Girard is dead

[Nevereatcars]

People keep assuming Girard is still alive, but if you do some very simple math, you (at least I) realize that that's highly illogical. Soon was about the same age as Girard when they were adventuring with the Scribblers together. When Shojo was a little boy, Soon was nearly dead with age. Girard couldn't be more than ten years younger than him, possibly less. It has most likely been about 60 years since Soon died, based on SHOJO'S approximate age. Therefore, unless Girard extended his life, he should be long dead.

[Imgran]

Unless he was a half-elf.

[KillItWithFire]

When you consider that Giriard is epic, epic level people have a tendency to live beyon what is normally expected of their race. If you read SoD both Lirian and Dorukon were alive within 10 years or so of this comics timeframe.

[Mauve Shirt]

Lirian and Dorukan are only dead 'cause Xykon killed them. I think Girard is alive, but incredibly old.

[PirateMonk]

I've been wondering about lifespan in OOTS lately. Roy is 29, and he tells Eric that hopefully he won't die for another 80 years or so. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0600.html) This could just be an unlikely wish, or maybe disease curing spells actually make it a reasonable expectation for a wealthy adventurer.

Also, Soon may have allowed himself to die because he would be more powerful as a ghost-martyr than as an very old, frail human

[Zmflavius]

Lirian and Dorukan are only dead 'cause Xykon killed them. I think Girard is alive, but incredibly old.

Well, Dorukan was incredibly old when Xykon fought him, but he looked like he had his power mostly intact. I suppose that's because he was a wizard, but I doubt that Girard would have most of his power intact.

And just to nitpick, I think that technically, they're still alive, but imprisoned within a gem.

[Mauve Shirt]

They're not really alive. They're as alive as Roy was when he was in Celestia. The difference is they're in a gem instead of in an afterlife.

[Nevereatcars]

Unless he was a half-elf.

Like I said, unnatural age extender.

[Kareasint]

There are a number of ways to prolong life in D&D. We are not entirely sure of Girard's exact race. A half elf could indeed survive that long even without magic.

Considering that we are dealing with an epic level caster, it is very possible that a Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) may have been used. There are magic items that can extend life. Or perhaps an artifact has granted long life to serve its purpose. Finally, the sheer will of a diety can render someone immortal (Chosen).

Girard appears to have lived long enough for Tarquin to know of him.

@Mauve Shirt. You're not going to wear that shirt, are you?

[Nevereatcars]

Or perhaps an artifact has granted long life to serve its purpose.

Ooh, like the One Ring!

[Zevox]

People keep assuming Girard is still alive, but if you do some very simple math, you (at least I) realize that that's highly illogical. Soon was about the same age as Girard when they were adventuring with the Scribblers together. When Shojo was a little boy, Soon was nearly dead with age. Girard couldn't be more than ten years younger than him, possibly less. It has most likely been about 60 years since Soon died, based on SHOJO'S approximate age. Therefore, unless Girard extended his life, he should be long dead.
Very bad assumptions you're making there, and you've missed a basic piece of information we have - how long it has been since the Order of the Scribble's adventures. We were told in the Crayons of Time flashback (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) that they began those sixty-six years ago. Unless Girard was in his mid-fourties or older then he could easily be alive today simply because humans can live up to 110 years naturally by the rules.

Assuming that Soon was about the same age as Girard is a bad assumption as well given what we know about how quickly Soon aged and died after their adventures. Shojo we know was 72, and he was still young when that happened, so it has to have occurred well within a decade of the Scribblers' adventures. This means Shojo was likely the oldest of his group by far, probably even in his fifties. And even then we either have to assume that Rich ignored the normal rules on dying of old age in D&D (perfectly probable given he has a stated willingness to ignore the rules if they get in the way of the story) or that Soon did not die of old age, but rather something else (perhaps sacrificing himself as part of a ritual to enact the ghost-martyr magic).

So unless we assume Girard was also one of the older members of the Scribblers, which is possible I suppose but not something we have any evidence for, it would be perfectly possible for him to be alive naturally today. Note also that the third Human member of the group, Dorukon, was still alive and well only six months before the start of the comic.

And of course there's also the matter of Girard being an epic-level spellcaster. Those have a tendency to find ways of using magic to extend their lifespans anyway.

Girard could be dead, but personally, I'd say the safer bet is that he is still alive.

Zevox

[slayerx]

Epic characters can take a feat, "extended life span", that allows them to extend their age
Essentially it is possible for an epic level human to live for hundreds of years, as long as he keeps getting levels and using his feats to extend his age

And considering the way Girard felt about paladins, i think that he is NOT a very trusting man in general... as such it would not be hard to believe that he would feel that he himself must stay around as long as possible to make sure the gate remains safe. This ofcourse would lead him to constantly extending his age... frankly I now imagine that when the Order finally meet girard, he will be a very paranoid kind of man; like one of those crazy conspiracy theorists

Soon on the otherhand, would allow himself to die, as he had faith in the paladin code and thus felt he could trust the sapphire guard to continue on without him


Soon was about the same age as Girard when they were adventuring with the Scribblers together.
And you based that on what?

[Kish]

Like I said, unnatural age extender.
This is a...creative...definition of "unnatural age extender."

[mootoall]

This is a...creative...definition of "unnatural age extender."

There's nothing more unnatural than someone mating with an elf ... *shudder*

[sherlock]

There's nothing more unnatural than someone mating with an elf ... *shudder*

Questionable opinion!
http://www.theevenstar.com/images/arwen.jpg

:tongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

Questionable opinion!
http://www.theevenstar.com/images/arwen.jpg

:tongue:

To be fair, Arwen was three-quarters elven.

[Zevox]

To be fair, Arwen was three-quarters elven.
*Warning: Tolkien nerd tangent*

Actually it's quite possible she would technically be a full-blooded Elf. After the First Age the four existing Half-Elves - Earendil, Elwing, and their sons Elrond and Elros, were all asked by the gods to choose whether they would be counted among Elves or Men. Those that chose Elves became fully immortal as Elves, and the one that chose Men, Elros, became a mortal man, albeit with a significantly extended lifespan (though all the Men of his nation had a significantly extended lifespan for a long while, albeit not as long as his). So if that decision actually altered their bodies to make them fully Elven or fully Human, Elrond's children would all be fully Elven in spite of Elrond having been born a Half-Elf.

