by a large group of PCs is at a huge disadvantage no matter what he does. This is what *minions* are for. If the Pit Fiends weren't smart enough to summon their buddies beforehand, or have some cannon-fodder to hide behind, then they probably deserve to get ganked.

Note to DM: don't get too bent out of shape about this. Your job is to challenge the PCs, but be a graceful loser. Yes, you're responsible for everything in the game-world, but you have limited time/resources and you're going to forget things, screw up the rules, and occasionally panic. It happens. The PCs will surprise you occasionally with a cake-walk through an encounter you thought would be much tougher. The absolute worst thing that could happen: the PCs win, but they were supposed to win anyway. Don't fight them over whether they "earned" the XP/treasure, just give it to them with a cryptic smile, like you just did something sneaky to them that they may regret later. Next time, you'll be better prepared.



From what I read, you don't tell your player that he has a disease, however, on this level is it even worth it?

Up to the DM, really... and DM styles vary. A Knowledge check against the creature that gave the disease or a simple Heal check should suffice, DC either 5 or 0.

I'd probably tell the player as soon as he fails the save or the first time he takes any ability damage. That's mostly because I have absolutely no interest in role-playing the whole disease/find a cleric, etc. Time to play is usually very limited, so I cut out or handwave a lot of the boring stuff to get to the exciting stuff as quickly as possible.

[DarkEternal]

Spell-Like Abilities and Supernatural Abilities take a standard action unless the stat block says otherwise. (They can also ignore all material components and XP costs.) This means creatures with these abilities get a break on spell effects that would normally have much longer casting times.

PCs can speed up their summons via the usual means: Quicken metamagic, rapid summoning ACFs, and Golden Desert Honey (Complete Mage p. 136).

For pit fiends exclusively, it says:

"Summon Devil (Sp): Twice per day a pit fiend can automatically summon 2 lemures, bone devils, or bearded devils, or 1 erinyes, horned devil, or ice devil. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell. "

So I don't know if the part "the equivalent of an 8th level spell" means that they cast it following rules for said spell, meaning it takes the time it takes to cast the spell as if you were a caster.


I'm not sure if you add the damage or treat each attack separately. However, *any* single creature that can be rat-packed by a large group of PCs is at a huge disadvantage no matter what he does. This is what *minions* are for. If the Pit Fiends weren't smart enough to summon their buddies beforehand, or have some cannon-fodder to hide behind, then they probably deserve to get ganked.


The pit fiends did not know, they were just as surprised to see the pc's as the pc's were, since they were on "guard" duty or scouting duty.



Note to DM: don't get too bent out of shape about this. Your job is to challenge the PCs, but be a graceful loser. Yes, you're responsible for everything in the game-world, but you have limited time/resources and you're going to forget things, screw up the rules, and occasionally panic. It happens. The PCs will surprise you occasionally with a cake-walk through an encounter you thought would be much tougher. The absolute worst thing that could happen: the PCs win, but they were supposed to win anyway. Don't fight them over whether they "earned" the XP/treasure, just give it to them with a cryptic smile, like you just did something sneaky to them that they may regret later. Next time, you'll be better prepared.

Of course not, I want my PC's to survive each encounter. Just want them to work for it, because steamrolling through everything is, I'm pretty sure, not pleasing for them.

[Toliudar]

It sounds like the PC's responded in an intelligent tactical manner, pressing the Pit Fiends hard in order to keep them from making good use of the spell-like abilities, and the Pit Fiends either couldn't or didn't want to use their teleportation to get clear of the attackers.

If in the future you're still going with a summoning SLA being a 1 round action, then I think you'd be justified in resolving a concentration check for each attack separately.

[woodenbandman]

and be sure that the pit fiends all get ranks in the concentration skill.

[KillianHawkeye]

For pit fiends exclusively, it says:

"Summon Devil (Sp): Twice per day a pit fiend can automatically summon 2 lemures, bone devils, or bearded devils, or 1 erinyes, horned devil, or ice devil. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell. "

So I don't know if the part "the equivalent of an 8th level spell" means that they cast it following rules for said spell, meaning it takes the time it takes to cast the spell as if you were a caster.

The "equivalent of an Nth-level spell" line has nothing to do with the casting time.

An appropriate spell level is given for each summoning ability for purposes of Concentration checks and attempts to dispel the summoned creature.



As for the Concentration check, nothing in the skill description says that the damage accumulates for a single uber-high check DC, therefore it does not. In fact, since the damage is not occuring simultaneously, it actually makes more sense for each check to be treated individually.