Zevox

[NerfTW]

Soon was about the same age as Girard when they were adventuring with the Scribblers together.

I'm going with the others in saying "What are you basing this on?". We're given no indication of anyone's ages other than Dorukon being much younger than the others. If anything, I'd say most evidence points towards Soon being much older than everyone else.

There's nothing keeping Girard from being a very old man. He's not likely to join the order and start kicking butt by any means, but he's very likely not dead. Especially since 66 years ago allows for him to be almost 40 at the time and still alive.

Keep in mind that this is a world with magical healing spells. Most things that would take a person down at a young age don't mean squat in a universe where you can instantly heal from a sword through the chest, or raise someone from the dead.

[Zevox]

We're given no indication of anyone's ages other than Dorukon being much younger than the others.
And we're no even given that. I'm guessing you're basing that assumption on Serini noting him as the "new kid" in her diary. Keep in mind that this may have nothing to do with his age and simply mean he was the last to join the group. And even if we took it to mean he was the youngest, assuming he was "much" younger than the others seems completely unfounded.

Zevox

[Darth Hunterix]

Questionable opinion!
http://www.theevenstar.com/images/arwen.jpg

:tongue:
Well, actually she is a human actress who is only disguised as an elf, so she has what's the best from both races. Knowing that she is not a valid argument :smallwink:

Now, think of that eyes, looking at you in the middle of the...
http://www.sweden.se/upload/Sweden_se/english/articles/SI/2007/Girls_get_gaming/female_blood_elf.jpg
...night.

[Dr.Epic]

There's a theory going around that Girard wasn't a human or at least had a template that would allow him a much longer life span. There's no proof supporting this, but Tarquin did say he had ties to Girard so that sort of implies he may have a pulse.

[Zevox]

Tarquin did say he had ties to Girard so that sort of implies he may have a pulse.
Actually Tarquin said no such thing. He gave a description of what Girard looked like when was younger and let Haley and Elan assume he could help them locate him as a means of getting them to stick around. What he actually knows is a complete unknown at this point.

Zevox

[KillItWithFire]

Considering Giriad specialized in illusion I imagine he still looks similar to the way he did when he was younger. If Tarquin met Giriad when he was younger, I'm left wondering how much he knows about the gates and the snarl. (Though I guess we'll find out) If Giriad is using illusions to keep himself looking sexy and Tarquin met him recently I find it much more credible that Tarquin woul be able to reconize the name.

[Zevox]

Considering Giriad specialized in illusion I imagine he still looks similar to the way he did when he was younger. If Tarquin met Giriad when he was younger, I'm left wondering how much he knows about the gates and the snarl. (Though I guess we'll find out) If Giriad is using illusions to keep himself looking sexy and Tarquin met him recently I find it much more credible that Tarquin woul be able to reconize the name.
Possible, but it's also possible that Tarquin's information is strictly second-hand, and he learned of Girard from someone who knew him a while ago. That was my point - all we know that Tarquin knows is what Girard looked like decades ago. We do not know how he came about that knowledge or what else he might know, and there are any number of possible explanations for it. Assuming anything about what he knows at this point is likely not a great idea.

Zevox

[KillItWithFire]

Possible, but it's also possible that Tarquin's information is strictly second-hand, and he learned of Girard from someone who knew him a while ago. That was my point - all we know that Tarquin knows is what Girard looked like decades ago. We do not know how he came about that knowledge or what else he might know, and there are any number of possible explanations for it. Assuming anything about what he knows at this point is likely not a great idea.

Zevox

ok you got me there, I'll settle with assuming that if he his still alive, he probably still looks young due to magical illusions. Giriad seems like the type of person who would do that if it took minimal effort.

[blazingshadow]

even if he is dead he can still cast simulacrum to leave a copy of himself behind to defend the gate. heck he could have simulacrums (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm) of all of his former party members guarding his gate along with his illusions.

a simulacri of the whole party may not be epic leveled but they should still be strong enough to take out most threats

[Forum Explorer]

He could be undead then useing his illusions to appear like he did 60 years ago.

I want to see a epic lich duel. :smallbiggrin:

[Swordpriest]

Yep, he could have the Extended Lifespan feat (or whatever it's called), have exotic blood, turn himself into a lich....

.... or just find something homebrewed for Rich's campaign. "The flowers of this desert plant, which only blooms once a century where a wizard was slain, extend your life by many years. I happened to find a bush in full bloom a while back, and collected all the flowers to make into potions of longevity ...." :smallwink::smallwink:

[Orzel]

Arcanists don't die of old age. They die of everything else imaginable.

[Swordpriest]

The booby trap in the desert leads me to think that he's been dead for a long, long time. But that's just a hazy bit of personal speculation, based on his young appearance, the fact that it would be weird to leave it up after Soon is dead and the Azure City gate has fallen, and the fact that he hasn't made any effort to find out what's underway at the gate.

Either that, or he discovered the world within the rift and is now busy exploring it.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The booby trap in the desert leads me to think that he's been dead for a long, long time. But that's just a hazy bit of personal speculation, based on his young appearance…
The trap was set up shortly after the gates were constructed.


the fact that it would be weird to leave it up after Soon is dead
Given his hatred for Soon, I wouldn’t count on him knowing if/when Soon died. Even if he did know, see my next point.


…and the Azure City gate has fallen…
This he would know about, due to the same alarms that alerted Shojo to the destruction of Lirian and Dorukan’s gates.

Of course, if Soon’s gate is destroyed, it Girard could just as well figure Soon is dead and that there is no-one that is likely to trigger the booby trap. If that’s the case, why go through the bother of disarming it?


and the fact that he hasn't made any effort to find out what's underway at the gate.
Who says he hasn’t? Lots and lots of stuff happens off-panel.


Either that, or he discovered the world within the rift and is now busy exploring it.
No more evidence for that than there is for him not checking out the other gates.

[Deliverance]

Question: It is frequently thrown around that Girard is epic level, but do we actually know that? Was it revealed to be the case in a strip somewhere?

I tend to assume he is epic level on the grounds that adventurers who adventure together are usually close to the same level and we know that Dorukan was of epic level through his use of Cloister, but I just don't recall it ever being revealed that any of the other members of the order of scribble were epic level. Have I missed a reference in the comic or is everybody else also going by assumptions when reasoning "we know Girard was epic level, so..."?

From SoD, for example

I don't recall Lirian using anything known to be epic magic in the battle for her gate, though it is some time since I read it so I may be wrong. Was that weird anti-spellcaster infection epic magic? It was unusual homebrew set up to power jokes, certainly, but would it be out of the range of e.g. 9th level spells?

[SPoD]

Question: It is frequently thrown around that Girard is epic level, but do we actually know that? Was it revealed to be the case in a strip somewhere?

I tend to assume he is epic level on the grounds that adventurers who adventure together are usually close to the same level and we know that Durokan was of epic level through his use of Cloister, but I just don't recall it ever being revealed that any of the other members of the order of scribble were epic level. Have I missed a reference in the comic or is everybody else also going by assumptions when reasoning "we know Girard was epic level, so..."?

Pretty much that, plus Redcloak referring to Girard as being capable of some of the most powerful illusions ever devised. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) Since we know there have been casters whipping up non-illusions like familicide in OOTS-world, it stands to reason that the most powerful illusions must have also been epic spells.

[Kish]

I tend to assume he is epic level on the grounds that adventurers who adventure together are usually close to the same level and we know that Dorukan was of epic level through his use of Cloister, but I just don't recall it ever being revealed that any of the other members of the order of scribble were epic level.
Lirian must have been; the Gates required an epic-level divine and an epic-level arcane spellcaster to create.

[cho_j]

Actually Tarquin said no such thing. He gave a description of what Girard looked like when was younger and let Haley and Elan assume he could help them locate him as a means of getting them to stick around. What he actually knows is a complete unknown at this point.

Zevox

Emphasis added by me. I've actually been thinking that for a long time... I think it's funny how Tarquin happens to know how to describe Girard exactly as the Order of the Stick (who have only seen an illusion of him at the age he was during the Order of the Scribble's split) would.

I've been having a hard time coming up with how Tarquin could have seen that same illusion, or anything like that, so it's possible that if he HAS seen/met Girard recently, Girard looks fairly similar to how he did when he was younger. (Note: I'm not convinced T and G HAVE met in person, but... who knows at this point?)

Now, I don't know much about DnD, but if Girard had done something like taken a life-extending feat, would he look younger than he is? If so, this might be evidence of his extending his life by unnatural means (which here do not refer to mating with an elf :smallwink:).

[Zevox]

Now, I don't know much about DnD, but if Girard had done something like taken a life-extending feat, would he look younger than he is? If so, this might be evidence of his extending his life by unnatural means (which here do not refer to mating with an elf :smallwink:).
Would depend on when he used it and what the exact means was I suppose. Though honestly I'd wager the most likely explanation for him still looking like he used to, if he does, is simply that he'd use illusions for that, but I guess that's an option too.

Zevox

[cho_j]

Would depend on when he used it and what the exact means was I suppose. Though honestly I'd wager the most likely explanation for him still looking like he used to, if he does, is simply that he'd use illusions for that, but I guess that's an option too.

Zevox

Ah, thanks for clarifying, Zevox!

So, yeah, my attempt to add evidence for the whole "extended lifespan feat" theory may not be too strong... but I think the theory still makes more sense than his being dead.

[Raging Gene Ray]

So Girard is Paul McCartney from 1966?

[Nimrod's Son]

Girard is the walrus.

[Deliverance]

Lirian must have been; the Gates required an epic-level divine and an epic-level arcane spellcaster to create.
Did they? I'm not saying they didn't, I just don't remember when we were told they did. :smallsmile:

[Swordpriest]

I don't remember that in the comic, either. It must be in one of the books, which I don't have.

However, the Cloister spell is epic level, and it would be extraordinary for one member of the party to be epic without the rest being that way, also.

[Malek2991]

Well, Dorukan was incredibly old when Xykon fought him, but he looked like he had his power mostly intact. I suppose that's because he was a wizard, but I doubt that Girard would have most of his power intact.

And just to nitpick, I think that technically, they're still alive, but imprisoned within a gem.

Just a heads up, spellcasters in D&D do not loose power as they age. All of Girards power would indeed remain intact. I suspect since Girard is a known illusionist that regardless of any aging he will still look like he did in the illusion trap he set for Soon Kim. (Since Tarquin specificaly mentioned the red hair).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Did they? I'm not saying they didn't, I just don't remember when we were told they did. :smallsmile:
Start of Darkness
After accidentally destroying Lirian’s Gate, Redcloak tells Xykon they would both need to be epic level to build a new one.

[The Pilgrim]

There is one very important reason why Girand could be alive, while Soon was not.

It's not that Dorukan was alive six months prior to the comic.

It's not that Dorukan and Girard were spellcasters, thus had at their avast means to expand their lifespan that Soon had not.

It's not that Soon was already older than they both in the Order of the Scribble times.

It's called Aging Effects.

When reaching the Venerable Age Category (70 years) and due to the cumulative nature of Age modifiers, a character has a total of -6 STR, -6 DEX, -6 CON, +3 INT, +3 WIS and +3 CHA.

For spellcasters like Girard and Dorukan, that doesn't hampers them that much, since they don't depend from physical attributes, and the mental ones they depend of are enhanced.

For a combat class character like Soon, however, aging totally cripples his efficiency as a Gate Guardian.

It is, thus, very reasonable that, as aging took it's toll (and it took it on Soon much before Girard or Dorukan), Soon became more and more concerned about his ability to defend his Gate, while Dorukan or Giriard were not.

So, supernatural ways like the Ghost-Martyr thing, were not a particulary attractive option for Dorukan or Giriard. But it was for Soon. By dying, he would became more powerful that he was as an old man, thus more able to keep carrying on with his duty.

In conclusion, while Dorukan or Giriard had a will to stay alive (or, at least, had none to desire death), Soon, once aware of the Ghost-Martyr option, and with the Sapphire Guard stablished, had a very good one reason to die.

NOTE: If I'm not mistaken, by Core Rules a Paladin is not inmune to aging, not even an Epic one.

[Deliverance]

Start of Darkness
After accidentally destroying Lirian’s Gate, Redcloak tells Xykon they would both need to be epic level to build a new one.
Right you are. Thanks a lot!

It was annoying me that I didn't remember whether it was the case or not. :smallsmile:

[Water-Smurf]

I don't think Girard was the same age as Soon. I'd estimate that Girard and Dorukan were somewhere in their twenties while Soon was in his thirties, maybe even early forties. Admittedly, there's not much one can pull from the comic to prove it either way, but their mannerisms and how soon Soon died after the adventure was over makes it look that way.

[137beth]

The booby trap in the desert leads me to think that he's been dead for a long, long time. But that's just a hazy bit of personal speculation, based on his young appearance, the fact that it would be weird to leave it up after Soon is dead and the Azure City gate has fallen, and the fact that he hasn't made any effort to find out what's underway at the gate.

Either that, or he discovered the world within the rift and is now busy exploring it.
He doesn't necessarily know that Soon is dead, since he swore not to interfere with the other gates.

[Anterean]

There's nothing more unnatural than someone mating with an elf ... *shudder*

I found this so very hilarious I have to ask your permission to sig. it

[The MunchKING]

Epic characters can take a feat, "extended life span", that allows them to extend their age
Essentially it is possible for an epic level human to live for hundreds of years, as long as he keeps getting levels and using his feats to extend his age


IIRC there's an Epic spell that knocks about 10 years off your life. (Age to date, not lifespan) And IIRC it wasn't that hard (For an epic) to cast. If he had that he could cast it once a day until he hit the age he wanted anyway.

[snikrept]

The fact that he's an epic illusionist who values deception suggests that if the OOTs ever come face to face with him, we as readers may lack the tools to determine if he's dead, even at that point :D

The one big point for me is the hastiness of the message in the desert. The fact that Girard would plant it and then not update it (heck, even to strengthen the accompanying boobytrap) for decades seems fishy. One possible explanation is that he might have died shortly after casting it.

Then again, he's a master of illusion who values deception. Just giving up a whole pile of true plot exposition which includes raw emotion, and accompanying it with a ridiculously weak bomb trap, may seem strange not because Girard is deceased, but because it's another layer of lies to protect the gate. i.e. Girard wants the world to think he hates Soon with a fiery passion, is easily emotionally manipulated, and is incapable of constructing decent boobytraps :)

[KillItWithFire]

Just thought I'd point out that someone got their looksies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) after the message was triggered. Who could it be if not Girard?

[Yuki Akuma]

Just thought I'd point out that someone got their looksies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) after the message was triggered. Who could it be if not Girard?

Girard's magic colour is purple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), so no, that could not have been Girard scrying.

[KillItWithFire]

Girard's magic colour is purple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), so no, that could not have been Girard scrying.

Wow, Never even thought of that... a wizard did it
Don't think we've met any green magic users yet. Probably one of Girards underlings if I had to guess. My second guess would be one of the magic users in Tarquin's group (I think Miron is out for the same reason as Girard though have to double check.)

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually it's possible that if you have two spellcasting classes your magic colours for each can be different (see: Tsukiko the Mystic Theurge), but Rangers don't get Scrying and I doubt Girard is so schizophrenic that he'd take another spellcasting class on top of Ranger and whatever it is that makes him a master illusionist (Wizard? Sorcerer?).

[KillItWithFire]

Actually it's possible that if you have two spellcasting classes your magic colours for each can be different (see: Tsukiko the Mystic Theurge), but Rangers don't get Scrying and I doubt Girard is so schizophrenic that he'd take another spellcasting class on top of Ranger and whatever it is that makes him a master illusionist (Wizard? Sorcerer?).

:smallconfused: I thought she always had that off-blue for all her spells.

[Yuki Akuma]

I can't be bothered to go back and check, so you're probably right. :smalltongue:

[Emo Samurai]

When the booby trap triggered, I thought it was weird that they'd rely on such a simple heuristic to tell whether or not the person talking was Soon. First of all, all kinds of people could be using those keywords, bad and good. Second of all, there are about a million essentially foolproof magical ways to detect a person's identity in D&D. The only time a keyword heuristic would be useful is if you were trying to detect a specific type of person, especially since that's the exact IRL experience with keyword tagging.

[Yuki Akuma]

Remember: Girard hates Soon and is paranoid.

Plus, he wanted to be able to get anyone working for Soon, not just the Paladin himself. Checking for identity wouldn't work for that purpose.

[Emo Samurai]

True, but detect "paladin-ness" is probably a fairly trivial spell.

Also, yeah, Girard's probably dead, I mean he's probably more than capable of scrying himself. Then again, maybe he has some kind of Teevo.

[Zevox]

True, but detect "paladin-ness" is probably a fairly trivial spell.
Considering it doesn't exist, I'd say it's by no means trivial.

Zevox

[Emo Samurai]

If they made it, it'd be level 3, tops.

[Yuki Akuma]

True, but detect "paladin-ness" is probably a fairly trivial spell.

Also, yeah, Girard's probably dead, I mean he's probably more than capable of scrying himself. Then again, maybe he has some kind of Teevo.

There is absolutely no way to detect someone's class. At all.

[Darth Hunterix]

Don't think we've met any green magic users yet.

Yes, we did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)

[Emo Samurai]

There is absolutely no way to detect someone's class. At all.

They can probably detect divine magic, and they can probably detect blessedness and crap. So it's probably trivial


Yes, we did.

ooooooh

[Yuki Akuma]

They can probably detect divine magic, and they can probably detect blessedness and crap. So it's probably trivial.

Nope.

They can detect magic, and they can detect spell schools, but there is absolutely no way to detect "Divine magic", or differentiate it from "Arcane magic". Or "Incarnum", "Psionics", "Shadow magic", "Binding"...

(Well actually there is a "Detect Incarnum" spell, but no other spell can tell the difference.)

[hamishspence]

Yes, we did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)

Mustn't forget a certain dark elven magic-user:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html

[monomer]

Mustn't forget a certain dark elven magic-user:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html

There's also this guy here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html).

He even has a similar tat to Girard's. Coincidence? Yeah, probably.

[KillItWithFire]

Yes, we did. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)

Can't be the Oracle, he's an expert, no spell casting class. His gift is directly god-given. Also if he could look into the future why would he need to scry?

[Darth Hunterix]

Mustn't forget a certain dark elven magic-user:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html

True. But Zz'dtri's color is pure #3EB677, while Oracle's color is combined #38B15A and #81BB83, and "Mysterious Scry" is combined #50B175 and #6EA273.

So Oracle's colors match a little better. But still, Zz'dtri is a good candidate as well.

EDIT:

Can't be the Oracle, he's an expert, no spell casting class. His gift is directly god-given. Also if he could look into the future why would he need to scry?
We don't know how that "looking" looks. Also, we only have his word, that he isn't some sort of spellcaster. And I don't trust him, because he had no problem with dismissing Roy with his wand, and as far as I'm concerned, only rouges and spellcasters can perform such action, but I may be wrong.

[Yuki Akuma]

You're wrong. Anyone with ranks in User Magic Device can do so.

He's an Expert. He can have Use Magic Device as a class skill, and as the Oracle of Tiamat likely has good Charisma.

[megabyter5]

If Zz'dtri is back, we might finally get some insight into why Nale recruited an ostensibly CG counterpart for Vaarsuvius. I mean, come on:

Elan: CG <-> Nale: LE
Roy: LG <-> Thog: CE
Durkon: LG <-> Therkla: CE
Belkar: CE <-> Yikyik: No evidence, but Yokyok appeared to be LG
Haley: CG <-> Sabine: CE, with confusion about possibly being LE
Vaarsuvius: TN <-> Zz'dtri: CG... Why?

[Grey Watcher]

Actually it's possible that if you have two spellcasting classes your magic colours for each can be different (see: Tsukiko the Mystic Theurge), but Rangers don't get Scrying and I doubt Girard is so schizophrenic that he'd take another spellcasting class on top of Ranger and whatever it is that makes him a master illusionist (Wizard? Sorcerer?).

You are correct about Tsukiko. She does use different colors for her arcane and divine magic. The penultimate panel of #446 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) shows her using unspecified spells. Give me a few more minutes to research it, and I'm sure I can find a comic that shows which is which. (I wanna say the blue is divine, but I dunno where that's coming from.)

UPDATE: Yep, divine is blue, arcane is purple for Tsukiko. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) she is using Shout, from the Bard and Sor/Wiz spell lists and her hands are glowing purple.

[Zevox]

If Zz'dtri is back, we might finally get some insight into why Nale recruited an ostensibly CG counterpart for Vaarsuvius. I mean, come on:

Elan: CG <-> Nale: LE
Roy: LG <-> Thog: CE
Durkon: LG <-> Therkla: CE
Belkar: CE <-> Yikyik: No evidence, but Yokyok appeared to be LG
Haley: CG <-> Sabine: CE, with confusion about possibly being LE
Vaarsuvius: TN <-> Zz'dtri: CG... Why?
...I shouldn't have to point this out, but Zz'dtri was not CG. He was evil of one sort or another. The CG thing was part of their deception and a joke about Drizzt and the Drow in D&D.

Zevox

[Grey Watcher]

...I shouldn't have to point this out, but Zz'dtri was not CG. He was evil of one sort or another. The CG thing was part of their deception and a joke about Drizzt and the Drow in D&D.

Zevox

Yeah, and that was pre-attempted fratricide, so Nale was trying to keep up the pretense that he and his group were Good (or at least Good-leaning Neutral).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

:smallconfused: I thought she always had that off-blue for all her spells.


I can't be bothered to go back and check, so you're probably right. :smalltongue:

Here: At Least it Wasn’t the Fourth Wall Again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html).

She casts light blue for divine spells (third panel), and a dark purple for arcane spells (4th, 6th, 8th, and 12th panels). Each color matches a different eye. Compare each color side-by-side in the ninth panel of #516 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html)

[Mordaenor]

Just thought I'd point out that someone got their looksies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) after the message was triggered. Who could it be if not Girard?

Tarquin. Or one of his lackeys. I'm not unconvinced that Tarquin knows more about the Gates, or at least Girard's Gate, than he has let on. In fact, he's had no reason to mention it, since Elan hasn't mentioned it to him.

[Keinnicht]

To be fair, Arwen was three-quarters elven.

Now I want to make statistics for a three-quarter elf.

[KillItWithFire]

Here: At Least it Wasn’t the Fourth Wall Again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html).

She casts light blue for divine spells (third panel), and a dark purple for arcane spells (4th, 6th, 8th, and 12th panels). Each color matches a different eye. Compare each color side-by-side in the ninth panel of #516 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html)

Oh wow, mystic theurge, two magics, two eye colors, two auras. That's clever.

[faustin]

Yes, she does both ways :smallbiggrin:
(I know it´s an old joke, but it´s still good)

[Kish]

Tarquin. Or one of his lackeys. I'm not unconvinced that Tarquin knows more about the Gates, or at least Girard's Gate, than he has let on. In fact, he's had no reason to mention it, since Elan hasn't mentioned it to him.
"Not unconvinced"?

If you mean "convinced," is there a reason for the 1984-ish extraneous syllable and word? (Elan and Haley are not ungood!)

If you don't, uh...well, it's what you said, so please rephrase. :smalltongue:

[loser0ll]

There is absolutely no way to detect someone's class. At all.
I'm putting this in a spoiler, because it's very long.
Technically, this is not strictly true. Ironically, if you stick to Core classes, ONLY the Paladin could be targeted by such a spell with high accuracy.

It's actually simple. Combine Detect Law with Detect Good.
If you get a negative on one or the other, it's not a Paladin.
If you get a positive on both, and the Good is stronger than the Lawful, it's a Paladin. (Again, sticking to Core PCs)

If it was a LG character, it would show up as the same strength on both because both would use the same standard - the "Evil Character" chart.

If it was a Lawful Good Cleric, it would have a strong Aura of Good -and- Law. So while abnormally strong, they would still match.

If it was a Paladin, it would show up as Lawful and Good, but the Good would be much stronger since Paladins have an Aura of Good but not Law. (Which should really show you which aspect Paladins are meant to focus on...)

The exceptions are Paladins of level 1, and Paladins with 51 HD of higher. You could also argue that Outsider Paladins would have a way around this, since they would come across as the same strength on both scales. But given the makeup of the Sapphire Guard and the rarity of this sort of combination, we can safely assume that the vast majority of the time, if a spell says an individual has a stronger aura of Good and a weaker aura of Law, but both exist, it's a Paladin.

It'd certainly be possible to come up with such a spell. While not foolproof, the Sapphire Guard would be mostly covered. Except Paladins of level 1, or 51+ of course.

So while it wouldn't work on all Paladins, it would tell you what class the person was if they didn't have a way around it. Although it could be fooled with proper magic items/spells in place - but since you can differentiate between auras and their respective levels, that becomes a moot point. Especially since you could just design the spell to target a single creature, instead of the auras of any spells in place or items it may be carrying. It'd be a simple combination of math, common sense, and already existing spells. Since the casters are aware of the concepts of the aura power levels, it wouldn't even require metagaming - just experience. "The only times I have ever gotten this result while focusing on a living, non-divine being specifically, it was in dealing with a Paladin. It makes sense, given that Paladins are bound by a code that requires both of these, but have blessings that cause them to appear as holy servants. Clearly, Paladins with any real experience or power register as this. I can design a spell that detects this, and so know that the human I am detecting is a Paladin."

Thus you invent the spell "Detect experienced Paladins." It
has a few ways you can avoid being detected - but the same goes with any spell. The point is, you have invented a simple spell that detects someone based on exclusive class abilities that can be measured.

This could even be set up as an Anti-Paladin trap. Create a some sort of spell that goes off under the contingency that another spell successfully detects the appropriate alignment aura combination.

[Red XIV]

When you consider that Giriard is epic, epic level people have a tendency to live beyon what is normally expected of their race. If you read SoD both Lirian and Dorukon were alive within 10 years or so of this comics timeframe.
Lirian's a bad example, being an elf. She's not only still be alive if not for her battle with Xykon, she'd probably still be young.


Question: It is frequently thrown around that Girard is epic level, but do we actually know that? Was it revealed to be the case in a strip somewhere?

I tend to assume he is epic level on the grounds that adventurers who adventure together are usually close to the same level and we know that Dorukan was of epic level through his use of Cloister, but I just don't recall it ever being revealed that any of the other members of the order of scribble were epic level. Have I missed a reference in the comic or is everybody else also going by assumptions when reasoning "we know Girard was epic level, so..."?

From SoD, for example

I don't recall Lirian using anything known to be epic magic in the battle for her gate, though it is some time since I read it so I may be wrong. Was that weird anti-spellcaster infection epic magic? It was unusual homebrew set up to power jokes, certainly, but would it be out of the range of e.g. 9th level spells?

Well, it's quite safe to say that Soon was epic level, given how he was trouncing Xykon, who's at least level 27.

[TriForce]

I'm putting this in a spoiler, because it's very long.
Technically, this is not strictly true. Ironically, if you stick to Core classes, ONLY the Paladin could be targeted by such a spell with high accuracy.

It's actually simple. Combine Detect Law with Detect Good.
If you get a negative on one or the other, it's not a Paladin.
If you get a positive on both, and the Good is stronger than the Lawful, it's a Paladin. (Again, sticking to Core PCs)

If it was a LG character, it would show up as the same strength on both because both would use the same standard - the "Evil Character" chart.

If it was a Lawful Good Cleric, it would have a strong Aura of Good -and- Law. So while abnormally strong, they would still match.

If it was a Paladin, it would show up as Lawful and Good, but the Good would be much stronger since Paladins have an Aura of Good but not Law. (Which should really show you which aspect Paladins are meant to focus on...)

The exceptions are Paladins of level 1, and Paladins with 51 HD of higher. You could also argue that Outsider Paladins would have a way around this, since they would come across as the same strength on both scales. But given the makeup of the Sapphire Guard and the rarity of this sort of combination, we can safely assume that the vast majority of the time, if a spell says an individual has a stronger aura of Good and a weaker aura of Law, but both exist, it's a Paladin.

It'd certainly be possible to come up with such a spell. While not foolproof, the Sapphire Guard would be mostly covered. Except Paladins of level 1, or 51+ of course.

So while it wouldn't work on all Paladins, it would tell you what class the person was if they didn't have a way around it. Although it could be fooled with proper magic items/spells in place - but since you can differentiate between auras and their respective levels, that becomes a moot point. Especially since you could just design the spell to target a single creature, instead of the auras of any spells in place or items it may be carrying. It'd be a simple combination of math, common sense, and already existing spells. Since the casters are aware of the concepts of the aura power levels, it wouldn't even require metagaming - just experience. "The only times I have ever gotten this result while focusing on a living, non-divine being specifically, it was in dealing with a Paladin. It makes sense, given that Paladins are bound by a code that requires both of these, but have blessings that cause them to appear as holy servants. Clearly, Paladins with any real experience or power register as this. I can design a spell that detects this, and so know that the human I am detecting is a Paladin."

Thus you invent the spell "Detect experienced Paladins." It
has a few ways you can avoid being detected - but the same goes with any spell. The point is, you have invented a simple spell that detects someone based on exclusive class abilities that can be measured.

This could even be set up as an Anti-Paladin trap. Create a some sort of spell that goes off under the contingency that another spell successfully detects the appropriate alignment aura combination.
not really, since clerics dont radiate law (or chaos), just good or evil where applyable. also, paladins dont radiate law either. even if they did, both the law and good detection would be at the same strength since it is dependant on the characters lvl. so basically, its not possible to see the difference between a cleric and a paladin, and with just detect good and detect law, the spell would probably not even see a difference between any lawful good char, youd need a specific spell to specifically detect the aura of good a paladin and good cleric has.

[loser0ll]

The spell does detect differences in the power level of the source - read Detect Evil. It has an entire chart for the power levels of different sources, with one entry being "Clerics of an [Evil/Good/Lawful/Chaotic] Diety". Paladins register as strongly as Clerics (far stronger than most Lawful Good characters) for Good, but not for Law. So it -would- in fact have a much stronger Good than Lawful Aura.

As for Clerics...
"A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity’s alignment (see the detect evil spell for details). Clerics who don’t worship a specific deity but choose the Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law domain have a similarly powerful aura of the corresponding alignment."


However, I will admit that this does mean a Lawful Good Cleric of a Neutral Good Deity would show up exactly the same as a Paladin. So, it would only detect that it was -most likely- a Paladin, with a small chance that they could be a Cleric instead.

[Trixie]

And even then we either have to assume that Rich ignored the normal rules on dying of old age in D&D

He used them at least three times already, so it's extremely unlikely.


Well, it's quite safe to say that Soon was epic level, given how he was trouncing Xykon, who's at least level 27.

Trouncing? Xykon was using magic missile, Soon used smite evil, was in range for full attacks, and was immune to most of his spells. Yet, Xykon almost won.

Roy or Belkar would do just as well if they had these advantages here, Soon did very poorly for supposedly epic character.

[loser0ll]

As a random side note, I did the math on something and came up with the following results.

If he is an Epic Spellcaster, creating a Ritual that takes 100 days, 10 minutes and 6 seconds to cast would extend his lifespan by 101 years. It would cost no time, exp or gold to develop.

Adding in Backlash damage, exp burn and/or additional casters, and you increase the effects several times over. And since this extends your current age category, he would appear to age slowly through the entire process - so he would look only slightly older after all this time.

[jevans90]

Found another green caster:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0510.html

Which reminded me of another:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html

Obviously, with Eugene being dead, and Julia low-level, I doubt either will get involved (but who knows!?)

Still think Zz'ditri is the most likely returning character, but am expecting an as-yet-unseen scryer in the employ of Girard/Sereni, or Tarquin.

I wouldn't be surprised if Girard is dead, part of me feels that none of the Order of the Scribble will have survived to play a (living) role in (the non-flashbacks of) this comic. But we'll never know. Until we do.

[martianmister]

Found another green caster:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0510.html


Weird. He had a different color in ghost for:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html

[Nimrod's Son]

Yep, divine is blue, arcane is purple for Tsukiko. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) she is using Shout, from the Bard and Sor/Wiz spell lists and her hands are glowing purple.


She casts light blue for divine spells (third panel), and a dark purple for arcane spells (4th, 6th, 8th, and 12th panels).
Tsukiko's darker eye isn't purple; it's exactly the same shade of blue as Roy's armour, or Hinjo's hair.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Carry on.

[faustin]

Obviously, with Eugene being dead, and Julia low-level, I dou
bt either will get involved (but who knows!?)

In a hypothetical case, could Eugene possess Julia´s body (outside the magical protected school, of course), at least using a arcane/divine ritual with Roy´s ancestral sword?

On the other hand, I see Julia too much selfish for allow that by her own will (unless she hasn´t other choice, like being forced to furfill the blood oath or be condemned to "wander in the fluffy clouds" like his father for eternity). Not to mention, Roy, who probably would melt himself the sword in hot lava than see Eugene in Julia´s body.:smalleek:

[Deliverance]

If he is an Epic Spellcaster, creating a Ritual that takes 100 days, 10 minutes and 6 seconds to cast would extend his lifespan by 101 years. It would cost no time, exp or gold to develop.

...but it would require a person capable of memorizing 100 days, 10 minutes, and 6 seconds worth of rituals in detail, who was able to stay concentrated for the same period of time while utterly deprived of food, sleep, and performing other bodily functions, to actually cast the spell. :smallbiggrin:

Whatever came out of that process might very well have extended its lifespan by 101 years, but its mental faculties would no longer be recognizably human. :smallwink:

[Trixie]

Ring of Sustenance for food, Modify Memory then flipping through book with ritual for ritual, Unseen Servant for any... bodily problems, something casting Lesser Restoration every time you become exhausted due to the lack of sleep. All low level spells, easily obtainable for Epic character.

Or just polymorph yourself into Warfoged and read the ritual out of prepared notes.

[snikrept]

Girard's magic colour is purple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), so no, that could not have been Girard scrying.

Just for the sake of having all the options on the table, we don't know that Girard was the one who cast that heuristic hologram. All we know was that the hologram recorded him speaking. He even refers to it as "the heuristic magic" not "my heuristic magic" which in retrospect seems odd for a guy with a big ego. It was illusion school, but it still may have been one of his mates or underlings, with him speaking into the magical equivalent of a microphone. May also explain why the attached bomb-trap was so weak.

Curiously, in the crayon drawing flashback we never see him spellcasting, he's always just menacing someone with blades. One wonders whether "epic illusionist" doesn't describe him well and actually he was a mostly melee build.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Curiously, in the crayon drawing flashback we never see him spellcasting…
We don’t? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

Also note that his magic here is the same magenta used for his cape. A cape which becomes straight purple in non-scribble renderings.


One wonders whether "epic illusionist" doesn't describe him well and actually he was a mostly melee build.
Soon—a paladin all wrapped up in honor—seemed to feel that the illusionist part of Girard’s build was important enough to stress Girard being one when passing down the “Secret Lore” about the gates.

And don’t forget that there are plenty of gish builds that don’t overly-inhibit ones ability to reach epic spellcasting while still giving a decent BAB.

[Yuki Akuma]

Curiously, in the crayon drawing flashback we never see him spellcasting

Seventh freaking panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html).

[Moriarty]

You are correct about Tsukiko. She does use different colors for her arcane and divine magic. The penultimate panel of #446 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) shows her using unspecified spells. Give me a few more minutes to research it, and I'm sure I can find a comic that shows which is which. (I wanna say the blue is divine, but I dunno where that's coming from.)

UPDATE: Yep, divine is blue, arcane is purple for Tsukiko. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) she is using Shout, from the Bard and Sor/Wiz spell lists and her hands are glowing purple.


sooo... you somehow managed to overlook the bigger and more obvious display of divine magic that's only ONE PANEL ABOVE the one you use to show she has two magic colors?

[Forlong]

Soon was clearly the oldest of those adventurers, which is why he died so soon (hee hee) after their quest was complete.

[zimmerwald1915]

Weird. He had a different color in ghost for:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html
That's to show his incorporeality, not to show his magic. Eugene's magic is green, as are his robes, a pattern that is apparently quite common in OOTSland.

[Stone Heart]

Not to mention he is a Greenhilt.

I don't think hes dead, and Soon came off as being the oldest human member of the party in my opinion, which woul explain his aging and dying earlier.

[snikrept]

We don’t? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

Also note that his magic here is the same magenta used for his cape. A cape which becomes straight purple in non-scribble renderings.



Good catch!

As far as magenta mapping to several different colors: Could be the crayons have a more limited number of colors I suppose. Or that the heuristic hologram distorts the colors of his outfit a bit. Otherwise, still not clear that it's the same magic glow on the hologram.

EDIT
That's to show his incorporeality, not to show his magic. Eugene's magic is green, as are his robes, a pattern that is apparently quite common in OOTSland.

This is also interesting - does this mean that Eugene is considered corporeal when he's on his 'home plane' of Mount Celestia?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0500.html

[Shhalahr Windrider]

As far as magenta mapping to several different colors: Could be the crayons have a more limited number of colors I suppose. Or that the heuristic hologram distorts the colors of his outfit a bit. Otherwise, still not clear that it's the same magic glow on the hologram.
Check out the poster. (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/GoodGuysPoster.shtml#) Even considering the reduced brightness, I don’t think that shade of purple is a match for the magenta. It’s the crayons that were using a distorted palette.


This is also interesting - does this mean that Eugene is considered corporeal when he's on his 'home plane' of Mount Celestia?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0500.html
Huh? His magic is green right there.

[Morgan Wick]

Of course Girard is dead! Why, on the back cover of Gen. Tarquin's Bleeding Hearts Club Band you can clearly see that he's facing backwards while the other Scribblers are facing forwards! :smalltongue: (Yes, I know I'm ninja'd, but I still couldn't resist)


People keep assuming Girard is still alive, but if you do some very simple math, you (at least I) realize that that's highly illogical.

Most people, I suspect, would have agreed with you until the Order started talking about warning Girard about Xykon, implying he was still alive. At that point people started coming up with ways for Girard to still be alive, because surely if it occured to the forumites it should have also occured to the OOTSers, and it's not like the OOTSers have ever failed their Sense Motive before. </sarcasm> (Also, because it seemed dramatically inappropriate to have as a twist something the forum would have normally expected to be the thing twisted from.)


Well, actually she is a human actress who is only disguised as an elf, so she has what's the best from both races. Knowing that she is not a valid argument :smallwink:

Now, think of that eyes, looking at you in the middle of the...
http://www.sweden.se/upload/Sweden_se/english/articles/SI/2007/Girls_get_gaming/female_blood_elf.jpg
...night.

...I'd hit that...



Durkon: LG <-> Therkla: CE

Therkla was never a Linear Guild member. You're probably thinking of Hilgya, who was probably chaotic, served a god typically portrayed as evil, but seemed a nice enough girl to Durkon.

[ThePhantasm]

I know this is weird, but I read this thread title and my first thought was... Nietzsche!? :smallconfused: Haha. :smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

Tsukiko's darker eye isn't purple; it's exactly the same shade of blue as Roy's armour, or Hinjo's hair.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Carry on.

That's blue?

You people who aren't colorblind are weird.

[Themrys]

Considering Giriad specialized in illusion I imagine he still looks similar to the way he did when he was younger. If Tarquin met Giriad when he was younger, I'm left wondering how much he knows about the gates and the snarl. (Though I guess we'll find out) If Giriad is using illusions to keep himself looking sexy and Tarquin met him recently I find it much more credible that Tarquin woul be able to reconize the name.

Wait...what exactly did they tell Tarquin? And what did he tell them?
Maybe he just found a trap in the desert, and thus has exactly the same information they have?

Also, Girard may be a prisoner who is treated badly, which would provide Tarquin with a reason not to reveal his knowledge before the group leaves anyway.

[KillItWithFire]

Wait...what exactly did they tell Tarquin? And what did he tell them?
Maybe he just found a trap in the desert, and thus has exactly the same information they have?

Also, Girard may be a prisoner who is treated badly, which would provide Tarquin with a reason not to reveal his knowledge before the group leaves anyway.

They mentioned the name Girard and Tarquin was able to accurately describe Girards physical features, proving he at least can match the name to the figure. He also implied that he knows Girard or had seen him recently but refused to let anymore be known until after the celebration.

[aart lover]

people like that tend to have people rez them or something whenever they die. natural causes or otherwise.

[KillItWithFire]

people like that tend to have people rez them or something whenever they die. natural causes or otherwise.

Can't be rezzed from natural causes, you die as soon as you're rezzed. Like I said way back in the beginning of the thread though, one way or the other epic characters tend to live longer than they should.

[calar]

Girard is a wizard, which gives him an extended lifespan in Dnd rules, despite his race.

[TimelordSimone]

Girard is a wizard, which gives him an extended lifespan in Dnd rules, despite his race.

Fairly sure we don't -know- what class he is.
(Also fairly sure just being a wizard doesn't make you live longer.)

[Zevox]

Girard is a wizard, which gives him an extended lifespan in Dnd rules, despite his race.
Er, no, D&D rules do not give any automatic extended lifespan to wizards. Epic-level wizards have a strong tendency to develop ways to extend their own lifespans, but that's another matter.

Zevox

[faustin]

Epic necromancy sure has rules for it: stealing lifespawn from blood sacrifices, possesing young people bodies permanently, etc... or the most popular choice of becoming a lich :xykon:
But, can an illusionist trick even Death? That´s the question :smallwink:

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Er, no, D&D rules do not give any automatic extended lifespan to wizards. Epic-level wizards have a strong tendency to develop ways to extend their own lifespans, but that's another matter.
Epic characters can simply take Extended Lifespan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan). And you don’t have to be a spellcaster to take it.

[MReav]

If Zz'dtri is back, we might finally get some insight into why Nale recruited an ostensibly CG counterpart for Vaarsuvius. I mean, come on:
Belkar: CE <-> Yikyik: No evidence, but Yokyok appeared to be LG

According to Rich in the Dungeon Crawling Fools book Yik-Yik was pretty much what Belkar would be were he a kobold


Trouncing? Xykon was using magic missile, Soon used smite evil, was in range for full attacks, and was immune to most of his spells. Yet, Xykon almost won.

Xykon almost got his ass spanked, but Soon had a bunch of minions supporting him. Xykon was healed by Redcloak in the battle though, so I think in a one on one, Soon would have won, if only because Xykon was such a bad tactician.